Lord Swaminaryan instructs his followers to worship Krishna...

[Guest guest]

"Thats your answer. Therfore Golok is Akshardham. Which shri Krishna himself had talked of. For all teh people who ask where 'Akshardham' is mentioned here is your answer. "

 

Aksar means imperishable when Aksar is mentioned it means the imperishable abode where laxmi and radha reside.

 

You could easily create so many names of vaikuntha and goloka by attaching the quality of the spritual world with "dhama" and it doesnt make it any different just because the name is different. If swaminarayan has his own abode where is that abode mentioned as this aksar dhama refers to golok where radha krishna reside? Ayodya puri dhama is also in vaikuntha where rama resides etc.

 

[gHari]

 

In His biography, the Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya Lila 9.140-162, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu explains our very conversations on this thread:<blockquote>SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu had understood this misconception of VeGkaTa BhaTTa's, and to correct it the Lord talked so much in a joking way.

 

The Lord then continued, "My dear VeGkaTa BhaTTa, please do not continue doubting. Lord KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and this is the conclusion of the Vedic literatures.

 

"Lord NArAyaNa, the opulent form of KRSNa, attracts the minds of the goddess of fortune and her followers.

 

"‘All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruSa-avatAras. But KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. In every age He protects the world through His different features when the world is disturbed by the enemies of Indra.'

 

"Because KRSNa has four extraordinary qualities not possessed by Lord NArAyaNa, the goddess of fortune, LakSmI, always desires His company.<blockquote>COMMENTARY

Lord NArAyaNa has sixty transcendental qualities. Over and above these, KRSNa has four extraordinary transcendental qualities absent in Lord NArAyaNa. These four qualities are (1) His wonderful pastimes, which are compared to an ocean, (2) His association in the circle of the supreme devotees in conjugal love (the gopIs), (3) His playing on the flute, whose vibration attracts the three worlds, and (4) His extraordinary beauty, which surpasses the beauty of the three worlds. Lord KRSNa's beauty is unequaled and unsurpassed.</blockquote>

"You have recited the zloka beginning with ‘siddhAntatas tv abhede 'pi.' That very verse is evidence that KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

"‘According to transcendental realization, there is no difference between the forms of KRSNa and NArAyaNa. Yet in KRSNa there is a special transcendental attraction due to the conjugal mellow, and consequently He surpasses NArAyaNa. This is the conclusion of transcendental mellows.'

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, KRSNa, attracts the mind of the goddess of fortune, but Lord NArAyaNa cannot attract the minds of the gopIs. This proves the superexcellence of KRSNa.

 

"To say nothing of Lord NArAyaNa personally, Lord KRSNa Himself appeared as NArAyaNa just to play a joke on the gopIs.

 

"Although KRSNa assumed the four-armed form of NArAyaNa, He could not attract the serious attention of the gopIs in ecstatic love.

 

"‘Once Lord SrI KRSNa playfully manifested Himself as NArAyaNa, with four victorious hands and a very beautiful form. When the gopIs saw this exalted form, however, their ecstatic feelings were crippled. A learned scholar, therefore, cannot understand the gopIs' ecstatic feelings, which are firmly fixed upon the original form of Lord KRSNa as the son of Nanda MahArAja. The wonderful feelings of the gopIs in ecstatic parama-rasa with KRSNa constitute the greatest mystery in spiritual life.'"

 

In this way Lord SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu deflated the pride of VeGkaTa BhaTTa, but just to make him happy again, He spoke as follows.

 

The Lord pacified VeGkaTa BhaTTa by saying, "Actually whatever I have said is by way of jest. Now you can hear from Me the conclusion of the zAstras, in which every VaiSNava devotee has firm faith.

 

"There is no difference between Lord KRSNa and Lord NArAyaNa, for They are of the same form. Similarly, there is no difference between the gopIs and the goddess of fortune, for they also are of the same form.

 

"The goddess of fortune enjoys the association of KRSNa through the gopIs. One should not differentiate between the forms of the Lord, for such a conception is offensive.

 

"There is no difference between the transcendental forms of the Lord. Different forms are manifested due to different attachments of different devotees. Actually the Lord is one, but He appears in different forms just to satisfy His devotees.

 

"‘When the jewel known as vaidUrya touches various other materials, it appears to be separated into different colors, and consequently its forms also appear different. Similarly, according to the meditational ecstasy of the devotee, the Lord, who is known as Acyuta ["the infallible one"], appears in different forms, although He is essentially one.'"

 

VeGkaTa BhaTTa then said, "I am an ordinary fallen living entity, but You are KRSNa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.

 

"The transcendental pastimes of the Lord are unfathomable, and I do not know anything about them. Whatever You say I accept as the truth.

 

"I have been engaged in the service of LakSmI-NArAyaNa, and it is due to Their mercy that I have been able to see Your lotus feet.

 

"Out of Your causeless mercy You have told me of the glories of Lord KRSNa. No one can reach the end of the opulence, qualities and forms of the Lord.

 

"I can now understand that devotional service unto Lord KRSNa is the supreme form of worship. Out of Your causeless mercy You have made my life successful simply by explaining the facts."

 

After saying this, VeGkaTa BhaTTa fell down before the lotus feet of the Lord, and the Lord, out of His causeless mercy, embraced him.</blockquote>

 

 

One candle lights all other candles. They are all wax and all equally luminous, yet one candle is the original lighter. For this reason, Swami Narayana and Sri Caitanya recommended the absolute worship of Sri Krsna, Govinda, Bhagavan Svayam, Radha-Syamasundara as the ultimate repose of the world's love. This analogy is given in the Brahma-Samhita verse 5.46:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><font color="RED">

dIpArcir eva hi dazAntaram abhyupetya

dIpAyate vivRta-hetu-samAna-dharmA

yas tAdRg eva hi ca viSNutayA vibhAti

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</CENTER>

dIpa-arciH--the flame of a lamp; eva--as; hi--certainly; dazA-antaram--another lamp; abhyupetya--expanding; dIpAyate--illuminates; vivRta-hetu--with its expanded cause; samAna-dharmA--equally powerful; yaH--who; tAdRk--similarly; eva--indeed; hi--certainly; ca--also; viSNutayA--by His expansion as Lord ViSNu; vibhAti--illuminates; govindam--Govinda; Adi-puruSam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajAmi--worship.

</font>

The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.

 

PURPORT

The presiding Deities of Hari-dhAma, viz., Hari, NArAyaNa, ViSNu, etc., the subjective portions of KRSNa, are being described. The majestic manifestation of KRSNa is NArAyaNa, Lord of VaikuNTha, whose subjective portion is KAraNodakazAyI ViSNu, the prime cause, whose portion is GarbhodakazAyI. KSIrodakazAyI is again the subjective portion of GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu. The word "ViSNu" indicates all-pervading, omnipresent and omniscient personality. In this zloka the activities of the subjective portions of the Divinity are enunciated by the specification of the nature of KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu. The personality of ViSNu, the embodied form of the manifestive quality (sattva-guNa) is quite distinct from that of Sambhu who is adulterated with mundane qualities.

 

ViSNu's subjective personality is on a level with that of Govinda. Both consist of the unadulterated substantive principle. ViSNu in the form of the manifest causal principle is identical with Govinda as regards quality. The manifestive quality (sattva-guNa) that is found to exist in the triple mundane quality, is an adulterated entity. being alloyed with the qualities of mundane activity and inertia. BrahmA is the dislocated portion of the Divinity. manifested in the principle of mundane action, endowed with the functional nature of His subjective portion; and Sambhu is the dislocated portion of the Divinity manifested in the principle of mundane inertia possessing similarly the functional nature of His subjective portion.

 

The reason for their being dislocated portions is that the two principles of mundane action and inertia being altogether wanting in the spiritual essence any entities, that are manifested in them, are located at a great distance from the Divinity Himself or His facsimiles. Although the mundane manifestive quality is of the adulterated kind, ViSNu, the manifestation of the Divinity in the mundane manifestive quality, makes His appearance in the unadulterated manifestive principle which is a constituent of the mundane manifestive quality. Hence ViSNu is the full subjective portion and belongs to the category of the superior Izvaras. He is the Lord of the deluding potency and not alloyed with her. ViSNu is the agent of Govinda's own subjective nature in the form of the prime cause.

 

All the majestic attributes of Govinda, aggregating sixty in number, are fully present in His majestic manifestation, NArAyaNa. BrahmA and Siva are entities adulterated with mundane qualities. Though ViSNu is also divine appearance in mundane quality (guNa-avatAra), still He is not adulterated. The appearance of NArAyaNa in the form of MahA-ViSNu, the appearance of MahA-ViSNu in the form of GarbhodakazAyI and the appearance of ViSNu in the form of KSIrodakazAyI, are examples of the ubiquitous function of the Divinity. ViSNu is Godhead Himself, and the two other guNa-avatAras and all the other gods are entities possessing authority in subordination to Him. From the subjective majestic manifestation of the supreme self-luminous Govinda emanate KAraNodakazAyI, GarbhodakazAyI, KSIrodakazAyI and all other derivative subjective divine descents (avatAras) such as RAma, etc., analogous to communicated light appearing in different candles, shining by the operation of the spiritual potency of Govinda.

</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

On the orginal Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan does worship Lord Krishna.. However, he has also stated that you should not change your dharum..

 

You cannot become a god without worshipping your older gods. However, I think most peeps in UK will not get to heaven as it is to hard..

 

What you say\?

[Guest guest]

-----------------------

On the orginal Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan does worship Lord Krishna.. However, he has also stated that you should not change your dharum..

 

You cannot become a god without worshipping your older gods. However, I think most peeps in UK will not get to heaven as it is to hard..

 

What you say\?

--------------------------

 

IS that what all Swami Narayan people believe ? that one will beocme GOD ?

 

Then how do they claim to follow Vaisnavism in any shape or form ?

 

Any way here is what Sri Krishna explains in gita

 

 

Chapter 2. Contents of the Gita Summarized

TEXT 12

 

na tv evaham jatu nasam

na tvam neme janadhipah

na caiva na bhavisyamah

sarve vayam atah param

 

SYNONYMS

 

na--never; tu--but; eva--certainly; aham--I; jatu--become; na--never; asam--existed; na--it is not so; tvam--yourself; na--not; ime--all these; jana-adhipah--kings; na--never; ca--also; eva--certainly; na--not like that; bhavisyamah--shall exist; sarve--all of us; vayam--we; atah param--hereafter.

TRANSLATION

 

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

PURPORT

 

In the Vedas, in the Katha Upanisad as well as in the Svetasvatara Upanisad, it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the maintainer of innumerable living entities, in terms of their different situations according to individual work and reaction of work. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is also, by His plenary portions, alive in the heart of every living entity. Only saintly persons who can see, within and without, the same Supreme Lord, can actually attain to perfect and eternal peace.

 

nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam

eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman

tam atma-stham ye 'nupasyanti dhiras

tesam santih sasvati netaresam

(Katha 2.2.13)

 

 

The same Vedic truth given to Arjuna is given to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have but a poor fund of knowledge. The Lord says clearly that He Himself, Arjuna, and all the kings who are assembled on the battlefield, are eternally individual beings and that the Lord is eternally the maintainer of the individual living entities both in their conditioned as well as in their liberated situations. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme individual person, and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal associate, and all the kings assembled there are individual, eternal persons. It is not that they did not exist as individuals in the past, and it is not that they will not remain eternal persons. Their individuality existed in the past, and their individuality will continue in the future without interruption. Therefore, there is no cause for lamentation for anyone.

The Mayavadi theory that after liberation the individual soul, separated by the covering of maya or illusion, will merge into the impersonal Brahman and lose its individual existence is not supported herein by Lord Krsna, the supreme authority. Nor is the theory that we only think of individuality in the conditioned state supported herein. Krsna clearly says herein that in the future also the individuality of the Lord and others, as it is confirmed in the Upanisads, will continue eternally. This statement of Krsna is authoritative because Krsna cannot be subject to illusion. If individuality is not a fact, then Krsna would not have stressed it so much--even for the future. The Mayavadi may argue that the individuality spoken of by Krsna is not spiritual, but material. Even accepting the argument that the individuality is material, then how can one distinguish Krsna's individuality? Krsna affirms His individuality in the past and confirms His individuality in the future also. He has confirmed His individuality in many ways, and impersonal Brahman has been declared to be subordinate to Him. Krsna has maintained spiritual individuality all along; if He is accepted as an ordinary conditioned soul in individual consciousness, then His Bhagavad-gita has no value as authoritative scripture. A common man with all the four defects of human frailty is unable to teach that which is worth hearing. The Gita is above such literature. No mundane book compares with the Bhagavad-gita. When one accepts Krsna as an ordinary man, the Gita loses all importance. The Mayavadi argues that the plurality mentioned in this verse is conventional and that it refers to the body. But previous to this verse such a bodily conception is already condemned. After condemning the bodily conception of the living entities, how was it possible for Krsna to place a conventional proposition on the body again? Therefore, individuality is maintained on spiritual grounds and is thus confirmed by great acaryas like Sri Ramanuja and others. It is clearly mentioned in many places in the Gita that this spiritual individuality is understood by those who are devotees of the Lord. Those who are envious of Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead have no bona fide access to the great literature. The nondevotee's approach to the teachings of the Gita is something like bees licking on a bottle of honey. One cannot have a taste of honey unless one opens the bottle. Similarly, the mysticism of the Bhagavad-gita can be understood only by devotees, and no one else can taste it, as it is stated in the Fourth Chapter of the book. Nor can the Gita be touched by persons who envy the very existence of the Lord. Therefore, the Mayavadi explanation of the Gita is a most misleading presentation of the whole truth. Lord Caitanya has forbidden us to read commentations made by the Mayavadis and warns that one who takes to such an understanding of the Mayavadi philosophy loses all power to understand the real mystery of the Gita. If individuality refers to the empirical universe, then there is no need of teaching by the Lord. The plurality of the individual soul and of the Lord is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed by the Vedas as above mentioned.

[Guest guest]

 

You cannot become a god without worshipping your older gods. However, I think most peeps in UK will not get to heaven as it is to hard..

 

What you say\?

 

 

 

Hey uk person, heard of the pandava sena, they could help you out with these questions:-

 

http://www.psena.com/

 

Project Yuddhistira

To educate members in the philosophy and culture of Krishna Consciousness.

 

Project Bhima

To safeguard Vedic values and give a spiritual perspective on modern issues.

 

Project Arjuna

To revolutionise university campuses with Krishna Consciousness.

 

Project Nakula

To replicate the activities of Pandava Sena all over the world.

 

Project Sahadeva

To publish relevant and youthful material for the propagation of Krishna Consciousness.

[Guest guest]

Jai Sri Krishna

 

I have Swaminarayan devotee friends and have read copies of the Shikshapatri. It Appears that this issue is extremly confusing. In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan is fully supporting Krishna upasana, and is very specific, Swaminarayn devotees interpret the name Krishna in SHikshaparti to mean swaminarayan himself, but its is very clear as He mentions the worship of Krishna with Radha or Lakshmiji. Swaminarayn himelf eslablised images of Krishna, Radha, Lakshmi, Nara narayan in his temples.

 

I think the confusion comes from the Vanchamuratam which is a complilation of sermons which Swaminarayan gave to his devotees over the period of his Life on earth. I do not have any verses in mind, but my Swaminarayan devottee frinds explain how in this scripture he reveals his divinity as supreme. I asked my friend why he mentions Krishna as the supreme and my friend expliend to me how he and his fellow devotees see Swaminarayan as Supreme. They beleive that swaminarayan revealed his status in stages. At one point such as in the Shikshapatri he talks as a Krishan devotee, in the Vanchamarutam he goes on to say he is Krishna then also says how he is the source of Krishna.

 

It is a contraversional and confusing issue. Today the swaminarayan sect is made of of so many offshoots and branches, who each have the interpretation of their beleifs regarding succesion. What makes it more confusing is that each sect claims to be true sect and preaches very different viewpoints so you dont know who to beleive!!!!! the Original branch (http://www.swaminarayan.info/) for example only follow the houselholder decendents of Swaminarayan as Gurus whereas the Followers of BAPs (http://www.swaminarayan.org), claim that swaminarayn gave his succesion to a senior Sadhu (gunatitananad) and follow a line of succesion from him, further more they give Gunatitanand a positoin similar to what Radha or Lakshmi is given in Gaudiya and Sri samparadayas. Then you have the maninagar sanstha (swaminarayan gadi sanstha) (www.swaminarayangadi.com ) who have another very different beleif, they follow a line of succesion from another close sanyasi diciple of swaminarayan; Gopalananad. They go on the claim that swaminarayan repeared on earth as Abjibaba and this reapeareance was promised by swaminarayn in his own lifetime. With regards to krishna worship, the original sect seems to still intall and worship Images if Radha Krishna and Nara narayan in the central alters of there temples. Baps have swaminarayan and gunatitanad on the central alter but have Krishna, Rama, Vishnu etc.. on a alter next to Swaminarayan. The maninagar temples seem to to have forgoten Krishna complety all they have are images of swaminarayan and his disciples.

 

Speaking of my own experiences i became attracted at one point to the swaminarayan sect, as here in the uk they are very prominent. However looking at how confusing their sect is i was put of. There are so many contradictions in the claims of the various fractions as well as what the shikshaparti says and what the sect follows today, for example in the shiskshapatri, swaminarayan tells his followers to chant the ashtakshari Krishna mantra (i dont know if this is 'Sri Krishna sharanam mama' or 'Namo Narayanaya' which are both ashtakshari) but my swaminarayan friends chant the 'swaminarayan mantra'.

 

I have instead become drawn to Shri Vaishnanvism which is a well recognised and bonafide sampradaya. (which by the way swaminarayans claim to have inherited the line of sucession from).

 

When i think of this sect a few questions come to mind

1) Swaminarayans interpret certain verses from the Puranas as predicting the avatar of swaminarayan, i wonder what the other sects of vaishanavism such as the Ramanujas and Madhvas, (which have a long scholary history) interpret the verses as.

 

2) Swaminarayans their disciplic succesion through the Sri Sampradaya. According to the history of the sect, Swami Ramananad (not to be confused with Ramananad the founder of The ramanannadi sect!!!!), went on a search for truth, during his travels he arrived at a seat of Sri Ramananuja in SriRangam. he is said to have carried out service at Srirangam and Ramananuja appeared (this i all long after Sri Ramanuja dissapeared from earth) to him in a dream and gave him vaishnava initiation....So i wonder what the Sri(ramanuja) sampradaya views this as..do they regard swaminarayanis as part of thier sect????????

 

3) Krishna is the most complete of the froms of Vishnu, all Vedic branches seem to honour him. Nearly all schoolf od philsophy Vaishnava or Mayavada repsect the word of our Lord; the Geeta. Now if Swaminarayn is the Source of Krishna as i have heard some swaminarayans say (see http://www.geocities.com/sarvopari/sarvopari.htm). if he is the supreme then why is he not revered by all hindus like krishna is??????

[akshar]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Yes your correct! He is talking about himself. When he had the naming ceremony he was named Ghanshyam AND KRISHNA. It's a fact read the Ghanshyam charitra it explains it i think. So yes he's talking about himself. When he says i meditate my heart on and ladida he means meditate your heart on Krishna for i am Krishna, it's my original name. So there you have it. It's cleared up.</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

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Here is sometrhing I got form a phd studying sanskrit about the akshar verse.

 

 

"...the first quote about Akshardham from the Skanda Purana is a good example of this: Here Lord Vasudeva simply says that that He has an imperishable (akshara)abode (dhama), where He eternally lives in the company of Srimati Radharani and Lakshmi devi. This is clearly a reference to Lord Krishna's abode. Lord Krishna confirms in Bhagavad-gita also that His dhama is imperishable. Basically, I don't think that there is much point in arguing about these verses. The the fact is that if you already believe that Sri Swaminarayan is God, then you will find these quotations convincing, otherwise not."

 

 

This is a paragraph from a response I got concerning swaminaryanas athenticity.

 

 

Q. Hasn't swaminarayan established the worship of Krishna in the shikshapatri?

 

S. Yes swaminaryana took Krishna as his ista deva, just as ram worshipped shiva etc.

 

 

Q. But swaminarayan in verse 108 of shikshapatri says Krishna is the source of all incarnations (Avtari) but you say swaminaryana is this.

 

S. Oh.. Actually when he says this he is talking about himself.

 

 

Go figure.

 

 

[akshar]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">You saying that swaminarayans should not worship laxmi mata etc. Of course we will. They are god and goddesses too. We want their blessings as much as sahajanand swami's</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

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[akshar]

when was krishna born and when was swaminarayan born? it takes time for devotees to gather. Their are only one mill swmnryns on the planet

[gHari]

Krsna was never born.

 

He has been coming to every universe in the material world from time immemorial. But He was never born, as He reveals in the Bhagavad-gita.

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/28/en

[akshar]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">I don't mean it like that. When he came to earth as a child through a mother and a father</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

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