Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 He is The Christ, our only hope for humanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Servant of Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Why do Christians think that Christ is the only source of righteosness in the world. I always hear them speak about how horrible the Romans were and that if it wasnt for Christ the world today would have no compassion. Buddha came 500 years before Jesus.. Jesus was just one source of goodness in the WEST.. But in the east there are many.. Confucious said 500 years before Christ "Do unto others as you expect done unto yourself." Jesus the only source of righteosness.. only source of hope.. BAH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I suppose I am one of those christians. I believe that because the Bible says he is. The quote above is enough for me, but there is many others you can find in the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Who is Jesus? Some say he is the Son of God. Others say he is a prophet of God. Others still say that he is a nice Jewish boy that got into his Father's business. And others still say he is a satyavesh avatar of God, or a servant of God. Do these small details matter? What matters is, no other Personality has had so much positive influence on western civilization, and for that, he is our Holy Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 The Word of God says Christ is, among many others: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:15-20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I believe Jesus is not God. God is the Supreme Being and there is no greater power than Him. No man or devil could capture Him and tortured Him and kill him. God could never be killed or tortured by barbarians with swords and spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 The basic ideals of Christianity and Vaishnavism (Krishna Consciousness) are somewhat similar but there are some very fundamental differences between them. In the nineteenth century the Gaudiya Vaishnava saint, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, wrote a critique of Christianity in his book Tattva Viveka. Bhaktivinode pointed out that the Vaishnavas do not believe in the existence of any "Satan". There is only one supreme power and Vaishnavas do not believe in the existence of any infernal, devilish power which has been working against God to cause evil in the world since the dawn of creation. According to the Bible of the Christians, the Satan or Devil is a Commander in Chief of a horde of evil spirits. But this idea is just a delusion. "Satan" is nothing more than a myth. Bhaktivinode Thakur wrote that the notion that there are two great supernatural powers constantly struggling against each other, one Good, the other Evil, is an idea first propounded by Zoaraster in Babylon. He said the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions have been influenced by Zoaraster's misconception that a Good God is battling against a Bad God in some sort of cosmic war. In contrast to this belief, Vaishnavism teaches that there is one Supreme Being known by many names such as Vishnu, Rama and Krishna and that the universe is functioning perfectly according to God's plan. Satan is nothing more than a storytale figure. Thakur Bhaktivinode: "Beelzebub or Satan is no other than an object of imagination or the subject of an allegory". - http://www.mahaprabhu.net/LPCM0.html The various gods and demons mentioned in the ancient Hindu scriptures are living beings, people like us, who live a lifetime then die and become reborn in a new life where they must suffer or enjoy the results of their karma; and there are no devils lurking here and there trying to tempt people to do evil works - apart from the ghosts of lust, greed and anger we feel within our own minds. We have only ourselves to blame for the difficulties we experience. Everything that happens to us comes to us through our karma. Bhaktivinode Thakur also said there is no such thing as an everlasting hell. Living beings create karma then experience suffering as a result of that. But even if a person is a demon like Hitler he will not go to an everlasting hell. The soul reincarnates and experiences the results of his karma and every soul has the capacity to evolve into a pure soul who can enter into the spiritual world and be with God. Hell can exist, no doubt. There are many people living in a hell on earth today. But Krishna doesn't condemn anyone to live in a hell for all eternity. The story in the Bible about Adam and Eve was discussed in some depth by Bhaktivinode Thakur. The Bible says Adam and Eve were living in a blissful garden but when they did something wrong they were thrown out of that paradise. Then, because of the sin committed by those primitive ancestors, all the future generations of mankind are punished by God. Yet we see that this God is kind to some people and harsh to others - he is not just. Some babies are born in wealthy homes while others are born into a life of indescribable misery. Not because of anything they did in a previous lifetime or karma or any other such thing, since Christians do not believe in karma, but because God is not fair. He gives some people plenty of daily bread while others starve. This type of God who causes people to suffer for no reason cannot be said to be a loving and Good God. The Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not believe in this sort of God. Gaudiya Vaishnavas believe in Krishna - who is pure goodness. Some Christian people believe in “original sin”. They think that because of the offense committed by their primitive ancestors Adam and Eve all human beings are born as sinners and offenders. Since the original offense cannot be removed by the human beings themselves, God was born in human form and then this God had to endured suffering and death in order that the sins of mankind might be removed. All those souls who believe that God shed his blood so that humankind would be saved from sin are saved by the Messiah, or Savior, and those who don't believe are condemned to everlasting hell. Bhaktivinode Thakur, however, expressed the view that these doctrines are completely untrue. Writing of this “doctrine of salvation for souls by penalizing the God who was born among human beings”, Bhaktivinode Thakur said this dogma is not an intelligible idea for normal thinking people. Nor is the idea of ritual cannibalism, wherein people eat the body and blood of Christ, acceptable to normal, sane people. In order to believe in this religion a person must faithfully accept several other dogmas. One dogma is that the soul does not exist before birth. Another is that the soul does not exist for all eternity. They say the soul is created, just as these physical bodies of ours are created. They also say a soul will never return to earth after dying for you get just one life, just one chance, and when you die you are judged for what you have done – and you will be sent to an eternal heaven or an eternal hell as a consequence of what you did. If you were born in a family of barbarians and lived your life as the barbarians do, then you will go to hell. You get no second chance. There is no hope of further personal evolution for you. You are condemned. Given that these dogmas are accepted as facts by many preachers of this religion we do wonder, sometimes, whether the preachers of this religion actually have any real vision of the real God and his unlimited grace, mercy and love. We wonder if preachers of this concocted system of beliefs are really living in some kind of modern-day dark age. Why are we suffering, and what belief that we may believe in will bring us deliverance? Only Love for Krishna will set you free and give you salvation and eternal life. Bhaktivinode Thakur wrote: (prabhu he!) emona durmati, samsara bhitore, poriya achinu ami tab nija-jana, kono mahajana, pataile dile tumi A wicked mind brought me into this world, O Lord, but one of your pure and elevated devotees has come to bring me out. doya kori’ more, patita dekhiya, kohilo amare giya ohe dina-jana suno bhalo katha ullasita he’be hiya He saw me so fallen and wretched, took pity, and came to me saying, "O humbled soul, please listen to this good tiding, for it will gladden your heart. tomare tarite, sri-krishna-chaitanya, nabadwipe abatara toma heno kato, dina hina jane, korilena bhava-para "Sri Krishna Chaitanya has appeared in the land of Nabadwip to deliver you. He has safely conducted many sad and miserable souls such as you across the sea of worldly existence. bedera pratijna, rakhibara tare, rukma-barna bipra-suta mahaprabhu name, nadiya mataya, sange bhai abadhuta "To fulfill the promise of the Vedas, the son of a brahmin bearing the name Mahaprabhu of golden complexion has descended with his brother the avadhuta Nityananda. Together they have overwhelmed all of Nadia district with divine ecstasy. nanda-suta jini, caitanya gosai, nija nama kori’dana tarilo jagat, tumi-o jaiya, loho nija-paritrana "Sri Chaitanya Gosai, who is Krishna himself, the son of Nanda, has saved the world by freely distributing his own holy name. Go also and receive your deliverance." se katha suniya, asiyachi, natha! tomara carana-tale bhakativinoda, kandiya kandiya, apana-kahini bale O Lord, hearing those words, Bhaktivinode has come weeping and bows down to your lotus feet, telling the story of his life. 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Yesu_Bhaktan Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I believe Jesus is not God. I believe Jesus who said "I and the Father are one" and "The Father is greater than I". Shakyavesa avatar and it is also Lord Caitanya's philosophy. God is the Supreme Being and there is no greater power than Him. No man or devil could capture Him and tortured Him and kill him. God could never be killed or tortured by barbarians with swords and spears. That is true. But then to think that Jesus died is superfical. To think death is real for anyone is also superfical. When those barbarians came to arrest Christ His disciple Peter pulled his sword to defend him and Jesus told him not to bother. That if he said the word so many legions of angles would come to his immediate defense. He gave up his bodily life as a teaching to we materialists. Only way to God. Absolutely true. But what does that mean? First one has to understand something about who Christ is. He is Bhakti personified. Bhakti is the way, the truth, and the life and Bhakti is personal, not just some abstraction. You and I have this potential also although it is now dormant. When awakened fully you will also be able to say I am the truth the way and the life, for so you will be. The thing we often forget is that Christ also said pick up your cross and follow me. Which means that we also must learn to sacrifice the fleshly desires to fulfill the desires of the Supreme Lord. Not that Jesus did it for me so I don't have to. That is foolishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Ramanuja, along with all other Vedantins, argues that observation (pratyaksha) and inference (anumAna) simply cannot prove that God exists. They likewise cannot prove that God doesn't exist. The existence and nature of Divinity *must* be accepted on faith based on the Vedas (see Sribhashya 1.1.3). Ramanuja goes to great lengths to show how inferential arguments that try to prove the nature of God are in the end pointless. According to Vedanta, we CANNOT prove that God exists. We similarly cannot prove that God DOESN'T exist. We accept the Vedas as being the eternal, revealed, unauthored truth. The Vedas tell us that God exists. We therefore accept God's existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Very nice understanding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Shradha Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 We can never say, I am the truth, the way and the life. That is nonsence, there cannot be more then one truth. If you where the truth and I was the truth with opposing definitions of it, both cannot be right, there is no logic in that. Truth has to be hold true to the original, in other words, fidelity to the original. You and I can only accept or reject the truth but never become it. Jesus was able to say it because he is the absolute truth because he is the original, above him there is no other . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Seemed to say one thing then oppossed your self. The Absloute Truth is Krishna. When Guru says to somebody I am the way and Truth. Then what do you think that means to the disicple? It's not something to shout about is it now. Or get some political thing out of it. No need to twist it around. Just leave it as it is. Commen sence prevails again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 You say, "Above Jesus, there is no other!" But your god was killed by men with spears. A very strange religion, this is. The religion of the god who could not even save himself from being killed by mortal men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Sorry but, I do not understand. Based on what I said, is there anything of my above post where I twisted something, or are you saying it because of someone else? BTW, I will be Severo as my user name. I already registered but my name does not come up. Thanks Severo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I is talking about when Jesus Christ says `I am the way` to His disicples.`. If say somebody says to somebody 'I am the know the way to Blackpool, the other person will not say, ah well maybe I goto somebody else for now'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 quote: __________ You say, "Above Jesus, there is no other!" But your god was killed by men with spears. A very strange religion, this is. The religion of the god who could not even save himself from being killed by mortal men. ___________ But he is risen and is alive today. The mere mortals that killed him in his time even said and mocked him by saying: 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44 In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him. Matthew 27:41-44 He was killed on a cross and in that we have victory as the following passage says: 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Colossinas 2:13-15 And I do agree with you, it is very strange. But as strange as it is, he is alive and is coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 The above post is from me Severo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Based on what (Yesu_Bhaktan) said: _____________ Only way to God. Absolutely true. But what does that mean? First one has to understand something about who Christ is. He is Bhakti personified. Bhakti is the way, the truth, and the life and Bhakti is personal, not just some abstraction. You and I have this potential also although it is now dormant. When awakened fully you will also be able to say I am the truth the way and the life, for so you will be. _____________ In responce to that I said the following: ___________ We can never say, I am the truth, the way and the life. That is nonsence, there cannot be more then one truth. If you where the truth and I was the truth with opposing definitions of it, both cannot be right, there is no logic in that. Truth has to be hold true to the original, in other words, fidelity to the original. You and I can only accept or reject the truth but never become it. Jesus was able to say it because he is the absolute truth because he is the original, above him there is no other . _______________ Does it make more sence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesu_Bhaktan Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 But this is also another meaningless argument. You say, "Above Jesus, there is no other!" But your god was killed by men with spears. A very strange religion, this is. The religion of the god who could not even save himself from being killed by mortal men. Don't you know that Krishna is said to have used the excuse of being shot in the heel with an arrow by some hunter mistaking Him for a deer for His disappearance ("death") pastime? By restating this argument you are continuing to argue against Krishna being God as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesu_Bhaktan Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 We can never say, I am the truth, the way and the life. That is nonsence, there cannot be more then one truth. If you where the truth and I was the truth with opposing definitions of it, both cannot be right, there is no logic in that. Truth has to be hold true to the original, in other words, fidelity to the original. You and I can only accept or reject the truth but never become it. Jesus was able to say it because he is the absolute truth because he is the original, above him there is no other . Yes I understand what you say I just disagree. In the spiritual world or the spiritual Kingdom of God all is Absolute Truth. Truth does not oppose itself. But there is also relativity. That is we as individual children of God will have our own individual taste in how we worship and love God. You and I can only accept or reject the truth but never become it. No. This is called getting stuck on the mental plane. The mind accepts something as truth and then it may reject that same something as truth in the next moment. Truly accepting the truth means with every fiber of our being. And when we accept the truth with every fiber of our being there is nothing but the truth in our make up. We are then 100% truth because we will be saturated with knowledge of and love for God. This state is also called Krishna consciousness. It is much more than a mental or intellectual state. It is in fact oneness with God. You will know that you are one with God but as Christ said the "Father is greater than I" so even with this sense of oneness you will be conscious of the Supreme Lord as geater than you and to be served. As you grow in love of God through Christ it is not that will will turn into an exact replica of Jesus like a clone or something. You will grow into your own perfection. Jesus said be perfect even as the Father is perfect. So what does it mean to be a perfect person. Christ showed us himself as the template. A perfect person loves God with his whole mind body words and soul. That is the way the truth and the life. If you deny that possibility within yourself then you deny the very mission of Christ which is to raise us up to that perfection ourselves. Jesus Christ is not looking to build a fan club for Himself. He wants to show us who we are in relation to the Supreme Lord. You may not accept it now but in the future after you have fully matured into a pure lover of God He may send you to some distant planet to reclaim some lost souls on His behalf. Then you may say "I am the truth the way and the life no one comes to the Father but by me" and you will be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Replying to: ________________ Don't you know that Krishna is said to have used the excuse of being shot in the heel with an arrow by some hunter mistaking Him for a deer for His disappearance ("death") pastime? By restating this argument you are continuing to argue against Krishna being God as well. ________________ First, are you saying you believe in a God (Krisnha) who uses an excuse of being shot in the heel with an arrow by some hunter mistaking Him for a deer for His disappearance, ("death") pastime? And no, I did not know that. How can a God who needs an excuse or needs to come up with a story be absolute truth? In truth there can not be any false. Jesus did not use or need an excuse; there is historical evidence to show his death and resurrection as an event in history. As a matter of fact, his resurrection proves for him to be God incarnate. Replying to: ________________ Yes I understand what you say I just disagree. In the spiritual world or the spiritual Kingdom of God all is Absolute Truth. Truth does not oppose itself. But there is also relativity. That is we as individual children of God will have our own individual taste in how we worship and love God. ________________ We sure disagree; the spiritual world or kingdom of God is separate from God himself. He is the soul creator of everything else in existence. All is not Absolute Truth. You and I cannot be Absolute Truth; you, yourself have said, “Truth cannot oppose itself”, and you and I are opposing each other. As for relativity, it only works in personal opinion apart from truth. In Absolute Truth, your and my opinions are useless. My individual taste cannot dictate who God is or how I should worship him and love him. God him self already told us how to worship him and love him. Once God says something, it is! We cannot control God! Replying to: _______________ No. This is called getting stuck on the mental plane. The mind accepts something as truth and then it may reject that same something as truth in the next moment. Truly accepting the truth means with every fiber of our being. And when we accept the truth with every fiber of our being there is nothing but the truth in our make up. We are then 100% truth because we will be saturated with knowledge of and love for God. This state is also called Krishna consciousness. It is much more than a mental or intellectual state. It is in fact oneness with God. You will know that you are one with God but as Christ said the "Father is greater than I" so even with this sense of oneness you will be conscious of the Supreme Lord as geater than you and to be served. As you grow in love of God through Christ it is not that will will turn into an exact replica of Jesus like a clone or something. You will grow into your own perfection. Jesus said be perfect even as the Father is perfect. So what does it mean to be a perfect person. Christ showed us himself as the template. A perfect person loves God with his whole mind body words and soul. That is the way the truth and the life. If you deny that possibility within yourself then you deny the very mission of Christ which is to raise us up to that perfection ourselves. Jesus Christ is not looking to build a fan club for Himself. He wants to show us who we are in relation to the Supreme Lord. You may not accept it now but in the future after you have fully matured into a pure lover of God He may send you to some distant planet to reclaim some lost souls on His behalf. Then you may say "I am the truth the way and the life no one comes to the Father but by me" and you will be correct. ________________ In the context of how you have being explaining things, your version of how to be like God sounds more like this version: 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Genisis: 3:4-5 Those words where from the serpent. Thanks Severo <font color="blue"> </font color> <font color="blue"> </font color> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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