krsna Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Importance of self-control Yudhisthira inquired, “How should one react to people who insult you by their rudeness and arrogance?” Bhisma replied, “If one does not become angry when insulted by another, then he takes away all the pious merit that person may have accumulated by good deeds. In addition he transfers to the abuser his own sinful reactions. After all what is the value of praise or blame when uttered by a vulgar fool? A person who praises some one in his presence but criticizes him behind his back is no better that a dog.” Yudhisthira, “How should one debate with an unscrupulous person?” Bhisma replied, “In a debate the tactics of a truthful person are limited, but a deceitful person can utilize any abominable method. However if the truthful person were to use the same tactics as his opponent, he will find himself at a greater disadvantage, for he is acting contrary to his nature. Therefore a truthful and honest person should always avoid an argument with an unscrupulous person.” Yudhisthira then inquired, “How should one behave towards a more powerful enemy?” Bhisma replied, “Even though the swift current of the river can uproot and carry huge trees, the canes survive since they bend with the current. Similarly in order to survive an enemy more powerful, one must yield while staying firmly anchored to the roots.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What should a weak person do if out of foolishness and pride he provokes a powerful enemy?” Bhisma replied, “O King, the weaker person must repent and thus appease the stronger enemy.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What is the origin of all sin?” Bhisma replied, “Greed, the hankering to posses more than one’s naturally ordained quota is the origin of all sin. The desire to posses that which belongs to another is insatiable and gives rise to anger, lust, loss of judgment, arrogance, miserliness, lack of compassion, enviousness, mistrust and many other evils. Ignorance is made up of the same material as greed, though if analyzed it can be seen that ignorance also comes from greed. As one’s greed increases, his ignorance also becomes more dense.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What produces the highest merit?” Bhisma replied, “Self-restraint surpasses all other activities in this regard and is therefore considered to be the highest virtue. Because self-restraint purifies and controls every aspect of one’s life it is more important than giving in charity and the study of the Vedas. By self-restraint alone one can achieve liberation from the material world. Self-restraint comprises sense-control, freedom from anger, non-enviousness, impartiality, truthfulness, steadiness and contentment. However, the essential quality of self-restraint is austerity. Thus no good can be achieved without austerity.” Yudhisthira then inquired, “O Bhisma, is there any rule that should never be violated under any condition?” Bhisma replied. “The worship of true brahmans and giving them all kinds of respect must never be given up under any circumstance” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 where is the source of those quotes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Mahabharata, Shanti-parva, ch. 300. * * * Mahabharata, Shanti-parva - Chapter 300 Bhishma narrates the story of the Swan and the Sadhyas in demonstrating the virtues of self-restraint and control of anger, imparting some important lessons to be embraced by one and all. =o)O(o= "Yudhishthira said, 'O grandsire, learned men praise truth, self-restraint, forgiveness, and wisdom. What is thy opinion of these virtues?' "Bhishma said, 'In this connection I shall recite to thee an old narrative, O Yudhishthira, of the discourse between the Sadhyas and a Swan. Once on a time the Unborn and eternal Lord of all creatures (viz., Brahman), assuming the form of a golden Swan, wandered through the three worlds till in course of his wanderings he came upon the Sadhyas.' "The Sadhyas said, 'O ford, we are the deities called Sadhyas. We like to question thee. Indeed, we would ask thee about the religion of Emancipation. Thou art well-acquainted with it. We have heard, O bird, that thou art possessed of great learning, and eloquent and wise of speech. O bird, what dost thou think is the highest of all objects? O high-souled one, in what does thy mind find pleasure? Do thou, therefore, O foremost of birds, instruct us as to what that one act is which thou regardest as the foremost of all acts, and by doing which, O chief of the feathery creation, one may soon be freed from all bonds.' "The Swan said, 'Ye who have drunk Amrita, I have heard that one should have recourse to these, viz., penances, self-restraint, truth, and subjugation of the mind. Untying all the knots of the heart, one should also bring under one's control both what is agreeable and what is disagreeable. One should not wound the vitals of others. One should not be an utterer of cruel speeches. One should never take scriptural lectures from a person that is mean. One should never utter such words as inflict pain on others, as cause others to burn (with misery), and as lead to hell. Wordy shafts fall from the lips. Pierced therewith one (to whom they are directed) burns incessantly. Those shafts do not strike any part other than the very vitals of the person aimed. Hence he that is possessed of learning should never aim them at others. If a person deeply pierces a man of wisdom with wordy shafts, the wise mart should then adopt peace (without giving way to wrath). The man who, though sought to be angered, rejoices without yielding to anger, taketh away from the provoker all his merits. That man of righteous soul, who, full of joy and freed from malice, subdues his blazing wrath which, if indulged, would lead him to speak ill of others and verily become his foe, takes away the merits of others. As regards myself, I never answer I when another speaks ill of me. If assailed, I always forgive the assault. The righteous are of opinion that forgiveness and truth and sincerity and compassion are the foremost (of all virtues). Truth is the arcanum of the Vedas. The arcanum of Truth is self-restraint. The arcanum of self-restraint is Emancipation. This is the teaching of all the scriptures. I regard that person to be Brahmana and Muni who subjugates the rising impulse of speech, the impulse of wrath appearing in the mind, the impulse of thirst (after unworthy things), and the impulses of the stomach and the organ of pleasure. One who does not yield to wrath is superior to one who does. One who practises renunciation is superior to one who does not. One who possesses the virtues of manhood is superior to one who has them not. One who is endued with knowledge is superior to one who is destitute of it. Assailed with harsh speeches, one should not assail in return. Indeed, one who, under such circumstances, renounces wrath, succeeds in burning the assailant and taking away all his merits. That person, who when assailed with harsh speeches, does not utter a harsh word in reply, who when praised does not utter what is agreeable to him that praises, who is endued with such fortitude as not to strike in return when struck and not to even wish evil to the striker, finds his companionship always coveted by the gods. He that is sinful should be forgiven as if he were righteous, by one that is insulted, struck, and calumniated. By acting in this way, one attains to success. Though all my objects have been fulfilled, yet I always wait reverentially on those that are righteous. I have no thirst. My wrath hath been suppressed. Seduced by covetousness, I do not fall away from the path of righteousness. I do not also approach any one (with solicitations) for wealth. If cursed, I do not curse in return. I know that self-restraint is the door of immortality. I disclose unto you a great mystery. There is no status that is superior to that of humanity. Freed from sin like the Moon from murky clouds, the man of wisdom, shining in resplendence, attains to success by patiently waiting for his time. A person of restrained soul, who becomes the object of adoration with all by becoming the foremost of the supporting pillars of the universe, and towards whom only agreeable words are spoken by all, attains to the companionship of the deities. Revilers never come forward to speak of the merits of a person as they speak of his demerits. That person, whose speech and mind are properly restrained and always devoted to the Supreme, succeeds in attaining to the fruits of the Vedas, Penances, and Renunciation. The man of wisdom should never revile (in return) those that are destitute of merit, by uttering their dispraise and by insults. He should not extol others (being extolled by them) and should never injure themselves. The man endued with wisdom and learning regards revilement as nectar. Reviled, he sleeps without anxiety. The reviler, on the other hand, meets with destruction. The sacrifices that one performs in anger, the gifts one makes in anger, the penances one undergoes in anger, and the offerings and libations one makes to the sacred fire in anger, are such that their merits are robbed by Yama. The toil of an angry man becomes entirely fruitless. Ye foremost of immortals, that person is said to be conversant with righteousness whose four doors, viz., the organ of pleasure, the stomach, the two arms, and speech, are well-restrained. That person who, always practising truth and self-restraint and sincerity and compassion and patience and renunciation, becomes devoted to the study of the Vedas, does not covet what belongs to others, and pursues what is good with a singleness of purpose, succeeds in attaining to heaven. Like a calf sucking all the four teats of its dam's udders, one should devote oneself to the practice of all these virtues. I do not know whether anything exists that is more sacred than Truth. Having roved among both human beings and the deities, I declare it that Truth is the only means for reaching heaven even as a ship is the only means for crossing the ocean. A person becomes like those with whom he dwells, and like those whom he reverences, and like to what he wishes to be. If a person waits with reverence on him who is good or him who is otherwise, if he waits with reverence on a sage possessed of ascetic merit or on a thief, passes under his way and catches his hue like a piece of cloth catching the dye in which it is steeped. The deities always converse with those that are possessed of wisdom and goodness. They, therefore, never entertain the wish for even seeing the enjoyments in which men take pleasure. The person who knows that all objects of enjoyment (which human beings cherish) are characterised by vicissitudes, has few rivals, and is superior to the very Moon and the Wind. When the Purusha that dwells in one's heart is unstained, and walks in the path of the righteous, the gods take a pleasure in him. The gods from a distance cast off those that are always devoted to the gratification of their organs of pleasure and the stomach, that are addicted to thieving, and that always indulge in harsh speeches, even if they expiate their offences by performing the proper rites. The gods are never pleased with one of mean soul, with one who observes no restrictions in the matter of food, and with one who is of sinful deeds. On the other hand, the gods associate with those men that are observant of the vow of truth, that are grateful, and that are engaged in the practice of righteousness. Silence is better than speech. To speak the truth is better than silence. Again to speak truth that is connected with righteousness is better than to speak the truth. To speak that which, besides being true and righteous, is agreeable, is better than to speak truth connected with righteousness.' "The Sadhyas said, 'By what is this world covered? For what reason does one fail to shine? For what cause do people cast off their friends? For what reason do people fail to attain to heaven?' "The Swan said, 'The world is enveloped by (the darkness of) Ignorance. Men fail to shine in consequence of malice. People cast off friends, induced by covetousness. Men fail to attain to heaven in consequence of attachment.' "The Sadhyas said, 'Who alone among the Brahmanas is always happy? Who alone amongst them can observe the vow of silence though dwelling in the midst of many? Who alone amongst them, though weak, is still regarded as strong? And who alone amongst them does not quarrel?' "The Swan said, 'He alone amongst the Brahmanas that is possessed of wisdom is always happy. He alone amongst the Brahmanas that is possessed of wisdom succeeds in observing the vow of silence, though dwelling in the midst of many. He alone amongst the Brahmanas who is possessed of wisdom, though actually weak, is regarded as strong. He alone amongst them that has wisdom succeeds in avoiding quarrel.' "The Sadhyas said, 'In what consists the divinity of the Brahmanas? In what their purity? In what their impurity? And in what their status of humanity?' "The Swan said, 'In the study of the Vedas is the divinity of the Brahmanas. In their vows and observances is their purity. In obloquy is their impurity. In death is their humanity.' "Bhishma continued, 'Thus have I recited to thee excellent narrative of the discourse between the Sadhyas (and the Swan). The body (both gross and subtle) is the origin of acts, and existence or Jiva is truth.' =o)O(o= [Translated from Sanskrit by Kisari Mohan Ganguli, scanned at sacred-texts.com.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Importance of self-control Yudhisthira inquired, “How should one react to people who insult you by their rudeness and arrogance?” Bhisma replied, “If one does not become angry when insulted by another, then he takes away all the pious merit that person may have accumulated by good deeds. In addition he transfers to the abuser his own sinful reactions. After all what is the value of praise or blame when uttered by a vulgar fool? A person who praises some one in his presence but criticizes him behind his back is no better that a dog.” Yudhisthira, “How should one debate with an unscrupulous person?” Bhisma replied, “In a debate the tactics of a truthful person are limited, but a deceitful person can utilize any abominable method. However if the truthful person were to use the same tactics as his opponent, he will find himself at a greater disadvantage, for he is acting contrary to his nature. Therefore a truthful and honest person should always avoid an argument with an unscrupulous person.” Yudhisthira then inquired, “How should one behave towards a more powerful enemy?” Bhisma replied, “Even though the swift current of the river can uproot and carry huge trees, the canes survive since they bend with the current. Similarly in order to survive an enemy more powerful, one must yield while staying firmly anchored to the roots.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What should a weak person do if out of foolishness and pride he provokes a powerful enemy?” Bhisma replied, “O King, the weaker person must repent and thus appease the stronger enemy.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What is the origin of all sin?” Bhisma replied, “Greed, the hankering to posses more than one’s naturally ordained quota is the origin of all sin. The desire to posses that which belongs to another is insatiable and gives rise to anger, lust, loss of judgment, arrogance, miserliness, lack of compassion, enviousness, mistrust and many other evils. Ignorance is made up of the same material as greed, though if analyzed it can be seen that ignorance also comes from greed. As one’s greed increases, his ignorance also becomes more dense.” Yudhisthira inquired, “What produces the highest merit?” Bhisma replied, “Self-restraint surpasses all other activities in this regard and is therefore considered to be the highest virtue. Because self-restraint purifies and controls every aspect of one’s life it is more important than giving in charity and the study of the Vedas. By self-restraint alone one can achieve liberation from the material world. Self-restraint comprises sense-control, freedom from anger, non-enviousness, impartiality, truthfulness, steadiness and contentment. However, the essential quality of self-restraint is austerity. Thus no good can be achieved without austerity.” Yudhisthira then inquired, “O Bhisma, is there any rule that should never be violated under any condition?” Bhisma replied. “The worship of true brahmans and giving them all kinds of respect must never be given up under any circumstance” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 So... how should one react if getting offended and insulted by whole groups of people, who are threatening to take over your country, are eager to destry your culture and want to replace it with theirs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 ... like the pandavas did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Yes..... thank you.....i totally agree with you and can't wait for that day to come and see peace arrive all over.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The truth is that only people who are arrogant, who still hold on to their egos, can be insulted. A devotee who has surrendered his ego can never be insulted, nor feel humiliation. The Pandavas were not fighting because the Kauravas had insulted them, they were fighting because they were protecting society from adharma and injustice. If the Kauravas had remained in power then no woman would ever have been safe. No saintly person would have been allowed to practice Bhakti. No laws would have restrained the Kauravas from taking whatever they wanted from anyone. So they had to be defeated. If it had been about their egos and the insult given to them, Yudhistir would never have agreed to the proposal of the Kauravas giving him five villages. He was an emperor, why would he want just five villages? That would be humiliating! But in the interests of peace and re-establishing dharma, he was ready to accept five villages rather than his beautiful kingdom of Indraprastha. No one should accuse the Pandavas of arrogance. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 [Yudhisthira inquired, “How should one react to people who insult you by their rudeness and arrogance?” Bhisma replied, “If one does not become angry when insulted by another, then he takes away all the pious merit that person may have accumulated by good deeds. In addition he transfers to the abuser his own sinful reactions. After all what is the value of praise or blame when uttered by a vulgar fool? A person who praises some one in his presence but criticizes him behind his back is no better that a dog.” /QUOTE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 How does one determine if a response is angry, especially over the internet? Obviously if one is making personal remarks about character and spiritual state, then that is not a good sign. It is best therefore to avoid all personal characterizations. To address issues, statements, without such attacks is always valid, but if a person continues to respond with you are such and such bad character, then ignoring is best IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 How does one determine if a response is angry, especially over the internet? i dunno; maybe chant a bit on it Obviously if one is making personal remarks about character and spiritual state, then that is not a good sign. Seems you answered your own question It is best therefore to avoid all personal characterizations. To address issues, statements, without such attacks is always valid, but if a person continues to respond with you are such and such bad character, then ignoring is best IMO. The real character issue that any can equally observe is integrity. Some may have a little more data to reflect from, but most can see how when someone is in doubt, they abuse their integrity and fib to retain a position of knowing, as if absolute based on an opinion. Or my favorite on this site is the quoting of another to answer questions. Almost like a parot; incapable of conversing with mind and reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yes. I could not say it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yes. I could not say it any better. Hey..... a true statement. you're correct, you be 'old school' and soon 'the young will begin to teach the old' it's in many of the old prophecies..... you all left us with kali yuga, and you are experiencing the 'change of the guard.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 i dunno; maybe chant a bit on itSeems you answered your own question The real character issue that any can equally observe is integrity. Some may have a little more data to reflect from, but most can see how when someone is in doubt, they abuse their integrity and fib to retain a position of knowing, as if absolute based on an opinion. Or my favorite on this site is the quoting of another to answer questions. Almost like a parot; incapable of conversing with mind and reason. My question was rhetorical. A lead to one possible answer. Best not to make characterizations. Basing one's statements about a particular belief system like Gaudiya Vaisnavism, by quoting an authority on the subject is not parroting - it's called supporting with references. If you've ever written a paper that is what is expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 My question was rhetorical. OK so written as a loaded question? A lead to one possible answer. Learning these skills myself. Best not to make characterizations. Then we both have an answer that the 'rhetorical' question or wording you used was not that good.......... an honest opinion, be nice... Basing one's statements about a particular belief system like Gaudiya Vaisnavism, by quoting an authority on the subject is not parroting - it's called supporting with references. If you've ever written a paper that is what is expected. referencing is usually done at the end of the paper, not as the paper. Meaning when a point is made, the discussion follows, then references are furnished when questions come and as a last resort, a return to benchmarks (references) entails. Such to say; what is life? Then a list of items concerning life should be presented; not and 'so and so said'....... that is where there is a huge divide of articulation, as 'so and so,' did not know either, otherwise why would anyone ask, they could look it up for themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hey bhaktajan, That's right, Mr bhaktajan, I'm tawking to you! What's your problem? You need attention? 99% of your posts make no sense. Bhaktajan, you are so full of your self. Your speech patterns are in-decipherable. I get a headache from giving you a moments read. Where do I get the nerve to think I know what I'm tawking about? From now on I shall be ignoring any comments I make! I can't take it anymore, do I hear myself good enough for you--propbably not--you are so vain, I meant it! I am so vain and tire of me! Well, you know what I stand for and everybody else knows what I stand for --and I can't take it any more. I am such a loud opinionated veteren that the last person I need telling how to think and speak is me! You are not going to have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore. Do I really think that nobody knows about my Uncle Gupta's affliction? We all know about my un-controlled out-bursts against fools like myself. We have been waiting for some one to finally put myself in his place and tell me where I sould go --well, finally, here I am. And I will not put up a fight. Do you hear me? Yes, I think Bhaktajan thinks he can cut the cheese better than others can. We all know about how puffed-up Bhaktajan is, it's no secret--he'd be the first to tell you replete with some fancy-shmancy Sanskrit Poster into the bargin. Well no more. I am logging out and I don't know how many minutes until I will allow myself another post. I hope this makes you happy, there! I've gone and said and that's that! From now on I will just keep things to myself not. good bye, you know who I am; stop being sooo smart, Bhaktajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 OK so written as a loaded question? Learning these skills myself. Then we both have an answer that the 'rhetorical' question or wording you used was not that good.......... an honest opinion, be nice... referencing is usually done at the end of the paper, not as the paper. Meaning when a point is made, the discussion follows, then references are furnished when questions come and as a last resort, a return to benchmarks (references) entails. Such to say; what is life? Then a list of items concerning life should be presented; not and 'so and so said'....... that is where there is a huge divide of articulation, as 'so and so,' did not know either, otherwise why would anyone ask, they could look it up for themselves How does the rhetorical question not define the issue? Papers are full of inline quotes BTW. This a forum, so there is no 'back of the book' reference section. Also in a devotional setting such as this forum - authority counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 How does the rhetorical question not define the issue?Papers are full of inline quotes BTW. This a forum, so there is no 'back of the book' reference section. Also in a devotional setting such as this forum - authority counts. The question did not convey as such, my opinion. Then what is the final authority? Something equal to mankind and final in comprehensive text? Currently have 5 panels on my screen with access to data on every continent; name the final authority so a student can read without all the contradictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 The question did not convey as such, my opinion. Then what is the final authority? Something equal to mankind and final in comprehensive text? Currently have 5 panels on my screen with access to data on every continent; name the final authority so a student can read without all the contradictions. So much miscommunication occurs on the internet because it's impersonal. So the question how can you tell somebody is angry is an important one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 this thread as Originally Posted by krsna, is such a great service. I have copied and saved and printed it out and fowarded it via e-mail. Thank you fro posting relevant & profound scriptural verses that: 'no one can argue with' --but learn from with jaw-dropping awe, veneration and a 'good & wholesome' sense of mutual civic fear. Quite pertinent to this war-time era we are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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