Polygamy in Grihastha ashram

[SubashRao]

Dear Respected Devotees,

 

I am really confused with polygamy and its role in human society. First of all I need to make sure if Sanathana Dharma/Hinduisme allows polygamy. Do vedas really allow polygamy?

 

some weeks back some of my friends and I were discussing about this. some of them are girls. I remember reading some articles where Srila Prabhupada stated men are allowed to have more than one wife but under certain conditions.

 

So i told the girls about this. and they couldn't take it. as normal hindus they doubt if sanathana dharma/hinduisme allows polygamy.

 

They even argue saying that..if polygamy is allowed in vedas...why womens do not have the same rights, that is to have more than one husband?...why is there such discrimination?

 

and another thing they asked me...will you allow your wife to marry another man?...if you couldn't stand your wife having relationship with another women, how can you expect that your wife to accept you marrying another woman?

 

and another thing they try to emphesize... how can you share your love to your wife with another woman?...won't it mean that you are faking your love?

 

I couldn't answer this.

 

Need enlightment on this please. Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Initialy Srila Prabhupada made some staements about how every girl must be married and that is impossible unless there is polygamy. However as time progressed he saw that it was not practical in Kali yuga. Hence he wrote:

"10 February, 1973

73-02-10

Dear Karandhara,

Please accept my blessings. I have received your letter of 1/24/73 concerning polygamy and feel that this policy must be strictly prohibited within our society. If it is not it shall only cause chaos, as what was possible under the system of pure Vedic Culture is impossible at the present time."

 

Melbourne

10 February, 1973

73-02-10

 

"My Dear Satsvarupa,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated January 22nd, and 23rd and have noted the contents carefully. I am very much encouraged that you are taking this program of preaching to the college students seriously and this is very important program. Regarding your various questions. First let us understand that polygamy cannot be permitted in our society. Legally it is impossible and neither are there many of our devotees who are prepared to assume the responsibility for many wives. Therefore as I have suggested previously as they do in Christian religion they have so many convent where the women stay and they receive protection. The point is that the women must be protected and it is the duties of the leaders of our society to see that this is carried out."

 

Sydney

14 February, 1973

73-02-14

 

 

 

My Dear Rupanuga,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 31/1/73. After conferring with my various GBC representatives I have concluded that polygamy must be strictly prohibited in our society. Although it is a Vedic institution still there are so many legal implications. Neither are many of our men fixed up enough to tend for more than one wife. Polygamy will simply increase the sex life and our philosophy is to gradually decrease the sex life till eventually there is no sex life. The policy should be that all the women are given the utmost protection. Women are looking for husbands because they feel unprotected so it is up to the senior members to give all protection to the women."

Srila Prabhupada Said: on Polygamy in ISKCON

"This incident with one of our temple presidents is not good. He can't even maintain one wife. Just see how lusty he is. Now he'll dare to take another. Anyway, he cannot live in the temple. If he wants two wives he must live outside. He should maintain his family by working and giving fifty percent to the temple. He may not live off temple funds. Temple president is generally meant for sannyasi, but a grhastha may be if he is restrained. It is not good if he remains as president."

-- Letter of November 8, 1976

 

"Regarding the question of second marriage, it cannot be done. Neither the law will allow it, neither we can encourage it. If they want to marry more than one wife, they must live outside our temples in their own arrangements. We have no objection if he does it, but it must be done outside the temple. It cannot be done inside the temple jurisdiction. Outside he can work, earn money, and if he wants he can maintain 16,000 wives. But he must go outside the society. Within the society only one marriage can be allowed.

"I thought these boys and girls will be married and be happy. But I see they are not satisfied. In the Western countries they are trained up in a different way -- jumping from one to another. Another wife, another husband. This is the disease all over the world. Simply by agreement, then canceling, then another agreement.

"Everyone wants more than one wife, that is human nature. This means their mind is not being diverted by Krsna. Because they are not madana-mohana, they are madana-dahana, they are in the Cupid's fire ...

"They must go outside the society to do it. And, the sort of marriage where they are not satisfied cannot be allowed. Nor can woman with child, strictly she cannot marry again."

-- Letter of September 7, 1975

 

"Regarding your taking a second wife, you cannot do this. At least you cannot stay in our temple in Vrndavana. If you want to take a second wife, then you have to leave our Vrndavana temple. Whether you can maintain them and take some job and earn? Our temple cannot support you and your two wives. You will then want three, four, and more. Anyway, as an American it is illegal for you to do this. We are trying to minimize sex and you are trying to increase it. Please give up this idea."

-- Letter of July 13, 1975

Letter to Rupanuga dasa, November 8, 1976; letter to Bhagavan Goswami, September 7, 1975; letter to Narottamananda dasa, July 13, 1975.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SPN 4-21: Srila Prabhupada Said: on Polygamy in ISKCON

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

.... is still nothin'.

[stonehearted]

Here’s something about polygamy I thought you all might find interesting. This was excerpted from a tract called “The Marriage System of Bengal,” written by Kedarnath Datta (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura) around 1857.

 

“Polygamy is the bane of native [indian]society—a curse that enslaves many of the softer sex. The Kulina Brahmins are inseparable companions of polygamy. In their society it is as firmly advocated as is American slavery in the Southern States. The Kulina women are no better off than the African blacks. But an African black has many advocates around: he has a voice in the “Anti-Slavery League,” whilst a Kulina Brahmini has no zealous friend to tell of her sorrows and relieve them. The legislature ought to hear the cries of the people as far as their interest is concerned. Reform in everything is sought for and as the first movement we desire the removal of polygamy by an enactment.”

[stonehearted]

I wrote this as part of an exchange with a Godbrother:

Lord Ramachandra’s Example: “Only One Wife”

 

*** prabhu’s lengthy response to Prtha’s complaints about polygamy seems to miss one important source: a verse and purport in the Ninth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Chapter 10, verse 54 says, “Lord Ramacandra took a vow to accept only one wife and have no connection with any other women. He was a saintly king, and everything in His life was good, untinged by qualities like anger. He taught good behavior for everyone, especially for the householders, in terms of varnasrama-dharma. Thus He taught the general public by His personal activities.”

 

In his purport, Srila Prabhupada explains this further: “Eka-patni-vrata, accepting only one wife, was the glorious example set by Lord Ramacandra. One should not accept more than one wife. In those days, of course, people did marry more than one wife. Even Lord Ramacandra’s father accepted more wives than one. But Lord Ramacandra, as an ideal king, accepted only one wife, mother Sita. When Mother Sita was kidnapped by Ravana and the Raksasas, Lord Ramacandra, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, could have married hundreds and thousands of Sitas, but to teach us how to be faithful He was to His wife, He fought with Ravana and finally killed him. The Lord punished Ravana and rescued His wife to instruct men to have only one wife. Lord Ramacandra accepted only one wife and manifested sublime character, thus setting an example for householders. A householder should live according to the ideal of Lord Ramacandra, who showed how to be a perfect person.”

 

Srila Prabhupada makes abundantly clear in this purport his desire that we establish daivi-varnasrama-dharma by marrying only one wife and remaining faithful to her throughout our lives. Since *** invests much in dates, let’s note that this volume was published in 1977. ***’s research shows that, in the abstract, we should have little objection to the kind of polygamy practiced by men with qualifications similar to King Dasarath. We should also note, however, that even Dasarath’s household was not perfectly peaceful. If men less qualified than he try to care for more than one wife, we can expect just the sorts of problems we have experienced over the years.

 

In fact, our godbrothers’ attempts at “polygamy” were really meant for increasing their sense gratification, regardless of their attempts to rationalize their behavior. I know of no such arrangements in which the “wives” were all equally satisfied with the results over the long run. In the conversation *** cites as Srila Prabhupada’s “last and final instruction on the matter,” Srila Prabhupada says another wife would be allowed “if the woman allows husband.” He imposed the same restriction on acceptance of the sannyasa ashram by his married disciples. This shows the wife’s importance in the family and underscores Srila Prabhupada’s assertion that both husband and wife should be faithful.

 

In trying to introduce spiritual culture to the world, we need to be bold, as Srila Prabhupada showed by his own example. We must also be humble and honest enough to acknowledge the limits of our actual understanding of varanasrama’s cultural manifestations, as well as the limits of our understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s desires. Otherwise, we risk minimizing his significance and missing the richness of genuine spiritual culture.

 

Babhru das

 

[stonehearted]

And this was a reply to his response to the earlier piece:

 

Srila Prabhupada’s Desire: No Sense Gratification

 

I have no intention of becoming embroiled in a tit-for-tat argument with *** prabhu about the propriety of polygamy; however, I do want to respond to a few problems I found in his reply to my article, “Lord Ramachandra’s Example.”

 

First, it should be clear to anyone who reads my article carefully that it does not disparage polygamy, either as a principle or in its correct practice. It argues for careful consideration in argument. That’s all. In the article to which I responded, *** simply ignored any views other than his own. As I teach even my first-year college students, any successful argument must take into consideration other sides of an issue, including any questions or objections that may be raised. ***’s didn’t, and I simply wanted to point out that if we intend to include this practice in our understanding of establishing varnashrama-dharma, we should do so carefully. “We must also be humble enough to acknowledge the limits of our actual understanding,” is what I actually said. I stand fast by my advocacy of humility.

 

Further, anyone who reads my article can also see that nowhere in it do I attack ***’s character or his motives for repeating Srila Prabhupada’s words. I met *** when he lived in Los Angeles and Three Rivers, and never had any impression of him except that he is a serious, sincere devotee. And since an interlocutor’s character is an important element of classical rhetoric, maybe I should mention my own track record: I have been a faithful disciple since early 1970 and a faithful husband to my wife for 26 years. Ask anyone who knows me.

 

Since *** finds it appropriate, however, to question my motives, let me deal with that section of his recent article first. He asks, “Are you trying to create a generation of young prostitutes so you can enjoy them?” Not at all. I’m strictly monogamous, and at 51 I’m done with sex and headed in the other direction. I’m probably more upset than *** is that so many of our devotees’ daughters aren’t properly situated; many of them were my students. Moreover, as far as I know, no one has ever before suggested such a flaw in my character. I find it insulting to Srila Prabhupada, to my vaishnavi wife, and to my godbrothers’ daughters. More to the point, though, such character attack, although it’s certainly his prerogative to indulge in it, weakens ***’s argument.

 

Early in his article, *** misstates my comments. Regarding the June 28, 1977 conversation, *** says I’m “reading things that just aren’t there and putting words in SP’s mouth that he didn’t say.” This is simply not true. Even in Ameyatama’s quotation in this most recent article, right where he tries to prove I’m making things up, Srila Prabhupada says, “If the woman allows husband, ‘He likes.’ . . .” I didn’t say this; Srila Prabhupada did. His main point here is, as *** points out, that a chaste wife who is properly protected ought not to object. But Srila Prabhupada does say that a second wife would be permitted “If the woman allows.” *** says, “I only read that SP says the wife must not mind very much if her husband takes more than one wife.” Then read it again, more carefully this time, prabhu, because you seem to have missed a sentence. “If woman allows.” One more time—those are not my words, but Srila Prabhupada’s own. *** should read his own article more carefully, or at least be careful enough to edit out what he doesn’t want us to see.

 

He says I claim the Ninth Canto purport says “that Srila Prabhupada does NOT want us to take more than one wife.” That is just not what I write there. What I do say is that it expresses his desire that his male disciples accept only one wife and remain faithful to her.

 

He claims that I see this verse “as some sort of absolute dictum that is so strong and powerful that it totally overpowers and over shadows [sic]” all instructions that favor polygamy. But that’s not what I say, either. Nowhere do I even imply that it nullifies any other instruction. One could make a case that instructions in Srila Prabhupada’s books should carry more weight than comments made in his room, on a walk, or even in a letter. I read a letter to a godbrother named Sadhanananda in which Srila Prabhupada wrote that devotees say, “Srila Prabhupada has said this, or said that.” This is another form of cheating, he said. “If it is not in my books,” he wrote, “I did not say it.” I won’t make such a case. I will, however, present some of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions in the matter, from his books and other sources, to show that this is not an isolated statement that runs counter to his real desire.

 

In the purport to SB 4.26.4, Srila Prabhupada writes, “One should be satisfied with his married wife, for even a slight deviation will create havoc.” Then he continues, “A Krishna conscious grihastha should always remember this. He should always be satisfied with one wife and be peaceful simply by chanting the Hare Krishna mantra.” In a 1972 Bhagavatam lecture in Los Angeles, he said, “So to become Krishna conscious means immediately--that is the test--immediately he will become free from lust and greediness. If he's not free from lust and greediness, he is making a show; he's not Krishna conscious. This is the test. If one is actually advanced in Krishna consciousness, then these two symptoms will be visible in his character: no more lusty, no more greediness. He should be satisfied with one wife or one husband. Why hankering after others? That is lusty. That means it is not on the stage of Krishna consciousness; it is in the material platform.” In a 1974 Bhagavatam class, he said, “a person should be so nicely trained up that the one wife with religious, by performing religious ceremony, is given to him, he should be satisfied with her, not to see other women, adulteration. This is Kali-yuga.” In 1975 he told us, “If anyone can maintain a family--family means one wife and one or two children--then he is to be considered very expert, successful,” and in 1976 he said, “Tapasya begins with brahmacarya, life of celibacy, or accepting one wife only. That's all.” Years before, in 1971 he said, “We recommend our students not to have illicit sex. We don't stop sex, but regulate. . . . What is the difficulty? No illicit sex means don't be cats and dogs. Be married man and have one wife, one husband, and be satisfied.”

 

In 1974, he wrote Sukadeva prabhu, “No, devotees are not allowed more than one wife. Devotees should have no wife if possible, but those who cannot maintain celibacy, they can marry one wife. At the present moment people are so unfortunate they cannot maintain even one wife. First of all at the present moment they are not married and remain mostly unmarried. So for such persons even one wife is a great burden. Under the circumstances how one can think of more than one wife? This is stupidity.” There are more, but this just shows that, although I don’t claim this one purport supersedes all others, it is also not an isolated instruction.

 

*** objects to my saying that his research shows that, “in the abstract, we should have little objection” polygamy practiced by men as qualified as Dasharath. He’s particularly upset by “little objection” and suggests we should have “NO” objection. He also doesn’t like “in the abstract.” I agree. I’m happy to change it to “In principle, we should have no objection to the kind of polygamy practiced by men with qualifications similar to King Dasharath’s.” Despite ***’s cleverness, I have no desire to obstruct our understanding of varnashrama-dharma, but to encourage careful understanding and even more careful application.

 

At one point, Ameyatama concedes that, so far, experiments with polygamy have failed. Then he suggests that “most” monogamous marriages have failed as well, so perhaps we should give up on marriage altogether and just couple like animals. I’m sorry he wasted any of his time energy, and space on this unfortunate point. This is a clear case of the logical fallacy called argumentum ad absurdum.

 

Although *** claims that polygamy is not meant for increasing sex life, Srila Prabhupada seems to have another opinion. In a 1973 letter to Rupanuga, he wrote, “After conferring with my various GBC representatives I have concluded that polygamy must be strictly prohibited in our society. Although it is a Vedic institution still there are so many legal implications. Neither are many of our men fixed up enough to tend for more than one wife. Polygamy will simply increase the sex life and our philosophy is to gradually decrease the sex life till eventually there is no sex life.” Of course polygamy is ideally meant for protecting women. But that’s not its only purpose, as we see in a Srimad-Bhagavatam purport: “A man is allowed to keep more than one wife because he cannot enjoy sex when the wife is pregnant. If he wants to enjoy sex at such a time, he may go to another wife who is not pregnant. These are laws mentioned in the Manu-samhita and other scriptures” (SB4.26.4, purport). And in a Bhagavatam class, he said, “According to Vedic civilization, because man is very aggressive, so he's allowed to accept more than one wife.”

 

Finally, *** invokes examples different from Lord Ramachandra’s that he seems to think Srila Prabhupada wanted us to follow. Bhima, Arjuna, and other devotees, he points out, had more than one wife. Of course, they were rich kings and perfect devotees. Lord Nityananda had more than one wife, *** says. Maybe, but the example of Nityananda Prabhu’s Srila Prabhupada wants us to follow is his compassion and tireless preaching of the holy names, not his disregard for social conventions. Even Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he says, ignored Lord Rama’s example by remarrying after his first wife’s passing. In fact, He did, but only at the insistence of his widowed mother. He also left his wife at age 24 to go preach all over India.

 

Ultimately, as evidenced by ***’s title, he suggests we follow the example of Lord Krishna, who had 16,108 wives. However, when Srila Prabhupada discusses the Lord’s household, he doesn’t suggest it as a model for ours, except that, despite lying comfortably next to our wives, we should rise early in the morning, bathe and meditate on Krishna. Instead, Srila Prabhupada points out that Krishna accepted 16,108 wives to demonstrate His opulence as the full-fledged Personality of Godhead. This is one way Krishna shows He is not one of us!

 

Once more, in case it’s not clear to some, I’m not opposing polygamy. I’m only suggesting that we discuss the issue fully and apply it carefully. In fact, I expect this to be my last article on the subject. I’m much more interested in how we discuss it than in whether *** or anyone else has more wives than I. Neither do I suggest that anyone with an opinion different from mine is an atheist or infected with sinful desires of some sort. I only advocate careful and civil discourse among devotees, especially in public.

 

Perhaps we should follow Srila Prabhupada’s example. If necessary, marry one wife or husband, conduct our home lives according to the instructions of our spiritual master, gradually give up all material endeavor and sense gratification, and immerse ourselves in distributing prasadam, protecting cows, and chanting and broadcasting the glories of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s sankirtan movement. After all, Narada Muni testifies that “those who are always full of cares and anxieties due to desiring contact of the senses with their objects can cross the ocean of nescience on a most suitable boat—the constant chanting of the transcendental activities of the Personality of Godhead.”

 

Babhru das

[SubashRao]

Dear Prabhus...

 

thank you very much for the prompt replies...

really appreciate it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

so for this age polygamy is not recommended. ok.

 

but i still need an evidence (i mean from vedas or puranas)to show that polygamy is/was not illegal in hinduisme and wat are the rules of carrying out polygamy the correct way..and on what reasons polygamy is allowed.

 

thank you very much...

[damodar1]

Srila prabhupada has clearly stated that DUE TO LEGAL (MUNDANE MODERN LAWS) we should not allow polygamy. But vedas dont prohibit it in Kali Yuga. In principle SP is not against it. Because of LEGAL COMPLICATIONS that devotees will land themselves in, SP rejected it.

[Guest guest]

Hinduism allowed polyandry because Draupadi had 5 husbands.

 

In Tibet and other places like South America they practiced polyandry it is just a material consideration if not enough people around. Nobody got bent out of shape about it. It's part of the modes of material nature.

 

Just look at anyone's astrological chart and says right there if they can be faithful to one person entire life or have several spouses. So how it gets handled in real life is up to the socio-economic class of the people.

 

Even in Bhagavatam it says that in Kali Yuga people will go from one person to another. So that is called serial polygamy. So which system do you want to use, then move to that country. What can your psychology handle?

 

In France they say that "The bonds of matrimony are so heavy that it takes three people to carry them." So everyone has a different nature and even every society.

 

 

Just use your common sense. Look to the astrological chart it will tell you if the person is a player or not.

[Vedesu]

Apart from the legalities of polygamy, Srila Prabhupada did not approve due to the probability of increased sense gratification. In two separate letters he stated:

 

"Polygamy will simply increase the sex life and our philosophy is to gradually decrease the sex life till eventually there is no sex life."

 

"We are trying to minimize sex and you are trying to increase it. Please give up this idea."

[Guruvani]

In his married life early on, Srila Prabhupada wanted to accept a second wife.

His father talked against such an idea, so Abhaya Charan De accepted the advice of his father and didn't accept a second wife.

[Guruvani]

When Srila Prabhupada was a little boy he asked his Dad to buy him a toy pistol and a holster.

His father agreed.

Lil' Abhay then asked his Dad if he could get two guns.

His father asked him why he needed 2 guns and lil' Abhaya said "one for each hand".

[stonehearted]

As I metnion in one of the above articles, this is Srila Prabhupada's principle, as stated in his purport to SB 9.10.54:

 

Eka-patni-vrata, accepting only one wife, was the glorious example set by Lord Ramacandra. One should not accept more than one wife. In those days, of course, people did marry more than one wife. Even Lord Ramacandra’s father accepted more wives than one. But Lord Ramacandra, as an ideal king, accepted only one wife, mother Sita. When Mother Sita was kidnapped by Ravana and the Raksasas, Lord Ramacandra, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, could have married hundreds and thousands of Sitas, but to teach us how to be faithful He was to His wife, He fought with Ravana and finally killed him. The Lord punished Ravana and rescued His wife to instruct men to have only one wife. Lord Ramacandra accepted only one wife and manifested sublime character, thus setting an example for householders. A householder should live according to the ideal of Lord Ramacandra, who showed how to be a perfect person.