Guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Swaminarayan devotees number about 5 million, out of nearly 1 billion Hindus. Only five million deluded Hindus consider this hoax to be god. At one time the whole world was Hindu and 200 years after Shri Krishna went to Golok their wasnt even 500 followers of Shri Krishna. Does that mean He was not God?? You fool. What a foolish thing to say. You will realise for yourself when your soul leaves the body. Till then dont fall prey to sin by stating such. Swaminarayan is still the name recognised in every universe let alone this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionate-freak Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Hello everyone, Well, there's a line in a Guru Bhajan... Naanaa Pantha Jagat mein Nija Nija Guna Gave... Saba Kaa saar bataa kar Guru Paara Lave... IT's exactly what's going after the departure of great people like swami Narayana. I'm not against him or his teachings or anything... but he is not exactly the God but has attained the Godly state by the perseverance and the Sadhanas. ANyone with the awken Kundalini could possess that State. Anyone can do anything and free to their faith.So what's wrong that his follower regard him as the God ??? What I'd like to say is if you really believe in him then am I allowed to ask to what extent ???? For me people like him are greater than any God as I regard him as true Guru or you may call a Satguru. The position of Guru is higher than any God so people beaware and do not underestimate dining into your ignorance. And it's a hard truth that you people are creating a cult another nasty religion. Tell me how many of you have attained the perfection??? And tell me how much do you love him???? Satguru like Swami Narayan is not hungry of any material but of love. Then touch your heart and ask yourself that do you really love him unconditionally???? The true prayer for him would be paying your inner love not worshiping and all those Dhupa Dipa kinda stuffs. Wake up, the coming days going to be really harsh. Spiritualism is a mystery.............. if you don't get it right away then you will repent later. Stop talking about anything or anyone but try your best to be like one of those true sons of the God...the holy saints. may the peace, prosperity and the love prevail the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionate-freak Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 At one time the whole world was Hindu and 200 years after Shri Krishna went to Golok their wasnt even 500 followers of Shri Krishna. Does that mean He was not God?? You fool. What a foolish thing to say. You will realise for yourself when your soul leaves the body. Till then dont fall prey to sin by stating such. Swaminarayan is still the name recognised in every universe let alone this world. Our is the corspe-worshiper-kinda-society and it always remained like that and will continue on that. When Buddha was alive what people did to him ??? When Mahavira was here what they did??? And when Krishna was here ,when Jesus was here and when all those great saints were here what peole did???? See, now people are worshiping them with Dhupa Dipa and all stuffs because the statue and the dead one never gonna point a finger on us that you are wrong here... you gotta be like that and stop doing that and follow this rather that...etcetra...and certainly that gonna hurt our ego. It's what people never dared following a real living Guru. And later we creat a God into them, make statue and pray and offer bribe like we go to the temples... Pls Ganapati do it for me I'll get you One kg of Suddha Ghee's Laddu... kinda stuffs. We are really a living fools afraid of knowing real things which gonan hurt our ego. This is the only problem persiting as a hierarchy in human minds of all ages. Till we are not ready to give up our ego... we'll be finding some people with Godly powers, ask to fulfill some materials when they are gone seek for the salvation worshiping their statues. Wake up people still there's a hope...................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riih.qarojamahoamaan Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 It is like the question of Christians, worship the Father or the Son? To worship a created entity is idolatry, but Christ is not created, he is born, he is of the same essence as the Father. So Christ worship is no idolatry. Then, when we say "RAAMAJAYA", in raamAJAya there is AJA, the unborn. So by worshipping the avataaras, in fact we worship the unborn. Both manifest and unmanifest is the same god. Now, the swaaminaaraya,na mantra is really good, because if you try it you shall see it gives you energy, it gives you the power to overcome alashya, so this means it can save from all bad influences, it is a true vaisnava mantra as long as it is pronounced correctly as: OM SWAAMINAARAAYA,NA (OM must be prefixed, the O with duration of 3 plutas) This is easy for hindus to pronounce without mistakes, so it works. I don't know other vaisnava mantras pronounced without mistakes. I would repeat what Apostle Paul said: "has Christ been divided, brothers? why should you follow this or that teacher? why should you believe in me? was I sacrificed on the cross to save you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Swaminarayan was Bhagwan Himself. If we were living in that age we would know for ourselves. But unfortunately we dont. But we will realise when our soul leaves the body that He was surely Bhagwan Purshottam Narayan. Till hen i dont think people should question Him or His divinity. He Himself stated His greatness many times to His Bhakts. Millions witnessed this while Swaminarayan Bhagwan was on the earth. The saints at the time wrote thousands of Kirtans of Him. Ladudaan Gadhvi was the Raajkavi of the King of Udaipur. And he alone left all these riches after he had darshan of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and got diksha and became Brahmanand Swami and compiled 10,00 kirtans of Lord Swaminarayan. Thsi is just one of 1500 sanyaasis who were initiated into the fold. These saints were also the avtaars of many big rishis!! Such as Pulatsya, Vibhandak, Maitrey etc! They were not normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionate-freak Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hello guys, I think it's useless to discuss about whether the particular person is God or not. Let it be on the follower. If anyone can accept a cold stone a God why not an enlightened human being like Swami Narayan. Leave this filthy thing. Rather we gotta concentrate on more serious matters like whether I am going exactly??? Am I on the path of Enlightenment? Anyone can follow anyone and regard him/her anything but does it leading us to the final truth? If you ask me how to describe an incarnation of God according to Krishna telling in Mahabharata, then we gotta find Janma Patri of Krishna, Rama, Buddha and have a nice look on it to find out what similarities are there and find out the person's Janma Patri of our time and see if there are similarities!!! It's simple.If you people think Swami Narayan is the last incarnation , then do it and can produce it as the proof to others. I fnot then forget he is the incarnation. I regard him as a Guru, and Guru's position is above any God's for his disciples. According to Vishwamitra, incarnation is possible in 2500 years only. I got to know about a book which describes what manifests the incarnation written by a residence of Varanashi. He took references from a hand written book by Shree Krishna's Guru Sandipan Maharaj. Anyone can satisfy the thirsts for the truth, if seeking the truth only. Grow up people, I'm fed off of the cults and the sects... seek the real truth. We need a living Guru to guide us to the path not the history... regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hello guys, I think it's useless to discuss about whether the particular person is God or not. Let it be on the follower. If anyone can accept a cold stone a God why not an enlightened human being like Swami Narayan. Leave this filthy thing. Rather we gotta concentrate on more serious matters like whether I am going exactly??? Am I on the path of Enlightenment? Anyone can follow anyone and regard him/her anything but does it leading us to the final truth? If you ask me how to describe an incarnation of God according to Krishna telling in Mahabharata, then we gotta find Janma Patri of Krishna, Rama, Buddha and have a nice look on it to find out what similarities are there and find out the person's Janma Patri of our time and see if there are similarities!!! It's simple.If you people think Swami Narayan is the last incarnation , then do it and can produce it as the proof to others. I fnot then forget he is the incarnation. I regard him as a Guru, and Guru's position is above any God's for his disciples. According to Vishwamitra, incarnation is possible in 2500 years only. I got to know about a book which describes what manifests the incarnation written by a residence of Varanashi. He took references from a hand written book by Shree Krishna's Guru Sandipan Maharaj. Anyone can satisfy the thirsts for the truth, if seeking the truth only. Grow up people, I'm fed off of the cults and the sects... seek the real truth. We need a living Guru to guide us to the path not the history... regards We do not need to prove to anyone. We are contempt in what we believe. People that dont believe should do their own research if they doubt bhagwan Swaminarayan. Do you even know about every single avtaar? No you do not as even Bhagwan Himself tells Narad that whom shall i tell you about? i have many avtaars that i cannot even name. So if Narad Himself doesnt know how can me and you? We dont need to look at no janam patris etc. Thats foolish. By the way we followers of Swaminarayan Bhagwan do not see Him as the last avtaars at all. Their will still be Kalki and many more in between that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Swaminarayan devotees number about 5 million, out of nearly 1 billion Hindus. Only five million deluded Hindus consider this hoax to be god. lol, the swaminaryan sect of Hinduism is the fastest growing branch of Hinduism, we have temples in every country. BAPS will soon have a whole country to run. GodBless Pramukh Swami! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 lol, the swaminaryan sect of Hinduism is the fastest growing branch of Hinduism, we have temples in every country. BAPS will soon have a whole country to run. GodBless Pramukh Swami! Yes the Swaminarayan Sect is the fastest growing sect of hinduism. Im a follower of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. But i think your opinion is disgusting. Its no tabout running a country etc. Thats not what Swaminarayan Bhagwan taught. Its all about Ekantik Dharm and Satsang and attaining prem Lakshana Bhakti full of love fr Bhagwan. Thats why i dnt agree with teh BAPS cult offshoot. I think its time people looked at the origins of the Swaminarayan Satsang and how they lay in the original satsang f Amdavad and Vartal today. Read the very first Vachnamrut even. Jay Swaminarayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Yes the Swaminarayan Sect is the fastest growing sect of hinduism. Im a follower of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. But i think your opinion is disgusting. Its no tabout running a country etc. Thats not what Swaminarayan Bhagwan taught. Its all about Ekantik Dharm and Satsang and attaining prem Lakshana Bhakti full of love fr Bhagwan. Thats why i dnt agree with teh BAPS cult offshoot. I think its time people looked at the origins of the Swaminarayan Satsang and how they lay in the original satsang f Amdavad and Vartal today. Read the very first Vachnamrut even. Jay Swaminarayan BAPS is the fastest growing Swaminaryan group. It's not an offshot. It's definately the most clean, in terms of history, Swaminaryan sect. The Shree Swaminaryan Sampradaya has had sex scandal, drugs, and prostitution etc... They are corrupt. If anything, i'd rather be apart of an "offshot" then the Shree Sampradya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 BAPS is the fastest growing Swaminaryan group. It's not an offshot. It's definately the most clean, in terms of history, Swaminaryan sect. The Shree Swaminaryan Sampradaya has had sex scandal, drugs, and prostitution etc... They are corrupt. If anything, i'd rather be apart of an "offshot" then the Shree Sampradya. Jayswaminarayan To those ignorant BAP's satsangi's ... I have to say I feel no less than pity at the state of your ignorance. First and foremost, I want you to read the REAL shikshapatri and vachanamrut... rather than the Pramukh swamis version of it. Did you know the BAPS sanstha has changed the original text of what Bhagwan has written? There are only TWO genuine heirs to the shree swaminarayan gadi...and they are the BLOOD relatives of Bhagwan himself. He adopted the children of his two brothers and made them the official guru's of this gadi. Ahemdabad and Vaadtal. The mandirs that BAPS have created, are simply a monopoly of mandirs built for power. It clearly states in the shikshaptri, that any idol of mine in a mandir MUST be blessed by the presence of either two gadi's that he has installed. That being true...the BAPS mandirs amount to no more than rich temples with no religious significance to our lord...shree swaminarayan. God has simply stated I will always live within the idols of a shrine, the holy scriptures and the gadi. So how can he live within something that has been created without his consent? Or without the consent of the present Gadi holders? The orginal gadi does not travel the world and educate people of hinduism in order to gain powerful credentials for itself (BAPS does). It humbly puts bhagwan and his teachings first. Never will you see a photo of our guru next to an idol of god. That is something I believe that Pramukh swami does. If you wish to call yourself a swaminarayan satsangi...do your homework and study the REAL history of shree Sahajanand, rather than falling for the ignorance that BAPS are promoting. I'm a proud follower of Swaminarayan and his true teachings... my family all have been! We would not have contempt towards your philosophy on our religion if it was to be of the truth. I have to speak up, before you feed the mind of an indifferent student. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 JayswaminarayanThere are only TWO genuine heirs to the shree swaminarayan gadi...and they are the BLOOD relatives of Bhagwan himself. He adopted the children of his two brothers and made them the official guru's of this gadi. Ahemdabad and Vaadtal. God bless this is false. shree swaminarayan said the acharya is the protector of dharm. he never stated it had to be a descent of his two nephews. whoever protects his dharm the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 this is false. shree swaminarayan said the acharya is the protector of dharm. he never stated it had to be a descent of his two nephews. whoever protects his dharm the best. Umm Not quite my friend. Do you have refernece to validate and proove your point? I do. Read the Satsangi Jivan, Harililamrut, Niskulanand Kavya, Satsangi Jivan and Satsangi Bushan etc. You want me to get the quotes? Also, only a Dharmkul Grahast can be Acharya in the Swaminarayan Sampraday. This is within all th scriptures. This is teh thing BAPS like to assume and ignore the Scriptures alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nav Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hello Friends, I just went through all the posts regarding Lord Swaminarayan. I am basically from South India and have recently joined the BAPS sect of Swaminarayan. According to my opinion, nothing is wrong with BAPS organisation. They follow the teachings of Lord Swaminaryan as laid down, In fact this is the only organisation in the whole world with 775 saints following Ashtang Brahmacharya and they do not touch money. Practising Brahmacharya is not an easy thing for the young ones while living in the society. It is the strength of the guru and divine presence Lord Swaminarayan that is working in BAPS. The guru HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj is an ideal devotee of Lord Swaminarayan, we should think twice before saying anything about such a great Bhakta of Bhagwan. For every bhakt his Bhagwan is sarvopari for him. Because Krishna Bhagwan said in Gita that he is sarvopari, the vaishnavs believe him to be sarvopari. In the same way Swaminarayan Bhagwan has mentioned in the Vachanmrut that he is Sarvopari and Sarva avatari. Look at the work done in society today by BAPS, The New Delhi Akshardham, The mandirs throughout the world, The Satsang Centres, Activities for Youth and Children, and most importantly the Sadhuta (Saintliness) of Pramukh Swami Maharaj, If the work done by them is Sarvopari when compare to any other organisation in the world then whats wrong about their Lord to be Sarvopari. The head of the Sadhu Samaj in India once said that even though I am the head of saints in India but the head of Saintliness is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. What ever activities that are taking place in BAPS is just for the Liberation of the Jivas. Even though Bhagwan Swaminarayan mentioned Krishna Bhagwan in Shikshapatri but in Shloka 101 he says -"Those portion of these Shastras which explain the merits of knowledge of the form of Lord Shri Krishna, of Dharma, of Bhakti and of Vairagya (non-attachment) in highest terms only Shall be treated as taking precedence over all other portions. The sum and substance of all these Shastras is Bhakti of Lord Krishna with Dharma." And in Shlok 203 he says-"I have thus described above in short, general and special Dharmas of all My followers. For further details, they shall refer to other Shastras of My Sampraday" In shlok 203, he dind't mention to refer Gita or Bhagwat, he said Sampraday Scriptures. The Scripture of the Sampraday is Vachanamrut (Discourses of Lord Swaminarayan). And from Shlok 101 he tried to say that we should give importance to the talks related to the Knowledge of the form of Lord Krishna. By Lord Krishna he meant the Lord of the Sampraday which he was himself. And in Vachanmrut he clearly mentions himself to be the Sarvopari Bhagwan. If Lord Swaminarayan and Krishna Bhagwan are same then why would he install Laxmi Narayan and himself in Vadtal. The work of Lord Swaminarayan, the Samadhi Prakran, his talks, his vartan, his Paramhansas, the Ekantik Dharma pravartan, clear concept of Brahman and ParaBrahman, Practical ways of achieving Brahmic State etc and so many other facts show that he is Sarvopari. Like sage Ved Vyas has written the Mahima of Lord Krishna, In the same way his Paramhansas have written the Mahima of Lord Swaminarayan. These are just few points to show that why Swaminarayan followers should believe Lord Swaminarayan to be Sarvopari. 775 saints have not become sadhus just like that, even they have studied scriptures, the vedas, Brahmasutras etc... Also I have seen that many have said BAPS is Vimukh and does whatever it wants to do. I do not agree with these ideas. BAPS is not vimukh, Shastriji Mahraj (3rd Spiritual Successor of Lord Swaminarayan) had to leave vadtal because of Bhagwan Swaminarayan's principle. He tried his best and also had convinced many big heads in Vadtal about the Akshar Purushottam concept. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj gained the Brahmic state from Gunatitand Swami(Akshar Brahman). More over if Acharya's were true successors of Lord Swaminarayan then why was Laxmi Prasad Acharya was removed??? due to his Rajoguni Behaviour and Addictions. And more over many of the Acharyas are not the true family of Maharaj, they have been adopted. When the first Acharya was intiated on Samvat Kartik Sud 11, Their is a Vachanamrut on this date which doesn't show any statement of such intiation that took place on that day. I do not intend to criticize Acharyas but with all due respects to the Acharyas, BAPS is not Vimukh because Akshar Brahman himself has taken up Shreei Mahraj's work in this organisation i.e., Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Out of all the great Spiritual Leaders in India Pramukh Swami has been awarded The Most Influenial personality by Guiness Book Of World records and he really is. As Lord Swaminarayan said In Gadhada I - 27 that he resides in every indriya of his Ekantik Sant, Pramukh Swami is such Ekantik Sant with Lord Swaminarayan Pragat in him (this doesn't make Pramukh Swami God). He is a true discple of Lord Swaminarayan bring many Jivas on the path of Atyantik Kalyan. No offence but Look around the world and try to find one person like Pramukh Swami Maharaj. I just said what ever I felt right after coming into BAPS and learning about the Sampraday. Jai Swaminarayan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hello Friends, I just went through all the posts regarding Lord Swaminarayan. I am basically from South India and have recently joined the BAPS sect of Swaminarayan. According to my opinion, nothing is wrong with BAPS organisation. They follow the teachings of Lord Swaminaryan as laid down, In fact this is the only organisation in the whole world with 775 saints following Ashtang Brahmacharya and they do not touch money. Practising Brahmacharya is not an easy thing for the young ones while living in the society. It is the strength of the guru and divine presence Lord Swaminarayan that is working in BAPS. The guru HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj is an ideal devotee of Lord Swaminarayan, we should think twice before saying anything about such a great Bhakta of Bhagwan. For every bhakt his Bhagwan is sarvopari for him. Because Krishna Bhagwan said in Gita that he is sarvopari, the vaishnavs believe him to be sarvopari. In the same way Swaminarayan Bhagwan has mentioned in the Vachanmrut that he is Sarvopari and Sarva avatari. Look at the work done in society today by BAPS, The New Delhi Akshardham, The mandirs throughout the world, The Satsang Centres, Activities for Youth and Children, and most importantly the Sadhuta (Saintliness) of Pramukh Swami Maharaj, If the work done by them is Sarvopari when compare to any other organisation in the world then whats wrong about their Lord to be Sarvopari. The head of the Sadhu Samaj in India once said that even though I am the head of saints in India but the head of Saintliness is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. What ever activities that are taking place in BAPS is just for the Liberation of the Jivas. Even though Bhagwan Swaminarayan mentioned Krishna Bhagwan in Shikshapatri but in Shloka 101 he says -"Those portion of these Shastras which explain the merits of knowledge of the form of Lord Shri Krishna, of Dharma, of Bhakti and of Vairagya (non-attachment) in highest terms only Shall be treated as taking precedence over all other portions. The sum and substance of all these Shastras is Bhakti of Lord Krishna with Dharma." And in Shlok 203 he says-"I have thus described above in short, general and special Dharmas of all My followers. For further details, they shall refer to other Shastras of My Sampraday" In shlok 203, he dind't mention to refer Gita or Bhagwat, he said Sampraday Scriptures. The Scripture of the Sampraday is Vachanamrut (Discourses of Lord Swaminarayan). And from Shlok 101 he tried to say that we should give importance to the talks related to the Knowledge of the form of Lord Krishna. By Lord Krishna he meant the Lord of the Sampraday which he was himself. And in Vachanmrut he clearly mentions himself to be the Sarvopari Bhagwan. If Lord Swaminarayan and Krishna Bhagwan are same then why would he install Laxmi Narayan and himself in Vadtal. The work of Lord Swaminarayan, the Samadhi Prakran, his talks, his vartan, his Paramhansas, the Ekantik Dharma pravartan, clear concept of Brahman and ParaBrahman, Practical ways of achieving Brahmic State etc and so many other facts show that he is Sarvopari. Like sage Ved Vyas has written the Mahima of Lord Krishna, In the same way his Paramhansas have written the Mahima of Lord Swaminarayan. These are just few points to show that why Swaminarayan followers should believe Lord Swaminarayan to be Sarvopari. 775 saints have not become sadhus just like that, even they have studied scriptures, the vedas, Brahmasutras etc... Also I have seen that many have said BAPS is Vimukh and does whatever it wants to do. I do not agree with these ideas. BAPS is not vimukh, Shastriji Mahraj (3rd Spiritual Successor of Lord Swaminarayan) had to leave vadtal because of Bhagwan Swaminarayan's principle. He tried his best and also had convinced many big heads in Vadtal about the Akshar Purushottam concept. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj gained the Brahmic state from Gunatitand Swami(Akshar Brahman). More over if Acharya's were true successors of Lord Swaminarayan then why was Laxmi Prasad Acharya was removed??? due to his Rajoguni Behaviour and Addictions. And more over many of the Acharyas are not the true family of Maharaj, they have been adopted. When the first Acharya was intiated on Samvat Kartik Sud 11, Their is a Vachanamrut on this date which doesn't show any statement of such intiation that took place on that day. I do not intend to criticize Acharyas but with all due respects to the Acharyas, BAPS is not Vimukh because Akshar Brahman himself has taken up Shreei Mahraj's work in this organisation i.e., Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Out of all the great Spiritual Leaders in India Pramukh Swami has been awarded The Most Influenial personality by Guiness Book Of World records and he really is. As Lord Swaminarayan said In Gadhada I - 27 that he resides in every indriya of his Ekantik Sant, Pramukh Swami is such Ekantik Sant with Lord Swaminarayan Pragat in him (this doesn't make Pramukh Swami God). He is a true discple of Lord Swaminarayan bring many Jivas on the path of Atyantik Kalyan. No offence but Look around the world and try to find one person like Pramukh Swami Maharaj. I just said what ever I felt right after coming into BAPS and learning about the Sampraday. Jai Swaminarayan. Your views will be biased as you have only seen one side. Whereas i have seen both. I dont talk from biased views. First of all If your read the Gunatitanand Swami ni vato. Swami Himself states that the Acharyas shall never be critisised. Those that do critisise shall fall from the Satsang. HAve you read this? If not i will give you a reference so you may read it for yourself. Secondly, All the Acharyas that have been acharyas even todays acharya are of the Dharmvanshi Kul. They are the family of Dharm. So your avgun will do you bad unless you realise for yourself. Not only that but you go on to say that Acharyas have been taken of teh GAdi. Which is true. If you read the Purshottam Parakash, SatsangiJivan, Satsangi Bhushan or Bhakt Chintamani you may relaise for yourself where the truth lays today. You cant just read one scripture and think you know everything. The Acharya's of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened. Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami). The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself. The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family. The Acharya’s role is to: • initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra • initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha • perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples • authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday • act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday. These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas. “My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41) Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas. In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states: “And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship” Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas. In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas. Shlok 71: “All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.” Shlok 72: “Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.” In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharya’s. Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday. This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul. Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership. The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji. Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders. Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20) “…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8) “Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.” “So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….” “I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.” (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40) The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes. The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas. “….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh) Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham “…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1) So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form. Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104) Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way. In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented. The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma. Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders. He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'. Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka. Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration. Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are. It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62). It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else. Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under their instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself. I would like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer. I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say? 2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj. 3. So did you try to read these books? 4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect. 5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS. 6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples? 7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits. 8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe". 5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya. 6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first. 7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham. 8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu." Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celina12 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hello Friends, I just went through all the posts regarding Lord Swaminarayan. I am basically from South India and have recently joined the BAPS sect of Swaminarayan. According to my opinion, nothing is wrong with BAPS organisation. They follow the teachings of Lord Swaminaryan as laid down, In fact this is the only organisation in the whole world with 775 saints following Ashtang Brahmacharya and they do not touch money. Practising Brahmacharya is not an easy thing for the young ones while living in the society. It is the strength of the guru and divine presence Lord Swaminarayan that is working in BAPS. The guru HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj is an ideal devotee of Lord Swaminarayan, we should think twice before saying anything about such a great Bhakta of Bhagwan. For every bhakt his Bhagwan is sarvopari for him. Because Krishna Bhagwan said in Gita that he is sarvopari, the vaishnavs believe him to be sarvopari. In the same way Swaminarayan Bhagwan has mentioned in the Vachanmrut that he is Sarvopari and Sarva avatari. Look at the work done in society today by BAPS, The New Delhi Akshardham, The mandirs throughout the world, The Satsang Centres, Activities for Youth and Children, and most importantly the Sadhuta (Saintliness) of Pramukh Swami Maharaj, If the work done by them is Sarvopari when compare to any other organisation in the world then whats wrong about their Lord to be Sarvopari. The head of the Sadhu Samaj in India once said that even though I am the head of saints in India but the head of Saintliness is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. What ever activities that are taking place in BAPS is just for the Liberation of the Jivas. Even though Bhagwan Swaminarayan mentioned Krishna Bhagwan in Shikshapatri but in Shloka 101 he says -"Those portion of these Shastras which explain the merits of knowledge of the form of Lord Shri Krishna, of Dharma, of Bhakti and of Vairagya (non-attachment) in highest terms only Shall be treated as taking precedence over all other portions. The sum and substance of all these Shastras is Bhakti of Lord Krishna with Dharma." And in Shlok 203 he says-"I have thus described above in short, general and special Dharmas of all My followers. For further details, they shall refer to other Shastras of My Sampraday" In shlok 203, he dind't mention to refer Gita or Bhagwat, he said Sampraday Scriptures. The Scripture of the Sampraday is Vachanamrut (Discourses of Lord Swaminarayan). And from Shlok 101 he tried to say that we should give importance to the talks related to the Knowledge of the form of Lord Krishna. By Lord Krishna he meant the Lord of the Sampraday which he was himself. And in Vachanmrut he clearly mentions himself to be the Sarvopari Bhagwan. If Lord Swaminarayan and Krishna Bhagwan are same then why would he install Laxmi Narayan and himself in Vadtal. The work of Lord Swaminarayan, the Samadhi Prakran, his talks, his vartan, his Paramhansas, the Ekantik Dharma pravartan, clear concept of Brahman and ParaBrahman, Practical ways of achieving Brahmic State etc and so many other facts show that he is Sarvopari. Like sage Ved Vyas has written the Mahima of Lord Krishna, In the same way his Paramhansas have written the Mahima of Lord Swaminarayan. These are just few points to show that why Swaminarayan followers should believe Lord Swaminarayan to be Sarvopari. 775 saints have not become sadhus just like that, even they have studied scriptures, the vedas, Brahmasutras etc... Also I have seen that many have said BAPS is Vimukh and does whatever it wants to do. I do not agree with these ideas. BAPS is not vimukh, Shastriji Mahraj (3rd Spiritual Successor of Lord Swaminarayan) had to leave vadtal because of Bhagwan Swaminarayan's principle. He tried his best and also had convinced many big heads in Vadtal about the Akshar Purushottam concept. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj gained the Brahmic state from Gunatitand Swami(Akshar Brahman). More over if Acharya's were true successors of Lord Swaminarayan then why was Laxmi Prasad Acharya was removed??? due to his Rajoguni Behaviour and Addictions. And more over many of the Acharyas are not the true family of Maharaj, they have been adopted. When the first Acharya was intiated on Samvat Kartik Sud 11, Their is a Vachanamrut on this date which doesn't show any statement of such intiation that took place on that day. I do not intend to criticize Acharyas but with all due respects to the Acharyas, BAPS is not Vimukh because Akshar Brahman himself has taken up Shreei Mahraj's work in this organisation i.e., Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Out of all the great Spiritual Leaders in India Pramukh Swami has been awarded The Most Influenial personality by Guiness Book Of World records and he really is. As Lord Swaminarayan said In Gadhada I - 27 that he resides in every indriya of his Ekantik Sant, Pramukh Swami is such Ekantik Sant with Lord Swaminarayan Pragat in him (this doesn't make Pramukh Swami God). He is a true discple of Lord Swaminarayan bring many Jivas on the path of Atyantik Kalyan. No offence but Look around the world and try to find one person like Pramukh Swami Maharaj. I just said what ever I felt right after coming into BAPS and learning about the Sampraday. Jai Swaminarayan. Jai Swaminarayan. You should check out my profile on youtube. I put up some videos on BAPS and Lord Swaminarayan. http://youtube.com/profile?user=celinamahek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nav Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Your views will be biased as you have only seen one side. Whereas i have seen both. I dont talk from biased views. First of all If your read the Gunatitanand Swami ni vato. Swami Himself states that the Acharyas shall never be critisised. Those that do critisise shall fall from the Satsang. HAve you read this? If not i will give you a reference so you may read it for yourself. Secondly, All the Acharyas that have been acharyas even todays acharya are of the Dharmvanshi Kul. They are the family of Dharm. So your avgun will do you bad unless you realise for yourself. Not only that but you go on to say that Acharyas have been taken of teh GAdi. Which is true. If you read the Purshottam Parakash, SatsangiJivan, Satsangi Bhushan or Bhakt Chintamani you may relaise for yourself where the truth lays today. You cant just read one scripture and think you know everything. The Acharya's of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened. Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami). The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself. The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family. The Acharya’s role is to: • initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra • initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha • perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples • authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday • act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday. These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas. “My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41) Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas. In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states: “And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship” Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas. In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas. Shlok 71: “All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.” Shlok 72: “Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.” In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharya’s. Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday. This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul. Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership. The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji. Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders. Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20) “…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8) “Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.” “So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….” “I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.” (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40) The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes. The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas. “….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh) Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham “…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1) So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form. Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104) Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way. In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented. The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma. Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders. He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'. Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka. Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration. Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are. It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62). It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else. Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under their instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself. I would like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer. I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say? 2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj. 3. So did you try to read these books? 4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect. 5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS. 6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples? 7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits. 8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe". 5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya. 6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first. 7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham. 8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu." Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all) Jai Swaminarayan, What makes you say that BAPS Satsangis do not read Shikshapatri, Even though Maharaj has written about Acharyas in Shikshapatri and other scriptures, He has said a lot more about the Mahima of Ekantik Sant than about the Acharya. Read Vachanmrut Gadhada II-27, Vadtal-5 and many more in which Maharaj says that he is present in every Indriya of his Ekantik Sant and not only that, if you read Loya-12 in which he expliains about Uttam Nirvikalp Nishchay where he says about the true Mahima of Akshar Brahman. There are so many Vachanmruts in which he says about the Mahima of his Ekantik Sant. NO where in the Vachanmrut has he said that Acharya is the Door to Liberation, Every where in the Vachanamrut, it says that Satpurush is the door to Liberation. Even in Bhakta Chintamani The whole first Prakran is about the Sant Mahima. "Kamadudha, Kalpataru, Paras, Ahintamani Char, Sant saman Eke Nahi mai Man maa karyu vichar" "Eva Sant sada Shubh Mati, Jakt dosh nahi Jema Rati... "Maan Abhiman Nahi Lesh, Eva Sant ne namu hu Shish.... Nishakulanand Swami has said so much mahima of the Sant in many of the Scriptures. No where has it been mentioned so much about Acharya. Bhagatji Maharaj was Gopalanand Swami's Shishya, During his last breath he asked his shishyas to go to Junagad and to the Samagam of Gunatitanad Swami and not of acharya. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj went to Junagad as a Pilgrim and not as an Acharya to do the Samagam of Gunatitanand Swami and attained the Brahmic State. Only a first few Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj, Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj they were very good at the Niyam Dharam. But the other Acharyas couldnt keep up the Niyams and since then the Sadhus became Linient in their Niyams as well. Even I came to the Vadtal Mandir for darshan, I wasn't very happy with the vartan of the Sadhus there. There is a huge difference between thier Vartan and the Vartan of BAPS sadhus. And think twice when you keep saying Vimukh about Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj, Never in their Lives have they broken any Niyam of Shreeji Maharaj. They are paipurna in Sadhuta, Bhakti, Dharma, Vairagya and also the Knowledge about true Maharaj's form. Read Vachanmrut Madhya -9 where Maharaj says that if one understands me as Sarvopari, Sada divya Sakar and Avatari of all Avatars then with this nistha even if one has to leave satsang and live outside Satsang, he will still attain Akshardhaam. All BAPS Satsangis go to Vadtal mandir Including the Guru, HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj because it is the Prasadi Sthaan of Shreeji Maharaj. Pramukh Swami Maharaj, due to his Sadhuta and with respect to Maharaj's words has always respected the Acharyas. Never in their lives did Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj have spoken ill about the Vadtal or Amdavad Gadi. Pramukh Swami has always given the hospitality to his best to the Acharyas when ever they have met. Shastriji Maharaj wasn't an ordinary Sadhu, Gordhan Kothari used to say that "Be hazar Sadhuo maa thi Shastri Yagnapurushdas jevo Stree ane Dhan no tyagi koi nathi". You should be knowing abt Gordhan kothari more than me. Go back to the history, Shastriji Maharaj was explaining abt akshar purushottam to everyone when he was in vadtal. Not only that sitting in vadtal he had akshar purushottam idols installed in the Vadhwan mandir. Staying in Vadtal Shastriji Maharaj could have spread the Upasana of Akshar purushottam. But it came upon to his life, the sadhus in vadtal had lost their minds, they tried many times to Kill Shastriji Maharaj. It was Krishnaji Ada, by whose words he left Vadtal. Even after Leaving from Vadtal, shastriji Maharaj tried many times to join back but only if they accepted the concept of Akshar Purushottam. And then it was Shastriji Maharaj who gave Diksha to Pramukh Swami. Give me a single point why you are calling BAPS to be vimukh. It is the Pure parampara of Akshar Brahman through whom Shreeji Maharaj is working today. Why will you call the BAPS vimukh just because they believe Shreeji Maharaj to be Sarvopari or because of believing Gunatitanand Swami to be Akshar Brahman. Look at how many people have come upon the path of Liberation through BAPS. Every Satsangi of BAPS follows Stree Purush marayada properly, Clear concept of what we should be doing in Satsang. Today if someone asked Whether there is any one like Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Paramhansas alive on earth then there will be only Pramukh Swami Maharaj and his Sadhus to be shown. What is BAPS doing wrong???? They built the Mandirs in Bochasan, Gadhada where it was Shreeji Maharaj's sankalp to sit with his Uttam Bhakta. The Upasana is very clear that we have to become Aksharroop in order sit in Akshardhaam which is mentioned in somany places in even Vachanmrut(Eg Loya 12). We believe that Maharaj is pragat on this earth through his Ekantik Bhakta. Pramukh Swami's Devotion towards Maharaj is so much that Maharaj would always like to reside in him(It doesn't mean Pramukh Swami is god, we never think like that). And where did you hear about BAPS going against the Acharyas or entering into Debate with them. If you are talking about the Swaroop Nishtha of Shreeji Maharaj then Shreeji Maharaj comes first and then Acharya. The belief that Shreeji Maharaj, NarNarayan, Laximi Narayan, Radha Krishna are one would be false because he himself has mentioned that he is Aksharaatit and Sarva Avatari. Even Prahalad knew that "Matrudevo Bhavah, Pitru Devo Bhavah" But when it came to his Bhakti, he never compromised. There is no way that Pramukh Swami would speak ill about Acharyas even in privacy But the Sidhhant that Swaminarayan Bhagwan is Sarvopari and Gunatitanand Swami is Mool Akshar has always been and will be Eternal. Jai Swaminarayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Like I said on the other thread it isn’t about who is mentioned more. We are not saying that Saints are mentioned less. But about how the saints should live and the Agna and Upasna and its Siddhants. Even our Acharyas today do samagam of saints. We don’t worship them like saints but just how Bhagwan Swaminarayan told us to worship the Acharyas. BAPS have completely stopped darshan of an Acharya. Like I stated the references of the Hari Digvijay etc. you should look these up instead of coming on here and stating stuff against me. Truth his you are simply opposing the Sampradays original scriptures and not me. Now you are also talking about the Niyams and dharmas of the Acharya. You shouldn’t be doing this. If you want to talk about the Niyams and dharms of the Acharyas then go and tell the in private just like Gunatitanand Swamis vato states. Also Maharaj states In the Shikshapatri that the good attributes should be taken of the departed and not imbibe the avguns. Maybe if you searched hard enough you can find good saints. Truth is that Bhagwan Swaminarayan in the Vachnamrut also states the rules for the tyagis and also tell His bhakts that all Sadhus are no the same. Have you even been to Bhuj Mandir etc? Also if you lived in Vadtal Mandir , truth is that there are many true saints. But at the end of the day it is where you look. Just like in BAPS saints were fighting over the Gadi of Pramukh Swami in the same way it will exist in other places too. Where did Shrii Maharaj state that sadhus should leave the refuge of the Dharmkul and the Mandirs? BAPS successors have done such. Il leave it up to Bhagwna t odecide what they are. Im sure that Bhagwan is not happy over such. Also you go on about Sarvopari Nishtha. Well truth is that we also belive this way of worship. Shriji Maharaj is Sarva Avtaari!! We don tsay no to this. Not just that but if you look at the Vachnamrut this is clear. Even Vachnamrut antya 38 states so. Also can you tell me when Pramukh Swami has ever met an Acharya? Do you know what would be good? If BAPS would go back under the Vadtal gadi. But this will never happen. Because of the BAPS Upasna in terms of Akshar and Purshottam. As if they were under the refuge of the Dharmkul they do not go against the words of God in that way. For example read the very first Vachnamrut!! Shastriji Maharaj was taken out of the Gadi because he installed the Akshar Purushottam in Vadhvan opposing the wishes of the Sampraday and the Acharya too. As it was against the teachings Bhagwan Swaminarayan. That’s why. If you listen to Hariprasad Swami of Haridham Sokhda, he also states that Pramukh Swami beat him many times and nearly killed by BAOS swamis and he was also chucked out of BAPS. So truth his people spread rumours irrelevant to the truth. You wont believe Hariprasad swami either. LOL. Maybe now you can understand why this was the case for Shastriji Maharaj. We call BAPS vimuks for going against the wishes of Sampraday ni Agna and Upasna of Akshar And purshottam. Also how you place all the murtis of saints of the Sinhasan. Shastriji Maharaj wanted the whole Sampraday to accept his way of teaching whereas truth was that the Sampraday didn’t want to agree to his views by going against the teachings of the original scriptures nor the agna of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. So do you think that we lal bhakts under the Dharmkul banner do not get Moksh? Why do BAPS change the arti? Also the satsangis in our original sampraday follow stri mpurush ni Maryada. You should see for yourselves. Where in the scriptures is it shown that Bhagwan wanted to sit with His uttam Bhagat in Mandirs? Especailly so close to the Mandirs which He Himself built? If this was the case then He wpould have done this Himself. He would have made at least one Mandir! But no. BAPS do court cases into building Mandirs. For example currently in Gadhpur BAPS are doing a case to get some land near the Mandir. This is wrong, Do you even know about this? We don’t say that you don’t have to become Akshar roop. We say the same. Yiu have to disregard MAYA and become Brahm roop. We all follow this too, But what is wrong is the actual Akshar Purshottam Upasna and when BPAS changes arti and scriptures and when they make Snato sit on the sinhasan and how they are not under the refuge of the Dharmkul gadi like the 1st Vachnamrut states. This is probably it really. If you read the Satsangi Bhushan by Vasudevanand Varni, Satsangi Jivan, Niskulanand Kavya, Bhakt Chintamani etc you will cear ystate that Bhagwan after doing murti pratishtha in the Mandirs of Nar Narayan Dev, Laksminarayan \Dve etc HE himself said that HE resides in this murtis and He is them and the yare Him. Do you want the references I can get for you if you like seeing as you have not read this. If you had read for yourself you wouldt state this. He is these Avtaars, he accepts offerings through them and takes bhakts who worship them to Akdhardham. He is the cause of all incarnations but He is His incarnations. He is the Mul Swarup Himself the avtaars are His and He is them. You shouldn’t do khandan and droh of avtaars by saying that they are not them, This is wrong. There should be no compromises in faith, What you class as eternal … you should read the Shastras for yourself and realise for yourself. As with you bias views you will not get far and be far from getting Shriji Maharaj happy. We are not saying don’t have a guru etc. We need santo for sure. Jay Swaminarayan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naazsakhi Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Jai Swaminarayan. I have been with Vadtal Laxminarayan Gadi since I was born. I follow this religion too. I believe that We must not fight arguing about who is wrong and who is right. Also, someone stated that Hariprasad Swami is talking that pramukhswami beat him up.......That is not right. I have listen to H. Swami and He is one of the best Swaminarayan Sant. I recommend other satsangies to listen to his pravachan..........His vaatos are more clear about Vachnamrut..........I personally believe that he is very very true saint of Lord Swaminarayan. I do believe that Pramukhswamiji is also same. Also, H. Swami prays to pramukh swamiji in his daily pooja. I have seen H. Swami doing pooja about more than 15 times. He does not talk about rubbish about anyone. Shriji maharaj ni jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 You followers of such cults are doing vachan droh. Thats that. Fullstop. You do what you like but dont come on here critisisng the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nav Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Do not be surprised by the title, I am a devout hindu and had an opportunity to get to know the swaminarayan sect from closely, as two of my close acquaitance are swaminarayan.I have been to their satsang sabhas, programme etc.I have a high respect for the enormous amount of Good work which the sect is doing and esepcially pramukh swami maharaj but there are couple of philosophical issue which stops me from "converting" to swaminarayan....I am presenting it below : 1) Swaminarayan sect believes that only their god (Lord swaminarayan) is the only God who can give you moksha.i have seen many people who were worshipping usual hindu gods from generations and after convering the "Swaminarayan" you wont find a single hindu god/goddess picture in their home.Isnt this like following christianity or islam.... 2) They say that the "Swaminarayan" mantra is the most powerful shloka in the world, even their book about bhajans (Kirtanvaali) mentions somewhere that the mantra is even superior then Gayatri mantra.... Comeon .... 3) On one side the swaminarayan devotees take pride in hindu heritage but the practices are such that it seems "Swaminarayan" is a whole together different religion and whenever you ask any follower which religion you follow they will say "We are swaminarayan". 4) Swaminaryan saints would only eat if the food is prepared by a "Brahmin"..are you kidding me..which centure are we living in ?. 5) I was recently watching the official DVD of Akshardham temple (Its really a wonderful place ) and all through the DVD they have not shown any video/shots of the "Ganpati" or "Radha krishna" murti...only one line of verbal that the temple also has the murti of so and so god.... I have many other points also..but later...again..I do not have any negative feelings, I have and would always have high respect for the "swaminarayan" religion but its some of these points which are standing as a HUGE wall in front of me.... btw..I have placed a small picture of Pramukh swami" in our temple and i do pray to him along with other "Hnidu gods"... Hello my friend, I read this post of yours and thought to give you some points about Swaminarayan: 1) Swaminarayan is not a separate religion, It belongs to Vedic Hindu religion. 2)Proper Swaminarayan followers who have attained a Staunch faith that, Lord Swaminarayan is the ParaBrahman and source of all incarnations. It is Lord Swaminarayan who has explained that there are 5 Entites: Jivas,Ishwaras,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman, They are never created, they exist since time immemorial(Anadi), except Maya. There are infinite Jivas and infinite Ishwaras. He said that Jivas and Ishwaras are all under Maya since existance. Only two entities remain above Maya i.e., Brahman and ParaBrahman, they have never been in contact with Maya. All Jivas, Ishwaras, Maya and Brahman are all dependent on ParaBrahman but ParaBrahman is all independent. That ParaBahman is Lord Swaminarayan who descended on this earth by his free will. He is not an incarnation of anyone, he himself is the source of incarnation. Realising oneness with Brahman we have to do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman, that is the Basic concept. So if we have the refuge of ParaBrahman purushottam narayan why need to pray to other gods. It is not that we disrespect them, we always bow down to every god and all incarnations but our faith and Pativrata Bhakti is towards Lord Swaminarayan. His abode is Akshardhaam which is above maya. Once a Jiva or Ishwara attaining Brahmic state reaches Akshardhaam, there is no returning for him into Maya of Birth and Death. The followers of Raam Bhagwaan would always talk about Raam Bhagwaan in their pravachans, It doesnt mean that they are insulting other gods. They respect every one but follow their choicest Bhagwaan. Same with Krishna Bhagwaan Disciples. When they do the Katha on Bhagwad or Gita, they will hardly refer to any other god other than Krishna. It is their Bhakti. Similarly the Akshardhaam monument represents the abode of Lord Swaminaryan. Like Krishna Bhagwan resides in Golok and Raam Bhagwaan resides in Vaikunth, Similarly it is Bhagwaan Swaminarayan who resides in Akshardhaam. But still big murtis of RadhaKrishna, Raam-sita etc are installed in the main monument. The whole world will be watching the DVD, it is not that they have insulted Radha Krishna Bhagwaan, its just that they want people to know about Lord Swaminarayan. There are not many people who know much about Swaminarayan, thats why they were just concentrating on him. There cannot be any misbehaviour towards any Avatars in BAPS. It is true that they eat the food cooked by Brahmin just because it is a Strict instruction of Lord Swaminarayan to his Sadhus. It is just that they are maintaining purity by not eating whenever and whatever. It is not that everyone cooks food with purity, Thats why Lord Swaminaryan said to eat the food cooked by Brahmins. They eat food cooked by people other than Brahmins but its a whole different process to cook food for Saints i.e., you have make sure abt the purity, you cannot use direct water when you cook for them and few more things like that. It is out of the Nishta or the conviction they say that they are following Swaminarayan religion. But truly it is a Proper Hindu Religion. Look at niyams, they are not new. Ashtang Brahmacharaya is mentioned in Daksha Smriti, Aarti, thaal, Puja and every thing is just like a Hindu. It is a Hindu religion. Even I have joined BAPS recently, I am basically from South. Its a beautiful Organisation with a Bhagwad Satpurush as its Guru and Swaminarayan Bhagwan as its Choicest god. Any more Questions, feel free to ask. Even I had these doubts, We willtry our best to answer Jai Swaminarayan <!-- / message --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 What you have stated above , most of it is by me. You have simply copied and pasted. Secondly, Joining BAPS isn't somthing to be proud of. You should research on the actual scriptures to realise the Principles of Bhagwan Swaminarayan , what He established and what He requires His devotees to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 There are many things being said in this Forum - particularly about BAPS not following the agna of Shriji Maharaj by having no Acharya or how the santos haven't taken diksha from the Acharya - what you forget is that Shastriji Maharaj took diksha from Acharya Viharilalji maharaj and Yogiji Maharaj took diksha from Shripatiprasadji Maharaj - so you are false there. On top of that, you talk of BAPS not following agna? what about vadtal sanstha? you don't have akshar or the pragat sant which shriji maharaj has spoken about. So vadtal is not following certain agnas either - so focus on yourself before you attack BAPS. if you spent more time doing bhakti instead of attacking other sampradays, you might just get your moksha faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 First of all, when Bhagwan Swaminarayan got His Diksha from Ramanand Swami Raghunathdas, also was a Shishya of Ramanand Swami. This doesn’t mean he was right. Secondly, your Shashtri Swami and Yogi Swami might have got Diksha what about the rest? Not only that but they went against the Acharyas and did their own thing. Which id devoid of Swaminarayan Bhagwans teachings. Anyway should it stop there with the Diksha?? Not according to Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Read Satsangi Jivan and you will find out. We have Pragat saints! ! What on earth are you on about? Do you even know saints like Shriharidas swami, Patitpavan Swami and the hundreds more? You haven’t the foggiest and you come on here stating such. Not just that but where does Shriji Maharaj talk about ‘Akshar’ being in the so called “Gunatit Parampara”, which you believe in? Not just that but when did Shriji Maharaj state that Akshar will remain on the earth in form of a saint etc. Quote me according to the authentic scriptures. By the way if you look at the Vadtal Sanstha it is much better since the Acharya was made ‘Padbrasht’. This can be done according to the Desh Vibhaag Lekh which Shuk Muni wrote in the presence of Shriji Maharaj upon His wishes. Have you even read the Desh Vibhaag lekh? By the way if the individuals (Sadhus) are failing to follow their Dharm then they will suffer like an other human being according to their Karm. They will become ‘Yogbrasht’ as the Vachnamrut states so. You cant leave the refuge of Vadtal or Amdavad Desh Gadi on account of this nor can you take such avgun of them, according to the Satsangi Jivan and such other Shastras. If you do you are vachan drohis and Guru Drohis. Do read the Desh Vibhaag Lekh when you have time. You cant make Bhagwan Happy nor attain Moksh where you can be in His eternal service. Truth is at least they (Vadtal Sadhus) haven’t left the refuge of Laksmi Narayan Dev and Nar Narayan. The corrupt ones have been excommunicated just like the Shikshapatri states. Some are jailed. As this is the path established by Bhagwan Swaminarayan. One day, life, next life or few lives after they will get Moksh. I’m not attacking my friend. I’m just stating according to the Swaminarayan Sampradays authentic Scriptures. Maybe you would realise too like I did, if you read the scriptures as they are. By the way my Bhakti is fine. Don’t you worry. Jai Swaminarayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dharmesh mistry Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 First of all, when Bhagwan Swaminarayan got His Diksha from Ramanand Swami Raghunathdas, also was a Shishya of Ramanand Swami. This doesn’t mean he was right. Secondly, your Shashtri Swami and Yogi Swami might have got Diksha what about the rest? Not only that but they went against the Acharyas and did their own thing. Which id devoid of Swaminarayan Bhagwans teachings. Anyway should it stop there with the Diksha?? Not according to Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Read Satsangi Jivan and you will find out. We have Pragat saints! ! What on earth are you on about? Do you even know saints like Shriharidas swami, Patitpavan Swami and the hundreds more? You haven’t the foggiest and you come on here stating such. Not just that but where does Shriji Maharaj talk about ‘Akshar’ being in the so called “Gunatit Parampara”, which you believe in? Not just that but when did Shriji Maharaj state that Akshar will remain on the earth in form of a saint etc. Quote me according to the authentic scriptures. By the way if you look at the Vadtal Sanstha it is much better since the Acharya was made ‘Padbrasht’. This can be done according to the Desh Vibhaag Lekh which Shuk Muni wrote in the presence of Shriji Maharaj upon His wishes. Have you even read the Desh Vibhaag lekh? By the way if the individuals (Sadhus) are failing to follow their Dharm then they will suffer like an other human being according to their Karm. They will become ‘Yogbrasht’ as the Vachnamrut states so. You cant leave the refuge of Vadtal or Amdavad Desh Gadi on account of this nor can you take such avgun of them, according to the Satsangi Jivan and such other Shastras. If you do you are vachan drohis and Guru Drohis. Do read the Desh Vibhaag Lekh when you have time. You cant make Bhagwan Happy nor attain Moksh where you can be in His eternal service. Truth is at least they (Vadtal Sadhus) haven’t left the refuge of Laksmi Narayan Dev and Nar Narayan. The corrupt ones have been excommunicated just like the Shikshapatri states. Some are jailed. As this is the path established by Bhagwan Swaminarayan. One day, life, next life or few lives after they will get Moksh. I’m not attacking my friend. I’m just stating according to the Swaminarayan Sampradays authentic Scriptures. Maybe you would realise too like I did, if you read the scriptures as they are. By the way my Bhakti is fine. Don’t you worry. Jai Swaminarayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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