Why are there no ISKCON temples in Saudi Arabia???

[krsna]

 

Prabhupada: When there will be military march of Krsna conscious soldiers. Anyone who does not believe in Krsna, "Blam!" (laughter) Yes. The same process as the Mohammedans did, with sword and Koran, we'll have to do that. "Do you believe in Krsna or not?No, sir.Blam!" Finished. (laughter, Prabhupada laughs) ....Vrndavana, March 15, 1974

so... how tolerant, do you think, would be a state ruled by Iskcon? better or worse than Saudi Arabia?

That is the question: would ISKCON in the new Vedic world order (aka Varnasrama) be a Taliban-sort of organization where there would be a vice police to see who is following the 4 regs, chanting 16 rounds, offering bhoga ,etc...????

[Kulapavana]

yes, blind fundamentalism is dangerous in every religion. That is why the Vedic states were ruled by the kshatriya kings, and not by brahmana sannyasis. it was NOT a theocracy.

[krsna]

 

yes, blind fundamentalism is dangerous in every religion. That is why the Vedic states were ruled by the kshatriya kings, and not by brahmana sannyasis. it was NOT a theocracy.

 

Cities And Regions Since

 

 

--

BY P.N.OAK

 

— The Unified field theory of Physics is well-known. It co-relates all energy forces to a common source. It is my contention that history and archaeology too need to be traced to a single starting point. Currently historical and archaeological studies form a confused medley. We talk of Aryans, Dravidians in India and Druids in Europe, Hittite, Mittani, Phoenicians, Scythians, Sryians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Mongolians, Semetics, Etruscans, Judaists etc. without correlating them. Another glaring drawback in current historical studies is that countries turned Christian are unaware of their pre-Christian history. That is to say they are conscious only of a 1000 to 1500 years of their history though humanity has been on this globe for multi-million years. Likewise regions where Islam holds a full sway draw a complete blank of their pre-Mohammad history. That is to say they are taught an history of only a 1000 to 1370 years.

 

Since during the last millennium it was the European Christians and West Asian Muslims who controlled world affairs, they confusedly referred to the various ancient communities mentioned above as indistinct, incoherent echoes of a deleted past which need not be taken seriously. That a multi-million year stretch of human history has been merrily written off and only the fag-end of 1300 to 1600 years of history is allowed to masquerade as a substitute is a great academic tragedy. Even that truncated bit of history has been trimmed and twisted to suit the needs and moods of Christian and Muslim fundamentalists. For instance, all spectacular buildings such as Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, Cardoba's so-called mosque and Alhambra in Spain, even the Kaaba in Mecca, the Shah-i-zind monuments and the so-called Tamerlain mausoleum in Russia, the Ghazni Tower in Afghanistan and the Tajmahal etc. in India are all captured pre-Islamic property. A whole false concept of Islamic architecture has been formulated on the assumption that those edificed were built by Muslim invaders. It is conveniently forgotten that intruders do not invade to build but to occupy and lord it over in ready mansions and palaces.

 

Islamic graffiti scrawled on captured buildings and cenotaphs raised inside them misled scholars into misbelieving those edifices to be muslim. Scholars of so-called Islamic, Saracenic or Mogul architecture who are holding high positions in colleges, universities and museums have never even cared to ascertain whether Muslims ever had any architectural texts or schools of architecture or a hereditary tradition of builders. What is more surprising is that Muslims do not have any units of measurement of their own such as the inch, foot and yard. In Muslim desert lands distances are mentioned from one water-hole to another.

 

The traditions and terminology of Islam are all Vedic, Sanskrit. That is not surprising since 1370 years ago there was no Islam. Take the term Islam itself. That is the Sanskrit term "Ishalayam" meaning the Temple of God viz. The Kaaba which housed 360 icons of Vedic deities. Mohammad was born in 570 A.D. He proclaimed Islam in 622 A.D and died in 632 A.D. That is to say out of a span of 62 years, Mohammad himself was a muslim for the last 10 years. For the earlier 52 years he was a non-muslim. Since Muslim literacy is confined largely of reading the Koran, there could be a number of questions regarding Islam itself which even so-called muslim scholars may not be able to answer, such as:

 

1.No Arab before prophet Mohammad was named Mohammad. That is to say Mohammad is not an Arabic name. How then did the prophet get the name ? 2.Why does the Muslim era originate in the inconspicuous, inglorious retreat of Mohammad from Mecca instead of in some other conspicuous, auspicious event such as his birth, or the day of his victorious return to Mecca, or the day he proclaimed Islam or the day he died ? 3.The word Musalman does not figure in the Koran; why then are the Mohammedians known as Musalmans ?

 

This is just to illustrate how even the 1300 to 1600 year fag-end of history that we profess to learn or teach is all a confused hodge-podge of half-cooked ideas.

 

The same is the case with Christian history. Had Christianity been a religion founded by Jesus Christ, it should have been known as Christism or Jesusism like Buddhism or Communism. Moreover its later syllable " nity" is not a European word at all. Therefore it needs to be realized that Christianity is a mal-pronunciation of the Sanskrit term Chrisn-nity also spelled as Krishna-neeti. Since Bhagavad Geeta is the book of Krishna-neeti, what we know as Christianity is a fossiled, broken branch of the Vedic tree, and in fact the ancient Bhagavad Geeta cult. Consequently, the Papacy in Rome was a Vedic priesthood until a haughty neo-convert Roman Emperor Constantine pounced on the Vatican around 312 A.D, slew the Vedic pontiff and installed in his place a representative of the tiny Christian sect. That is how the Christian Pope came to inherit the inherent authority of the Europe-wide sacred sway of the holy hoary Vedic priest known as the Shankaracharya. The icons of Lord Shiva which the slain Vedic priest and his Vedic predecessors used to worship are still in display in the Vaticans Etruscan museum.

 

The fancied European word Papa (spelled as Pope only in English) is the Sanskrit term "Papa-ha", i.e., Absolver from Sin. The word Vatican is Sanskrit Vatica meaning a Hermitage. Even the Archbishop in Canterbury (U.K.) was a Vedic Shankaracharya priesthood which was invaded, captured and converted into Christianity in 597 A.D. Until then Canterbury was known as Shankerpury.

 

Thus Christianity in Europe is only 1000 to 1600 years deep. Earlier for millions of years Europeans spoke Sanskrit and practised Vedic culture. Biblical stanzes are known as "psalm" (pronounced as "Saam") because they have been substituted for the Saamveda. The white Friars and the Black Friars are the Shukla (White) Yajurvedis and Krishna (Black) Yajurvedis of the Vedic tradition. Friar is the malpronounciation of the Sanskrit term Pravar meaning a sage. This should impress upon all scholars and readers the necessity to look under the veneer of Christianity to discover the grand old, sacred, holy Vedic Sanskrit past of Europe. Both Muslim West-Asia and Christian Europe had the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Ramayan, Mahabharat, Ayurved (Vedic Medical Science), Vedic sculpture and all other precious Vedic arts and sciences. But Islam and Christianity have suppressed all that multi-million year Sanskrit Vedic history.

 

Likewise, unknown to modern Muslims, Islam too retains its Vedic roots. Vedas are known as "Sruti" in Sanskrit, meaning "heard" since Lord Brahma coached the first generation of godly human beings to recite the Vedas exactly as they heard from Him. The Arabic synonym for "Sruti" is "Sunah" also meaning heard.Sunnis constitute the first Arabic sect of Islam because Mohammad's ancestors were followers of "Sunah" alias Sruti i.e., the Vedas. Mohammad himself says in the Koran that he is telling nothing new but is reiterating all that is recorded in the ancient most scriptures. Those ancient most scriptures, as all know, are the Vedas. Like the Saamvedic tradition consecrated in the Biblical psalms, the muslim call for prayer articulated five times a day from all mosque-tops too follow the Saamvedic style of incantation in its entirety. Yet modern Muslims and Christians through their total studied ignorance of their Vedic past have cut themselves off from their Vedic roots. This should serve to underline the need for setting up a World Vedic Heritage University not only to acquaint humanity of its single source, continuous, consistent history from the very first generation up-to-date, but also to bring about greater cohesion, peace and unity through the realization that all humanity belongs to common Vedic brotherhood. Islam, of course, effectively bars any probe into the pre-Islamic past of Muslim regions. But Christians too surprisingly, though perhaps unwittingly, frown on any study of the pre-Christian history of Christian regions.

 

Christians are generally believed to be very progressive, since unlike Muslims, they permit a discussion on the relevance of their religious practices or doctrines. Christians also have made great studies in space technology, nuclear research and medicine. Yet somehow the Christian ecclesiastical wing has succeeded in effectively preventing its scholars from any probe into their preChristian history. That is why Christian archaeologists who often find the relics of Vedic culture tuck them away as freak objects not amounting to any coherent, consistent finding. I had a taste of the built-in Christian aversion to any preChristian history of Christian countries, a couple of years back. Since Christianity in France is only about 1600 years old while human habitation of France has a multi-million-year history, I was imaginative to know the pre-Christian civilization of France. So I wrote to the mighty, weighty Department of French civilization of the Harvard University, USA to find out any information they may have on the pre-Christian life of France. And the stunning answer I received was that Harvard does not at all study France as a preChristian country. That epitomizes the attitude of all Christian European scholars to the pre-Christian post of the Western scholars.

 

That Islam and Christianity should have such a baneful influence on the psyche of the so-called scholars as to make them impervious to all earlier history is a very horrific academic situation indeed. I once met a young French teacher attached to a language institute in Pune. When I opened the topic of the pre-Christian past of France he flared up. He refused to discuss or divulge anything. For him France was wedded and welded to Christianity from the dawn of time. And that was that he was not ready to hear anything which detracted from that belief. But how long can such studied adamance last ! After all the human mind keeps thirsting for more and more knowledge and in that quest many bastilles have to be stormed and mowed down on the way to supreme knowledge in every field.

 

In the matter of history I have a unified field theory which starting from a single source leads to a continuous, consistent history of mankind. My 1315-page illustrated volume titled 'World Vedic Heritage' expounds that finding of mine.

 

History is always a record, oral or written of past events. Christianity and Islam being recent creations have not only no history themselves beyond 1600 and 1400 years respectively, but they also have done their worst in suppressing and befudging or destroying all earlier accounts to leave nothing for invidious comparison. But luckily for us Vedic records such as Shreemad Bhagvatam, the Brahmand Puran, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat and number of other Sanskrit texts have preserved for mankind a meticulous history from the very first generation of human beings, nay, even from before the creation - an account of almost 2000 million years!

 

The Brahmand Puran stated that before the creation it was all dark. There was no sound and no movement. Then there arose a gentle breeze. The word OM reverberated through the high heavens. Lord Vishnu, the mainstay of all creation, appeared in the firmament floating on a milky, frothy ocean reclining on the coils of a huge serpent. From his navel emerged Brahma on a lotus stem carrying the (written) Sanskrit texts of the Vedas. After him were created some founding fathers known as ' Prajapatees' and 27 founding mothers known as 'Matrukas'. From them human procreation started. That initial stock of men and women were of godly calibre. They were reciters of the Vedas as bees are congenital experts in honey making. The language of the Vedas being Sanskrit became humanity's first God-given language. That is how human procreation started exactly in the manner in which one starts a poultry farm by procuring an initial stock of hens, roosters and eggs. The above Vedic account has its echoes in the Bible too. For instance, the Brahma of Vedic tradition is spelled as Abraham in Jewish and Christian and Ibrahim in by Muslims. The very first line of the Genesis chapter of the Bible stated "The Spirit of God was seen floating on water." That was Lord Vishnu (The Undestructible, Undiminishing Divinity) floating on the milky ocean exactly as recorded in age-old Vedic scriptures. The Bible also records "first there was the word." That was the OM mentioned in the Vedic tradition. Vedic tradition states that the Sanskrit was mankind's first God given language. The Bible also records "At first the world was of one speech." That language was Sanskrit. Unlike Darwin's speculation about the evolution of the diverse species from a proto-plasm, Vedic tradition clearly records that humanity started from a state of divine-excellence and expertise as a full-fledged on-going concern with a perfect Godly-language Sanskrit and a book of knowledge of all highest technologies, sciences and arts and of moral guidance. The beginning of human life was like a drama begun by drawing aside the curtain. Consider a drama. One doesn't know how the dramatist conceived the plot, how and when did he write it, when did he collect the actors, how did he train them and so on. The audience only sees a full-fledged play being enacted before it. Similarly, humanity is unaware of the behind-the-scenes preparation that divinity made. An occasional Darwin indulging in idle, fanciful speculation as to how the world began and how life and speech began is absolutely of no use.

 

The first era of the drama of life on earth (including human) opened as a full-fledged on-going concern. The first act of that drama featuring men, women and children of a divine calibre, lasting 1,728,000 years is rightly known as the Kruta Yuga. Kruta in Sanskrit implies ready-made. The next era lasting 1,296,000 years was known as the Treta because it started with only three parts of its original goodness. Lord Rama emerged as the hero of the world-war fought in that era, against Ravan, a coercive demoniac world-sovereign. The era after that was known as Dwapar (from 'dwi' in Sanskrit meaning 'two') because it started with only two parts left of the original divine excellence. That era lasted for 864,000 years. The Kaurava Pandava World War was fought at the end of the Dwapar era. Now humanity is passing through its last era of 432,000 years duration, of which 5090 years have already elapsed. The present era is known as Kali i.e., a period of rising and crime and strife. We already see its all round baneful effects in the breakup of families and rising unconcern even between father and son and husband and wife.

 

It may be observed that the cosmic machine created by divinity is like any other machine which gives a trouble-free service for a long initial period. Succeeding era's are comparatively shorter (each by 432,000 years). Yet the deterioration in the quality of human life decelerates with every passing era.

 

In the succession described above, Vedic culture and Sanskrit language pervaded the whole world under the unitary rule of Vedic sovereigns. Kauravas and Pandavas were the last Vedic sovereigns in that time. They fought a very devastating internecine war with highly destructive biological and nuclear weapons. That war starting on November 15 (in modern terms) of 5561 B.C lasted just 18 days. But the war was so devastating that it shattered, tattered and battered the global Vedic-Sanskrit social, cultural, administrative and educational system that pervaded the pervaded the world for millions of years earlier. As a result, there followed a long period of chaos and ignorance. Far flung prosperous communities trapped distant lands such as Australia and Fiji became isolated when communications broke down and gradually sunk into an aboriginal condition. Later as things settled down broken regional such as Syria, Assyria, Egypt, China and India surfaced, limping along following a broken Vedic tradition. At that stage being bereft of the uniform Vedic teaching (of the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Ramayan and Mahabharat) humanity broke-up into a number of cults such as Romans i.e., Ramans (followers of Rama); Chrisnans (followers of Chrisn) now malpronounced as Christians; Samaritans (followers of Smrutis such as Manusmruti); Stoics i.e., Staviks (those believing in meditation); Essenese (followers of Isan, the father-god Lord Shiva); Palestinians (followers of Pulastin); Judaists i.e., Yedu's of Lord Krishna's clan; Sadduceans (i.e., Sadhujan meaning monks) and Malencians (i.e., Mlenchhas meaning those who lapsed into undisciplined behaviour). That in the broad outline is World history from the very first generation of human beings to our own. All communities such as Scythians and Phoenicians were splinters of the world Vedic society shattered by the Mahabharat War. Similarly all modern languages and dialects spoken around the world are fragments of Sanskrit.

 

Recently, I have published a book titled 'Fowlers' Howlers' pointing out how the etymology set out in the Oxford English Dictionary by its editors H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler has gone awry because they are unaware of English being a branch of Sanskrit. Any Englishman would simply blink if asked why London has only has Upminster but no Downminster? And why an expert mathematician is called a Wrangler? Problems such as these can be solved only by recourse to Sanskrit. Under the Vedic system, boys when 5 to 8 years old were sent to Sanskrit hermitage schools. There they studied for 12 to 20 years in a celibate state. They were known as Brahmacharis (i.e., Bachelors). The consonants 'B-ch-r' common to both are proof that the English (European) word Bachelor is a malpronounciation of the Sanskrit word Brahmachari. Not only that the modern 'Bachelor' degree is incongruously conferred even on married or unmarried women though even the English dictionary rules out the use of the word Bachelor in relation to a woman. There are many such emphatic proofs indicating that the network of Sanskrit-Vedic Hermitage schools covered the whole world in ancient times. Those schools were known as Guruculams. And since the Sanskrit word 'Gow' is pronounced as 'Cow' in English, it should be apparent that the modern word 'curriculum' is an hangover of the Vedic 'guruculam'.

 

Another major indication of the Vedic social system having been in vogue all over the ancient world is found in the so-called Christian marriage procedure which is entirely Vedic. The word Wedding is in fact 'Vedding' since the union is solemnized through Vedic chants. The Vedic term is "Pani-Grahan" meaning (the groom) clasping the hand (of the bride). The European term 'taking the bride's hand in marriage' is an exact translation of the Vedic Sanskrit term Pani-grahan.

 

Likewise covering the bride's face with a Muslin veil, lining up bride's maids, an elderly relation formerly 'giving away the bride' (Vedic Kanyadaan),, tying the apparel of the bride and the groom into a knot, the showering of the newly-weds with rice-grains is all total Vedic procedure. When the groom clasps the hand of the bride a sacred thread is tied around their wrists indicating a hust-band (in Sanskrit) i.e., a hand-tie. The word 'husband' in English is that Sanskrit word 'hust-band' (with the letter 't' missing') indicating that the male whose hand is being tied to that of his bride, has no right thereafter to run after another women.

 

It is hoped that this brief account will induce some scholars to undertake an in-depth study of human history from the very first generation of godly human beings millions of years ago in a continuous sequence coming down to our own times. The present archaeological sequence of an ice age, a Pleistocene age, a stone age etc. seems to be sheer untenable speculation like Darwin's theory of evolution of life. Historic relics found in Carthage, Egypt, the British Isles, Denmark, Italy etc. all indicate the prevalence of Vedic culture throughout the world. Muslim hands craftily suppressed all archaeological investigation and try their best to keep the world uninformed of any pre-Islamic relics in their regions. Any such finds a quickly destroyed. Kaaba, the main muslim shrine in Mecca itself contains a number of closely guarded secrets.

 

The very through manner in which Christian and Muslim religious tutoring and training has rendered the minds of Christians and Muslims totally impervious to all earlier history is all appalling. For instance, Muslims and Christians are totally unaware of even the very meaning of the names of their own cities and regions since those are all Sanskrit. How many Muslims would know that Arabia alias Arvasthan and Turkey alias Turagasthan are Sanskrit words signifying a land of horses ? Likewise Baghdad, the capital of Iraq, was Bhagawad-nagar i.e., The City of God. European countries still retain their Sanskrit names. Russia is Rishiya (land of sages), Siberia is Shibiria (land of temporary hutments), Austria is Astriya (land of missiles), Hungary is Sringery (signifying a scenic country), Romania is Ramaaneeya (i.e., enchantingly beautiful region), Denmark gets is name from Danu and Mark (two leading members of the Vedic Daitya clan), Bulgaria is Bul-gareeya (i.e., strength of high order), Belgium is Balam-Ajeyam (i.e., invincible strength). All this points the need to reopen and reorientate the study of all history and archaeology.

 

What has hitherto been understood to be mere Hindu or Indian culture or at best Southeast Asian culture has been in fact Universal Vedic culture of all humanity from the very down of creation. Only when that culture got gradually eclipsed from other regions (due to Christian and Muslim coersions) and got confined to the Sindhu (Indus) region, then it acquired the regional name Sindhuism pronounced as Hinduism.That is how universal Vedic culture got the regional name Hinduism.That is why the word Hindu does not figure in any basic Vedic scriptures.

 

Hinduism alias Vedic culture does not pin down a person to any scriptures, prophet or mode of worship or prayer. Because being a universal culture of all mankind it embraces all human beings from Staunch theists to Stark atheists. As much Muslim and Christian modes of worship and prayer could happily form part of Vedic culture provided Muslims and Christians give up their penchant for conversions through coercion or temptation. Because the basic rule of the Vedic club is non-interference in anybody's theological and spiritual thinking. It is hoped that the analysis presented above would induce serious scholars all over the world to found an Academy alias University of World Vedic Heritage, with centres in major state capitals to train teachers, writers, speakers and researchers in Universal Vedic history. Such centres should display large sketches or sculptures of Lord Vishnu reclining on the eternal serpent, as the main stag of all creation. All activities at such centres should begin early every morning with Vedic recitations. At such centres there will be no distinctions of cast or creed, high or low. Sanskrit should be a compulsory subject for all since all Vedic scriptures are in Sanskrit. Sanskrit will also be promoted as a conversational language.

 

It will be made clear to all that the term Vedic times signifies the day of the creation and nothing less. The Vedic slogan "Krunwanto Vishwam Aryam" implies training every human being to lead a life of dutiful selfless service like a mother devoted to the service of her household. The serious and age long lapse in proper study of Vedic history as explained above has also resulted in misinterpretation of the word Arya as a haughty overhearing person denouncing others as non-Aryans and therefore inferior. This should underline the need for universal study of Vedic history.

[ng dasa]

 

Srila Prabhupada:Islam is also Vaisnavism.

Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaisnavism.

Srila Prabhupada:No, no. Caitanya Mahaprabhu had talked with the Pathanas.

He proved that "Your religion is Vaisnavism."? (February 17, 1974, Bombay) 5. "Chaitanya Mahaprabhu proved devotional service from the Quran.

So, it requires a devotee who can explain God from any Godly literature"? ( Morning Walk, June 6, 1974, Geneva)

 

 

That is the question: would ISKCON in the new Vedic world order (aka Varnasrama) be a Taliban-sort of organization where there would be a vice police to see who is following the 4 regs, chanting 16 rounds, offering bhoga ,etc...????

 

 

yes, blind fundamentalism is dangerous in every religion. That is why the Vedic states were ruled by the kshatriya kings, and not by brahmana sannyasis. it was NOT a theocracy.

 

Watching the world stage over the last years I have often thought too, what would happen if a fundamentalist form of our tradition was in power.

Probably the same breaches of human rights would go on.

It is such a wonderful pastime of Lord Caitanya when he shows the pathanas that the qu'ran also teaches devotional service. Oh, I long for that day when the wisdom of Caitanya may ease some of the madness that goes on these days in the name of God.

[Guest guest]

ask padmapani das he and others preached VIGOROUSLY there in formidible war years.

 

better yet when the Vaisnava worships in mosque or temples it would do very well just to honour the spirit of their faith as it may not be yours but we know that Krsna is unlimited in His expansions so why the delemna chant hare krsna chant Allah ahkbar .....see Srila Prabhupada made everything so simple a child or dog can do it.

 

always pray to remain ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of genuine Vaisnavas.

[krsna]

 

Watching the world stage over the last years I have often thought too, what would happen if a fundamentalist form of our tradition was in power.

Probably the same breaches of human rights would go on.

It is such a wonderful pastime of Lord Caitanya when he shows the pathanas that the qu'ran also teaches devotional service. Oh, I long for that day when the wisdom of Caitanya may ease some of the madness that goes on these days in the name of God.

"You Have Blasphemed Against Islam, The Prophet and the Koran: Wafa Sultan Speaks Out <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>

<O:P> </O:P>

On February 21, 2006, Al-Jezeera TV aired a debate between Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychiatrist from Los Angeles and two Islamic scholars, Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli of Al Azhar University and Dr. Ahmad Bin Muhammad, an Algerian professor of religious politics. Ms. Sultan, an immigrant from Syria left Islam in 1979 when a professor in a class she was attending at the University of Aleppo in northern Syria was shot dead by terrorists a few feet from where she was sitting. Things of that nature—like lynchings and tornadoes—stick with a student. <O:P> </O:P>

The debate had scarcely started when sparks began to fly. Maybe someone mentioned Samuel Huntington or maybe Ygor was in charge of the lighting. “The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations,” said Wafa, “it is a clash between two opposites, between two eras…It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.” <O:P> </O:P>

Now Mullah al-Khouli could have said you are entitled to your opinion. That’s what Chris Matthews would have said. But what kind of Mullah would al-Khouli have been if he had responded like a reasonable fellow? He would have been a Mullah looking for employment, that’s what he would have been. And with Air-America going belly-up he would have had to settle for some second-rate position like associate professor of Islamo-fascist Studies at Columbia or Harvard. And—Allah should forbid—he would be surrounded by dhimmis! So he accused Ms. Sultan of being a heretic. <O:P> </O:P>

“There is no point in rebuking you since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran,” said al-Khouli. As Archie Bunker was fond of saying, “End of argument.” <O:P> </O:P>

But Wafa Sultan wasn’t Edith Bunker—she refused to stifle. “Why does a young Muslim man, in the prime of life, with a full life ahead, go and blow himself up?” she asked. “How and why does he blow himself up in a bus full of innocent people?” <O:P> </O:P>

That is an interesting question. Why would he blow himself up? No Scientologist ever launched himself into the 5<SUP>th</SUP> Dimension for L. Ron Hubbard. Anyone who has ever attended the Reverend Falwell’s Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia, knows Jerry doesn’t like loud noises. Not one Quaker in a million would know how to fashion a suicide bomber’s belt. Very few atheists hanker for the hereafter. <O:P> </O:P>

And, quite frankly, killing innocent people is sick. The Frankenstein monster killed innocent people but he was sick—he couldn’t help himself. Mohammed Atta killed innocent people. Was he sicker than the monster? Had some sinister force tampered with his brain? <O:P> </O:P>

Dr. Bin Muhammad then addressed the politics of religious innocence. “I am not saying that killing innocent people is nice,” he said. “I say that all innocent people should be protected. But at the same time, we must start with the innocent among the Muslims. There are millions of innocent people among us, while the innocent among you—and innocent they are—number only dozens, hundreds, or thousands at the most.” <O:P> </O:P>

Did he say, “hundreds, thousands at the most?” Is he kidding? Has he ever looked at a map? How many people does he think there are in the world? Doesn’t anybody study Human Geography in the Middle East? Freddie Krueger wouldn’t be safe locked in a room with this creep. If Bin Muhammad is an example of what the non-Muslim world can expect from Islam’s best and brightest a bird flu pandemic doesn’t seem that bad an alternative. Adolph Hitler and Joe Stalin would seem more out of place in Dante’s Inferno than al-Khouli and Bin Muhammad—or in Vanessa Redgrave's drawing room for that matter.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%"></TD><TD width="50%"></TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%">

* Mullah Krekar.

</TD><TD width="50%">

* Dr. Wafa Sultan.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Meanwhile, one Islamic time warp removed from al-Jezeera TV, Scandinavia’s most controversial refugee, Mad Mullah Krekar, was fighting extradition to Iraq. Krekar had been granted asylum by Norway in 1992 and like Omar Bakri in England he’s been on the dole ever since. Now, really—don’t any of these guys work? No wonder Islam is ten centuries behind Lower Slobbovia in economic development. Nonetheless, Krekar, born Najmuddin Raraj Ahmad, doesn’t let being a ward of the state interfere with his bashing of his benefactors. We will bury you; we will outbreed you like rats in a garbage dump. Oh, he’s a nasty one. “We’re the ones who will change you,” he insists. <O:P> </O:P>

Krekar travels back and forth to Iraq where he meets regularly with Ansar al-Islam a terrorist organization he helped create before he became persona non grata. Iraq wants him back. Krekar is an admirer of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. “Osama bin Laden is a good person,” he says. “Those who say Osama bin Laden is a terrorist are themselves killing women and children.” <O:P> </O:P>

He must be on Jim McDermott's E-mail list. Radical Muslims have killed most if not all of the Muslim women and children killed in recent years. And they have killed most of the Christians, animists and Hindus that have falling victim to violence over the same time frame. <O:P> </O:P>

“The West destroyed the Taliban regime in Afghanistan because it feared the Islamic state,” said Krekar. <O:P> </O:P>

That’s one scenario. There are others—imagine the Taliban as an open sewer, breeding disease and pestilence, and Uncle Sam as the Orkin Man on a mission of mercy and one is closer to the truth. <O:P> </O:P>

Al-Khouli, Bin Muhammad, and Mullah Krekar; three Islamo-fascist thugs; nasty fellows—they are not the salt of the earth. Did they spring full-blown from the Qur’an or did they creep out of the pages of Mein Kampf? It’s a close call. Krekar is more obnoxious than al-Khouli and Bin Muhammad. He may be a rune short of Reinhardt Heydrich, but he tries. In his elocution Bin Muhammad could pass for Joseph Goebbels and al-Khouli has all the obtuseness of Joachim von Ribbentrop but little of the latter’s charm. Not one of these creeps has contributed anything of value to the civilized world. They are barbarity not rationality. Al-Khouli, Bin Muhammad, and Mullah Krekar—is this the best Islam has to offer? <O:P> </O:P>

Wafa Sultan said, “I don’t believe you can reform Islam.” <O:P> </O:P>

It is difficult to argue with that proposition. The Qur’an is so full of violence, intolerance, bigotry, anti-Semitism, sexism, chauvinism and hatred it could have served as a training manual for an SS Division on the way to the Warsaw Ghetto. <O:P> </O:P>

“Once you try to fix it (Islam),” said Wafa, “you’re going to break it.” <O:P> </O:P>

It’s going to be a long war.<O:P>

</O:P>

[Apep]

 

Again:

"Why are there no ISKCON temples in Saudi Arabia???"

there are no Iskcon temples in many large US towns either. what is your excuse for that?

There are many muslim temples in the United States. Also in Europe too.

[Apep]

 

Is this only militant Islamic religion or is it inherent natural quality of the 'peaceful and tolerant ISLAM'???

 

Is not the first few pages of the Koran , a law that Allah is displeased with non-believers aka infidels?

I read the Koran one time and I found that symbolic meaning often.

[gHari]

<a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/afghan.christian.ap/index.html" target=new> Top Muslim clerics: Convert must die

 

Religious leaders urge courts to ignore West, hang Christian

 

</a>

[Guest guest]

 

<a target=new> Top Muslim clerics: Convert must die

 

Religious leaders urge courts to ignore West, hang Christian

 

</a>

Yes I saw that too. Does this look like a religion that expresses peace?

[Apep]

 

Yes I saw that too. Does this look like a religion that expresses peace?

I posted that. My computer pinged me out as a guest for some odd reason.

[suchandra]

 

Top Muslim clerics: Convert must die

Religious leaders urge courts to ignore West, hang Christian

 

There seems to be a strong soldier out there in the dugout and strongly preaching bhagavat-dharma, pure devotional service to the Sheiks, without fear of losing his head: Kavicandra Swami, ki jaya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://kavicandraswami.info/gallery

[krsna]

 

By Syed Kamran Mirza<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>

March 25, 2006<O:P> </O:P>

<O:P></O:P>

Abdur Rahman, 41 an Afghan man is facing possible death penalty from Allah’s draconian law called Islamic Shariaat. What was his crime? He voluntarily converted from Islam to Christianity; that was his only crime. Islam does not allow people to choose their religion of choice. Because, Islamic Allah (God) accept only Islam as the religion of all mankind. Islam never recognizes or respects any other religions, period. Islam never tolerates any other religion but Islam. Not only that, Islam actually controls mind, body and life of every Muslim by 100%. Muslims are like robot or zombie and having being a perfect Muslim (Muslim by the book) they lose the quality of normal human.<O:P> </O:P>

<O:P></O:P>

According to Allah’s decree (4:89) in Holy Quran—this poor Afghan should be killed Islamically by beheading, or by stoning by hundreds of enthusiastic super-zealous pious Muslims—by singing the Islamic holy slogans: “Allah-hu-Akabar”—Allah the Great. Prophet of Islam himself killed apostates and Islam never allows any human to accept religion of their own choice. Islam only allow one religion and that is called Islam. Quranic verses clearly dictated believers of Islam to kill the apostates. Here is what Holy Quran says about the apostates: <O:P> </O:P>

Quran-4:89—(Yusuf Ali): “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and kill them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-” <O:P> </O:P>

So please don’t blame Afghanic Islam; there is no such thing called “Afghanic Islam” or “Afghan Islamic rule”, as some western reporters are stating erroneously. There is only one Islam and one Islamic rule that is universal for all Islamic countries wherever this barbaric Sharia laws are implemented. <O:P></O:P>

(Poor Abdul Rahman, arrested by Afghan police)<O:P> </O:P>

Pure Islam of 7<SUP>th</SUP> century practiced by Prophet Muhammad does not recognize any sort of human rights. In fact, Islam does not have any kind of human rights at all. Islam only recognizes Allah’s rights and Prophet’s rights; that’s it. Quran does not talk about any kind of human rights; Quran only talks about Allah’s rights or rights of pious Muslims.<O:P> </O:P>

Millions of conversion from one religion to other is a common phenomenon throughout the world. If thousands of Christians or Hindus do convert to Islam, it’s o.k. to every Muslim. They will hail them with heartiest welcome and will loudly cheer—“Allah the Great!!!” But problem starts when any Muslim does convert to other religion. He must be killed. This single case is a glaring example of Islam’s dire intolerance towards other religion. Afghan pious Muslims are furious to poor Abdur Rahman because he left Islam for Christianity. Afghan clerics demanded: “Kill Christian convert, Karzai will be 'pulled into pieces' if Abdul Rahman spared. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die”. This is really peaceful and tolerant religion, indeed! <O:P></O:P>

But so what? Go ask any western educated Muslims (living in the infidel lands with western comfort) about Islamic tolerance. Undoubtedly the majority of them will proudly say that Islam is a religion of peace and ample tolerance. Go ask any Islamic mullah from CAIR, ICNA or ISNA about peaceful tolerant Islam. They all will say the same slogan which they have memorized so efficiently to fool the western gullible (idiots). <O:P> </O:P>

All these years, we have been telling western readers with tons of authentic evidences (from Quran and Ahadiths) that Islam is a dangerous, inhuman, terribly intolerant and violent religion. But at the same time, all those hypocritical Islamists were busy refuting our claim by saying: “Islam bashers are not telling the truth about Islam, they are citing bad translation, distortions of peaceful Quranic verses etc. etc.” And western gullible (idiots) seems to believe those cunning Islamists more than they believe us (a few apostates), who are desperately telling the truth about Islam by risking their own life. <O:P> </O:P>

My questions are: where are all those western living Islamic pundits? How they can explain this Islamic barbarism destined to happen with this innocent Afghan convert?<O:P> </O:P>

Why are they completely silent now? Where are those big mouths of CAIR (Ibrahim Hooper. Nihad Awad gong) and why they are not talking now? Were they not telling American gullible public that Islam means peace and tolerance? After 9/11 these Islamic pundits of CAIR/ICNA/ISNA were busy fooling American publics days and nights by their mouthful of lies about Islam. <O:P> </O:P>

Why western media are so silent (relatively) about this heinous act of Islam in <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Afghanistan</ST1:PLACE> </ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>now? So far, reaction to this incredible human rights violation by Islamic Shariaat (real Islam) from the west has been low to moderate, and I am not satisfied by their low-key response. American Medias are broadcasting this horrific news like any other ordinary news; just a news! No appropriate reactions or inquisitiveness or angry questions coming out of any western reporters. As if nothing happened. Just a month ago western media were hysteric to the ‘famous monkey dancing’ of Peaceful Muslims worldwide on the Danish Cartoon issue. There should have been created a hue and cry in the west by this kind of uncivilized act of Islam. Of course, at last, President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have uttered some strong words which may save the life of this poor Afghan. But reaction could be more strong and vigorous from the western leaders and publics. Why President Bush and Condoleezza Rice do not ask Afghans their angry questions about Islamic intolerance? <O:P> </O:P>

Why CNN, FOX NEWS, MNBC etc. do not call all those Islamic pundits from CAIR/ICNA/ISNA and grill them up very hard with genuine questions? Let them explain this beautiful super-tolerant scenario of <ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Afghanistan</ST1:PLACE> </ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>in front of the American public. Where are those soft-spoken western apologists like Karen Armstrong, John Esposito and James Zogby’s big mouth? American media should grill them all. American media should force Ibrahim Hooper and Nihad Awad to admit that, Islam was never a tolerant religion in the past, and Islam will never be a peaceful religion again. Islam needs to be discarded for good. Islam is barbaric and medieval Arab Bedouin’s life style in the garb of religion.