Modern Psychology Is Inescapably Demonic:looking within, rather than turning for help

[Guest guest]

Transpersonal pyschology and hynotherapy are growing branches that seeks to advance past what has previously been offered. Unfortunately it is mostly if not exclusively being practiced by Buddhist oriented therapists and other New Age impersonalists.

 

There is absolutely no reason that a Vaisnava cannot make use of this opening in the field. Trans-personal refers to going beyond the mask of false identity, false intentions and desires etc. That sounds to me to be a perfect fit for Krishna consciousness.

 

It just takes a trained person and the ability to present Krishna consciousness concepts through modern pyschological jargon.

 

The pyschological field is only limited by those who practice it. As it is now people are considered getting better if they manage to profgress from ignorance to passion. "Get off the couch and go make something of yourself and enjoy your senses", this is the extent of most of their advice.

 

The same pathology's that a patient presents with to a KC pyschologist would reveal the self in a way compatible to his patients ability to receive that knowledge.

 

The practice itself is neutral.

[stonehearted]

shiva: "Why assume that I don't object to "their critique of more "liberal" preachers." I was simply saying that we shouldn't carelessly throw around accusations of aparadha or threaten people with God's wrath. That shuts down discussions and creates an enmity that doesn't need to be there."

 

I simply haven't seen you object to such critique, that's why. I don't carelessly throw around accusaions of aparadha. Please read my stuff more carefully; I know you're sharp enough to understand. All I do is to point out that we should always be wary of where the line is. The assumption that "my" perspective is right, and "yours" is wrong is a good indicator that we're getting close to admitting a pucity of respect. Rhetoric was my academic specialty, and I can't help noticing the tone of pieces like, for example, Danavir Maharaja's hit piece against Tripurari Maharaja's Bhagavad-gita, including the fakey show of respect. It was clear that 1) his intention was to slam Tripurari Maharaja just because he's working outside ISKCON GBC control, and 2) he had never read the book he was "critiquing." And I took his essay apart, paragraph by paragraph, but I never even implied that there was anything deficient in him or his approach to serving Srila Prabhupada. That's quite the opposite of what he wrote.

 

And Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja's condemnation of psychology as inherently demoniac shows the same absolutist, black-and-white vilification of anything that puts devotees beyond the control of the institution's bureaucracy. Although I've never met him, I'm sure that I would like him and respect him, in spite of some superficial disagreement over details. Krishna-kirti and I correspond fairly regularly, and, although we clearly disagree on so many "social" issues, we respect each other quite deeply.

[stonehearted]

Well said. Here's another perspective, quite different from what we see from HH Bhakti Vikas Maharaja:

 

SB 1.5.22:

Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry.

PURPORT

Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Visnu. The sruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Visnu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of visnu-maya do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Visnu. Visnu-maya means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by visnu-maya utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Sri Narada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Valmiki was a great poet, and similarly Vyasadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. Philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science, and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, philosophical speculations should be utilized to establish the Supreme Truth as sentient and all-powerful. Similarly, all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same is affirmed. All "knowledge" not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glories of the Lord, and that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factually hari-kirtana, or glorification of the Lord.

[Guest guest]

I just realized I haven't read that purport in years. Shame on me. There is this constant effort on the part of many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples to constrict this realization of Krsna into a uniformed sterotyped nicely wrapped little package which from reading that purport we can see is just diametrically opposed to what Prabhupada was teaching. And to make it worse they do this in the name of "Not changing anything."

 

That said there is a danger of haphazard mixing and watering down Iskcon. I have seen and spoken out against this psychobabble/seminar stuff entering in to ashrama life. Prabhupada's program is complete as it is and temples should not deviate. Expand unlimitedly but without deviation.

 

Not everything needs to be done in the temple. Have seminars. Have a private practice. But it should be part of a private endeavor I feel for healing and preaching(one and the same really)without being a disturbance to normal temple functions.

 

I wonder if it is not the mixing of the two that caused the swami to misspeak as he did.

[Guest guest]

that should have read histemples.

[Guest guest]

"Get off the couch and go make something of yourself and enjoy your senses" LOL

 

My parents forced me to see a psychologist when I had a nervous breakdown. The guy gave me a copy of that book "If you meet the Buddha on the Path Kill Him" or whatever the books was called. The book was a piece of trash and this psychologists idea of enlightenment was basically impersonalistic or even nihilistic. That guy made me more depressed than ever.

[Guest guest]

You go to a psychologist because you are depressed and suicidal and the guy says "But there is so much to live for" and then he hands you a book on the nihilistic view of life and tells you to become a Buddhist and die forever because afterall it's all samsara anyway and besides which you don't even really exist.

 

And these characters get big bucks for this "therapy".

 

OMG This world is an asylum and we're the inmates!!!!!

[Guest guest]

I went to see a pyschologist because I was so spaced out on drugs I was totally lost. He suggested I look into going to Israel and living on one of their relgious communes. I forgot what they are called. I'm not even Jewish and I was living on the street at the time. LOLOLOL

[krsna]

SB 1.5.22:

Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry.

PURPORT

Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Visnu. The sruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Visnu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of visnu-maya do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Visnu. Visnu-maya means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by visnu-maya utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Sri Narada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Valmiki was a great poet, and similarly Vyasadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. Philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science, and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, philosophical speculations should be utilized to establish the Supreme Truth as sentient and all-powerful. Similarly, all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same is affirmed. All "knowledge" not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glories of the Lord, and that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factually hari-kirtana, or glorification of the Lord.

[stonehearted]

Thanks for reposting that verse and Srila Prabhupada's purport, which I posted a year and a half ago. It is a gem (but aren't they all?).

[theist]

 

I went to see a pyschologist because I was so spaced out on drugs I was totally lost. He suggested I look into going to Israel and living on one of their relgious communes. I forgot what they are called. I'm not even Jewish and I was living on the street at the time. LOLOLOL

 

OMG this is too weird. I had the EXACT same experience. This pyschologist recommended that I go to Isreal and live on a Kibutz, which is what they call their religious communes.

 

You don't happen to live in Honolulu do you? It sounds like the same guy although I met him in the mid 70's. I went in to a free clinic in Waikiki to try to get some help because I was stoned on buds 24/7.