Varnasrama: An Elusive Goal- "past mistakes and misconceptions must be re-evaluated."

[Guest guest]

Kulapavana Prabhu,

 

Obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, they are misplaced and simply show your kindness towards me.

 

I beg to disagree that there are more fundamental discussions re. varna development than food production. I can guarantee you that if Lord Krsna and Arjuna were driving down Fifth Ave. in NYC, they would eventually run over to Brooklyn for prasada.

 

Due to the urban upbringing the great majority of devotees, they do not realize the importance of food production in developing a Vedic alternative. It is imperative that it isn't neglected.

 

If we have to portray Vedic culture in a few words, it first comes to mind as protection of the brahmanas and the cows. Doesn't that tell us something?

 

I don't understand your point about the farm being sold out from under me. Doesn't that also pertain to the devotees in the city. Obviously, you point is that w/o properly trained ksatriyas, then our lives are at peril. Granted. But where do we start in developing varnasrama? Getting devotees elected to the municipal councils around the world? Or do we attack the demons on our chariots? To me it all comes off as impractical.

 

Serioualy, food production and its subesequent rural development are attainable goals. We need to step out of this horrible society and develop some sanity. It will never be perfect but should be given priority as an intelligent starting point.

 

Eloquence is to present one's point with the fewest amount of words (I never said I was eloquent which is becoming painfully obvious); simple living is a pre-requisite to developing KC, either in the city or country. But when you are speaking about organizing an alternative society, simple living is key.

 

Most of today's ills stem from its non-adoption. An inflated lifestyle is complicit with nuclear power, pollution, urban sprawl and on and on and on. The modern perks of convenience simply translate into energy use. So please do not minimize Srila Prabhupada's instructions in that matter simply because they are not attainable presently in an urban setting. They are key to both varnasrama development and for us each individually developing our KC.

 

Believe me I am not one to avoid addressing controversy.

 

I am looking at the foundation of the entire picture. Never have I suggested that the other varnas are unnecessary. I'm not very smart but at the same time not crazy. Agriculture is the basis of all societies.

 

Without adequate food production, society must develop a strong military in order to conquer areas of abundance. Did you know that the fall of the Roman empire can be attributed to their failing agricultural programs. Mesopotamia fell due to siltation of their canals resulting in crop failures due to lack of water and improper irrigation leading to salinization of farmland.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that you can guage the health of a "civilization" by testing their organic matter levels. When the Europeans arrived here the soil was around 8 or 9% organic matter on average (or something like that). Now my understanding is that it rests between 1 and 1.5%.

 

We are folly to think we can discuss social development without a including a comprehensive agricultural perspective.

 

Respectfully,

 

Vyapaka dasa

[Guest guest]

Vyapakaji, dandabat pranams.

 

I live very much in the country, in Prabhupada Village, where I grow at least some of my food. I am also quite involved in our local rural development, and I do not - in the slightest - deny it's essential nature in varnashram development. Yet, there is a LOT more to it, just like I have indicated earlier.

 

I very much agree with you on the importance of food production - we are very inadequate in that area. Yet, the larger issue is a lack of solid economic basis for our communities, including the rural ones. That in turn impacts our ability to develop programs generating very little income, or even costing money to implement. That is a reality in all our farm projects.

 

Prabhu, I manage the day to day operation of a mid size scientific company (environmental laboratory) and I know what it takes to function in our present day world. I'm definitely a hands-on, no-nonsense manager. I'm a realist, not a utopian dreamer. And I can tell you that living a life of basic subsistence farming in a thatched roof hut is NOT a life people are looking for - even the very comitted devotees...and you can't base a social model on something impractical.

 

What we need, in my opinion, is a community supported agriculture, not a community supported exclusively by the agriculture - at least at the present moment. That is what we are trying to accomplish here in PV. In other words, we need to develop two things at the same time: a working society of devotees, and food production program.

[Kulapavana]

that was me above... not logged in.

[Guest guest]

Kulapavana Prabhu,

 

Obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda.

 

I am glad to see that we are closer in our opinions than I thought earlier.

 

If you read my paper at the beginning of this string, I state emphatically that any varied form of economic development in tandem with our philosophy is fair game. As well, stability is a product of diversity.

 

Your typifying rural life as living in a thatched cottage is a bit unfair. I haven't been to Prabhupada Village in quite awhile but do not remember anyone living in that sort of dwelling.

 

Here we live in a near 3500 sq. ft. house and have a shop and old farm house as well. However, our finances are provided by a craft business and not thru farming. I know enough not to depend so much in the early stages on commercial agriculture.

 

But we should be growing as much of our food as possible. Both the quality and security of food supply should provide enough reason alone.

 

As far as your working towards a society of devotees and food production: I have obviously no argument with you. It is great that you are moving along on the food production. In fact, I was speaking with Madhuha yesterday and might drop by for a visit in Jan. So we can possibly speak more then.

 

My complaint comes when there is no connection with the land. It may not be able to support our communities presently but there may well come a time when things will change. We must develop the agronomic side of our communities. Our philosophy is both rural and agriculturally-based. Vaisya activity is required no matter what the form is (again only if it is philosophically agreeable).

 

Respectfully,

 

vyapaka dasa

[Kulapavana]

I'm glad you will be visiting PV soon. We will certainly talk up a storm then /images/graemlins/smile.gif