ISKCON & Gaudiya Math

[Guest guest]

Haribol.

 

I am an aspiring disciple of an ISKCON Guru.

 

Can i marry a devotee from Gaudiya Math? Dsiciple of Narayan Maharaj, can anyone help me regarding this?

[stonehearted]

a lot on where you live, your relationship with the temple and its leadership, and your prospective spouse's relationship's with them. A disciple of Narayan Maharaja poses a greater problem than disciples of many other extra-ISKCON gurus. Feel around discreetly (or have someone else do it for you). Why not ask your prospective guru about this?

[Guest guest]

I find your question really sad. You can marry whomever you like. Being a devotee does not mean that you give up all decisions that pertain to your life.

 

I practise Vaisnavism and I am married to a non Vaisnava, but we respect each other.

 

The sectarianism that exists within the western branches of Gaudiya Vaisnvaism may affect your realationship with your partner, but if both of you are mature enough to see through the sectarian silliness then there should be few, if any, difficulties.

 

Look to the third verse of Siskhasaska, and follow it's maxims. You will be fine.

 

As to asking your prospective Guru whom you should marry? Mmmm....I find this bizzare. I have even seen people ask my Gurudeva which job they should have. What next? What type of house, car, computer I should buy? Just imagine having Guru approved iPods. I need to update my computer, so I'm going to ask my Gurudeva which platform I should use, Mac or PC. You see, being a disiciple I have to ask my Gurudeva permission before I do anything!

 

Maybe, just maybe, I need to understand guru tattva in a more mature way.

 

I don't know how long you have been around the Gaudiya scene. Be careful of accepting advice from people deeply involved with institutions, as such people tend to advance their institutions agenda while ignoring the individual's needs.

 

If you really are considering marriage look outside Gaudiya vaisnavaism for good practise, as the divorce rate in Western Vaisnavaism is very high, so something's wrong.

 

I know dozens of devotees who have been married two or more times, and have kids by many diferrent partners. This is very unheathly for our society, and our children.

 

I know many people will find what I say offensive, but look around you and look at the sociological history of the western branch of Gaudiya Vaisnavism, it not very pretty: failed marriages, loveless marriages; emotionally, physically abused children. Check out Prithu's wife account of married life. Watch Burnt Laddhu.

 

Many people seem to fear discussing such important sociological issues, as dissent within the herd is not encouraged. Just surrender to group think!

 

Just remember one thing no institution, Gaudiya Math or Iskcon, can give you bhakti...

 

Good luck.....

[Guest guest]

Srila BV Narayana is not an ex-Iskcon Guru! He has never been a member of the said organisation.

 

[Kulapavana]

"I am an aspiring disciple of an ISKCON Guru.

 

Can i marry a devotee from Gaudiya Math? Dsiciple of Narayan Maharaj, can anyone help me regarding this? "

--------------------

 

tell your guru openly about your "problem". his reaction should help you decide whether you are making a good decission with respect to chosing both your wife, AND your guru. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

"Srila BV Narayana is not an ex-Iskcon Guru! He has never been a member of the said organisation."

 

>>>>>>>>The prefix that was used was "extra" (not "ex"), meaning "beyond", as in the word "extraordinary" (beyond the ordinary).

[gourshyam]

Hare Krishna Prabhus,

 

Dandvats. Sorry for the weird header. Why are we, the Gaudiya Vaishnavas of Saraswat Parampara becoming fanatical about institutions ?

I don't understand why there is so much concern about Gaudiya Math / ISKCON identity . I am a Gaudiya Math devotee and also have a great regard for ISKCON.

 

Why does a Guru have to tell you whom to marry ? Marriage is a personal matter and related to material life. Indeed, we should not forget that Gaudiya vaishnav siddhanta is for your transcendental life, not for mundane material matters like marriage.

 

Unfortunately sometimes the institution tries to control the life of the devotees, "forcing" them to do service. Such service fails to rise to the standard of pure devotional service. No wonder we see so many fall downs and other problems.

 

Asking forgiveness for any offenses. I tend to speak fearlessly.

[gourshyam]

Srila B V Narayana Maharaj is one of the seniormost Gaudiya Vaishnavas on the planet. I know there are a lot of misleading statements made both ways, by devotees either from ISKCON or GM.

 

We should learn to see our own shortcomings, instead of "prying on the frailties of others". I have found the books of Shrila Narayan Maharaj very enlightening,as compared with books published by recent ISKCON writers other than Shrila A C Bhakti Vedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

Yes, Srila Narayan Maharaj is not an ex-ISKCON Guru. A Guru is not a part of some organization or institution. Anybody who is following the teachings of His Guru parampara can be a a Guru.

 

About marrying someone who is disciple of another "Guru" : first of all, you both must be at least kanishtha adhikari. Then you will not see such differences between "Gurus" and realize that the same Guru tattva manifests everywhere.

 

However, if you find a conflict at the spiritual level, it may be better to follow one Guru than two. Conflicts at a spiritual level are much more difficult to solve than those at mundane levels.

 

Hare Krishna.

(neither ISKCON, nor Narayan Maharaj follower, I am a Gaudiya Math disciple of Shrimad Hrishikesh Goswami Maharaj, disciple of Shrila BSST Prabhupada).

[madanbhakta]

I was also wondering about this, because at the moment I am studying the writings of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, and the more that divulge with Srila Govinda Maharaj's devotees, the more that I feel that Srila Govinda Maharaj is my own guru... but who knows that until I am totally ready...

 

Anyways, it is likely that the people who I will meet will be from ISKCON. And being attracted (romantically, not sexually) to those of the same-sex, it will be a great demand of tolerance on many peoples' sides. I do expect myself to follow no illicit sex, but at the same time, I have attachments to companionship.

 

But yes, marriage is considered a secular institution outside of Gaudiya philosophy. Maybe one day I will meet my Krishna conscious man, or maybe I will be led a life as a single person. Who knows? ^___^ But love Krishna within whoever you wish!

[Yofu]

I asked my guru these questions:

 

Guruji which should I buy a PC or mac?

 

Guruji Should I shop at Wal-mart?

 

Guruji should I drive an american car or a japanese car?

 

Guruji which hairsyle shoiuld I wear?

 

Guruji should I get a job to support my wife and kids?

 

Guruji should I go to college?

 

Guruji should I breathe?

 

Guruji should drink water?

 

Guruji what other questions should I ask?

 

Guruji should I be loyal to your organisation?

 

Guruji is Santa Claus real?

 

Guruji should I vote democrat or republican?

 

Sigh.....

[Yofu]

An ex-guru? What's an ex-guru? Oh wait! I understand now. Satsvarupa dasa is now one of those. Oops...he's a retired "guru". Sorry my mistake!

[mahanila]

^how do you expect to develop love for God when you speak in such a way?

 

"One should think oneself to be more humble than the blade of grass, more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the Holy Name of the Lord constantly." - Lord Caitanya

[stonehearted]

 

Srila BV Narayana is not an ex-Iskcon Guru! He has never been a member of the said organisation.

 

As noted, I referred to him as among "extra-ISKCON" gurus, which means outside ISKCON, not formerly of ISKCON. I have met him on many occasions beginning in 1982, and I'm well aware that he has never been a member of ISKCON, although he has been known to claim that he is ISKCON.

[sambya]

 

Haribol.

 

I am an aspiring disciple of an ISKCON Guru.

 

Can i marry a devotee from Gaudiya Math? Dsiciple of Narayan Maharaj, can anyone help me regarding this?

 

MY GOD !!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU EVEN REMOTELY SPIRITUAL ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???

[Deathless]

 

Haribol.

 

I am an aspiring disciple of an ISKCON Guru.

 

Can i marry a devotee from Gaudiya Math? Dsiciple of Narayan Maharaj, can anyone help me regarding this?

That would have to be one of the worst reasons to end a relationship in the history of forever.

 

Man: "Are you Hindu?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Are you a Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "ME TOO! Are you a Gaudiya Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Wow I can't believe we have so much in common religiously.......................................

 

 

Wait... are you a member of ISKCON or Gaudiya Math?"

 

Woman: "Gaudiya Math."

 

Man: "Oh... well, even though we believe nearly the exact same thing, you're still not a part of the same sectarian group as I am. I'm going to have to end this immediately, you heretic scum of the earth."

 

 

 

Really, though, if you honestly think any relationship (let alone a marriage) should be based on such sectarian ideology, you probably shouldn't even be considering marriage at all at the moment.

[thehat]

 

That would have to be one of the worst reasons to end a relationship in the history of forever.

 

Man: "Are you Hindu?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Are you a Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "ME TOO! Are you a Gaudiya Vaishnava?"

 

Woman: "Yes!"

 

Man: "Me too! Wow I can't believe we have so much in common religiously.......................................

 

 

Wait... are you a member of ISKCON or Gaudiya Math?"

 

Woman: "Gaudiya Math."

 

Man: "Oh... well, even though we believe nearly the exact same thing, you're still not a part of the same sectarian group as I am. I'm going to have to end this immediately, you heretic scum of the earth."

 

 

 

Really, though, if you honestly think any relationship (let alone a marriage) should be based on such sectarian ideology, you probably shouldn't even be considering marriage at all at the moment.

Hahaha what a witty comment, but at the same time very relevant and true.

But his concern is quite genuine I think. At ISKCON, as far as ritual/practise or marriage is concerned, I've noticed that everything must be in accordance with ISKCON ideals. So if you want to get married you should marry a devotee, but a devotee within ISKCON? I may be wrong though.

And you can't marry an intiated devotee if you yourself aren't initiated, you'd have to marry a devotee who hasn't been initiated.

I'm sure many people have heard that they say at ISKCON you shouldn't really look at things outside of the ISKCON parameter, this extends to the books you read. They can't read anything besides Prabhupada's literature or their own guru.

 

They keep their devotees well proctected from the external world.

[bija]

Yes very witty.

 

 

Really, though, if you honestly think any relationship (let alone a marriage) should be based on such sectarian ideology, you probably shouldn't even be considering marriage at all at the moment.

This is a great statement by the way. With so many external walls they would have a long way to go toward union. But ofcourse intimacy may put an end to the unnecessary, bringing them closer.

[Deathless]

 

Hahaha what a witty comment, but at the same time very relevant and true.

Haha, thanks.

 

But his concern is quite genuine I think. At ISKCON, as far as ritual/practise or marriage is concerned, I've noticed that everything must be in accordance with ISKCON ideals. So if you want to get married you should marry a devotee, but a devotee within ISKCON? I may be wrong though.

And you can't marry an intiated devotee if you yourself aren't initiated, you'd have to marry a devotee who hasn't been initiated.

Do you have to be initiated in ISKCON specifically or initiated in any lineage?

 

I'm sure many people have heard that they say at ISKCON you shouldn't really look at things outside of the ISKCON parameter, this extends to the books you read. They can't read anything besides Prabhupada's literature or their own guru.

 

They keep their devotees well proctected from the external world.

So many rules! I never knew how many rules there were for ISKCON members.

 

I'm guessing that marriage between a non-Gaudiya and an ISKCONi would be totally out of the question?

[Deathless]

 

This is a great statement by the way. With so many external walls they would have a long way to go toward union. But of course intimacy may put an end to the unnecessary, bringing them closer.

I hope it does if they do decide to get married. It's hard to imagine someone having a strong relationship when their main concern is sectarian quibbles and minute detail, though.

[dev]

If she/he follows 4 regulative principles and chant 16 rounds as prescribed in ISKCON then go ahead with this relation. Of course check other things like horoscope matching etc.

To marry a non vaisnav is definitely bad as it will not allow you to follow 4 regs and then gradually no chanting and gradually all bhakti will be gone. Any thing we do should be for pleasure of guru and Krishna. So if marriage does not help me in getting more KC then what is the use of that kind of marriage.

YS, dev

[Deathless]

 

4 reg , 16 rounds and horscope matching is main thing

Whatever happened to love being the main thing in a marriage?

[dev]

if you water the tree all parts will will get nourishment. So call love ( lust) for each other has no use in spiritual life.

[bija]

 

So if marriage does not help me in getting more KC then what is the use of that kind of marriage.

 

if you water the tree all parts will will get nourishment. So call love ( lust) for each other has no use in spiritual life.

by dev

I feel so too. Relationships need to be based in deeper God consciousness to harmonize and blossom. So in that sense both parties being of the same spiritual group would be a good start.

 

Even if they both align to one group, their individualities will remain after formal marriage...and the deepening will still need to be worked at.

 

Throughout the christian community back in the 60's and 70's (in my parents time) it was necessary for a protestant to convert to marry a catholic. I believe these things are not the main issue of spiritual substance. What to say of different Gaudiya groups being unable to harmonize. This Gaudiya Math/Iskcon thing surely should not come before love (I am not talking about lust here). And if it does, in my opinion, there must be some incorrect spiritual teaching in one of the groups involved.

 

Ofcourse though, it depends on the spiritual maturity of the couple. And maybe that is why some leaders try and protect their flock (from the slow spiritual journey plagued by doubts).

[bija]

 

Whatever happened to love being the main thing in a marriage?

 

..."What is love, but whatever my heart needs around? (song lyric)"...

 

Material or spiritual lust? It depends on what we desire. Desire is always there one way or another.

[thehat]

 

Haha, thanks.

 

Do you have to be initiated in ISKCON specifically or initiated in any lineage?

 

So many rules! I never knew how many rules there were for ISKCON members.

 

I'm guessing that marriage between a non-Gaudiya and an ISKCONi would be totally out of the question?

1. Well I can't say for certain, but it seems like the case that you have to be initiated in ISKCON specifically. To this day I haven't met any married couples in iskcon who've been initiated by a guru outside of their own ISKCON school. So i've never see an ISKCON devotee married to a Gaudiya Math or Christian devotee etc.

It seems the case that the married couples first started off in brahmachari or brahmacharini ashrams, and then eventually after some training, married persons from their own school. I haven't seen them getting married to outsiders.

 

2. I don't know if marriage between the two schools is completely out of the question, I can't say that. It just seems like an unspoken 'thing' the iskcon devotees abide by. But I'm only under this impression because I've never met an isckon devotee who just so happened to be married to someone who wasn't part of iskcon. Maybe there are iskcon devotees married to devotees from gaudiya math. It's just I haven't seen it, and most of the devotees in iskcon seem like they'd want to be married within the same family. It certainly be more comfortable.

 

Of course the central focus or basis of any relationship for a Gaudiya Vaishnava would be Krishna of course, so it seems silly that there would be restrictions on marriage between people of the same Gaudiya vaishnav background. It's not like there's discussion of marriage between a devotee an atheist. But then as dev had said in his comment

"If she/he follows 4 regulative principles and chant 16 rounds as prescribed in ISKCON then go ahead with this relation."

This might be quite an important factor for the person..