Can a Vaishnava believe in mayavada?

[Guest guest]

If we believe that the world is an illusion and Krishna alone is real, wouldn't that help us in ignoring the world and think of Krishna all the time? What's the use in considering the world real, if that idea is going to take us away from Krishna? So why can't we reject the world as mithya and consider Krishna alone as satya, doing which we can drop all attachment adn develop bhakti?

 

Strange as it may sound, mayavada does help Vaishmavas in developing bhakti and vairagya.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

That's just your speculation, we cannot learn anything from Mayavada. Nothing. I am being harsh, but your speculating that you can learn from it. Anyway now for my nice side..

 

This world is unreal means, it's not our real home.

[Guest guest]

But to love Krishna, doesn't mayavada help in that we can ignore the world and focus completely on Krishna? That was the point, I wasn't trying to be a defense counsel for mayavada.

[stonehearted]

Guest:

But to love Krishna, doesn't mayavada help in that we can ignore the world and focus completely on Krishna?

 

 

You apparently have a very limited conception of what mayavada philosophy entails. Those people believe that Krishna's transcendental form and pastimes are also illusory, products of Mahamaya. There's no way such a philosphy could facilitate love for Krishna. It's the ulitmate expression of envy for Krishna. Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura have called it a desire to dismember the Supreme Lord. The only way for success is to follow the path of surrender prescribed by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and our acharyas, with a focus on chanting the holy names of Krishna without offense. Mayavada philosphy will only facilitate offensive chanting.

 

As for the world, mayavada doesn't properly understand that it is one of Krishna's amazing energies. We are to engage it in Krishna's service, not ignore it. It sounds as though you could use some guidance. Too many people think they can freelance bhakti; it can only be attained by selfless service to the selfless servants of the guru paramapara.

[Guest guest]

perhaps, I should've said 'selective mayavada', only the 'jagat mithya' part. Krishna Satya, Jagat Mithya. How does that sound, eh? You negate the world without negating Krishna, as mayavadins do. Both parties are happy.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Vaishnava's generally try to see how everything is connected to Krishna, rather than trying to negate it's existence. That's the whole point of Krishna consciousness: to be conscious of Krishna even when looking at something apparently mundane.

[krsna]

In the Padma Purana Lord Shiva personally tells BhagavatidevI:

 

SRNu devI parakShyAmi

tAmasAni yathA-kramam

yeShAM SravaNa-mAtreNa

pAtityaM jNAninAm api

 

 

apArthaM Sruti-vAkyAnAM

darSayaL loka-garhitam

karma-svarUpa-tyAjyatvam

atra ca pratipAdyate

 

 

sarva-karma-paribhraMSAn

naiSkarmyaM tatra cocyate

parAtma-jIvayor aikyaM

mayAtra pratipAdyate

 

 

"My dear devi, sometimes I teach mayavadi philosophy for those who are engrossed in the mode of ignorance. But if a person in the mode of goodness happens to hear this mayavadi philosophy, he falls down, for when teaching mayavadi philosophy, I say that the living entity and the Supreme Lord are one and the same."

 

Sadananda-yogi, one of the greatest mayavadi acharyas, has written in his book, vedanta-sAra: "The Absolute Truth of eternity, knowledge and bliss is Brahman. Ignorance and all products of ignorance are non-Brahman. All products of the three modes of ma terial nature are covered by ignorance, and all are different from the supreme cause and effect. This ignorance is manifested in a collective and individual sense. Collective ignorance is called vishuddha-sattva-pradhana. When that vishuddha-sattva-pradhana is manifest within the ignorance of material nature, it is called the Lord, and the Lord manifests all kinds of ignorance. Therefore He is known as sarvajNa." Thus according to mayavadi philosophy, the Lord is a product of this material nature, and the living entity is in the lowest stage of ignorance. That is the sum and substance of mayavadi philosophy.

 

[stonehearted]

Guest:

perhaps, I should've said 'selective mayavada', only the 'jagat mithya' part. Krishna Satya, Jagat Mithya. How does that sound, eh? You negate the world without negating Krishna, as mayavadins do. Both parties are happy.

 

 

Sorry--won't fly. We already accept brahma is satya and jagat is mithya; we simply have a different understanding of that assertion than do the misled so-called followers of Shankara. The jagat is ephemeral, and brahma, spirit, has real substance.

 

There's no need for the inexperienced to add or subtract anything with regard to the teachings of Lord Chaitanya and the goswamis. We simply need to study and practice those teachings under the guidance of expert vaishnavas.

 

Here's something else Shiva said about his teaching mayavada in Kali yuga:

 

mayavadam asac chastram

pracchannam bauddham ucyate

mayaiva kalpitam devi

kalau brahmana-rupina

 

O Devi, mayavadi philosophy is extremely materialistic and warped. The nihilistic views of Buddhism have surreptitiously been disguised in the Vedic jargon and have entered the arena of civilized Aryan dharma. This is the mayavadi philosophy, which I must propagate in Kali-yuga, having taken birth in a brahmana family.

 

 

 

[krsna]

 

 

Pain is temporary, pride is forever.

 

-- Anonymous

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The Goswami's define bhakti as utilizing all of the senses (along with the objects of the senses) in the service of Krishna who is the master of the senses (hrisikena hrisikesha sevanam bhaktir ucyate). Thus the Gaudiya's very process of sadhana requires one to understand that the world is real and can be factually engaged in the service of Bhagavan. Such service is a reality and it can transform matter to spirit just as an iron rod becomes red hot and fire like by being held within the fire for a long time (this is the example they themselves have given). Actually there is nothing except Krishna's spiritual energy. When we try to perceive it in a selfish manner it becomes material for us - but in reality it is still daivam, transcendental (daivi hy esha guna mayi) due to it's connection to the transcendental Lord. Trying to deny the material world as mithya ultimately leads to negating the Lord Himself through negation of His transcendental potencies. Furthermore if the world is false than there would be no spiritual benefit in studying the Lord's vibhutis and lila's of creation. But our Acharya's have stated it is a sahajiya tendency to be only interested in Krishna's internal pastimes while ignoring His pastimes in connection with this world. All pastimes are equally transcendental and purifying.

 

Success in spiritual life comes when we learn how to accept the transcendental knowledge from a higher source, a self realized saint. What you propose is manufacturing our own philosophy because we think it may be better or easier than that of self realized saints and God Himself. But if our views were really better than theirs then we wouldn't be in our problems in the first place. Our superior philosophical system would have solved all our problems of life. It's something like Arjuna in the beginning of the Bhagavad Gita giving many lofty philosophical answers to his problems, but if he actually had the answers he wouldnt be in confusion.