What are the qualifications for wearing a Brahmin thread?

[Guest guest]

"1) I practice "manual self pleasure"

 

What does that mean?

[stonehearted]

"Guest": "Getting back on topic, Here are my current qualifications:

 

I chant 16 rounds/day, read SB, BG, and CC daily. However, I am not following all of the reg. principles.

 

1) I practice "manual self pleasure"

2) No meat, but still eat eggs.

3) I drink soda and coffee

4) I play online poker about 3 times/week."

 

Well, I'd say your chanting and daily reading are good signs, but that you may need to engage in them with more of your heart. Eventually, that will purify you of the impulse to abuse yourself in these ways, and may help you become more ready for the responsibilities of a diksha disciple. If I were accepting disciples and someone in this position approached me, I'd certainly encourage him or her on those practices accepted, as well as his or her honesty, and suggest that we have some ways to go before we're ready for initiation.

[Guest guest]

TRANSLATION

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor—these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.--Gita

 

[stonehearted]

Ah--well played, anonymous friend!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

I haven't seen any evidence that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura received a sacred thread, or that he ever wore one. I have never seen a picture of Bhaktivinoda Thakura with a sacred thread (which has raised a question in my mind about a picture I've seen of Lalita Prasad Thakura wearing a sacred thread). Have you? Anyone?

--

 

In the Guru Paramapara thread [last posts] I did some links. It says in this [sorry i dunno want to paste its far to complicated affair], that Bhaktivinda accepted initation as formalality, because in those days because of the caste goswamis [i'm sure u know all this lol], so they would respect. Also in that same thread it says that dikya you need, but siksa is main substance.

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Stonehearted. I find myself slowly going back to my old habits and the problem is I don't have anyone to help me stay on track. Maybe I should start associating with devotees more, because honestly I haven't been to the temple in almost two years.

[Kulapavana]

Pankaja dasa: "It says in this [sorry i dunno want to paste its far to complicated affair], that Bhaktivinda accepted initation as formalality, because in those days because of the caste goswamis [i'm sure u know all this lol], so they would respect."

--------------------

That is NOT the way Thakura saw it. Here again is the quote from his autobiography:

 

"299. While I was living in Narail I took diksha along with my wife. I had been searching for a suitable guru for a long time but I did not find one. I was very unhappy [on that account]. I had done much anxious thinking, and in a dream Prabhu diminished my unhappiness.

 

300. In the dream I got a hint. That day I became happy. One or two days later Gurudeva wrote to me saying, "I will come quickly and give you diksha." Gurudeva came and diksha was given. My mind was satisfied. From that very day the sin of meat-eating went from my heart and mercy arose [in me] towards the jivas."

 

does that look like a mere formality to you?

 

sometimes the followers of a great personality create a lot of myth around their beloved leader. In doing so they distort reality and obscure the lessons Krishna wants us to learn from the appearance of such great devotees.

 

[Kulapavana]

Regarding his diksa guru, Bhaktivinoda writes in his Bhagavat-arka-marici-mala, written in 1901:

 

vipina-vihari prabhu mama prabhu-vara

sri-vamsi-vadanananda-vamsa-sasadhara

 

"My master, Vipina-vihari Prabhu, the greatest of my masters, is the brilliant moon in the family of Sri Vamsi Vadanananda."

 

Amrta-pravaha Bhasya on Caitanya Caritamrta, written in 1895:

 

vipina-vihari hari, tara sakti avatari

vipina-vihari prabhu-vara

sri-guru-goswami-rupe, dekhi more bhava-kupe

uddharilo apana kinkara

 

"The eminent Vipina-vihari Prabhu, who is the manifestation of the transcendental energy of Lord Hari, Who sports in the forests of Vraja, has descended in the form of the Gosvami spiritual preceptor. Seeing me in the dark well of worldly existence, he has delivered this humble servant of his."

 

In the last verse of the Siddhi-lalasa of Gita-mala, Bhaktivinoda prays to Vipina Vihari Gosvami in his siddha-deha as Vilasa Manjari (written in 1893):

 

vilasa manjari, ananga manjari,

sri rupa manjari ara

amake tuliya, loha nija pade,

deha more siddhi sara

 

"Vilasa Manjari, Ananga Manjari and Sri Rupa Manjari, please uplift me and give me the shelter of your lotus feet, for by your mercy I shall be awarded the essence of all spiritual perfection."

 

 

 

does that look like a "mere formality" relationship to you?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

I understand that you must always respect your Gurudeva, that I see. Though Bhaktisiddhanta said that His Gurudeva was not so qualified, even went as far as to say He was Kanisthi-adhikari [caste goswamis etc]. So on one side Bhaktivinoda respected His Gurudeva, but on other side Bhaktisiddhanta saw that He wasn't as qualified, hence Jaganattha dasa babaji was His MAIN Guru.

 

Though I did read about that Bhaktivinoda special orders for Bhaktisiddhanta was to establish Daivi Varnasrara System, but I'm not sure what that is.

[stonehearted]

Guest: "Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Stonehearted. I find myself slowly going back to my old habits and the problem is I don't have anyone to help me stay on track. Maybe I should start associating with devotees more, because honestly I haven't been to the temple in almost two years."

 

I suggest that you find association with devotees who can encourage you by their example and won't judge you based on their own insecurities. The association of favorably inclined devotees who are more advanced than we are--that's the key to becoming steady (and then progressive) in our practice. If there's anything I can do to help, don't hesitate to ask.

 

And please call me Babhru.

[Kulapavana]

these are very deep subjects. why was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta so harsh on Bipina Bihari? they were ALL great souls, so their arguments were transcendental. However, we mere sadhakas must be very, very careful as to not create the impression, that Bipina Bihari was somehow unqualified as a guru. there are differences of opinion even in Goloka, but there is no malice or other material contamination.