Jiva-tattva Within Iskcon

[Guest guest]

 

I see a big difference. The point is there is no past or future in the spiritual world. This subject cannot be understood by thinking sequentially. Because of the fact that there is no time conditioning there we can say no one ever falls.

 

If you dream that you are falling into a fiery volcano does that mean you are? When you wake up you see that you never left your bedroom and are thankful that it "was only a scarey dream."

 

I am convinced that we have to catch this by inspired intuition and not by mental speculation.

 

Semantics aside.. do you believe that once we RETURN BACK HOME TO GODHEAD, we can once again fall into this nightmarish dream? Say it aint possible?

[gHari]

How perfect do we have to be to get into Vaikuntha permanently? If not absolutely perfect, then do we lose our independence or does Krsna complete our perfection somehow?

 

Did we ever figure out what happens to the body and service of a manjari who comes to act as guru?

[Kulapavana]

 

If such a misconception is the ISKCON position, then so be it, but if the ISKCON position cannot be supported with shastra then really the ISKCON position is no position at all.

 

ISKCON official position on that issue (jivas fall from spiritual planets, not from the shore of Viraja river in Brahman) is a desperate attempt to reconcile often conflicting statements that SP made on this subject. Too bad that position is NOT consistent with the shastra or previous Vaishnava acharyas. But I know many Iskcon devotees who privately reject that official position on the origin of jiva because it does not make any sense to them.

[Guest guest]

 

If you dream that you are falling into a fiery volcano does that mean you are? When you wake up you see that you never left your bedroom and are thankful that it "was only a scarey dream."

 

If the residents of Goloka are cent percent Krsna Conscious, then it only stands to reason that their dreams are also cent percent Krsna Conscious. They experience loving, blissful dreams about Krsna and His name, form, qualites, and pastimes. They do not forget Krsna even for a moment, even while dreaming. They do not have hellish, nightmarish dreams where they spend trillions of births in the realm of maha maya, suffering in horrific, unimaginable ways.

 

 

I am convinced that we have to catch this by inspired intuition and not by mental speculation.

Yes, inspired intuition based on Sastra, Guru, and Sadhu. Agreed, let's leave the mental speculation behind. Just as time is conspicuous by its absence in Goloka, so also are envy and ignorance (as well as all other symptoms of maha maya.) There is not even a trace of maha maya in Goloka, therefore, no room for envy or forgetfulness of Krsna (even while dreaming.)

 

Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge... ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy-are completely absent. (Cc. Madhya 5.22, purp.)

[gHari]

"There is not even a trace of maha maya in Goloka, therefore, no room for envy or forgetfulness of Krsna (even while dreaming.)"

 

Ooops, there's that nonsense supposition again. Ain't no maya in Brahmajyoti either.

 

Why not pick a number, Guest, that we may know which Guest you are. It's so impersonal otherwise. And you are our friend - aren't you? BTW, the anger simply comes across as arrogance. Be not attached to either side of the paradox, for neither may be totally correct without the other - like bheda and abheda.

[Guest guest]

 

"There is not even a trace of maha maya in Goloka, therefore, no room for envy or forgetfulness of Krsna (even while dreaming.)"

 

Ooops, there's that nonsense supposition again.

 

Nonsense? Wow. So, you reject Srila Prabhupada's words and the Vedic Scriptures as nonsense suppositions?

 

 

Why not pick a number, Guest, that we may know which Guest you are. It's so impersonal otherwise.

 

Guest 3B? You know, that impersonalism cuts both ways. Shame you can't see it.

 

 

And you are our friend - aren't you?

 

I thought so. I certainly wasn't attacking anyone, only addressing points in a calm, collected manner. How about you, are you our friend? Or are you now on one of your patented "adrenalin rushes."

 

Anyway, I now know where you stand on the issue of jiva tattva and it's more than obvious that it would be futile to discuss this issue with you further. In fact, I haven't discussed this issue with you at all, to the best of my knowledge. I addressed a couple of points which Theist raised. I think he can speak for himself when he's ready.

 

Sincerely,

guest3b

[Guest guest]

 

BTW, the anger simply comes across as arrogance.

 

I noticed after I posted that you edited this comment into your post.

 

All I can say is, wow. I was not angry in the least in addressing Theist's points. You are simply projecting. A classic example of fault-finding, and really seeing only the faults in yourself.

 

sincerely,

guest3b

[Guest guest]

The problem is that in a forum, because people are not really looking at each other, it's easy to mistake one's tone and infer that he or she is angry/disrespectful etc while making a post. We should all just be a little more tolerant ... trnad api sunicena ...

 

By the way, not directing this at you. It's just a general comment.

 

 

I noticed after I posted that you edited this comment into your post.

 

All I can say is, wow. I was not angry in the least in addressing Theist's points. You are simply projecting. A classic example of fault-finding, and really seeing only the faults in yourself.

 

sincerely,

guest3b

[gHari]

I very much doubt you know where I stand on jiva tattva. Simply more arrogance.

[theist]

 

Semantics aside.. do you believe that once we RETURN BACK HOME TO GODHEAD, we can once again fall into this nightmarish dream? Say it aint possible?

 

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is semantics.

 

I have nothing new to add. We have to go there to find the answer. Once there you will still have the free will to stay or come back.

 

*Do you want to know a secret about your doubt and why you have it? You are intelligent to know that if you continue on this Krsna consciousness path you will end up fully sold out to love for Krsna. It will consume you and rule your life. That seems like final death to you. But it is not of course. It is however final death to your false ego which at the present time you consider to be yourself. You are afraid of death, non existence,of what you consider to be the endless void, for (and it's true) that the extinquishing of the free will of the jiva is the DEATH OF THAT JIVA. The free will is integral to your very being. it is the boundary line that marks your self from another self including the Supreme Self. Without it activated you are just sitting in the brahmajyoti.

 

It is that free excercise of the surrender of the free will through dovetailing with the will of Supreme Lord that is the basis, the foundation of love. And it continues to be even in the full fledge Prema Bhakta.

 

Otherwise why would Krsna even excercise a material energy to form all these universes? Why would He not just start everyone off in the spiritual varigetiness with no chance of leaving? The answer is because because He is not so insecure and lacking in Self esteem that He must try and force love. He allows us to follow our own dreams until we become exhausted at their ineventable failure after failure. We must become thoughoughly exhausted of our material dreams.

 

Then we break down in earnest and begin our our search for Sri Krsna.

 

Best use of the activated free will is the responsibility the jiva has for maintaining an existence as an individual. Otherwise we may as well go take a nap in the Brahman effulgence.

 

 

*How do I know this about you? Because I have long ago seen the very same thing within myself. I have that same ahankara and fear of extinction in my own life today. By recognizing this I haven't cured it,...just all my other feeble excuses have been stripped away. I have no need for them after seeing through them. I am excruciatingly slow in Krsna consciousness because I fear going forward. I don't love Krsna because I don't want to. I don't practice a nice regulated sadhana because I don't want to. No more pathetic made up excuses.

 

In fact I am not trying to go forward at all. I am just trying to tread water and remain where I am. The wonderful thing is that by nature Krsna is the ultimate force of attraction. Like a secret rip current that pulls us in a certain direction even while we think we are maintaining our space in the water.

 

ps please add an identifier to you rname as guest. Not to do so after the first post or so is rude.

[Guest guest]

 

I very much doubt you know where I stand on jiva tattva.

 

I may not know your *exact* stance, (it does seem to waver from day to day), but I think you've written enough on these forums to give one a pretty good idea. Even your lone comment: "nonsense supposition" wherein I stated (based on Sastra) that mahamaya does not exist in Goloka, speaks volumes.

 

 

Simply more arrogance.

 

Where is all this hostility coming from, ghari? It is quite unbecoming. I sure don't see how you got it from my original post. You are simply resorting to unprovoked personal attacks. Possibly you have me confused with someone else? For that, I can cut you a little slack. Before my reply to Theist this morning, I had only made 1 post, total, in all 3 of these "jiva fall" threads. Anyway, I respected your request to distinguish myself from all the other guests, and now I'm rewarded with further unfriendliness and impersonalism? I think guest's appeal above (to practice trnad api sunicena) is good advice, and should apply to everyone, members and guests alike. Why continue like this? A lot of people read your posts, as you are quite prominent here. You don't care what they think when you go into these irrational tirades?

 

Sincerely,

guest3b

[gHari]

GOING BACK TO SOMEWHERE WE COULDN'T LEAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE

MORE PARADOX

 

Going 'back home' is found 721 times in the Vedabase. Here is a sampling:

 

SB 2.2.21 akuNTha--back home, back to Godhead; ..... Herein akuNTha-dRSTiH is mentioned. AkuNTha and vaikuNTha convey the same import, and only one who has his aim fixed upon that spiritual world and personal association with the Godhead can give up his material connections even while living in the material world. This param and the paraM dhAma mentioned in several places in the Bhagavad-gItA are one and the same thing. One who goes to the paraM dhAma does not return to the material world. This freedom is not possible even by reaching the topmost loka of the material world.

 

SB 1.4.12p Therefore the king's interest is to guide all subjects back to the kingdom of God. Hence the activities of the citizens should be so coordinated that they can at the end go back home, back to Godhead.

 

SB 1.12.27p Devotional service to the Lord, while existing in the material world, is a way to practice one's transcendental relation with the Lord, and when it is matured, one gets completely free from all material attachment and becomes competent to go back home, back to Godhead.

 

SB 1.15.41p All is manifested by the temporary embodiment of the material body, which is a production of the mind at the time of death, and if the mind is purified by practice of transcendental loving service to the Lord and is constantly engaged in the service of the lotus feet of the Lord, there is no more chance of the mind's producing another material body after death. It will be freed from absorption in material contamination. The pure soul will be able to return home, back to Godhead.

 

SB 1.15.32 Upon hearing of Lord KRSNa's returning to His abode, and upon understanding the end of the Yadu dynasty's earthly manifestation, MahArAja YudhiSThira decided to go back home, back to Godhead.

 

SB 1.15.50p Similarly, at the end of life, when one has to go back home, back to Godhead, everyone has to take care of himself without help rendered by another.

 

SB 2.1.1p For instance, in the Bhagavad-gItA it is stated that simply by understanding the transcendental nature of Lord KRSNa's appearance, disappearance, and activities, one can immediately return home, back to Godhead, and never come back to this miserable condition of material existence. It is very auspicious, therefore, to hear always about KRSNa.

 

SB 2.2.2p The real happiness is in the kingdom of God, where no one has to undergo the pangs of material existence. Therefore, the Vedic ways of fruitive activities for the living entities are misleading. One thinks of a superior way of life in this country or that, or on this planet or another, but nowhere in the material world can he fulfill his real desire of life, namely eternal life, full intelligence and complete bliss. Indirectly, SrIla Sukadeva GosvAmI affirms that MahArAja ParIkSit, in the last stage of life, should not desire to transfer himself to the so-called heavenly planets, but should prepare himself for going back home, back to Godhead.

 

SB 2.7.30p Whoever knows the superhuman activities of the Lord, due to their very transcendental nature, becomes eligible to enter the kingdom of KRSNa, and as such, after quitting this present material body, the knower of the transcendental activities of the Lord goes back home, back to Godhead.

 

"Back to Godhead" appears 2,907 times in the Vedabase. .

[Guest guest]

For those who think (concoct) that the jivas desire to enjoy separately from Krsna and then fall from Vaikuntha into the brahmajyoti, as if the brahmajyoti is so kind of way station:

"As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence. Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses. The desire for lordship is the material disease of the living being, for under the spell of sense enjoyment he transmigrates through the various bodies manifested in the material world. Becoming one with the brahmajyoti does not represent mature knowledge. Only by surrendering unto the Lord completely and developing one's sense of spiritual service does one reach the highest perfectional stage." BV Purport Sri Isopnisad Verse 17

"As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence. Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses. So which living entities desire to enjoy their senses? The living entities that are spiritual sparks in the bhahmajyoti!

[Guest guest]

The conclusion [re Jaya-Vijaya] is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

 

... they never fall into the material world. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)

 

From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)

 

The question is that, why the living entity falls down? It is not falls down. Just like Jaya-Vijaya came just to satisfy his master. His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy." (720405SB.MEL)

 

Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)

 

In the spiritual world... inhabitants...They're aksara. They do not fall down. Ksara aksara. We are ksaras. We have fallen down in this material world. But there are devotees in the spiritual world, in the Vaikunthaloka, they never come down. Never come down in this material world, but they are also persons like us, but eternal persons, with full knowledge and life of blissfulness. That is the difference between them and us. (741105SB.BOM)

[gHari]

Words like never, eternally, forever are often taken for granted, as though we can really comprehend their meanings.

 

Let us divide 100 billion by infinity. That is how long our current conditioned life has lasted as compared to eternity.

 

We will live forever. We are unborn. Yet somehow in the middle of forever we find ourselves here ... but this will never ever happen again throughout all of the rest of forever. What are the odds?! Infinity to one?

 

I have to assume that when Srila Prabhupada says it is round and it is triangular, that he is describing a cone ---- not that he is playing games with my head. I have to assume that when Srila Bhaktivinoda talks of a big fish swimming from one side of a river to the other, that indeed it can swim back like any normal fish can. When he says that the water on the shore sometimes covers the edge and sometimes withdraws that he means forever the shoreline will swell and withdraw.

 

Mathematically it just makes more sense. It is certainly no proof, but perhaps it is reason to look at the definition of 'never' as applied in eternity.

 

Psychologically I too would like to be free forever, but somehow I don't feel I can ever be as pure as Sri Krsna, that I can be so pure that I will never ever daydream there throughout all of forever. Who can be so qualified?

[gHari]

<center>Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.71

 

supti-mUrcchopatApeSu

prANAyana-vighAtataH

nehate 'ham iti jJAnaM

mRtyu-prajvArayor api

</center>

supti--in deep sleep; mUrccha--fainting; upatApeSu--or in great shock; prANa-ayana--of the movement of the life air; vighAtataH--from prevention; na--not; Ihate--thinks of; aham--I; iti--thus; jJAnam--knowledge; mRtyu--while dying; prajvArayoH--or during high fever; api--also.

 

When the living entity is in deep sleep, when he faints, when there is some great shock on account of severe loss, at the time of death, or when the body temperature is very high, the movement of the life air is arrested. At that time the living entity loses knowledge of identifying the body with the self.

 

PURPORT

Foolish people deny the existence of the soul, but it is a fact that when we sleep we forget the identity of the material body and when we awake we forget the identity of the subtle body. In other words, while sleeping we forget the activities of the gross body, and when active in the gross body we forget the activities of sleeping. Actually both states--sleeping and waking--are creations of the illusory energy. The living entity actually has no connection with either the activities of sleep or the activities of the so-called wakened state. When a person is in deep sleep or when he has fainted, he forgets his gross body. Similarly, under chloroform or some other anesthetic, the living entity forgets his gross body and does not feel pain or pleasure during a surgical operation. Similarly, when a man is suddenly shocked by some great loss, he forgets his identification with the gross body. At the time of death, when the temperature of the body rises to 107 degrees, the living entity falls into a coma and is unable to identify his gross body. In such cases, the life air that moves within the body is choked up, and the living entity forgets his identification with the gross body. Because of our ignorance of the spiritual body, of which we have no experience, we do not know of the activities of the spiritual body, and in ignorance we jump from one false platform to another. We act sometimes in relation to the gross body and sometimes in relation to the subtle body. If, by KRSNa's grace, we act in our spiritual body, we can transcend both the gross and subtle bodies. In other words, we can gradually train ourselves to act in terms of the spiritual body. As stated in the NArada-paJcarAtra, hRSIkeNa hRSIkeza-sevanaM bhaktir ucyate: [Cc. Madhya 19.170] devotional service means engaging the spiritual body and spiritual senses in the service of the Lord. When we are engaged in such activities, the actions and reactions of the gross and subtle bodies cease.

 

 

Bhagavad-gita 15.7 purport

[..] It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by the material body, with the mind and the senses, and when he is liberated this material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests itself in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the MAdhyandinAyana-zruti: sa vA eSa brahma-niSTha idaM zarIraM martyam atisRjya brahmAbhisampadya brahmaNA pazyati brahmaNA zRNoti brahmaNaivedaM sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is.

 

Excerpt from RAja-VidyA (King of Knowledge) Chapter 6

In the very beginning of Bhagavad-gItA, in the Second Chapter, KRSNa explains that what we accept as birth and death is due to the body, and as soon as we regain our spiritual body and get out of the contamination of birth and death, we should be qualitatively as good as KRSNa. That is the whole process of KRSNa consciousness--the revival of our original sac-cid-Ananda spiritual body. That body is eternal (sat), full of knowledge (cit), and blissful (Ananda).

[theist]

No more to say on this one. I'll leave with this quote from one of gHari's posts above for contemplation.

 

 

"There is not even a trace of maha maya in Goloka, therefore, no room for envy or forgetfulness of Krsna (even while dreaming.)"

 

Ooops, there's that nonsense supposition again. Ain't no maya in Brahmajyoti either.

 

"(Wh)ooops... there it is!" Chuckle chuckle chuckle

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Bhagavad-gita 15.7 purport

[..] It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by the material body, with the mind and the senses, and when he is liberated this material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests itself in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the MAdhyandinAyana-zruti: sa vA eSa brahma-niSTha idaM zarIraM martyam atisRjya brahmAbhisampadya brahmaNA pazyati brahmaNA zRNoti brahmaNaivedaM sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is.

 

Excerpt from RAja-VidyA (King of Knowledge) Chapter 6

In the very beginning of Bhagavad-gItA, in the Second Chapter, KRSNa explains that what we accept as birth and death is due to the body, and as soon as we regain our spiritual body and get out of the contamination of birth and death, we should be qualitatively as good as KRSNa. That is the whole process of KRSNa consciousness--the revival of our original sac-cid-Ananda spiritual body. That body is eternal (sat), full of knowledge (cit), and blissful (Ananda).

 

I once heard an elder ISKCON Godbrother explain that the idea of reviving the spiritual body means that inherintly in our soul is the SEED of our spiritual body.

REVIVING the spiritual body means to sprout and manifest the spiritual body that was originally constituted in our soul but not actually manifested.

 

this was back during the time of srila Prabhupada, so I accepted that as the explanation that Srila Prabhupada had given.

 

So, to say that we already have a spiritually body but have lost that is not incongruent with the NO-FALL version.

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.6.7

 

sa vai viśva-sṛjāḿ garbho

 

deva-karmātma-śaktimān

 

vibabhājātmanātmānam

 

ekadhā daśadhā tridhā

 

SYNONYMS

 

saḥ — that; vai — certainly; viśva-sṛjām — of the gigantic virāṭ form; garbhaḥ — total energy; deva — living energy; karma — activity of life; ātma — self; śaktimān — full with potencies; vibabhāja — divided; ātmanā — by Himself; ātmānam — Himself; ekadhā — in oneness; daśadhā — in ten; tridhā — and in three.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The total energy of the mahat-tattva, in the form of the gigantic virāṭ-rūpa, divided Himself by Himself into the consciousness of the living entities, the life of activity, and self-identification, which are subdivided into one, ten and three respectively.

 

PURPORT

 

Consciousness is the sign of the living entity, or the soul. The existence of the soul is manifest in the form of consciousness, called jñāna-śakti. The total consciousness is that of the gigantic virāṭ-rūpa, and the same consciousness is exhibited in individual persons. The activity of consciousness is performed through the air of life, which is of ten divisions. The airs of life are called prāṇa, apāna, udāna, vyāna and samāna and are also differently qualified as nāga, kūrma, kṛkara, devadatta and dhanañjaya. The consciousness of the soul becomes polluted by the material atmosphere, and thus various activities are exhibited in the false ego of bodily identification. These various activities are described in Bhagavad-gītā (2.41) as bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām. The conditioned soul is bewildered into various activities for want of pure consciousness. In pure consciousness the activity is one. The consciousness of the individual soul becomes one with the supreme consciousness when there is complete synthesis between the two.

 

The monist believes that there is only one consciousness, whereas the sātvatas, or the devotees, believe that although there is undoubtedly one consciousness, they are one because there is agreement. The individual consciousness is advised to dovetail with the supreme consciousness, as instructed by the Lord in Bhagavad-gītā (18.66): sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja. The individual consciousness (Arjuna) is advised to dovetail with the supreme consciousness and thus maintain his conscious purity. It is foolish to try to stop the activities of consciousness, but they can be purified when they are dovetailed with the Supreme. This consciousness is divided into three modes of self-identification according to the proportion of purity: ādhyātmika, or self-identification with the body and mind, ādhibhautika, or self-identification with the material products, and ādhidaivika, or self-identification as a servant of the Lord. Of the three, ādhidaivika self-identification is the beginning of purity of consciousness in pursuance of the desire of the Lord.

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.6.8

 

eṣa hy aśeṣa-sattvānām

 

ātmāḿśaḥ paramātmanaḥ

 

ādyo 'vatāro yatrāsau

 

bhūta-grāmo vibhāvyate

 

SYNONYMS

 

eṣaḥ — this; hi — certainly; aśeṣa — unlimited; sattvānām — living entities; ātmā — Self; aḿśaḥ — part; parama-ātmanaḥ — of the Supersoul; ādyaḥ — the first; avatāraḥ — incarnation; yatra — whereupon; asau — all those; bhūta-grāmaḥ — the aggregate creations; vibhāvyate — flourish.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The gigantic universal form of the Supreme Lord is the first incarnation and plenary portion of the Supersoul. He is the Self of an unlimited number of living entities, and in Him rests the aggregate creation, which thus flourishes.

 

PURPORT

 

The Supreme Lord expands Himself in two ways, by personal plenary expansions and separated minute expansions. The personal plenary expansions are viṣṇu-tattvas, and the separated expansions are living entities. Since the living entities are very small, they are sometimes described as the marginal energy of the Lord. But the mystic yogīs consider the living entities and the Supersoul, Paramātmā, to be one and the same. It is, however, a minor point of controversy; after all, everything created rests on the gigantic virāṭ or universal form of the Lord.

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.6.26

 

sattvaḿ cāsya vinirbhinnaḿ

 

mahān dhiṣṇyam upāviśat

 

cittenāḿśena yenāsau

 

vijñānaḿ pratipadyate

 

SYNONYMS

 

sattvam — consciousness; ca — also; asya — of the gigantic form; vinirbhinnam — being separately manifested; mahān — the total energy, mahat-tattva; dhiṣṇyam — with control; upāviśat — entered into; cittena aḿśena — along with His part of consciousness; yena — by which; asau — the living entity; vijñānam — specific knowledge; pratipadyate — cultivates.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Thereafter, when His consciousness separately manifested itself, the total energy, mahat-tattva, entered with His conscious part. Thus the living entity is able to conceive specific knowledge.

 

<<>

[gHari]

Someone? tried to say that because maha maya was not present the jiva could not forget, but then how could the jiva forget in the brahmajyoti if indeed mahamaya is not there either? The logic that you have to be in maya before you can forget was therefore not valid. First forget, then maya comes. It is we who are at fault, not maya or any other agent outside our self.

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.6.3

 

so 'nupraviṣṭo bhagavāḿś

 

ceṣṭārūpeṇa taḿ gaṇam

 

bhinnaḿ saḿyojayām āsa

 

suptaḿ karma prabodhayan

 

SYNONYMS

 

saḥ — that; anupraviṣṭaḥ — thus entering later on; bhagavān — the Personality of Godhead; ceṣṭā-rūpeṇa — by His representation of attempt, Kālī; tam — them; gaṇam — all the living entities, including the demigods; bhinnam — separately; saḿyojayām āsa — engaged to work; suptam — sleeping; karma — work; prabodhayan — enlightening.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Thus when the Personality of Godhead entered into the elements by His energy, all the living entities were enlivened into different activities, just as one is engaged in his work after awakening from sleep.

 

PURPORT

 

Every individual soul remains unconscious after the dissolution of the creation and thus enters into the Lord with His material energy. These individual living entities are conditioned souls everlastingly, but in each and every material creation they are given a chance to liberate themselves and become free souls. They are all given a chance to take advantage of the Vedic wisdom and find out what is their relationship with the Supreme Lord, how they can be liberated, and what the ultimate profit is in such liberation. By properly studying the Vedas one becomes conscious of his position and thus takes to the transcendental devotional service of the Lord and is gradually promoted to the spiritual sky. The individual souls in the material world engage in different activities according to their past unfinished desires. After the dissolution of a particular body, the individual soul forgets everything, but the all-merciful Lord, who is situated in everyone's heart as the witness, the Supersoul, awakens him and reminds him of his past desires, and thus he begins to act accordingly in his next life. This unseen guidance is described as fate, and a sensible man can understand that this continues his material bondage in the three modes of nature.

 

The unconscious sleeping stage of the living entity just after the partial or total dissolution of the creation is wrongly accepted as the final stage of life by some less intelligent philosophers. After the dissolution of the partial material body, a living entity remains unconscious for only a few months, and after the total dissolution of the material creation, he remains unconscious for many millions of years. But when the creation is again revived, he is awakened to his work by the Lord. The living entity is eternal, and the wakeful state of his consciousness, manifested by activities, is his natural condition of life. He cannot stop acting while awake, and thus he acts according to his diverse desires. When his desires are trained in the transcendental service of the Lord, his life becomes perfect, and he is promoted to the spiritual sky to enjoy eternal awakened life.