What are the qualifications for wearing a Brahmin thread?

[Guest guest]

???

[Vanguard]

Having a good size torso to complement the size and consistancy of the brahmin thread helps.

 

Oh, this is a spiritual question about Diksha, isn't it?

 

I'm not qualified :/

[Guest guest]

can i still eat products with eggs (pizza, pasta, breads) and still wear a brahmin thread?

[Guest guest]

no

[Guest guest]

would be the point? What does "wearing a brahmin thread" mean? What does it mean to you? If it's just a statement of some material rank, because your family was descended from brahmins, would you wear it to impress others? To get chicks?

 

According to the spiritual scriptures, one may be considered a brahmin if he has the qualities of a brahmin and has received the mantras and sacred thread from a qualified preceptor. Otherwise, he may call himself whatever he likes for whatever base reasons, but he's not a brahmin. If he likes to eat food made with the disgusting eggs of poor, abused chickens, he's certainly not a brahmin.

 

I don't think you have made it clear what you want to know, or why.

[Guest guest]

I have seen gurus in ISKCON that don't act like brahmins and still wear the thread, so I was just wondering what the qualifications were.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

It goes on, I don't think because you wear Brahmin Thread, you are now so great. Training, its training to become Vaishnava. True Brahmin means Vaishnava.

[Guest guest]

homosexual's shouldn't be brahmin initiated if they can't understand the basic's of spiritual life.

 

vedic culture mean's no homosexuality

[Guest guest]

definitely not a homosexual

[stonehearted]

Oh, so this is about others' qualifications (or lack thereof). And I see our friends have taken the opportunity of using this thread to anonymously criticize others. Therefore, this quotation I shared on another thread may be appropriate (if not, then feel free to ignore it and pardon my intrusion):

In a letter to a disciple, Srila Sarasvati Thakura wrote,

"Srimad-Bhagavatam has instructed us not to praise or criticise others' nature or activities. It is sadi in Sri Chaitanya Bhagavat that one goes to Hell by criticizing others. My instruction to you is to not criticize others, but to correct and purify yourself. I am forced to criticize my own disciples and those who havecome to me for instruction. I do not understand why you would go out of your way to try to perform such a difficult task."

 

[stonehearted]

Oh, so this is about others' qualifications (or lack thereof). And I see our friends have taken the opportunity of using this thread to anonymously criticize others. Therefore, this quotation I shared on another thread may be appropriate (if not, then feel free to ignore it and pardon my intrusion):

In a letter to a disciple, Srila Sarasvati Thakura wrote,

"Srimad-Bhagavatam has instructed us not to praise or criticise others' nature or activities. It is said in Sri Chaitanya Bhagavat that one goes to Hell by criticizing others. My instruction to you is to not criticize others, but to correct and purify yourself. I am forced to criticize my own disciples and those who havecome to me for instruction. I do not understand why you would go out of your way to try to perform such a difficult task."

 

[Guest guest]

are you a real guru or a real fraud, do you instruct or incourage your disciples to have homo relationship's

[stonehearted]

The real question is, What are you talking about? This thread concerned the qualifications for wearing a "brahmin thread." You've added something new and extraneous, perhaps prodded (although quite easily, apparently) by a question about qualifications of gurus.

 

Regarding the question in your last post, dear "guest," since I have no disciples, the question is irrelevant. I encourage every devotee I know to follow the practice of sadhana bhakti given by our acharyas. I also encourage them to be generous with others. I'd suggest you might benefit by trying that, too.

 

I'd further suggest that you show a little courage by at least registering with a phony name before you come here to insult others.

 

And I request the administrators of this board to keep a close eye on the goings-on, at least in this "Spritual Discussions" forum, so we can actually keep the discussions focused on spiritual topics.

[Guest guest]

But common. When folks have nothing to say, they do not follow shastra, the Mauna (silence) recommended, they still speak. This is where unwarrented criticisms come from. But in actuality, Srila Prabhupada did not offer the thread to qualified brahmanas, he offers the thread to insopire the recipient to develop brahmanical qualities.

 

A kanistha adhikari is a full vaisnava, to be respected as such. Such a devotee is still in the offensive stage, and still has many problems with materialistic way of life. The way these problems are solved are to FOLLOW the directives of the bonafide spiritual master.

 

This homophobic is way off track. I know a disciple of Srila Prabhupada who was initiated in 1967. He explained his homosexual tendencies to Srila Prabhupada prior to accepting initiation, but Srila Prabhupada did not avoid giving this person the sacred thread. I know another devotee, one who has passed away, who was an open gay in the sixties, but was a great soul and confidential friend of Srila Prabhupada, and was unhesitatingly given sanyassi initiation.'

 

Any initiation, harinam, sacred thread, sanyassi, is an agreement between disciple and spiritual master. If a homosexual promises to abide by the carefully devised formula for spiritual success given by the Spiritual Master, there is no disqualification whatsoever.

 

Dont take this post as approval for homosexual activity, because the agreement between disciple and Guru means that habits are controlled, first by minimization, then by abstainance. There is no difference in spiritual life between homosexual and heterosexual activity. Materialism means that selfish sense gratification is the goAL OF LIFE. Spiritual life means that gratification is for Krsnas purposes, not selfish ones based on false identification of the body as the self.

 

However, it is a great offense to consider past faults of a Vaisnava, so, as the other thread Sriman Babhru notes clearly indicates, chastizement is the realm of Guru, not someone viewing from the bleachers. NOD clearly states the offense to consider infirmity, physical non-attractiveness, incarceration, or past sinful activity when viewing devotees. These are simply last turns of a wheel that all power has been cut off to, like the spinning of the fan blades after the plug has been pulled.

 

Best to shut up about the sins of others, like Lord Jesus declares when he demands the sinless among us to cast the first stone. Srila Prabhupada accepted homosexual disciples, but he also accepted drug dealers, vietnam war baby killers, draft dodgers, black panthers, students for democratic society members, and even me. This is the acarya, not a pretender.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada was trying to raise us away from being homosexual's, drug dealers, etc. He never said it was ok but tolerated it for his own reason's as the archarya, but his instruction was to follow his instruction's not follow his action's.

Lord Rama may have eaten meat as a ksatrya doesn't mean we should.

 

Do not imitate the great personalities only follow there instruction's was prabhupada's instruction.

 

Prabhupada openly critisized homosexual behaviour on many morning walk conversation's (he said what is this nonsense) if you would take the time to listen to them and where is the lecture that he endorses this behaviour or is neutral, no he openly critisizes it so what does that tell you duh! he doesn't like it, but for his reason's he may tolerate it.

 

Drug dealer's shouldn't wear brahmin thread's either so what is the point are you saying prabhupada endorsed breaking regulative principles while trying to be a devotee, no the opposite but for his reason's he accepted us rascal's.

He would say purity is the force, where does he say it's ok to be impure and serve the deity.

What is your point about prabhupada.

 

Where was the critizism or deviation about the qaulification of a brahmin from myself it was merely a spiritual discussion about the rule's and reg's that must be followed for brahmin iniation laid out by the archarya.

 

If your following four regulative principle's where is the question of sexuality homo or hetro, so if your brahmin why say i am hetrosexual or homosexual or bisexual, if you want children then get married and have children, if you have come to level of brahmin then your not the body, i am a women, i am a man, a homo, a hetro, a bi what is this nonsense.

Srila Prabhupada left us instruction's that must not be watered down into anything goes religion like so many other's have, stick to your principle's given by the archrya do not imitate but follow.

 

So what i am trying to say you tell me and don't be sentimental about it just "AS IT IS"

[Guest guest]

brahmin iniation means no more.....ANIMALISM

 

Which means i am not the body, i am spirit soul and following 4 reg's and chanting sixteen round's a day plus three times of gayatri mantra also and eat only offered vegetarian food stuff's to the lord.

Aslo rising early in the morning for meditation etc.

It's not for eveybody only the more seriuos devotee's otherwise first iniation is sufficient, also depending on your guru's instruction.

 

signature "AS IT IS"

Oh yeah i am a brahmin iniated devotee.

[stonehearted]

"Guest": "brahmin iniation means no more.....ANIMALISM

 

Which means i am not the body, i am spirit soul and following 4 reg's and chanting sixteen round's a day plus three times of gayatri mantra also and eat only offered vegetarian food stuff's to the lord.

Aslo rising early in the morning for meditation etc.

It's not for eveybody only the more seriuos devotee's otherwise first iniation is sufficient, also depending on your guru's instruction.

 

signature "AS IT IS"

Oh yeah i am a brahmin iniated devotee."

 

Good for you! Congratulations! So do it!

[Guest guest]

so somebody philisophicaly defeat the argument raised by "AS IT IS" about the words of the archrya, see nobody can, because they come straight from the source, no body can argue with that.

Don't speculate about the mind of the archrya and what he think's is right or wrong simply listen and follow his instructions, don't make your own assumption.

 

If Prabhupada say's something is nonsense then we don't except it, simple as that, don't try to rationalize through sentiment and look for a way to justify it, just except his word's as truth or you have no faith.

Were not here to please peoples sentimentality and feelings, we speak truth on the highest level and should not be compromised by hurt feelings.

 

Arjuna was hurt by illusion from sentimental feelings which was apposed to krishna's will but krishna corrected him and said fight for truth which is my will and nothing else

, so krishna work's through the archrya and if the archrya says it is nonsene then krishna says it is nonsense, if the archrya rejects it then krishna rejects it, who can argue with that?

 

Please be philisophical not sentimental and say it "AS IT IS"

 

Jaya Srila Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

your way off, don't try to speculate about Prabhupada's motive's and why he did what he did, you cannot understand the mind of the archrya

Simply follow the instructions.

 

AS IT IS

[Kulapavana]

traditionally in the Vedic culture, brahmana thread is worn by all the dvijas. that system had a different set of rules and requirements than those set by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and his followers.

 

in the broadest sense, the sacred thread can be worn by all those who have received the Gayatri mantra from an authentic guru (and thus deemed worthy of this mantra), and who are serious about spiritual practice (sadhana).

 

as to following the regs as a pre-requisite for brahmana initiation... Srila Thakura Bhaktivinode gave up eating meat at age 42, only after receiving his diksa and sacred thread from Vipina Vihari Gosvami. In his autobiography Thakura writes:

 

"299. While I was living in Narail I took diksha along with my wife. I had been searching for a suitable guru for a long time but I did not find one. I was very unhappy [on that account]. I had done much anxious thinking, and in a dream Prabhu diminished my unhappiness.

 

300. In the dream I got a hint. That day I became happy. One or two days later Gurudeva wrote to me saying, "I will come quickly and give you diksha." Gurudeva came and diksha was given. My mind was satisfied. From that very day the sin of meat-eating went from my heart and mercy arose [in me] towards the jivas."

 

so, prabhuji, please have more compassion in your heart for struggling jivas in this world, regardless of the flavor of their material contamination.

 

[Guest guest]

So this is how you sign, but are you. You say Im way off the mark, but you are the one who has assumed to be the guru, carrying out your chastizement where Srila Prabhupada had none.

 

You failed to read my post, yet you criticize so lavishly. I assume you think that Im saying the Guru says homo activity is OK, but there is nowhere where this is said. AS IT IS means we do not change anything, and Srila Prabhupada affirms that no amount of sinful activity, this life or past lives, can stand with one pure utterance of Harinam.

 

So you contend, perhaps, correct me if I am wrong, that Srila Prabhupada, under your control of him with your brahmana thread, refuses to consider anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity? That Lord Chaitanyas Movement, which makes even the likes of Jagai and Madhai into actual leaders and branches of this movement, discriminates against one who has succumbed to physical urges of passion if such passion is directed toward the same sex? But if the same misdirected passion is directed toward the other se4x, even more exploitative and hedonistic, even more brutal and perverted in many cases, everything is OK?

 

I think not. You are not the acarya, so you should quit trying to screen the world from who you imagine to be your spiritual master. You say you wear a sacred thread given by Prabhupada, but you refuse to believe what He has said, AS IT IS, that he gave you this thread in HOPES that you develop some brahmanical traits, especially forgiveness, compassion, tolerance, etc.

 

This aint hanratty or limbaugh as it is, Srila Prabhupada is actual acarya, sets example. The great homophobs are secretly engaged in such activity latently, writing child porn books, always busted and embarassed when they are "outed". The devotees i mentioned joked about being "perverted reflections of the perverted reflection" when they openly discussed their past activities, but the homophobs in the movement never treat their own sinful pasts with as much faith that Srila Prabhupada has rectified such activity.

 

Get off your out-of topic soapbox and go listen to your Fox Gurus. Srila Prabhupada EQUALLY discourages all sinful activity, does not pick out one type from another, as being better or worse. In fact, he had a saying, very amusing, about the difference between the dry stool facing the sun and the wet stool at the bottom of the pile.

 

as far as your request to follow instructions, this is ludicrous coming from you, whose whole contribution to this topic is against HIS theme of thinking all others deserve respect while the disciple expects none, against HIS theme that we consider all others more advanced while we ourselves have no advancement. And how can you possibly say to one whom you do not know that he cannot understand the mind of the acarya. A disciple does understand the mind of the acarya, this is how one is pleasing to the acarya, shastra is full of the nectar of devotees understanding the acarya. What you say from your position as phony guru is that guru cannot be known, therefore he is a cheater trying to get disciples to KNOW HIM AND HE WHO SENT HIM.

 

There is only one false doctrine on this topic line, and it springs from one who wears a sacred thread. So, what are the qualifications. Just owning a thread, and an empty shoulder to hang it on, according to this "as it is" person.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[stonehearted]

Kulapavana: "as to following the regs as a pre-requisite for brahmana initiation... Srila Thakura Bhaktivinode gave up eating meat at age 42, only after receiving his diksa and sacred thread from Vipina Vihari Gosvami."

 

I haven't seen any evidence that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura received a sacred thread, or that he ever wore one. I have never seen a picture of Bhaktivinoda Thakura with a sacred thread (which has raised a question in my mind about a picture I've seen of Lalita Prasad Thakura wearing a sacred thread). Have you? Anyone?

[Guest guest]

why don't you replace prabupada as archrya since you seem to know everything, you could even do a better job at teaching us spiritual principle's like QOUTE from prabhupada morning walk lecture> homo sex is nonsense.

So prabhupada critisized many things, rightly so, his he then uncompassionate, no but a spade is a spade and the truth is to be spoken by a qaulified person that is why i am qouting prabhupada because he is qaulified to critisize.

I am not perfect, but prabhupada was, so something imperfect cannot fully understand that which is perfect, so mahaka are you perfect? if not then you cannot know fully know prabhupada's mind only partially, so it sound's like your getting worked up mahaka why don't you take a chill pill relax and put your ego aside, chance's are your not perfect like me.

So take prabhupada's instruction as it is and stop being so sentimental and slanderess, what's your story mahaka have you had a bad experiance with devotee's or something, it's just a philosophical discussion between civilized people, i think you might have a chip on your shoulder about this website or why you so worked up, you sound like your about to start swearing.

 

Oh glorie's to the next archrya mahak prabhupada

 

Ki jaya!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Getting back on topic, Here are my current qualifications:

 

I chant 16 rounds/day, read SB, BG, and CC daily. However, I am not following all of the reg. principles.

 

1) I practice "manual self pleasure"

2) No meat, but still eat eggs.

3) I drink soda and coffee

4) I play online poker about 3 times/week.

 

 

 

 

[Kulapavana]

"I haven't seen any evidence that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura received a sacred thread, or that he ever wore one."

---------

 

perhaps you are right, but I have heard that he did receive sacred thread at that time. different parivars had different customs in that regard. anyway, I am not sure about that issue. it is not clear from any reliable sources I have come across.