An Interesting Graph of Creation:Where are you and where do you want to go?

[krsna]

http://dharmakshetra.com/articles2/creation.html

[theist]

It says the universe is 4 billion miles wide at it's widest point. C'mon folks....

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

But then again what is 'space?' Every atom has Paramatma in it, everything that is expanded is from Paramatama. Scientists have got it right on one point, the Universe was created from one SINGLE point. And what is that point?! We already know, just need to let them know.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Hari Bol theist!

 

To understand how the universe seems infinite we can think about this comparison.

 

Let’s say the world is covered with water – completely covered – and there are some people in a boat – sailing the waters – now they have never flown – nor have they ever heard of flying – so as they go in their boat – their perception - is that their boat is - going on and on in an endless line – but in fact - they are sailing around the globe - again and again.

 

Similarly – in the hollow that is the universe – [even if you had a spacecraft that could travel there] one cannot reach the edge – one is always pulled in line with the curvature of the shell of the universe – on board the ship they see it as going on and on in an endless line – and indeed – inside the space ship - the journey would seem to be going ahead in a line – endlessly – when in fact – it is really round and round - inside the hollow of the universe – do you see?

 

The thing about these kinds of facts is this – we cannot verify these facts about space ourselves – whether these facts come from Vedas or science – you have to accept it on a kind of faith – whether the faith is reposed in science or the Vedas makes no difference to the fact that both choices require a measure of faith – now which to have faith in?

 

What has science reciprocated with you? What has Krishna and the Vedas reciprocated with you?

 

Actually - one should not discount either – it isn’t that science is wrong – it’s not that science is useless – it’s just currently misdirected. I hope this examples how space could seem infinite and not actually be.

 

[theist]

I didn't say anything about the universe being infinite. If you want to think of it as being only 4 billion miles across that's fine. But don't expect any astreonomers or even eductaed students to take you seriously and the tradgedy is they then may not listen when you describe how the self is separate from the body.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

From one end of the shape the distance is different from one side, and another is can be the same. Now add dimentions to this equation, you have a multi-dimentional shape that cannot be measured without knowing the science of 'dimentionals'. Do Scientists know this? And what if they did? I am not sure they could do anything withit anyway. They don't chant Hare Krishna.

[theist]

It is not presented in the SB as being extra dimentional, at least to my knowledge. It says 4 billion miles according to that graph. It is considerably bigger than that. All attempted explanations sound rather forced.

 

But by that as it may anyone is free to take it literally if they choose to. I don't. There is so much fantastic knowledge in the SB that I prefer to try to understand. I don't need to know this stuff anyway.

 

[Guest guest]

"Learned scholars who are free from mistakes, illusions and propensities to cheat have thus described the planetary systems and their particular symptoms, measurements and locations. With great deliberation, they have established the truth that the distance between Sumeru and the mountain known as Lokäloka is one fourth of the diameter of the universe—or, in other words, 125,000,000 yojanas [1 billion miles]." [sB 5.20.38]

 

So that is four billion.

 

You're right these so-called experts may not take serious other statements of the vedas based on these - of course the calculations of the size of the universe are from Bhagavatam - I do not pretend to have these the right answers - I only gave the example to demonstrate that as a matter of perception - bhagavatam may be right - of course the devotee who wrote a book about this says that fifth canto states the dimensions of the solar system.

 

Also - what about the moon - is what we call the moon - really rahu?

 

Also it's a moot point - we are stuck here in mahat tattava - and science will not help us end the transmigration of the soul.

[Guest guest]

My two cents...

 

Just like many many things in the SB, it seems the description of the universe is symbolic. I mean, 8 biillion miles - as Theist has said, this is thrown out of the window right away. There's just tooooooo much evidence to show that the universe is far bigger.

 

So how can you reconcile SB with science? I don't think you can, not if you take SB too literally. Lets look at those eight layers, for example: 5 elements + mind, itelligence, false ego. Does this not sound ominously like your own body? Or could it be that the universe really is enveloped by these 8 layers physically? Personally i think there's a deep symbolism here that we must strive to understand.

 

Having said this, i must admit something that is very appealing about this picture - it depicts the universe as curved! This is something scientists have only discovered relatively recently. So obviously Krsna has implanted some knowledge there for us - something for us to discover.

 

Whether this will help us Love and Serve Him more, i don't know. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

G.

[theist]

 

we are stuck here in mahat tattava - and science will not help us end the transmigration of the soul.

 

 

For instance science is offering us many ways to see the body is not the self. It all depends on how we hear it. I suspect scientific understanding is like another form of scripture to the Krsna conscious soul.

 

[som]

Meaning that everyone sees the world and everything in this world in accordance with his/her own experiences.

 

 

[krsna]

 

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[theist]

I think we are in the medium sized one on the lower left. But I may be speculating. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[krsna]

 

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