protectacow Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Various Quotes from A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami that i have saved and many times do not have the proper text number or dates spoken, sorry, but all can be found in "Complete Works of A.C.B.S.Prabhuapda folio disk (thanks govindram)............... TRANSLATION Being puffed up by material power, Kartaviryarjuna encouraged his men to steal Jamadagni's kamadhenu. Thus the men forcibly took away the crying kamadhenu, along with her calf, to Mahismati, Kartaviryarjuna's capital. PURPORT The word havirdhanim is significant in this verse. Havirdhanim refers to a cow required for supplying havis, or ghee, for the performance of ritualistic ceremonies in sacrifices. In human life, one should be trained to perform yajnas. As we are informed in Bhagavad-gita (3.9), yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah: if we do not perform yajna, we shall simply work very hard for sense gratification like dogs and hogs. This is not civilization. A human being should be trained to perform yajna. Yajnad bhavati parjanyah. If yajnas are regularly performed, there will be proper rain from the sky, and when there is regular rainfall, the land will be fertile and suitable for producing all the necessities of life. Yajna, therefore, is essential. For performing yajna, clarified butter is essential, and for clarified butter, . cow protection is essential. Therefore, if we neglect the Vedic way of civilization, we shall certainly suffer. So-called scholars and philosophers do not know the secret of success in life, and therefore they suffer in the hands of prakrti, nature (prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah). Nonetheless, although they are forced to suffer, they think they are advancing in civilization (ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate). The Krsna consciousness movement is therefore meant to revive a mode of civilization in which everyone will be happy. This is the motive of our Krsna consciousness movement. Yajne sukhena bhavantu. Simple living, high thinking and high practice. That's the cornerstone of our philosophies . Bhagavan: It seems they are struggling so hard for existence they do not have time to contemplate these simple things, working so hard. Prabhupada: So show the simple example that how by simple living and thinking of Krsna, one can become perfect and happy. Prabhupada: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Krsna consciousness. Then you will be happy. What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure. To become pure is not at all difficult. Rather, to become impure, it is difficult. But people, with all difficulties, they are becoming impure. Otherwise the idea which I am giving, you can start anywhere, anywhere, any part of the world. It doesn't matter. Locally you produce your own food. You get your own cloth. Have sufficient milk, vegetables. Then what you want more? And chant Hare Krsna. This is Vedic civilization: plain living, high thinking. And poor thinking, poor in thought, poor in behavior, and living with motorcar and this, that, nonsense. It is all nonsense civilization. Another feature of the devotee is nirihaya, simple living. Niriha means "gentle,meek" or "simple." A devotee should not live very gorgeously and imitate a materialistic person. Plain living and high thinking are recommended for a devotee. It is by ignorance that people think that by opening factories they will be happy. Why should they open factories? There is no need. There is so much land, and one can produce one's own food grains and eat sumptuously without any factory. Milk is also available without a factory. The factory cannot produce milk or grains. The present scarcity of food in the world is largely due to such factories. When everyone is working in the city to produce nuts and bolts, who will produce food grains? Simple living and high thinking is the solution to economic problems. Therefore the Krsna consciousness movement in engaging devotees in producing their own food and living self-sufficiently so that rascals may see how one can live very peacefully, eat the food grains one has grown oneself, drink milk, and chant Hare Krsna. If one lives a simple life--plain living and high thinking--he can progress and can cultivate the same Krsna consciousness even within the family. satya sama saucam arjavam, simplicity. Not to encourage artificial necessities of life. Simple life, plain living, high thinking, simplicity. And titiksa, tolerance. Because this world is miserable. Simply increasing artificial life, even for shaving, a big machine is required. What is this? Simply wasting time. Devil's workshop. Make life very simple. And simple living, high thinking, and always conscious to go back to home, back to Krsna. That is life. Not this life, that simply machine, machine, machine, machine. So if you show practical example that how you are living simple life and how you are advanced in Krsna consciousness, then people will learn from you. But certainly we can start reducing this greed. Reduce and reduce. And then that's the only way to purify the mind. And then ought show such a society where greed has been reduced will be relatively a peaceful society. Simple living, high thinking and high practice. That's the cornerstone of our philosophies. Prabhupada: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"--what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Krsna. Parasya saktir vividaiva sruyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Krsna. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. The Krsna conscious life style is based on the principles of simple living and high thinking. Prabhupada: Yes, our "plain living, high thinking" is very nice idea. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking--United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Krsna conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity. Our motto is simple living, high thinking. The transcendentalist is specifically warned herewith to be fixed in mind, so that even if there is difficulty in plain living and high thinking he will not budge even an inch from his stark determination. For a transcendentalist, it is a suicidal policy to be intimately in touch with the sense gratifiers of the world, because such a policy will frustrate the ultimate gain of life. The sufferings of human society are due to a polluted aim of life, namely lording it over the material resources. The more human society engages in the exploitation of undeveloped material resources for sense gratification, the more it will be entrapped by the illusory, material energy of the Lord, and thus the distress of the world will be intensified instead of diminished. The human necessities of life are fully supplied by the Lord in the shape of food grains, milk, fruit, wood, stone, sugar, silk, jewels, cotton, salt, water, vegetables, etc., in sufficient quantity to feed and care for the human race of the world as well as the living beings on each and every planet within the universe. The supply source is complete, and only a little energy by the human being is required to get his necessities into the proper channel. There is no need of machines and tools or huge steel plants for artificially creating comforts of life. Life is never made comfortable by artificial needs, but by plain living and high thinking. Everyone must understand Krsna's activities (janma karma ca me divyam). If one understands the purpose of Krsna's coming to this earth and performing His activities, one is immediately liberated. This liberation is the purpose of the creation and Krsna's descent upon the surface of the earth. Demons are very much interested in advancing a plan by which people will labor hard like cats, dogs and hogs, but Krsna's devotees want to teach Krsna consciousness so that people will be satisfied with plain living and Krsna conscious advancement. Although demons have created many plans for industry and hard labor so that people will work day and night like animals, this is not the purpose of civilization. Such endeavors are jagato'hitah; that is, they are meant for the misfortune of the people in general. Ksayaya: such activities lead to annihilation. One who understands the purpose of Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, should seriously understand the importance of the Krsna consciousness movement and seriously take part in it. One should not endeavor for ugra-karma, or unnecessary work for sense gratification. But the poor materialist makes plans to live comfortably here and thus wastes his valuable human energy in something which is doomed to frustration. Instead of wasting his time with business speculations, he might have sought the life of plain living and high spiritual thinking and thus saved himself from perpetual materialistic unrest. The net result is scarcity all over the world, so much so that even the bare necessities of life, namely food and clothing, become objects of contention and control. And so arise all sorts of obstacles to the traditional, God-given life of plain living and high thinking. Human life is meant for plain living and high thinking. Since all conditioned living beings are under the control of the Lord's third energy, this material world is designed so that one is obliged to work. If people are advised not to collect too many goods, eat too much or work unnecessarily to possess artificial amenities, they think they are being advised to return to a primitive way of life. Generally people do not like to accept plain living and high thinking. That is their unfortunate position. That is the Krsna philosophy. Be satisfied, plain living and high thinking. That is required. And that is the best type of civilization. Plain living, high thinking So many things, materialistic persons they possess. But we try to simplify matters, plain living. Interviewer: You run farms as well, do you not? Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Interviewer: What do they... Prabhupada: So you try to... Interviewer: Are they working farms, producing farms? Prabhupada: Yes, there are many farms in your country. Just now I am coming from New Vrindaban in West Virginia. They are living. If you go sometime, you can see how independently they are living. And there are other farms, New Orleans, and just now we are going tomorrow... Ramesvara Pennsylvania. Prabhupada: Pennsylvania.(Gita Nagari) So we get enough milk, enough food grains, enough fruits. So there is no economic problem. Our purpose is to save time from unnecessary necessities of life, from unnecessary necessities of life, to save time and utilize the time for developing Krsna consciousness. And so far the body is concerned, as much as it is required take and maintain the body. That's all. Interviewer: Your devotees' health is looked after, then. Prabhupada: Yes. Interviewer: By who? Prabhupada: They are instructed in that way, plain living, high thinking. What is this? Simply wasting time. Devil's workshop. Make life very simple. And simple living, high thinking, and always conscious to go back to home, back to Krsna. That is life. Not this life, that simply machine, machine, machine, machine. So if you show practical example that how you are living simple life and how you are advanced in Krsna consciousness, then people will learn from you. You American people, if you show example, people will try to follow you, and they will be happy. So I am very glad to see this farm. Develop it nicely, live peacefully, and chant Hare Krsna. Thank you very much. Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: This project should be advanced--plain living, high thinking. Develop the farm in New York (Later named by Prabhupada, Gita Nagari in Pennsylvania) nicely. Show by example what it means plain living and high thinking. By God's arrangement, anyone in any part of the world can live very peacefully if he has some land and a milk cow. By God's arrangement there is sufficient scope for the production of milk and grains for human beings all over the world, but instead of using his higher intelligence to cultivate God consciousness, so-called intelligent men misuse their intelligence to produce many unnecessary and unwanted things. but I think like that; that people may be happy in any place with land and cow without endeavoring for so-called amenities of modern life --which simply increase anxieties for maintenance and proper equipment. The less we are anxious for maintaining our body and soul together, the more we become favorable for advancing in Krishna Consciousness. So the same milk is supplied by the cow. She's actually mother, and this rascal civilization is killing mother. Mother-killing civilization. Just see. You suck the breast of your mother from the beginning of your life and when she's old if you think: "Mother is useless burden. Cut its throat." Is that civilization? So these rascals are doing that. Taking milk as much as possible from the cows, and then as soon as... Milk is not stopped, it will again come if the cow is protected, given right nutritious food and protection, cow will supply you milk so long she lives. As long as she lives. But as soon as they see that the cow... "Now they were giving thirty kilos. Now it has decreased, twenty kilos or ten kilos. Oh, economic development. Cut it's throat. It will become more and more problems, city life. So this is the solution, that they must go back to the village. But they are trained up to enjoy the facilities, so-called facilities, of the city. They are not going to village. But if we can introduce this hari-sankirtana, and if they have little taste, that is success. It's a great program. And that taste will come--ceto-darpana-marjanam. If he simply becomes little sober that "I want to eat, I have to sleep, I want some sense enjoyment and defense. So if I can get easily in the village, why shall I go three hundred miles away? Just keep in mind the psychology. So that simple life will be possible if one is bhakta. Prabhupada: No, simply do this. Ramesvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society. Prabhupada: Yes. Whatever it may be... We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life. It is by ignorance that people think that by opening factories they will be happy. Why should they open factories? There is no need. There is so much land, and one can produce one's own food grains and eat sumptuously without any factory. Milk is also available without a factory. The factory cannot produce milk or grains. The present scarcity of food in the world is largely due to such factories. When everyone is working in the city to produce nuts and bolts, who will produce food grains? Simple living and high thinking is the solution to economic problems. Therefore the Krsna consciousness movement in engaging devotees in producing their own food and living self-sufficiently so that rascals may see how one can live very peacefully, eat the food grains one has grown oneself, drink milk, and chant Hare Krsna What is this nonsense life, big, big cities and always people busy? If he wants to see one friend, he has to go thirty miles. If he has to see a physician, he has to go fifty miles. If he has to go to work, another hundred miles. So what is this life? This is not life. Be satisfied. The devotee's life should be yavad artha-prayojanam. We require material necessities as much as it is required, no artificial life. That is spiritual life. Simply increasing artificial life, even for shaving, a big machine is required. What is this? Simply wasting time. Devil's workshop. Make life very simple. And simple living, high thinking, and always conscious to go back to home, back to Krsna. That is life. Not this life, that simply machine, machine, machine, machine. So if you show practical example that how you are living simple life and how you are advanced in Krsna consciousness, then people will learn from you. You American people, if you show example, people will try to follow you, and they will be happy. So I am very glad to see this farm. Develop it nicely, live peacefully, and chant Hare Krsna. Thank you very much. Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. The Krsna conscious life style is based on the principles of simple living and high thinking Trust the self-sufficient mode of living, simple living, high thinking, that is our policy, and as long as Krsna remains in the center of all these activities, then you are actually in Vrindaban Our philosophy is ``simple living and high thinking''--not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder students) must show this by example Krsna conscious devotees know very well that this material world is designed by the complete arrangement of the Lord to fulfill all the necessities of life for all living beings, without their having to encroach upon the life or rights of one another. This complete arrangement affords the proper quota of wealth for everyone according to his real needs, and thus everyone may live peacefully according to the principle of plain living and high thinking. Unfortunately, materialists who have neither faith in the plan of God nor any aspiration for higher spiritual development misuse their God-given intelligence only to augment their material possessions. They devise many systems--such as capitalism and materialistic communism--to advance their material position. They are not interested in the laws of God or in a higher goal. Always anxious to fulfill their unlimited desires for sense gratification, they are conspicuous by their ability to exploit their fellow living beings Krishna das Mahesavari, Son of Lava Pokaar das Sharma Gali, P.O. Hatras U.P. India Dear Krishna das, Mahesavari, Please accept my greetings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter (Hindi postcard) addressed to my Vrindaban Mandir address. You'll be pleased to learn that along with the Hare Krishna Movement in the foreign countries, we are taking care of cow protection very vigorously. There are already dozens of such centres and farms where we are protecting cows like our New Vrindaban community in West Virginia, Bhaktivedanta Manor in London, altogether over 14 such projects have been started throughout the world to date. We are giving protection to the cows with great profit. We are getting huge amounts of milk from which we are preparing lovely yogurt, dahi, sandesh, rasagully, gulabjamon, etc. We have sufficient quantity of ghee for preparing kachori, samosa, and other very palatable confectionaries. The people of this country are gradually taking this idea very seriously for vegetarian diet and stopping cow killing in a practical way. We have got more than 100 temples all over the world and attached to every temple we are opening farms and in many cities restaurants, and all of them are going on very successfully. In India the difference is that no enthusiastic young men with education are joining this movement wholeheartedly whereas in the foreign countries hundreds and thousands of qualified respectable men are joining us. I hope that you are a young man and along with other young friends you should also join us wholeheartedly, then we can do the same work in India. It is the duty of the Vaisyas to take to agriculture and cow protection. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita: Krsi goraksya vanijyam, vaisya karma svabhava jam (18.44). Unfortunately in India, the Vaisyas are not very much interested in agriculture and cow protection. They are more interested in opening factories. So how things can be done if the Vaisyas give us free advice for cow protection and then they themselves are more interested in opening factories, then how can cow protection be properly done? If you see me personally in this connection I shall talk to you in detail. I am returning to India on August 14, 1976 and you can reply this letter to my Bombay Office which address is below. c/o Hare Krishna Land, Juhu Road, Juhu, Bombay 400-054, India I hope that this meets you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Moreover, Daityas must always do the opposite of the demigods. That is their nature. We have actually seen this in relation to our Krsna consciousness movement. We are advocating cow protection and encouraging people to drink more milk and eat palatable preparations made of milk, but the demons, just to protest such proposals, are claiming that they are advanced in scientific knowledge, as described here by the words svadhyaya-sruta-sampannah. They say that according to their scientific way, they have discovered that milk is dangerous and that the beef obtained by killing cows is very nutritious. This difference of opinion will always continue. Indeed, it has existed since days of yore. Millions of years ago, there was the same competition. The demons, as a result of their so-called Vedic study, Generally people do not like to accept plain living and high thinking. That is their unfortunate position. Get them married. Live peacefully and culture God consciousness, Krsna consciousness. That arrangement is there. Why don't you do it? Why do you want more and more, more and more, more and more? This is foolishness. So far your material necessities are concerned, oh, there is enough. All right, you are eating? Can your manufacturing process can supply eating from the factories? No. Then why do you bother about the factory? Why you spoil your energy? Just eat. Be satisfied, whatever God has given you, and culture, devote your time for reviving your eternal relationship with God. Plain living and high thinking--that is the best type of civilization. You want sex? Can you manufacture sex in the factory? No. Then? It is supplied by God. So everything, whatever you require, that is supplied by God. You take advantage of it and be God conscious or Krsna conscious. That is your business. So God has given us all facilities to come to Him, but we are unfortunate. Surabhi is the name of the cows which exist in the spiritual planets and are especially reared by Lord Sri Krsna Himself. As men are made after the form and features of the Supreme Lord, so also the cows are made after the form and features of the surabhi cows in the spiritual kingdom. In the material world the human society gives all protection to the human being, but there is no law to protect the descendants of Surabhi, who can give all protection to men by supplying the miracle food, milk. But Maharaja Pariksit and the Pandavas were fully conscious of the importance of the cow and bull, and they were prepared to punish the cow-killer with all chastisement, including death. There has sometimes been agitation for the protection of the cow, but for want of pious executive heads and suitable laws, the cow and the bull are not given protection. The human society should recognize the importance of the cow and the bull and thus give all protection to these important animals, following in the footsteps of Maharaja Pariksit. For protecting the cows and brahminical culture, the Lord, who is very kind to the cow and the brahmanas (go-brahmana-hitaya), will be pleased with us and will bestow upon us real peace. Room Conversation Vrindaban, November 10, 1977 Prabhupada: But I think I shall be cured.(by taking Bullock Cart to Govardhana Hill on Govardhana Puja Day)=Simple Living/High Thinking also the final order left unfullfilled untill after Nov.77 by some fortunate cow protectors. Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada says he thinks he will be cured by the parikrama. (Bhakti-caru and Shastriji--Hindi) Hamsaduta: Under the circumstances we ... has to. Hamsaduta: If Prabhupada says that by going on parikrama he feels he'll be cured, then how can we continue to place arguments against him? Now the same milk preparation, when it is treated, it becomes the medicine. (Bengali--discussing milk and milk powder) Tamala Krsna: Can you explain what he said? Sac-cid-ananda: Prabhupada asked him, "Can I take powdered milk?" He said, "No." Only pure cow's milk will cure him, and that cough coming, that will cure his... That cure is there. yare dekha, tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa TRANSLATION "Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srtmad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land." PURPORT This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad- Bhagavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men. Instead of living engrossed in material activities, people throughout the world should take advantage of this movement and chant the Hare Krsna maha- mantra at home with their families. One should also refrain from sinful activities--illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Out of these four items, illicit sex is very sinful. Every person must get married. Every woman especially must get married. If the women outnumber the men, some men can accept more than one wife. In that way there will be no prostitution in society. If men can marry more than one wife, illicit sex life will be stopped. One can also produce many nice preparations to offer Krsna--grain, fruit, flowers and milk. Why should one indulge in unnecessary meat-eating and maintain horrible slaughterhouses? What is the use of smoking and drinking tea and coffee? people are already intoxicated by material enjoyment, and if they indulge in further intoxication, what chance is there for self-realization? Similarly, one should not partake in gambling and unnecessarily agitate the mind. The real purpose of human life is to attain the spiritual platform and return to Godhead. That is the summum bonum of spiritual realization. The Krsna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmana Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krsna mantra and preach the instructions of Krsna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 are you yourself engaged in that way? (working the land in simple living, high thinking style) please, tell us a little about yourself. I have seen many devotees preach this "1 cow, 1 acre" idea, and NONE of them EVER lived in that way. so my attitude is: DONT TELL ME HOW TO LIVE - SHOW ME... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Yes prabhu, We ARE the real deal, and we have been since joining in the 70's. We have never been corrupted by "scamkirtana" or false gurus. when Prabhupada directed us to Protect Cows and Live Simple life with Krishna in the center, we followed and kept at it now for decades. We have faults, no doubt, but our faults do not include false preaching the FUNdamentalist following of the Founder/Acharya. I was personally trained by the first to protect cows in the 60's in the west. and my adopted father was the main man for Prabhupada's Cow Protection work. Thank you for your interest, and i hope that clears things up for your question. We invite you to take a look at our site (linked below in signature line), we have photos from the past and present. We are not associated to ISKCON in any way now. We are only associated to the International Society of Krishna Consciousness (we have supporters world wide) oh! and we have 7 cows on 11 acres! and have the record of protecting over 200 cows over the years. this bull is the "Bull from Heaven" featured in a Children's Book of Vedic Stories. click here to go to Gallery of "meet the cows" for Protectacow Farm Trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Prabhu, I have been to your web site, but perhaps I should also come to your farm as well - sounds interesting, especially your way to keep cows lactating without breeding them. I live in Prabhupada Village which is only remotely associated with Iskcon and I have a very keen interest in varnasrama development. I pay little atention to philosophical and political wrangling in our movement and evaluate devotees primarily on the merit of their seva. My idea of Vedic life is closer to that of classic Vedic civilization of 5000 years ago than Victorian India. Anyway, stick around, and we will explore all kinds of ideas /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I did not say that one can milk a cow for years without breeding, i said that our experience with a few cows now is that after the breeding and gestation a cow can Lactate for the rest of her lifetime for that ONE Calf! Please also see the backing up of this experience we have had by Prabhupada's own words..... So the same milk is supplied by the cow. She's actually mother, and this rascal civilization is killing mother. Mother-killing civilization. Just see. You suck the breast of your mother from the beginning of your life and when she's old if you think: "Mother is useless burden. Cut its throat." Is that civilization? So these rascals are doing that. Taking milk as much as possible from the cows, and then as soon as... Milk is not stopped, it will again come if the cow is protected, given right nutritious food and protection, cow will supply you milk so long she lives. As long as she lives. But as soon as they see that the cow... "Now they were giving thirty kilos. Now it has decreased, twenty kilos or ten kilos. Oh, economic development. Cut it's throat. He even repeats this statement that a cow can give milk "as long as she lives" twice! This is something that recent devotees or devotees without as much experience with cows often argue as being "impossible" saying that you have to breed the cow every year to have her milk for year after year. Same old idea of over breeding and the result=over population making "cow protectionimpossible"! This is our experience with more than one cow, now, and the WORD of our Founder/Acharya, who himself is very experienced in Cow Protection. Prabhupada:Of course, we are born in big, big towns, we do not know, but I know this is the process.In Allahabad I was keeping cow, there was facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 ok. that is what I thought: you breed the cow once, and after gestation and delivery she gives milk for the rest of her life? Very interesting and contrary to the typical experience (including mine). Even on devotee farms cows stop giving milk after some time and you HAVE TO breed them to get more milk. Similar with the "as long as she lives" - most cows DO become infertile and "dry up" as they get older, even on devotee farms. I would be thrilled to know your secrets for endless milk production... /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Prabhu you say that your experience is that cows "dry up" after a while, but do not say how long that while is, and do not clearify the words "dry up". I do know that commercial dairys in USA use the words "dry up" for cows that just do not give as much as the beginning of their Lactation. But they NEVER actually go dry and give nothing. (they have to put the cows on special diets to get them to completely dry up, before the cow can give birth again.) Cows do give less after the first year or so of Lactation, but NEVER completely go dry. Our cows that give milk for years and years give much less than their first year of lactation, but never go dry. But still the amount that they give is still enough to satisfy our small family. So i want to stress that if you care for your cows and give them plenty of good pasture and feed, you will be able to get some milk for years. It might not be the same as when she is "fresh" but there will be some. Most of the time the amount given is enough for a small family. I also want to stress that this is NOT any kind of Secret and that Prabhupada is not misstaken in his statement, that is our experience. We have to have faith in Prabhupada and Krishna not commercial dairys and their experiences, or products. I have not only experience with Cow Protection under Srila Prabhupada's earliest Cow Herds, but with Commercial Dairys from my younger years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 you say: "Our cows that give milk for years and years give much less than their first year of lactation, but never go dry. But still the amount that they give is still enough to satisfy our small family." how much milk is that per day? we have several cows here that devotees dont milk because they are dry. some farms have (or had) hundreds of them for many, many years. are you saying that these devotees are too lazy to milk them? that is not my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 A cow will go dry if you do not milk her, but usually only after getting Mastitis from the milk left over. What i am saying (and feel like i am talking to someone who does not want to hear) is that you can milk a cow for her entire lifetime after only one calf IF! if you care for her, appreciate her, feed her as a milker, and milk her still daily, respect her, keep her clean and happy, see her as your own Mother, more or less treat her like the Deity that she is! Our experience is that a cow will give about 1 gallon for the Brown Swiss type cow year after year per day. (if the above rules are followed) By the way, no Iskcon farm had "hundreds" of milk cows, Gita Nagari and New Vrndavana had hundreds of "cows" but they were broken into these different catagories........ young cows and oxen, retired animals (which includes birth defected types,unbreed cows, untrained oxen) oxen, and then milk cows. Gita Nagari had at one time almost 30 milk cows, and they were forced into a dry period by changing their diet a month or two before their next Calfing. Now we know that at Gita Nagari, so many cows did not have to be breed to maintain milk production, but our leaders were looking to commercial dairy for their systems, instead of listening and following Srila Prabhupada. (the first cow that i saw giving milk for over a decade was at Gita Nagari, and her name was Vishaka, ask Mother Kaulini Prabhu) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 gallon of milk per day - every day - is actually very good! dont get me wrong, please. I have been in the movement since 1979, lived on farms, dealt with a lot of farm related issues over the years, and talked to a lot of devotees whose opinion and experience I trust quite a bit. if what you say is not just a unique experience, we need to spread the good word. as to faith - I have plenty, but I also have a lot of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandu_das Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 A devotee family who are friends of mine have a cow who gave milk for about six years, slowing to about a gallon a day for the last few years. Then they went to India for several months, leaving the cow with other devotees to care for. During this time, the cow stopped giving milk for about six months. When the family returned, the cow began giving them milk again, and stopped again after maybe a year. Then they bought a calf at an auction, and the cow started giving milk for the calf. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 Our experience and Prabhupada's word is that a good Cow Protector CAN milk a cow for years. But the Cow HAS to trust the Protector to do so. It does not surprise me too much though to read someone who signs his post as "varnashrama" being one of the main people to doubt Prabhupada and a Succesfull devotee's words on a certain subject. "varnashrama" can NOT work untill the COW is there first. Always Prabhupada says that Vedic Culture=Cow and Brahmana. To allow some retired cows to graze on one's property is not much experience, with cows, i think. And to be so doubtfull that a PROPERLY Protected Cow, who is Cared for and has Trust in her Protector, can give more milk than what a commercial dairy farmer gets. And put so many stumbling blocks in the way of another directive given by our Founder/Acharya, namely the Dried Milk Program. Makes me wonder why does someone use the words "varnashrama" in their signature? Why doubt others experience and Founder's words? And why try to talk others out of trying to fullfill those words? Varnashrama the dif. between aryan and barbarian! Who is the barbarian? Now, me thinks i know! barbarian 2 DISAPPROVING a person with little education who has no interest in art and culture: - How can you call those barbarians your friends? 1 a member of a group of people from a very different country or culture that is considered to be less socially advanced and more violent than your own: - The walled city was attacked by barbarian hordes. Prabhupada: ........if the cow is protected, given right nutritious food and protection, cow will supply you milk so long she lives. As long as she lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 our farms have been a dismal failure for a lot of reasons, but one of them was being overly simplistic and naive in our approach. we cant all be raising cows - that is neither practical nor a true varnasrama. most of the devotees have no desire to live like villagers in India, and those who tried - quickly realized that life is not for them. THAT is a reality. my greatest desire when it comes to varnasrama is that our movement is run by true brahmanas and kshatriyas. if that is accomplished, true vaishyas will have a facitity for proper cow protection. we all have a place in this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 "Makes me wonder why does someone use the words "varnashrama" in their signature? Why doubt others experience and Founder's words? And why try to talk others out of trying to fullfill those words?" Prabhu, thank you for your criticism, but please try to understand what my objections really are. I understand and very much agree with Srila Prabhupada's idea of simple living and high thinking. But how do we attain that? That is the object of the debate. Words of the Acharya do not exist in a vacuum - they are to be seen in the context of sadhu and shastra, as well as in the context of time, place and circumstances. SP never wanted us to be blind followers - he very much wanted us to exercise our rationality and critical thinking. We had enough blind following in our movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 our farms have been a dismal failure for a lot of reasons, but one of them was being overly simplistic and naive in our approach. we cant all be raising cows - that is neither practical nor a true varnasrama. most of the devotees have no desire to live like villagers in India, and those who tried - quickly realized that life is not for them. THAT is a reality. my greatest desire when it comes to varnasrama is that our movement is run by true brahmanas and kshatriyas. if that is accomplished, true vaishyas will have a facitity for proper cow protection. we all have a place in this system. I really appreciate your reaction to my critisim, with a "thanks" no less! /images/graemlins/grin.gif=real devotee, you are! /images/graemlins/grin.gif But again i must come back with my retort, no matter please if i can't spell all words corectly. I do not see all our farms as dismal failures. My work with other's put together has now saved over 200 cows due to Prabhupada's great desire to do so. Perhaps those farms where so many cows were saved were not perfect ideal examples of Brahminical Culture. But looking from the hoofs of so many cows, oxen, calfs and retired animals, it was a great success. Along with the chanting of us, perhaps the world is more peacefull than what it would have been if Prabhupada had not set this into motion. I would argue that my life since my teen years, all engaged in Srila Prabhupada's Cow Protection work, and now approaching 30 years, is not a "dismal failure". The only "dismal failure" is the lack of full following of Prabhupada's words. He gave us instructions and we did not all listen, THAT IS THE DISMAL FAILURE. Not saving hundreds of Krishna's Surabhi Representatives! That is the failure, if we HAD used "blind following" perhaps your idea that the farms were "dismal failures" would have been more closely aligned with my view, that they are and were Great Successes! /images/graemlins/confused.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 you can certainly try to see it that way - no harm in that. but from a social perspective it also was a dismal failure: - the farms cant feed themselves, let alone produce a surplus - the farms did not provide viable way of life and income for most devotees - the farms did not re-create the varnasrama system which was the desire of Srila Prabhupada. just to name a few reasons. yet, on an individual level, there are great examples of how farms helped us spiritually and materially, so yes - the picture is mixed. armed with experiences from the past we can certainly improve - that's what we try to do here in Prabhupada Village. last thing we want is another generation of devotees discouraged by simplistic models that do not work and poor practical leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protectacow Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 From Hare Krishna Farm in Spain...... /images/graemlins/grin.gif We have two cows, Lila, and Kalindi. Lila is still giving us about 5 litres of milk a day 7 years after giving birth to her last calf, which is testimony to the idea that cows if treated with love for their entire life, will respond by providing nutritious milk for many years, what to speak of the gold in the form of their dung for agricultural production madhuvan.org farm in spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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