Varnasrama in ISKCON: When and How is it going to Happen?

[Kulapavana]

"The brahmanas are afraid of exposure and loss of their usurped(seized and held by force) positions. What say you?"

 

mostly, they are not really brahmanas. they are brahmana wanabee vaishyas and sudras, and it shows by their poor understanding of our Guru's instructions. true brahmanas are rare, and in our movement they are usually the scholarly types.

[Kulapavana]

Bhakti Raghava Swami is trying to do the right thing. I have some contact with him and he wants me to help him with his varnasrama projects. too bad my time is so limited or I would jump on the opportunity. being critical is easy, but we need to put our effort into improving the situation by practical actions too.

[Guest guest]

I admit to not knowing this swami personally, but I have known many others to this day and my critic would apply generaly. His rightings do show very subtle negation of varna replaced by asrama. Also it is his project. Does he give it to you?

In the story of Lord Rama when He comes back to Ayodhya after killing Ravana, He enters the city and prepares to meet with the brahmanas. Mother Sita the Lord go before the brahmanas dressed as mendicants with no royal apulence. Lord Ramachandra has given everything to the brahmans, land, wealth, in totality. The brahmans in turn give all of the oppulance back and tell the Lord that they do not want the responseibility of management nor the royal kingdom, it is unsutible for them. Only what they need to sustain themselves. The kingdom is all for the King, not brahmans. Paraphrased ofcource, SB.9.11.5 purport.

If you work for somone on their project, it is not yours. It is theirs. This is not the manner in which to serve the brahmins, this is not varna cooperation. Read this chapter.

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

[Guest guest]

Guest:"you will build varnashrama... when you will stop to think to build varnashrama"

perhaps that's why SP said that 50% of his mission is not finished. such ignorance like above is common among devotees.

--prabhupada basically said that his mission was not finished because at his times the majority of devotees were brahmachary and sannyasi. Prabhupada adviced the people who were fit for it, to make rural communities (that is not four varnas, but basically one varna), wanted simply to preach krsna consciousness to everyone without perverting their social position

 

"the varnas are there" - not really. there are people with certain tendencies, but such people need to be properly trained in the ways of their varna

--by who? by some iskcon committee? where's prabhupada's instruction about it? wich present mahabhagavata gaudya vaishnava advices like that? Let us spread krsna consciousness, the necessity of surrendering in early age to a uttama adhikari guru, then everything will grow up without useless effort

 

you think that being a devotee automatically makes that person a brahmana in the varnasrama sense?

--i am not enough foolish

 

your theory about prabhupada's idea of varnashrama is your entire interpretation..... or you are initiated and taught in this way by a pure uttama bhakta gaudya vaishnava?

[krsna]

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/11/17/17/en2

[krsna]

http://varnashrama-21st-century.blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

 

You say: "Guest:"you will build varnashrama... when you will stop to think to build varnashrama"

perhaps that's why SP said that 50% of his mission is not finished. such ignorance like above is common among devotees."

 

What? Don't think to do the instruction of Guru and you will accomplish the instruction? Come on, where is such a concept in Prabhupada's vani? 50% of the mission is not finished because Daivi-Varnasrama-Dharma is part of the total mission.

 

 

You say: "--prabhupada basically said that his mission was not finished because at his times the majority of devotees were brahmachary and sannyasi. Prabhupada adviced the people who were fit for it, to make rural communities (that is not four varnas, but basically one varna), wanted simply to preach krsna consciousness to everyone without perverting their social position"

 

This is almost incomrehensible. All speculative, without evedence. There were more married devotees than not. He said to do this DVD in ISKCON because of bad GBC management and contiual fall down of the highest varna and asrama. Read the conversations on March 14 1974. The rest should be retracted.

 

You say: "the varnas are there" - not really. there are people with certain tendencies, but such people need to be properly trained in the ways of their varna

--by who? by some iskcon committee? where's prabhupada's instruction about it? wich present mahabhagavata gaudya vaishnava advices like that? Let us spread krsna consciousness, the necessity of surrendering in early age to a uttama adhikari guru, then everything will grow up without useless effort

 

Sudra is now availible is great numbers. Vaisha? some. Ksatriya leadership? very small numbers. Brahminical representation in the mood of Srila Prabhupada's vani on the subject, I see missing. I have a high standard as discribed by Prabhupada in his books. As much for the ksatriya also. These two varnas must function as discribed(for the most part) Ofcourse it is to be understood that we are in the flegdling stage and some practicality must be interjected in order to continue. Srila Prabhupada is still availible to train any who seak Him through his Vani and those that accept Him in their hearts. The idea of KC as usual and "everything will grow up without useless effort" is head is the sand philosophy. Nothing has grown in 31 years, only laterally and backwards. ISKCON is in a perpecual state of arrested momentum in the exicution of Srila Prabhupada's guidence.

 

Yuo say: "you think that being a devotee automatically makes that person a brahmana in the varnasrama sense?

--i am not enough foolish"

 

Yes, well said!

 

You say: "your theory about prabhupada's idea of varnashrama is your entire interpretation..... or you are initiated and taught in this way by a pure uttama bhakta gaudya vaishnava?"

 

Is this sarcasm? Or are you belittling in a general way todays gaudya gurus?

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

[Guest guest]

Problem is that the name only brahmanas fear those with these qualities. Then the congrigation rejects on there advice. And around and around we go!

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

[Guest guest]

This person has previously stated that Srila Prabhupada is dead, can not be accessed. "If you do not belive that write Prabhupada a letter and see if He replies" are his very words. How can such a mentality give guidance as to the Guru's living vani? The Guru(Srila Prabhupada) lives in the hearts and minds of His devotees. Prabhupada will live forever in His books and speaches.

[protectacow]

We feel that we CAN associate with Srila Prabhupada still, as he indicated to all. And we also feel that he is our Brahmana, and our Sanyasi order. We fill in the other Varnas and Ashramas. So it is complete! And no falsities=best of all!

 

Krsna Prabhu, (i am directing this to the Krsna Prabhu of Audarya Fellowship Fame) i get the feeling that you know me, i appreciate your post, and thread starting style. Do i know you? Please send email to me, if you have time. Who are you? This email is for these types of places, to keep the Internet Bots from my real email name.... muktavandya@hotmail.com or send it to my name just as you spelled it in the post at the top of this page w/hotmail.com (i hope you could do so)