tookie - mahak

[Guest guest]

Haribol, readers. The former gang leader I wrote about in another topic is going before the board today. He is not attached to the outcome, because he seriously regrets his crimes. However, we must make determination about the capital punishment issue.

 

The criminal justice system is supposed to be designed as reform, not punishment. While punishment is certainly required in cases where reform is not happening, each case must bve weighed case-by-case. I, myself, approve of capital punishment where the crimes are so abhorrant that they cannot even be discussed (involving children, etc.) and in cases where the criminal shows absolutely no possibility of reform.

 

Tookie is a different story. He has been on death row for twenty years. He has not run the gangs from inside the prisons like many gang leaders have, he has not engaged in criminal activity during his incarceration. He has actually been reformed by the grace of God, whom He gives full credit. He has spent his time trying to reform the inner city youth to try to get them to avoid the problems that led to his downfall. His writings and his actions have even earned him a recommendation of clemency by a certain California judicial authority, the same that convicted him, a close relative of the prosecution. There are many who also recommend clemency.

 

By clemency, there is no recommendation that he walk free. The clemency recommended is that he is not put to death by the state in favor of life without parole. This would enable him to continue to TEACH by his example, to show the result of criminal gang activity.

 

To kill this person is not in the pursuit of justice, it is only pursuit of revenge, what is called in Bhagavad Gita as an action of anger. While the victims' families may not get their pound of flesh, their eye for an eye, society has gained one who knows the real story and is willing to shine a light on his own faulty behavior in order for others to see the avid comparison between abhorrant and righteous behavior.

 

Anyway, like I said, tookie is firm in his convictions (both of them, by the state and by God Himself who healed his soul). He has surrendered to the will of the Supreme Lord. I want him to live, and I ask that my friends here look at him as he is now, knowing that God can and does clean up evil hearts.

 

If one would like to read tookie's pleas to youth, prisoners who continue gang activities (the greatest terrorism facing the USA), and other writings, say the word and Ill give hotlinks here.

 

I humbly bow to Sri Lord Nityananda Prabhu, who has pleaded to Lord Chaitanya to spare Jagai and Madai. Jagai and Madai reformed themselves by the grace of Lord Supersoul, who has manifested Himself as Lord Nityananda. Not all death row folks can be seen with the same vision. Some deserve to die, some deserve to be heard to show the mercy of God alongside his Justice.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

On death row, an author and Nobel nominee

 

Paul Van Slambrouck Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

 

RICHMOND, CALIF. - The mattress pads in the death-row cells of San Quentin State Prison are unusually thin.

But former gang godfather and convicted murderer Stanley "Tookie" Williams has made that a virtue. He rolls his up tight, binds it together with shoelaces, and sets it on end. From that makeshift stool, using his metal bed frame as a desk, Mr. Williams writes books for children, warning them of the life he led and now rues.

 

"I have to ad lib," says Williams in a phone interview from his cell. "You do a lot of that in here."

 

Indeed, Williams's life has been full of ingenuity and surprises. But perhaps none so great as the recent announcement that he has been nominated for next year's Nobel Peace Prize by a member of the Swiss ..

 

Williams is co-founder of the Crips, a gang rooted in

 

 

 

 

1971 South Central Los Angeles but now with copycats scattered around the globe.

 

But it's what Williams has done from a 4- by 9-foot cell - his home for the past 19 years - that has brought him a Nobel nomination. He has created a cottage industry of programs to help at-risk youths in the United States and abroad to avoid gang life. He's written nine books and created several anticrime programs run by the nonprofit Neighborhood House for North Richmond, not far from San Quentin.

 

While Williams's works have received wide recognition, including support from corporations like Kraft Foods and funding from the US Department of Justice, honoring him as a Nobel nominee is controversial and sure to play into the national debate over the death penalty.

 

For opponents of capital punishment, Williams's accomplishments are testimony to the power and usefulness of a life turned around.

 

For supporters of the death penalty, the nomination is the ultimate affront to victims everywhere. Williams was convicted of four murders, which he denies committing.

 

 

 

Reverse role model

 

For Tandrea Nix, a sixth-grader in tan pants and a black nylon jacket, Williams is a kind of reverse role model.

 

Tandrea is one of more than 50 children who spend their after-school hours in a converted duplex apartment building in North Richmond, a community with an ever present whiff of oil in the air, thanks to nearby refineries, and a per capita annual income of $4,500. The children are participating in a project begun by Williams and administered by Neighborhood House that provides mentoring and resources, like Internet access, to spread an antigang message.

 

In a dim upstairs room with windows covered by metal mesh, Tandrea is reading aloud from one of Williams's books to a group of children bused here from their homes after school. Tandrea explains Williams's message to a visitor simply: "It teaches us not to grow up like him."

 

Growing up for Williams meant an early introduction into the tough street life of South Central Los Angeles. He and his mother moved there by bus from Louisiana in the early 1960s. His first exploration of his new neighborhood led to a fight with the local bully, an experience Williams says convinced him that being bigger, tougher, and stronger than the next guy were the keys to survival.

 

At 17, Williams and a friend founded the Crips gang, which begat heightened street violence and, ultimately, a couple of robberies and four murders that landed Williams on death row. He is appealing those convictions by requesting new evidentiary hearings.

 

 

 

Slow conversion

 

Williams's transition from gang leader to gang opponent was not sudden. Gang affiliations and animosities follow their members into prison, and San Quentin authorities were immediately suspicious of Williams.

 

Convinced he was behind a budding gang power struggle, prison officials sent Williams to "the hole," a place where even minimal prison liberties are denied, where he stayed for seven years.

 

It was there, says Williams, that the conversion began.

 

"It didn't happen overnight," he says. "It wasn't an epiphany. It was gradual, and that's what made it more effective - not like one of those crash diets where it doesn't last," he chuckles.

 

"He's proof that someone can change the direction of his life and give a good example to other young people," says Mario Fehr, who, along with five fellow members of the Swiss ., put forth Williams's Nobel nomination.

 

 

Williams is soft-spoken and, while not formally educated, clear and articulate. He credits God for making his life productive, and voracious reading for his impressive vocabulary. His favorite books: the Bible, the dictionary, and a thesaurus.

 

Williams's work and conversion have been given a strong helping hand by Barbara Becnel, executive director of the Neighborhood House. They met when she sought him out as a source for a book she is writing on the history of L.A. gangs. She became a conduit for his programs outside prison, including the books, which he dictates to her over the phone. She edits them and does the leg work to see them into print.

 

Ms. Becnel's initial quest for a publisher in the early 1990s failed. Only one was interested, but wanted a blood-and-guts inside account of gang life, which Williams rejected. She then took the idea to a National Booksellers Convention in Chicago, where she literally walked from booth to booth. She found a taker, and the series of books was published in 1996.

 

Another book, "Life in Prison," was published in 1998, and presents a harrowing account of prison existence that has been applauded by juvenile-justice officials, as well as educators and young people.

 

Becnel says Williams gets no proceeds from the books. Rather, earnings are funneled into his antigang activities. Williams founded the Internet Project for Street Peace, a Web site that allows at-risk youths to talk to each other in chat rooms. Right now, the network involves American teens talking to Somali immigrants in Switzerland. Eventually, the program will connect with black youths in South Africa, too.

 

Gang life in the style of South Central L.A. has clearly gone global. Becnel recalls her astonishment on a trip to South Africa, when she visited Pollsmoor Prison, where Nelson Mandela was incarcerated, and noticed prisoners making hand symbols identifying themselves as followers of the Crips.

 

 

 

Little sympathy

 

Because of his murder convictions, as well as the thousands of lives damaged by gangs, Williams gets no sympathy from victims-rights groups and death-penalty proponents.

 

"We work very hard not to allow murderers to become celebrities. We find it insulting to the victims, because it just casts the victims aside," says Jan Miller, president of Citizens Against Homicide. Whatever good work Williams is doing today, says Miller, cannot negate his earlier crimes, nor should it affect his punishment.

 

Mr. Fehr, the Swiss Parliamentarian, makes clear that the Nobel nomination is intended to honor Williams, as well as call attention to the injustice of the death penalty. "This will help push the death-penalty debate to a higher level," says Fehr from Zurich.

 

Of course, winning the Nobel Prize remains a long shot for Williams, who is just one of more than 100 nominations. But in terms of the debate over the death penalty, simply being a nominee will heighten the controversy that is sure to follow if Williams's legal appeals are exhausted and his execution scheduled.

 

Aside from the morality argument against the death penalty, Williams embodies a different, more pragmatic contention. If his life now accomplishes a social good, supporters argue, why end it?

 

 

© Copyright 2000. The Christian Science Publishing Society

 

[Kulapavana]

the vedic view of capital punishment is pretty straightforward and for the most part I agree with it. should there be exceptions? perhaps. the system of clemency was applied by the vedic kings.

[Guest guest]

in my opinion. Liberal judges let child molestors and all various sorts of criminal get off easily and they go on molesting and doing all sorts of stuff without remorse. Then when someone genuinly feels remorse for their crimes like Tookie people are so fed up with the justice system and its leniency that guys like him pay the price.

[Guest guest]

Judges have made a sham of US Criminal justice system, but it is not the liberal alone who is responsible. The system is also responsible, a system that allows affluence to influence, while those with inadequate legal representation suffer great injustice.

 

But here we have enough evidence to not desire that this person suffer because of the inadequacy of the legal system. Just as reprehensible as the do-gooder liberal is the close minded conservative who refuses to look at the facts of any issue. I do not argue with your opinion of so-called liberals, but labels do not work in the heart, where no labels exist. And the "LIBERAL" tag does not fit those who to a platform of issues without discerning. A true liberal would never advocate saving whales while allowing abortion factories to spread worldwide, refusing to question the elitists who want the Zerto Population Growth philosophy ingrainbed into society. A true liberal would hit the streets at any attempt at culling of the human species.

 

Unfortunately, the word liberal is just as useless a label as conservative is. Hillary Clinton is called liberal, and George W. Bush is called conservative, but hillary wants to cull the human race, and Bush has absolutely no fiscal responsibility. Therefore, even the use of the words liberal and conservative makes virtually any writing just another mind-control propaganda piece.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa.

 

PS Vedic wise, capital punishment would serve tookie well, save him from future punishments much greater than taking injection, but for our society, perhaps sparing him would help the world. IMHO

[Guest guest]

That's what I always like about you, you are an objective liberal. I wish more liberals were like you I would even vote liberal if so. You got my vote if you ever ran for President.

[krsna]

Would he not have to suffer in his next life as a karmic reaction for killing someone in this , especially if not punished in this life?

 

But you say that he has 'surrendered to Krsna?' How is that ? Please explain, my dear Prabhu.

[Guest guest]

He is not attached to the outcome, because he seriously regrets his crimes.

 

 

From what I understand he refuses to even admit he murdered four people. Maybe he regrets them on the inside.

[Guest guest]

He regrets his crimes, no one said anything about how he was charged or the circumstances. He never denies he pulled trigger, he admits shooting many, but he denies pulling trigger on who he is charged with murdering.

 

As far as Karma goes, when Lord Chaitanya was about to kill jagai and madai for their crimes, Nityananda forbade Him. But he did kill their sinful behavior, and this is what happens when one surrenders to God.

 

What level is tookie on? I wont say he is pure devotee, but then again, I dont know that either, His reaction to his deeds is what he faces, beyond the comment of the sideliners.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

 

Teach me to feel another's woe,

 

To hide the fault I see;

 

That mercy I to others show,

 

That mercy show to me.

 

by Alexander Pope (1688-1744)

 

ATTRIBUTION: The Universal Prayer. Stanza 10.

 

[Guest guest]

 

What level is tookie on? I wont say he is pure devotee, but then again, I dont know that either, His reaction to his deeds is what he faces, beyond the comment of the sideliners.

 

 

 

LOL You must be kidding. I'll say it, Tookie Williams is not a pure devotee. LOLOLOL

 

Boy I sure don't feel like I have gone out on much of a limb.

[Guest guest]

Gone way out on a limb. Perhaps you shoulod read the CRITICISM topic. A pure devotee is only known by another pure devotee, or recognized by one who has developed spontaneous attraction to the Supreme Lord in a clearing stage. It is quite presumptuous for anyone to comment on the devotional status of another. In fact, it is suicidal.

 

In shastra, we are warned about using our material senses and the materially affected mind when evaluating devotion to the Supreme Lord. In fact, being incarcerated is specifically mentioned as a trait one should IGNORE when making such evaluation, along with physical unattractiveness, infirmity, or poverty status.

 

Krsna das, our resident poster of transcendental nectar, has posted a pertinent topic that should be understood, concerning the blades of a fan that may still be appearing to spin after the reaction to materialistic sinful activity has ceased, I suggest you read.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

This preachment from someone who feels free to call politicans with whom he disagrees murders drunkards liars and other such names.

 

Get off your pulpit.

 

Tookie a pure devotee of Krsna. Sheesh

 

Whatcha ya smokin' boy

[Guest guest]

you lie, too, bro, where have I called tookie a pure devotee. Nowhere, learn to read, bro.

 

I call drunks drunks, I call murderers murderers, I call tookie a murderer, too, but not for the murders he was charged with. He took out murdering rivals in his day. I call St. Paul a murderer, I call the sage Valmiki a murderer. Im both a victim and perp of murder.

 

I dont lie, like the politicians must.

 

mahak