Guru Parampara

[Guest guest]

<h2>Guru Parampara</h2>

 

Mahaprabhu Sri Chaitanya gave diksa to one, or at most two devotees: Vakreswara Pandit, and the child Chaitanya das (we may think he initiated Chaitanya das based on what we read in Chaitanya Charitamrta).

 

Sri Sanatana Goswami was the disciple of Vidya Vacaspati. He received direct instruction (siksa) from Mahaprabhu himself. Sanatan was Sri Rupa's Guru and like his brother Sanatan, Sri Rupa also received siksa directly from Mahaprabhu.

 

Sri Jiva Goswami was the initiated disciple of Sri Rupa Goswami.

 

Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami was the initiated disciple of Sri Yadunandana Acharya, who was initiated by Sri Advaita Acharyya. However, in Chaitanya Charitamrta we read that Mahaprabhu told Sri Swarup Damodar Goswami to accept Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami as his disciple, and in the description of the "Chaitanya tree", the family tree presented by Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami in Chaitanya Charitamrta, we read that Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami is listed as a student of his siksa guru Sri Swarup Damodara and not as a disciple in the lineage of his diksa guru Sri Yadunandana Acharya. This fact is not without significance.

 

Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami says the Six Goswamis were his siksa Gurus (CC Adi 1.36). He says his Guru is Sri Nityananda Prabhu - and it has been suggested, by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (CC Adi 1.40), that Sri Nityananda Prabhu Himself initiated Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami. This initiation took place in a dream.

 

Srila Narottama das Thakur was initiated by Srila Lokanatha Goswami. However, in his song Sri Rupa Manjari Pada and other places he states that Sri Rupa Goswami is all-in-all for him.

 

Srila Narottama das Thakur writes in "Prarthana":

<blockquote>

prabhu lokanatha kabe sange lana jabe

sri-rupera pada-padme more samarpibe

When will my master, Lokanatha Gosvami,

place me at the lotus feet of Srila Rupa Gosvami?

- song 17

 

In song 19, he writes:

1. sri-rupa pascate ami rahiba bhita hana

donhe punah kahibena ama pane cana

I quietly follow behind Sri Rupa-manjari.

When will she say to me: "Fetch some water for the Divine Couple?

2. sadaya hrdaya donhe kahibena hasi

kothaya paile rupa ei naba dasi

When will the Divine Couple, compassionately smiling, say:

"Where has Rupa-manjari gotten this young maidservant?"

3. sri-rupa-manjari tabe donha bakya suni

manjulali dila more ei dasi ani

Hearing these words, Sri Rupa-manjari will say:

"This maidservant was given to me by Manjulali. (the spiritual name of Sri Lokanath Goswami)"

</blockquote>

Here we see how there can be a zig-zag path of Guru-parampara. As in the case of Narottama das Thakur's friend Syamananda Prabhu who received diksa from Hridaya-Chaitanya Prabhu, but who then became a disciple of Sri Jiva Goswami and a follower of Sri Rupa Manjari. The Guru who gives us our ultimate fulfilment in our loving search for the service of Sri Krishna, that Guru is the most important link between an individual soul and the Divine Master.

 

In the Guru-parampara list given by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur he has listed Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti as the next link, after Srila Narottama das Thakur. But it is to be noted that Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti was initiated by Radha-raman Chakravarti, a disciple of Krishna-charan Chakravarti, who was a disciple of Ganga-narayan Chakravarti. This Sri Ganganarayan Chakravarti was the initiated disciple of Srila Narottama das Thakur. Thus there is in fact a gap of three generations between Srila Narottama das Thakur and Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti.

<blockquote>

sampradaya-pranali ki sampurna-rupa rakha haiyacche?

madhye madhye ye sakala pradhana acharyya haiyacchen,

tahader namasakala sampradaya pranalite acche.

TRANSLATION:

Vrajanatha asked, "Are there complete lists of spiritual masters in the guru-paramparas?"

Sri Raghunatha dasa Babaji answered, "From time to time, the more important spiritual master's names are included in these lists. It is just the names of the most important acharyyas that are included in the guru-parampara lists."

- Jaiva Dharma, chapter 13

</blockquote>

In the Guru-parampara list given by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, he lists Baladeva Vidyabhusana as a disciple of Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti. It is to be noted that Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti was the siksaguru of Baladeva. Baladeva was initiated by Radha Damodara Goswami in Puri.

 

Srila Jagannatha das Babaji is the next Acharya listed in the Guru-parampara list given by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur. Srila Jagannath Das Babaji was initiated by Jagadananda Goswami of Shringar Vat, a descendant of Nityananda Prabhu. According to Bihari das Babaji, the personal servant of Srila Jagannatha das Babaji and a good friend of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, Srila Jagannatha das Babaji received vesha (ordination into the Babaji status of life) from Madhusudana Das Babaji.

 

The initiating Guru of Madhusudana Das Babaji is unknown. And the story about this is very famous:

<blockquote>

One day he was sitting on the bank of the Jamuna contemplating the idea of taking initiation from some Vaishnava Mahanta. Suddenly an Acharya of the lineage of Gangamata Goswamini came there to take his bath in the river. That Mahanta instructed Madhusudana to take bath in the Jamuna and afterwards he would initiate him. Filled with joy, Madhusudana immediately did as he was directed and the Mahatma initiated him into the Dasakshara (ten-lettered) mantra, explaining to him the import of the mantra. After receiving the mantra Madhusudana went into a trance. When he regained external consciousness the Mahatma had vanished before he could even ask his identity.

 

Madhusudana began chanting the mantra and roamed from one place to another, eventually arriving at Manasi Ganga. There he took shelter at the lotus feet of Krishnadas Babaji saying, "I am an uneducated boy, please be merciful to me and instruct me about performing bhajan. Seeing the boy's spiritual effulgence, Krishnadas Babaji asked his identity and Madhusudana told him everything. After hearing his story Krishnadas Baba said, "You know that our method of performing raganuga bhajan must have its hereditary link, that link is established by knowing the lineage of your guru, but you know nothing about your guru's identity or his family. Thus you have no right to do raganuga bhajan. Yet you have been given a mantra, therefore you should not be initiated again. For these reasons I cannot teach you bhajan."

 

Hearing Krishnadas Babaji's words Madhusudana burst out crying. This touched the heart of Siddha Baba, who then instructed him to go to Siddha Jayakrishna Dasa Babaji of Kamyavana, who had the power to tell him about his Gurudeva's identity and lineage.

 

Madhusudana hurried to Kamyavana and Jayakrishna Das Babaji listened to his story. However, Jayakrishna das Babaji did not want to deviate from the custom of the sects and thus he said, "You should not disregard the factor of your diksa. It is clear that in the present situation you have no right to do raganuga bhajan. Go and do Harinama alone and whatever is the desire of Sri Mahaprabhu and Srimati Radharani, that will come to pass. It may be that your guru, who is the representative of God, has given you the initiation you desired, it is he who will fulfill the rest of your desire."

 

Feeling extremely depressed Sri Madhusudana went to Radha kunda. He began to think, "If I am not entitled to do bhajan then what is the use of keeping this body alive. Tonight I will drown myself in the waters of Sri Kunda." That evening at midnight he tied a Govardhana sila around his neck and dove into the water of Sri Kunda and sank deep into the water. Suddenly, someone took off the stone from around his neck, put a piece of palm leaf in his hand and threw him on the bank of the kunda. When the morning came Madhusudana was disappointed that he had not died, but was happy to find the palm leaf in his hand. He then went to Krishnadas Babaji of Govardhana and told him everything, except about the palm leaf. Krishnadas Babaji sent him to Jayakrishna das Babaji of Kamyavana. Jayakrishna das Babaji saw the palm leaf and said, "You have attained the extraordinary mercy of Sri Radha. Go back to Sri Radha kunda and pray to Sri Radha and she will not doubt fulfil you desire by bestowing her mercy upon you."

 

Madhusudana did as he was instructed and, that night, Sri Radha appeared and instructed him, "Go and stay at Surya kunda and practice bhajan there, you will attain your perfection there. Do not give diksa in the mantra which has been given by me, but keep it a secret throughout your life."

</blockquote>

Later in his life Madhusudana taught many disciples about bhajan but he never gave mantra diksa to anyone.

 

From this story we can see some things about the traditions which were prominent in the 17th century at Radha Kunda and other places. It was supposed, by Krishnadas Babaji and Jayakrishna das Babaji etc., that a disciple must know the names of all the initiating Gurus in one's hereditary parampara. That is to say, a parampara was considered to be a tradition that passes on from one hereditary link to the next through a succession of diksa-gurus and their disciples. This of course is in stark contrast to what we see when we read the life stories of Raghunath das Goswami, Syamananda Prabhu and Narottama Das Thakura - devotees in the founding generation of the Gaudiya sampradaya.

 

Srila Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaj had many disciples unto whom he gave Babaji ordination. One of those disciples, Bhagavat das Babaji Maharaj, gave vesha (Babaji ordination) to Srila Gaura Kisore Dasa Babaji Maharaj, the Guru of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

 

According to some sources, Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji received diksa from Nandakisora Gosvami of the Advaita Acharya lineage at Shantipura. According to other sources, he received diksa from Nimai Chand Goswami in the line of Jahnava Thakurani (Jahnava devi, Bircandra, Hari Gopal Mishra, Hanu Priya Mishra, Madan Mohan Goswami, Isvarananda Mishra, Paramanda Mishra, Piyari Mohan Goswami, Ramadev Mishra, Nimai Chand Goswami, Gaura Kishora das Babaji). We do know Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji received vesha (Babaji ordination) from Bhagavat das Babaji Maharaj, and that Bhagavat das Babaji received vesha from Srila Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaj. And we also know that Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur felt that the real spirit of Guru-parampara was not the parampara passes on through a tradition of initiating gurus and initiating disciples, but instead that sometimes a highly qualified siksa-guru will be the link to Sri Rupa Goswami and to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna's service.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura's diksa guru was Bipin Bihari Goswami. However Bipin Bihari Goswami rejected Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura because of differences that they had in regard to the Mayapura yogapitha. Also, it is a fact that Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur did not regard Bipin Bihari Goswami as a genuine Acharya. He in fact "re-initiated" one disciple of Bipin Bihari Goswami (that disciple being Bharati Maharaja).

 

Srila Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj became ecstatic and danced with joy (even though he was over 100 years old), when he first arrived at the place in Mayapura that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura had thought was the birthplace of Mahaprabhu. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura chose to have faith in Srila Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj, and to also have faith in the revelations he himself had had in regard to the Mayapura Yogapitha. This path he chose to walk brought him into conflict with Bipin Bihari Goswami (who was affiliated with other persons who felt that the birthplace of Mahaprabhu was on the other side of the Ganga). Yes, it is an unfortunate fact of life that sometimes a disciple will find their true spiritual Guardian is someone other than the person who has given them initiation into the chanting of Sri Hari Nama. But nevertheless, and notwithstanding the fact that this situation may cause the disciple some distress, we may have faith that we are safe and that we have received full shelter from the Lord, if we sincerely continue walking along the path of surrender. Krishna says:

 

Bg. 9.31

"O Arjuna, declare it boldly to the public, that My devotee will never perish."

 

[Guest guest]

TRANSLATION

“My dear Sakara Mallika, from this day your names will be changed to Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatana. Now please abandon your humility, for My heart is breaking to see you so humble.

 

PURPORT

Actually this is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s initiation of Dabira Khasa and Sakara Mallika. They approached the Lord with all humility, and the Lord accepted them as old servants, as eternal servants, and He changed their names. It is to be understood from this that it is essential for a disciple to change his name after initiation.

 

YB

[Guest guest]

It is an interesting quote. Notice this statement also, written by Srila Prabhupada and published in the March 1960 Back To Godhead:

<blockquote>

Viswanath Chakrabarty accepted Jagannath Das Babajee from whom Srila Bhaktivinode Thakore was initiated and Srila Gour Kishore Das Babajee the spiritual master of Om Vishnupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupad-the Divine spiritual Master of our humble self.

</blockquote>

But Bhaktivinode Thakur accepted diksa from Bipin Bihari Goswami in 1881, and he never received diksa or any mantra at all from Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji. Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji was his siksa guru. Not his diksa guru.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Post deleted by Pankaja_Dasa

[Guest guest]

We have to follow the spirit; otherwise after Jahnava devi, the wife of Lord Nityananda, up to

Bipina Goswami, from whom Bhaktivinoda Thakura took initiation, there are so many unknown

lady gurus. Through them, the mantra came to Bipina Goswami, and from him Bhaktivinoda

Thakura received the mantra. We accept Bhaktivinoda Thakura, but should we count all those

ladies in our disciplic succession? What was their realization?

- Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaj

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

What Prabhupada said above, to avoid speculating. I am happy to say Lord Nityananda initiated and we in same line. I mean, once Naraotamma dasa Thakura, then again as Jahnavai devi. BHAKTI! IS FLOWING

[Guest guest]

Pankaja, this topic is discussed on the old chakra web site by Jayadvaita Swami and Dhira Govinda dasa.

 

http://www.oldchakra.com/articles/2000/07/04/conflict.resolution.dgovinda/index.htm

 

It is a fact that Jagannatha das Babaji Maharaj did not initiate Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Before the debate gets going on who initiated who the word initiation should be defined.

 

That won't happen most likely.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Maybe its obvious or not. But Prabhupada says that Bhaktivinoda was initiated by Jagannatha dasa Babaji.

 

Formal or no formal. You can do it over the phone. So Guru can do it, by looking at you. No need for banana skin Prabhu.

[Guest guest]

 

Formal or no formal. You can do it over the phone. So Guru can do it, by looking at you. No need for banana skin Prabhu.

 

 

But what is the nature of the "it" that you refer to?

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

A banana skin doesn't give Diksaya by 'it' self. You need Guru for it. Guru can give anytime anyplace anywhere. Narada gave to the Hunter, what was the qualification of the hunter, I don't know except he listened to Narada.

 

Thought 'it' can refer to hearing from a Spiritual Master, Siksa. [Watering process]. Dikya usually involves initation into a Mantra is it not [which the Guru gives]. But what if Guru doesn't give a mantra, does that mean there is no Diksya? As long as Guru desires whatever mantra the disicple is chanted THAT mantra [which he already has] is purified.

[Guest guest]

Guru gives "it". But what is it that he gives?

 

"Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.-- CC Madhya 4.111 purport

[Guest guest]

 

In the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, second vilasa, Sanatana and Gopala Bhatta Gosvamis give a very detailed explanation of the process of diksha. In that description the whole process is summarized by saying that the only necessary and indeed essential act in initiation is the speaking or giving of the mantra. The mantra given, in the Gaudiya Sampradaya, is generally this mantra: Klim Krishnaya Govindaya Gopijanavallabhaya Svaha. The mantra is to be spoken by the guru into the disciple's right ear (Hari-bhakti-vilasa 2.243-6).

 

Then again, there is also this verse written by Sri Rupa Goswami that we must also consider:

<blockquote>

One should mentally honor the devotee who chants the holy name of Lord Krsna, one should offer humble obeisances to the devotee who has undergone spiritual initiation [diksa] and is engaged in worshiping the Deity, and one should associate with and faithfully serve that Pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others.

- Upadeshamrtam, verse 5

</blockquote>

 

Devotees who have received the "Hari Nama Mantra" from a Guru (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, etc) should be shown respect within the mind. Devotees who a genuine Guru has given diksa to (having spoken into their ear the kamagayatri mantra "Klim Kamadevaya etc." or the mantra "Klim Krishnaya Govindaya Gopijanavallabhaya Svaha"), those devotees should be offered obeisances.

 

This is the proper explanation for diksa, as presented by Sri Sanatan Goswami etc.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Can Guru take away Diksya that He has already given?

[Guest guest]

Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaj totally rejected some disciples.

 

Bipin Bihari Goswami rejected Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur but that doesn't mean that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur had no Guru connecting him to the Lord.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur had received the grace of Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji Maharaj (who danced with joy when he was brought to the Yogapith in Mayapura). He had a divine connection to the Lord through his siksa guru.

 

Remember also, that Arjuna shot arrows at his Guru (Dronacharya) at Kurukshetra.

 

When the Guru is not following true dharma then he can be rejected.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Siksa Parampara we are in? Then why did Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati take initation from Gaura Kisora das?

 

And if you say Bhaktivinoda Thakura was never initiated [Diksya], then you can make an argument that we cannot have true spiritual liniege. Then tell me something, who was it that FOUND The Yogapitha?

 

I recall another forum that goes over this same argument. They say Prabhuada never gave or talked about Gopi-bhava, well excuse me..but you don't teach this to new disicples.

 

Manjari-svarupa [bhaktivinoda]. Born devotee. Doesn't require initation. Was Sukadeva Goswami initaited?

[Guest guest]

A devotee must take diksa from a pure saint. This is in the scriptures. Unfortunately, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur had to leave his diksa guru and take complete shelter of his siksa guru, Srila Jagannatha das Babaji, after he was rejected by Bipin Bihari Goswami. But a devotee must always take initiation for to avoid accepting diksa from a Guru is an offence to the Holy Name.

 

Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur took initiation from Srila Gaura-kishore das Bababji. Everyone must take diksa from a Guru if we want to make some progress on the path towards Goloka.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

And in this case it seems the fault was from the Gurus side, not from the disicple. So what fault in there in him, besides Jagannatha dasa Babaji could have given Diksya, what more worthy disicple than Bhaktivinoda?

[Guest guest]

Because intiation means receiving transcendental knowledge from one who has it is absolutely vital for transcendental realization.

 

How could you skip receiving transcendental knowledge and be successful in your path to Krishna consciousness? The idea is farcisical.

[Guest guest]

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksha in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

 

divyam jnanam yato dadyat kuryat papasya sankshayam

tasmat diksheti sa prokta desikais tattva-kovidaih

 

“Diksha is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksha.”

[Guest guest]

Yes diksa involves the transmission of "divya jnana" or divine knowledge from a Guru to a disciple so there is some siksa or instruction involved when someone receives diksa.

 

The Guru will say, "chant this Krishna mantra, remember Sri Krishna and his devotees, etc. etc.".

 

But diksa also means hearing with your ear the Divine Mantra spoken by Sri Guru. It isn't the same as reading a book written by a great Acharya, or some other such thing.

 

Diksa is a formal process. Indeed it is a formal process that is clearly described in Hari Bhakti Vilasa. The Guru speaks the mantra and the disciple hears what is spoken. You don't get diksa from reading books or words on a web page.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

By Letter many times when He couldn't be personally present.

 

Bhaktivinoda took Diksya, then took Sikya. [Regardless of the aparent rejection by His own Gurudeva]. This is one instance where the disicple was greater than Guru!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

http://www.krsnaconsciousness.org/Gauranga/whos-whos-in-gaura-lila.htm

 

 

199 Jagannatha Dasa Babaji Rasika Manjari

 

200 Bhaktivinoda Thakura Kamala Manjari

 

201 Gaurakishore Dasa Babaji Guna Manjari

 

202 Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Nayana Mani Manjari

 

[Guest guest]

Sorry

 

But where and who did Bakti Rakshak Sridhara Deva rejected some disciple totally?

 

And also that Bipini Bihari Goswami rejected Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is only said like that from some. Others say that some of his followers rejected Bhaktivinode Thakura.

 

bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga laha gauranganama

yei jana gauranga bhaje, sei amara prana

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/nmj_articles/parampara/parampara1_1.html

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/nmj_articles/parampara/parampara1_2.html

 

I read this it clears much of my doubts.

 

Bhaktivinda Diksya from Bipini Goswami is accepted. Even though He was rejected for some reason. So I didn't really understand this point. That how can Guru reject YET Diksya still remains. But it must do, since it is accepted universally. Anyway my doubts are cleared.