Popular versions of Mahabharat are entirely wrong

[Guest guest]

There are too many mistakes and outright lies in the recent and popular versions of Mahabharat. According Vyasa MB, Bhimasena was the only undefeatable (and undefeated) warrior, not Arjuna. Arjuna lost many times to both Karna and Bhishma in Kurukstra war, but was saved on each occasion by Krishna's skill.

 

In fact, most of these popular versions skip Arjuna's defeats and go straight to the final event where he slays Karna/Bhishma, thus making him look invincible. Whereas, the same popular versions have the erroneous notion that Bhimasena lost to Karna and others. In Vyasa MB, Bhimasena defeats Bhishma and Karna 17 times.

 

Even SP's interpretations are wrong, they are not based on Vyasa's MB. He too has the mistaken idea that Bhimasena lost and Arjuna never lost, when it is the other way around according to Vyasa himself.

 

I hope these corrections are made, so MB will have some authenticity. Or, no one will take Krishna Consciousness seriously when there are serious errors in MB itself, which is worshipped by many as the 5th Veda.

[Guest guest]

of the Mahabharata?

[Kulapavana]

"Even SP's interpretations are wrong, they are not based on Vyasa's MB. He too has the mistaken idea that Bhimasena lost and Arjuna never lost, when it is the other way around according to Vyasa himself."

 

can you cite the specific references?

 

what do you think about Ganguli's full translation of MB into English?

 

[Guest guest]

what do you think about Ganguli's full translation of MB into English?***

 

What do YOU think?

[Kulapavana]

I definitely like it (from both devotional and scholarly point of view), but it is hard for me to make a true evaluation, since I have only abridged English editions to compare it to. It is the only full translation into English - a truly monumental undertaking. I know there are some minor differences between Ganguli's and SP's portreyal of events (like the timing of the rajasuya sacrifice, which is quite obviously an error - not corrected to this very day)

[Guest guest]

<<< In fact, most of these popular versions skip Arjuna's defeats and go straight to the final event where he slays Karna/Bhishma >>>

 

That isn't equal to lying. I may tell you it's cold outside but may not tell you that it is snowing as well. Doesn't mean I'm lying.

 

<<< Bhimasena was the only undefeatable (and undefeated) warrior >>>

 

Undefeated ... perhaps. Undefeatable ... NO. It was widely regarded that Duryodhana was his equal. It was again only Sri Krishna's intervention that pulled Bhima out of many tricky situations.

 

 

[Gaea]

I'm currently reading K.Subramaniam's version - it's not a verse for verse translation but it;s very nice.... haven't got to the war yet so don't know about whether there are any refs for Arjuna defeats.

[Guest guest]

That isn't equal to lying. I may tell you it's cold outside but may not tell you that it is snowing as well. Doesn't mean I'm lying.***

 

So you admit to concealing the truth, if not outright lying.

 

Undefeated ... perhaps. Undefeatable ... NO. It was widely regarded that Duryodhana was his equal. It was again only Sri Krishna's intervention that pulled Bhima out of many tricky situations.***

 

No pramaanas for this statement. Krishna had to save Arjuna on many, many occasions even before the war began. Not so in Bhima's case.

[Gaea]

 

Krishna had to save Arjuna on many, many occasions even before the war began. Not so in Bhima's case.

 

 

 

That's not completely true. For example, Bhima could never have defeated Jarasandh if Krsna hadn't have told him how.

[Avinash]

Are you trying to say that mistakes have been made while translating MB from Sanskrit into English?

 

Isn't it True that Karna once defeated four Pandavas (excluding Arjuna) but spared their lives because of his promise to Kunti?

 

You have written that Arjuna lost many

times to both Karna and Bhisma. Can you post one such incident from Vyasa MB?

[Guest guest]

It is not available on the net. You don't expect me to type the whole thing, do you? Anyway, Karna defeated 3 brothers but in Arjuna's case, he was foiled by Krishna every time he defeated him and was about to finish him off. Many instances were given during the 11-17 days where Karna had Arjuna right under his grip when Krishna saved him each time with his charioteering (sp) skills. In short, Arjuna retreated most of the time while fighting Karna and Bhishma.

 

Regarding Bhima losing to Karna, there's no proof for that in Vyas MB. Both Karna and Bhishma lost to Bhima 17 times, according to Vyas. So it is your choice, you can believe in Vyas or in TV shows and (mis)interpretations made by 'great' teachers and scholars.

[Guest guest]

Bhima could've defeated anyone (except Krishna) but was made to look dependent on Krishna as part of a lesson for humanity that even the strongest of them like Bhima, who had the power of a thousand elephants, should depend on Krishna for his strength and not become arrogant on account of his prowess. Incidents with Jarasandha convey these lessons, they do not point to Bhima's vulnerability. It has been acknowledged by all devatas, including Sankar, that only Krishna was more powerful than Bhimasena.

[Gaea]

ok

[Guest guest]

Humility is essential for understanding these sublime truths. Keep it up!

[Guest guest]

<< It has been acknowledged by all devatas, including Sankar, that only Krishna was more powerful than Bhimasena. >>

 

There is an incident where Bhima confronts Hanuman and not knowing who it is, orders him out of the way. When Hanuman refuses, Bhima uses his might and is unable to move so much as the tail of Hanuman!

 

If he was more powerful than anyone else besides Krishna, you would expect him to have at least been able to lift Lord Hanuman's tail!

 

[Guest guest]

Only on TV shows, you find such incidents. lol. Bhima and Hanuman are both incarnations of Vayu, how can one be stronger than the other? It is like saying Krisha is stronger than Ram, when they are both one and the same.

[Gaea]

comprehensive version can be found here:

 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/

 

[Guest guest]

but authentic? Hmm, I suppose not.

[Guest guest]

... I read it somewhere, don't remember where though. Anyway, I can't vouch for the authenticity of that incident, so if it isn't in any of the recognized writings on MB, you're probably right.

[Avinash]

I was not asking for the original MB to be posted. In English translations of MB I have read that Karna once defeated Bhima. So, I wanted to know what you think of that. I was not trying to say that the story of Bhima losing to Karna is true. I was also not trying to say that it is false. I have not read original MB. So, I cannot say one way or another. I just wanted to know what you think of this.

 

Also, I wanted some incidents from original MB (not present in popular translations) where Arjuna lost to Karna. I was not looking for complete text to be posted from original MB; just one or two incidents (translated into English) which show that Arjuna lost to Karna.

[Guest guest]

so if it isn't in any of the recognized writings on MB, you're probably right.***

 

Even if it is, I am right. Going by this logic, you can also say Parashuram was inferior to Ram because he was defeated, when both of them are one.

[Avinash]

You have written that popular translations are wrong. Is there any particular translation (even if not available on Net) which you consider as authentic? Or, are you talking based on Sanskrit version itself?

[Kulapavana]

"Going by this logic, you can also say Parashuram was inferior to Ram because he was defeated, when both of them are one."

 

They are most certainly NOT one. Parasurama was just a shaktyavesa avatara in the jiva tattva category, while Lord Rama was Bhagavan and Vishnu-tattva.

 

DONT look at these things like people who try to compare Superman to Batman. It is very material and does not lead anywhere.

[Guest guest]

and needless to say, it is flawed. Parashurama was Vishnu Himself, as stated in the puranas. Show me some evidence (preferably not iskcon) that suggests that Parashuram wasn't Vishnu. Every acharya has declared that the avatars starting from matsya to kalki (and even other avatars like Hans, Kapila) are non-different from Vishnu. So don't pull this iskcon trick that even though they are one, they're different etc. etc. They are all the same, that's what the Vedic scriptures declare.

[Guest guest]

what you said about Parashuram was blasphemy. You are a shameless person to include Supreme Vishnu in the category of jivas where you and your less intelligent friends belong.