Shadow of Mordor grows longer- gay "marriage" California

[theist]

 

Legislature approves gay marriage

Gender-neutral legislation in hands of Schwarzenegger, who hints at veto

Lynda Gledhill, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau

 

Wednesday, September 7, 2005

 

 

Sacramento -- The state Assembly, in a stunning victory for the gay rights movement, approved a landmark bill allowing same-sex marriage Tuesday night and sent it to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

 

The measure, which passed with no votes to spare, marks the first time that a legislative body in the United States has approved a bill that legalizes gay marriage. Schwarzenegger has not taken an official position on the legislation but has hinted that he would veto it.

 

Just three months after the Assembly defeated an identical bill, 41 Democrats voted to approve the measure. Three Democrats who had abstained on the previous measure changed course and voted for the bill.

 

"It's always a dilemma whether to follow or lead. This is one of those times history is looking to us to lead," said Assemblyman Tom Umberg, D-Santa Ana, one of the swing votes, during more than an hour of debate. The final vote was 41-35, with all Republicans and a handful of Democrats opposed.

 

The bill, AB849, does not require any religious organization to recognize or perform marriages for same-sex couples. The bill makes the law defining marriage gender-neutral. California state law did not place gender into the marriage code until 1977.

 

Opponents have promised to go to court if the bill becomes law, saying it violates the spirit of Proposition 22, a 2000 ballot initiative that defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. They also say they will go to the polls next year with proposed constitutional amendments that would ban same-sex marriage.

 

"What about Prop. 22? What about the 62 percent of Californians who supported it? What about their will?" asked Assemblyman Dennis Mountjoy, R-Monrovia (Los Angeles County). "If this legislation doesn't subvert the will of the people, I don't know what does."

 

Schwarzenegger's office has repeated that he believes the issue should be decided either by a vote of the people or a court decision. He has said he supports the state's current domestic partnership laws.

 

"The governor believes the people spoke with Prop. 22, and that is now in the courts," said Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson. "The governor believes that is where it belongs and will uphold any decisions the courts make."

 

Massachusetts became the only state that allows same-sex marriage after a court ruling. Vermont permits civil unions.

 

Supporters and opponents of the bill focused on a handful of moderate Democrats who had abstained on the measure previously. Their offices reported getting a huge influx of calls and letters on the issue from both sides.

 

San Francisco Assemblyman Mark Leno, the Democrat who wrote the bill, said reaching the benchmark of 41 votes was difficult. When the final vote was called, there was a moment of stunned silence before supporters broke out in cheers. Leno grabbed Assembly Speaker Fabian Núñez, D-Los Angeles, in a bear hug and lifted him off the floor with glee.

 

"He was resolute in his leadership," Leno said of the speaker. "He always said civil rights is civil rights."

 

Leno said momentum has been building in favor of same-sex marriage, and several events in the past few months helped to turn the tide in the Assembly. Those include endorsements from the United Farm Workers Union and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa along with the nation of Spain approving marriage for same-sex couples.

 

Umberg said that of all the constituents who contacted him on the bill, he had ultimately looked to his three children.

 

"I wanted them to look back and see where I was when we could make a difference, if I stood with those who took a leadership role in terms of tolerance, equity and fairness," he said. "And I'll be proud to say I did."

 

Assemblywoman Gloria Negrete McLeod, D-Chino (Santa Barbara County), was another swing vote. She said she was convinced listening to the words of the Declaration of Independence that demanded "justice for all." Assemblyman Simon Salinas, D-Salinas, was the third member who had previously abstained to vote "aye" and push the bill to victory.

 

Opponents said Democrats who voted for the bill are not leaders.

 

"I say you are betraying the people of California," said Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-La Mesa (San Diego County). "You are not leading. You have gone astray."

 

The Capitol rotunda was a scene of cheers, hugs and tears of joy as ecstatic supporters of the bill streamed out of the Assembly gallery after the 41st vote was recorded.

 

"I kept telling myself it wouldn't pass because I didn't want to get my hopes up,'' said Suzanne Neilsen of Sacramento, her arm wrapped tightly around her partner, Jan Roberts.

 

Neilsen and Roberts were married in San Francisco on Valentine's Day 2004 and were crushed when the state Supreme Court declared their wedding invalid.

 

"We're regular people like everyone else,'' said Roberts, fighting off tears. "Now, our rights are there. Even filling out our taxes every year will be easier.''

 

Hanus Jelinek of San Francisco said that far from threatening marriage, the bill would allow him to live the same life as anyone else.

 

"I can settle down with my beloved, and the government will just leave us alone,'' he said.

 

Focus now turns to Schwarzenegger.

 

"Schwarzenegger can't afford to sign the 'gay marriage license' bill," said Randy Thomasson, president of Campaign for Children and Families, which helped lead the statewide battle against AB849. "He'll actually become a hero to the majority of Californians when he vetoes it. The Terminator should announce without delay that this bill is dead meat."

 

But Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, said the governor would be deciding his legacy when he decides whether to sign or veto the bill.

 

"He will determine whether he will be the first governor to do a little heavy lifting and support equality for all or whether he will become the first governor to terminate our rights," he said. "We know in his heart he wants to do the right thing

[Guest guest]

 

I see the new trend toward gay marriage as a very positive thing--a reversal of Kali-yuga and move toward a more just and accommodating society.

 

Not everything is going downhill all the time. Let's try to be more positive! There are lots of favorable things happening too, such as more people becoming vegetarians, more people chanting, more Deities being worshipped, and less discrimination based on bodily prejudice. As far as I'm concerned, modern society's growing recognition of gay marriage is more in tune with the tolerant attitudes of ancient Vedic culture (which actually allowed many things we forbid today, like polygamy, prostitution, etc.)

[Kulapavana]

are most visible in criminally incompetent and corrupt US government.

 

big deal that some gay people can get married - most of them live together in a de facto marriage anyway. how about 100,000 innocent lives lost in Iraq? THAT is Mordor!

[theist]

 

I see the new trend toward gay marriage as a very positive thing--

 

 

As an obvious homosexual activist I am sure you do.

 

 

 

a reversal of Kali-yuga and move toward a more just and accommodating society.

 

 

Another absurb statement from the homosex quarter. "A reversal of Kali-yuga" as if in previous ages there was homosex marriages and then along came kali-yuga and heterosex became the only way allowed. What nonsense.

 

"Accommodating" I can agree with. In kali yuga the base and lower desires find accomodation. I found much accomdation for my near total heterosexual addiction from the society around me from every angle.

 

What I really needed was a spiritualy strong society around me to prevent me from slipping farther down, instead I found myself having to fight the accommodatting society for my life.

[theist]

Cites prop 22.

[Guest guest]

I hate these fags because their BS got bush elected. Utter selfishness, utter perversion stuffed down everyon es throat. And I dont have a problem with third genders, either. I accept the scientific version.

 

That said, when Iraq is killing our wonderful servicement for a lost cause, the neo-cons talk homosex. The south is dying, and the neocons want everyone to pay attention to californicate homosex. What is the difference. To hear and chant homosex has nothing to do with sexual preferance, the fags want to glorify their perversion, the neo-fascist want to glorify the same thing on the opposite angle, their opposition. Arnie, the breast groper, has some nerve being all self righteous about perversion. I suppose he says that athletes who use steroids should be thrown in prison as well.

 

This law is about rights without regard to race, gender, etc. Right to have the same facility. This is not a law giving endorsement to NAMBA, child molestation, etc. This law only pertains to law abiding citizens who think they are free. And, unfortunately for those homosexuals who are law abiding and wanting freedom, your counterparts, the utter disrespectful faggots who like to parade around and give aids to everyone by their promiscuity, these people have ruined your chances for freedom. Your plight is not unlike the real christians out there who are discredited by drunken, drug-addicted, grossly materialistic, murdering ASSASSINS who like to advertize themselves as christians.

 

I support gay contracts in civil court to afford all citizens their constitutional rights, equal to other family structures. I hate exhibitionist faggots who are the most selfish perverts on earth who have made fascism a viable choice for the ignorant.

 

mahak

[AncientMariner]

IN KATRINA'S WAKE

Another homosexual parade after hurricane devastation

'Every gay home in town is filled to the rafters with friends and relatives from New Orleans'

 

--

Posted: September 8, 2005

5:00 p.m. Eastern

 

 

By Joe Kovacs

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

 

Robert Baxter pushes Grand Marshal Robert Doucet last night during Southern Decadence Parade in Exile in Lafayette, La. (courtesy: The Daily Advertiser)

 

For the second time this week, homosexuals held a "gay"-pride parade in Louisiana, a state that suffered catastrophic damage by Hurricane Katrina.

 

Last night's event took place in the city of Lafayette, where events were renamed "Southern Decadence in Exile" after the storm canceled last week's "Southern Decadence," a tradition that began in 1972.

 

 

The parade commenced a few minutes late from its 5 p.m. start time, but that didn't seem to bother participants.

 

"Queens are always late," Levy Easterly, 43, of New Orleans, told the Daily Advertiser. "And we need time to get a buzz."

 

Robert Baxter, one of the driving forces behind the event, told the paper, "We're trying to show the world that the gay community wasn't killed off."

 

While the local newspaper reported there were a "couple dozen" participants in yesterday's march, the website 365Gay.com put the figure at "several hundred."

 

"Every gay home in town is filled to the rafters with friends and relatives from New Orleans," Baxter told the website, noting he has eight Katrina survivors living with him in Lafayette. "There isn't a person in this town who hasn't been affected in one way or another by the hurricane. We didn't get a drop of rain here, but our lives are changed forever."

 

Baxter is among those who wanted the 33-year tradition to continue, even while hundreds of thousands of Louisiana residents have been forced to evacuate their homes.

 

"We couldn't let it just end with the hurricane," organizer Mack Money told 365Gay.com. "It's too important to everyone in New Orleans."

 

Not having a police permit to parade on Jefferson Street, marchers sauntered up the sidewalk between two "gay" bars, and came to a stop for a moment of silence to remember those did not escape the catastrophic storm.

 

"What do they want us to do? Roll over and die too?" Baxter asked. "Do they want us to just give up?"

 

With a theme of "Floatin' Floozies," parade participants wore FEMA armbands, standing for "Federal Emergency Mismanagement Agency."

 

Many, including Grand Marshal Robert Doucet, aka Stephanie Stevens, were transvestites who scrambled to a Goodwill store to be properly outfitted.

 

WorldNetDaily reported earlier this week on the smaller parade of at least two dozen homosexuals, some clad in tutus and grass skirts, who marched up Bourbon Street in New Orleans in defiance of Katrina's devastation.

 

 

Homosexuals celebrate on New Orleans' Bourbon Street Sunday afternoon (courtesy San Antonio Express-News)

 

 

"Hey, we've got to keep our morale up, too," Jill Sandars, aka "Jelly Sandwich," told the San Antonio Express-News.

 

One woman wore a shirt with a handwritten message, "I survived Hurricane Katrina and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."

 

New Orleans carpenter John Lambert had dressed up as a member of the Village People and carried a sign reading "Life Goes On?".

 

 

John Lambert carries 'Life Goes On?' sign in Sunday's parade on Bourbon Street (courtesy San Antonio Express-News)

 

 

He was confident the annual Mardi Gras festival would still take place next February in New Orleans' French Quarter.

 

"Mardi Gras is a brew, it's a gumbo. It's defined by what people bring to it," Lambert told the Associated Press. "There will definitely be a Mardi Gras. No doubt about it."

 

The celebrations amid the deaths, disease and destruction of Katrina boggle the mind of some, including former homosexual James Hartline.

 

"The idea that human beings are continuing to party while hundreds of thousands of fellow citizens are starving, dying and suffering from a multitude of sicknesses brings into focus the real lack of judgment that these constant advocates of special gay rights demonstrate in a time of crisis," Hartline said. "They want marriage, adoption and special protections, due to their alleged 'vicitimizations at the hands of unfair laws,' and yet the Southern Decadence partiers are the best examples of those who are truly victimizing the most vulnerable of America's citizenry."

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Gays are by nature very peaceful and light-hearted--that's why they were trying to cheer things up a bit in New Orleans! In the Kama-sastra it is stated that gay men who are effeminate show it by their "dress, speech, laughter, behavior, gentleness, lack of courage, silliness ('mugdha'), patience, and modesty." (KS 2.9.2)

 

Many cities in the U.S. are encouraging gays to move into their neighborhoods because they are known to improve the conditions and bring tourism.

 

In Vedic culture, people of the third sex were well known as symbols of good luck, fortune, peacefulness and social prosperity.

 

It is no coincidence that the gay neighborhoods in New Orleans were largely spared and will most likely be the first ones to recover and revive the city.

 

[theist]

Oh the book kama-sutra is now consider shastra by some? lol Not me.

 

 

It is no coincidence that the gay neighborhoods in New Orleans were largely spared and will most likely be the first ones to recover and revive the city.

 

 

Are you suggesting that Krishna gave special protection to the gay neighborhoods? The French Quarter was also spared and that is one of the most decadant spots on the planet.

 

So what does that prove other than kali-yuga is advancing.

 

[Guest guest]

Gays are valued members of a society. Perverts are not. There is a difference. Only those with open minds can see that there are gays that are not perverts (no more so than heteros, that is).

 

Closed minded folks who just want everyone except exact replicas of their own selves (no matter how lost they really acknowledge themselves to be) dead have a tendency to lump all into the same group. Such folks regard kirtanananda and jayananda as the same. Such folks see prabhupada and Rajneesh as the same. Same with the black issue, the gender issue, the political issues, etc.

 

FACT remains that I lived in a gay neighborhood in Long Beach California. In 1980. The women felt very safe there, the crime rate was many percentage points below the rest of the city, the neighborhood was immaculate, blacks and whites mingled freely, even the survivalists who lived there sat around at mutual parties attended by gays, blacks, gun-freaks (like me), single beautiful women who had no fear because of their beauty. And the music was great, and the gays were the first to join in when the gun freak played hare krsna on his guitar to the tune of "pat Garett and Billy the Kid".

 

aND ALAN GINZBERG, WHO WAS HAPPILY MARRIED FOR THIRTY YEARS WITH ONE OF THE SAME GENDER HELPED sRILA pRABHUPADA IMMENSE3LY IN STARTING THE SAMKIRTANA MOVEMENT IN THE WEST.

 

gAYS, YES, BUT DONT YOU PERVERTS AND namba FREAKS GO THINKING iM YOUR FRIEND, BECAUSE i WISH YOU WERE DEAD AS WELL.

 

(nOT yelling here, my finger slipped and hit the all caps button.

 

hare krsna ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

"aND ALAN GINZBERG, WHO WAS HAPPILY MARRIED FOR THIRTY YEARS WITH ONE OF THE SAME GENDER HELPED sRILA pRABHUPADA IMMENSE3LY IN STARTING THE SAMKIRTANA MOVEMENT IN THE WEST."

 

actually, he was a self confessed gay pedophile, one of the founders of North American Man-Boy Love Association, openly writing articles for their publications.

 

does his help with SP mission somehow legitimizes his abhorrent sexuality? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

[theist]

Prabhupäda: The hippies are nothing but a group of madmen, that's all. A madman, they..., means publicly sex, that's all. This Allen Ginsberg's movement is that, homosex, public sex. Ginsberg was very proud that he had introduced homosex. He was telling me.

 

Tamäla Krsna: He was telling you?

 

Prabhupäda: When he first came to me he was very proud: "I have introduced homosex." He thought very brilliant work it was....

[theist]

Post deleted by theist

[Kulapavana]

ew... there was no need for that...

[theist]

I deleted it. I had another one following of Ginsberg renouncing and taking sannyas, it was a two parter but I will spare you.

[Kulapavana]

thanks! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

from gross sense gratification to sannyas... oh, brother...

 

kooks will be kooks /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Srila Prabhupada would expertly use even such kooks in Krishna's service - for their benefit, and for the benefit of his Mission - and not become affected by their kookiness. however, we may not be so qualified.

[theist]

It was a picture of Ginsberg on a riverbank, in the same attire holding an eight foot staff. The guy was a trip. But all service rendered is eternal and for that respect is due. Krsna sorts it out.

[AncientMariner]

I heard on a talk show that Jack Kerouac was a football player at Yale and he met Alan Ginsberg who convinced him to become a pot smoking beat poet. Apparently later in his life Kerouac said that he was seduced by Ginsberg to become a hippy and it made him miserable and that he thought Ginsberg was the antichrist. Jack Kerouac even voted for Richard Nixon. The weirdy-beardie college professors only tell people the beat poet part of Kerouac's life and they leave the part out where it turns out Kerouac hated Ginsberg and ended up becoming a Republican.

[Kulapavana]

I just don't like it when devotees "use the Ginsberg card" because most of the time they have no idea what sort of a miserable creature this guy was...

[AncientMariner]

Yeah, I appreciate your objectivity on the manner instead of just towing the liberal line. It shows me you are truthful and objective and to me that is a great representation of what Prabhupada was all about and that is an impressive and rare thing to see in this world.

[stonehearted]

AM:

The weirdy-beardie college professors only tell people the beat poet part of Kerouac's life and they leave the part out where it turns out Kerouac hated Ginsberg and ended up becoming a Republican.

 

 

And some others forget that he ended up a Republican who was so goddamned miserable that he drank himself to death. I remember when Kerouac died, just a few weeks after I got out of the Navy.

 

I heard a six-hour tape recording of a conversation among Ginsburg, Leary, and Gary Snyder (whom I've met), recorded on Snyder's boat in 1967. The very first words spoken in this conversation were "Hare Krishna," and the first topic of conversation was "the Swami, whom they discussed for about 15 minutes.

[krsna]

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kulapavana]

"I appreciate your objectivity on the manner instead of just towing the liberal line"

 

thank you for your kind words. I'm a kshatriya by nature so the liberal line is naturally foreign to me /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

many devotees are quite naive and simplistic in their understanding of the world - they often have no idea how deep is the manipulation of consciousness in our society. It makes me sick when I see devotees thinking of crooks like Bush to be sura, or a godly person... or abominations like Ginsberg to be honorable men, worthy of our respect.

[stonehearted]

Kulapavana, you're probably more "liberal" in many ways than many would recognize, although the popular label doesn't fit you well. As a broadminded teacher, Srila Prabhupada was liberal enough that he could engage even someone like Ginsburg and create some sukriti in his life. Ginsburg's good fortune was that he had some appreciation for Srila Prabhupada's character and work and was willing to use his celebrity to help him in whatever ways he could, and that Srila Prabhupada is broadminded enough to be willing to engage such a person. The rest of Ginsburg's life should be of no interest to us because it has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness.

[Kulapavana]

"Ginsburg's good fortune was that he had some appreciation for Srila Prabhupada's character and work and was willing to use his celebrity to help him in whatever ways he could, and that Srila Prabhupada is broadminded enough to be willing to engage such a person. The rest of Ginsburg's life should be of no interest to us because it has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness."

-------------

 

not always. for example: when devotees say with some pride that someone like A.Ginsberg took interest in our movement, the entire life of that person becomes relevant