Swaminarayan

[dharmesh mistry]

halo

once in a compound of one house a small child was playing, at that time one dog came , so seeing that dog his mother told him to come inside of the house, after a little while child's elder sister told his mother that some sadhu had came to our compound, immediately mother ran and took the boy inside , sister asked why u took brother inside immediately, mother replied, beta they are the sadhus which had taken dikshas from acharyas of swaminarayan sampraday. so they do kukarm with the small child, we should not trust them. if they r of baps sadhus, then its ok.

this is the image of the saadhus worldwide , and the same saadhus had taken dikshas from acharyas. what is the use of such saadhus which spoils name of lord swaminarayan world wide. and see pujya pramukh swami, he is establishing good image of lord swaminaryan sampraday, even he has not taken dikshaas from acharya.

and another point which acharyas u r talking, jo khud bhugarbh me chip jaate hai, ajendraprasad, lakshmiprasad, etc from them they had to take dikshaas.

it is shame to those sadhus, who had taken diksaas from ajendraprasad, kya unka kalyaan hoga, khud ajendraprasad ko police dhund rahi hai

jo acharya apne saadhus ko sambhal nahi sakte, aur kitne saadhu hai gine chune to bhi, to kya karne ka, dekho hamare pramukh swamiji ko there r 785 saadhus, under him, no spot on anyone.

u should first understand, look into ur sampraday, then chat

[dharmesh mistry]

halo

once i had been in satsang sabha of one of the swaminarayan gadi sampradaay, i will not state the name , and the acharya in the sabha told, their saadhus told to their devotees that u go to mosque, u go to church, but u dont go to swaminarayan temples built by baps.

on other side, our respected president dr.a.p.j.abdul kalam whenever anybody meets him he says him to visit delhi akshardhaam

see, hindus and that to of swaminarayan sampradaay are villans, and one muslim who believes in god, says to visit akshardhaam

now u decide who believes in god

abdul kalam k acharyas

[dharmesh mistry]

in sikshapatri it is not written that saadhus had to take dikshas from acharyas in niyams of saadhus, in acharyas niyam it is written that those who come to him then he should give dikshaas,

in gruhast niyam also it is not written that people had to take dikshaas only from achaaryas

any where in any scriptures it is not written "only word"

if u know plz tell me

[dharmesh mistry]

what about viharilalji mahraj, no achary gave him diksha, it was aksharbrahm gunatitanand swami who gave him diksha

now willl u follow that acharya or not

answer my only one question

[Guest]

HAhaha you story of the boy and Sadhus is very funny. Is that what happened to you? What a silly mother. Taking the boy away from Swaminarayan Bhagwans Sadhus. And what Avguns you take.

There today exist sadus that have direct contacts with Bhagwan within the Sampraday that Shriji Maharaj Himself created. But you look for Avguns only hence this is all you will find. You cannot find any good at all. That is a big devoid in your bhakti.

Secondly Ajendraprasad isn’t under the Swaminarayan Sampraday. He has been made padbrasth. Nor is he hiding from police. He lives somewhat kilometres away from Vadtal. Nor does He have anything to do with the Vadtal Gadi anymore. He is no longer an Acharya. Now If you read the Original Swaminarayan scriptures Shriji Mahraj Himself states that if the Acharya doesn’t follow his dharmas then he should be taken off the Gadi and another from the Dharmkul should be placed there instead. So you are wrong again. This has happened. It is not devoid of the Swaminarayan Sampraday or Shriji Maharaj as this can be clearly seen with the Desh Vibhaag lekh which Shriji Maharaj Himself stated.

Seems like you do not want to read the authentic scriptures nor do you want to follow Shriji Maharajs words. As Maharaj states clearly that a satsangi should always have refuge under the Dharmvanshi Acharyas no matter what. Never can you leave it.

Also you state Laksmi Prasadji Maharaj. Nothing was ever done wrong by him. You do ninda of the acharyas once again and you pay no attention to Gunatitanand Swamis vato where he states one should not do ninda of the Dharmvanshi acharyas. You have done this before as well. In this Sampraday if one misbehaves and doesn’t do as his dharmas that Shriji Maharaj stated will suffer in this world and the next.

Dr Swami and other swamis in BAPS are already fighting as who should be the next Pramukh Swami. So how can you state that there is no spot? Not just that but Haridham Sokhda broke away form BAPS and he was beaten loads (Hariprasad Swami) by BAPS Sodus’s. Don’t think that you know everything.

Its true as Shriji Maharaj has stated that if the murti pratishtha of a murti in Mandir hasn’t been carried out by the Dharmvanshi Acharya, then that murti is not worthy to be worshipped. So what’s the point of coming to a BAPS Mandir? Not just that but BAPS are vimukhs. So that makes it even worse. By the way Abdul Kalam was a great man, unfortunately he is no longer the president. Does Abdul Kalam know about how BAPS have changed the artis, Shlokas and scriptures? He just sees the outside, what about how its created and what it consist of? I would rather go to a church. As at least the teachings are original as opposed to man made ones and edited scriptures of the original orthodox authentic Sampraday of Shriji Maharaj.

Yes in the scriptures it is clearly written that only Acharyas give Diksha. Please please read Satsangi Jivan. Also a Shikshapatri Shloka also states that for further expansion of these DHARMAS PLEAS REFER TO THE SCRIPTIRES OF MY SAMPRADAY.

This clearly shows that as a BAPS follower you are clearly not reading the authentic Shastras. Read the Satsangi Jivan by Sadguru Shatanand Swami which is the Dharm Shastra of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. How foolish of you to state such.

You silly fool. Who told you Viharilalji Acharya was given Diksha by Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami? Show me the reference to a scripture. As a saint doesn’t give Diksha to the Acharya ever. No acharya gives any Acharya Diksha, They are passed down the Ashtakshar Mantra. If the Acharya goes to Akshardhaam early then the acharya from the other Desh gives the Mantra. So you are wrong. Yes Sadguru Gunaitanand swami was there, but so were many more. That doesn’t mean they gave the Diksha lol. Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj came on the throne on 12 Aug 1879. Don’t you understand that even Gunatitanand Swami understood the mahima of the Acharyas. He even states so in His vatos. The Acharyas also understood the mahima of the great saints as well. When Bhagwan decided to go Akshardham He clearly stated that He has established Murti, Shastrta Acharya and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">santos</st1:place></st1:City> and He will always live within these four. You can’t have one without the other. This is impossible for the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

Also a tyaagi sant can never be an acharya ever. Read the Satsangi Jivan all 5 bhaags and also grantsh like Harililamrut, Haricharitramrut sagar, Nishkulanand Swami etc before coming out with such remarks. We can clearly see how illiterate you are when it comes to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Siddhants.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[JaiSrinivasa]

Jai Sita Rama

 

I have a few questions that need answering

 

1) Where is the evidence that Dr Swami etc.... are fighting over succership of Sri Pramukh swami.???? And by the way who is going to be next leader of BAPS

 

2) Has Pramukh swami (head of baps) or PurushotamPriyadasji (Head of Maninagar Sansthan) ever met or bumped into the Acharyas? I know Pramukh swami goes for Dharshan at the old temples, but he never seems to go to Vadtal or Ahmedabad temples.

 

3) What mantra do the NaraNarayan/LakshmiNarayan Gadi sampradaya chant. I know the BAPS sanstha chant 'Swaminarayan' and the Maninagar sanstha chant 'swaminarayanBapa Swamibapa'????? Corrent my ignorance but the shikshapatri says that devotees should chant the 8-sylable mantra (Ashtakshar) which is either refers to SriKrishnaSharanmm or NamoNarayanaya

[Guest]

 

Jai Sita Rama

 

I have a few questions that need answering

 

1) Where is the evidence that Dr Swami etc.... are fighting over succership of Sri Pramukh swami.???? And by the way who is going to be next leader of BAPS

 

2) Has Pramukh swami (head of baps) or PurushotamPriyadasji (Head of Maninagar Sansthan) ever met or bumped into the Acharyas? I know Pramukh swami goes for Dharshan at the old temples, but he never seems to go to Vadtal or Ahmedabad temples.

 

3) What mantra do the NaraNarayan/LakshmiNarayan Gadi sampradaya chant. I know the BAPS sanstha chant 'Swaminarayan' and the Maninagar sanstha chant 'swaminarayanBapa Swamibapa'????? Corrent my ignorance but the shikshapatri says that devotees should chant the 8-sylable mantra (Ashtakshar) which is either refers to SriKrishnaSharanmm or NamoNarayanaya

 

 

1) The evidence of fighting over successor ship has been witnessed by many. One is my very own uncle who lives in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Baroda</st1:place></st1:City>. If you want to go and see him ask me, I will give you the address. He is BAPS follower and is very upset.

2) The saints you have mentioned may have bumped into the Acharyas. I know for a fact when Maninagar sanstha Sadhu wanted to take a picture with an Acharya. But it was refused at the time. Also if Pramukh Swami goes to do darshan of the old prasadi Mandirs, they are too under Vadtal and Amdavad desh Mandirs. Read the Satsangi Jivan and you will come to know.

3) The original Sampraday Bhakts of Amdavad and Vadtal chant the ‘Swaminarayan’ Mahamantra. And if they have got Diksha form the Acharyas (which Bhagwan Swaminarayan established as can be seen in the scriptures) they do daily rounds on their mala with the Ashtakashr Krishna Mantra (Shri Krishna Tvaam Gatir Mamah which Ramanand Swami got (when initiated in dream) from Ramanuj Acharya, and Ramanand Swami gave to Dharmdev and Bhaktidevi and Prayag Shetra, And then this was given to Swaminarayan Bhagwan when he received the Gadi by Ramanand Swami. Bhagwan then gave these mantras to the Acharyas (Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj and Raghuvirji Maharaj in Vadtal). These mantras are then given to mumukshu who then become (Dvija-twice born). I have received mine a few years back. It’s all in the original orthodox scriptures. Do take some time out to read them.

m_bhudia@hotmail.com

[JaiSrinivasa]

Jai Sita Rama, thanks you for your reply Das ka Das.

 

I was originally attracted to swaminarayn sampradaya but when i became more attracted to the Original Sampradya. Am i talking about Baps, NaraNarayan Gadi, Vadtal??? NO im refering to the Original Srivaishnav Ramanuja sampradya who Ramand swami supposdely got diksha from.

 

So many questions come to mind regarding this beleif that Ramand got diksha from Srimath Ramanuja acharaya.

 

The most obvious one is about this mantra 'Sri KrishnaTvan Gatir Mamah'. No where is this taught by Ramanuja or his succers or Sampradaya. The ramanuj sampradaya has three mantra 'Ashakshar' 'Dvayam' and 'charma' none of which are the 'Sri Krishna tvam Gatir Mamah mantra. In the ramanuja sampradaya even up to today these 3 mantras are chanted.

 

Also if Ramand wanted diksha why did he not approach many of the successors of Ramanuja in places like Kanchipuram and Srirangam???

 

Also if Swaminarayan sampradaya comes from Ramanujacharaya why dont Swaminarayn devotees, utter the 3 mantra sof Sri-sampraday, or chant the verses of the Alvars (divya Prabandanam) etc...which Ramanuja spent his life preaching.

 

If Sahajanada swami was god incarnate then why didnt Sri Ramanuj swami, appear to all his successors and followes accross India and tell them to go to Gujarat and worship the 'Sarva Avatari Bhagavan'???

 

Also why does this philosophy of 'Akshardham' and Akshar-rup not appear in Bhagavatam, Ramanyan, Gita and other bonafide Vedic scriptures?

 

Finally (and these question particulary goes to BAPs and Maninagar followers who think swaminarayan is higher then Krishna), what happened to all those great Vaishnavs of past like SriVallabh, SriRamanuj, Nammalvar, Madhvacharaya, who never uttered the name swaminarayan? Did they not get Moksha? When if swaminarayan is higher then Krishna then why does Krishna in the Gita unabigiously and clearly say that he is God supreme and can give salvation?

[JaiSrinivasa]

Jai Sita Rama

 

By the way what is going one with the Maninagar Sanstha??? In this forum there is a lot of Vadtal/Ahemedabad sanstha vs BAPS debate. But it seems to me that Maninagar (Swaminarayan Gadi Santhsa) have really moved away from the original group. This group was spilt by a Sadhu from NaraNarayan Desh called MuktaJivan Swami (A.k.a JivanPran Bapa), similar to Shastriji who spilt from Vadtal. This sanstha trace their origins back to Gopalanand swami and have two very Random beleifs. Firstly they beleif that Swaminarayan was reborn as 'Abjibapa' in kutch. And by the way this 'Abjibapa' following is not just by the Maninagar sanstha, but is also held by another smaller sanstha based in Vasna. Secondly they beleive that Muktajivan Bapa is the physical embodiment on the 'Swaminarayan Gadi'.

 

What i also find interesting about this group is that they have complety seemed to have forgotten about Lord Krishna who swaminarayan instructs his devotees to worship. While even BAPS temples have RadhaKrishna and LakshmiNarayan deities. The Maninagar sanstha does not install any RadhaKrishna, NaraNarayan Dev, LaksmiNarayan etc...

[Guest]

 

My Dandvat Pranams to you. Yes that Uddhav Sampraday is today known as the Swaminarayan Sampraday. If you read the Satsangi Jivan you will come to know. That Ramanand Swami got Diksha from Shri Ramanuj Acharya in ShriRangKshetra.

Who says that these mantras are the only Astakshar Mantra? If you read the Bhagvat there are more than one Astakshar Mantra. This mantra was given by Shri Ramanuj Acharya Himself. Ramanand Swami was the incarnation of Shri Uddhavji. It’s about Mahima and faith. If you don’t accept such faith then that’s fine by me, do as you please. But your argument holds no water.

What is chanted today in the other Ramanuj Sampradays is unrelated to the Swaminarayan Sampraday. But what occurred within the Swaminarayan Sampraday with Ramanand Swami is authentic.

If you want Moksh why do you pray to Bhagvan? If you want water why would you drink deep into the ground to quench your thirst when you can get it from a tap? If Uddhavji (Ramanand Swami) got Diksha within a dream, this isn’t unusual. Maybe Ramanand Swami didn’t want to append Himself as a disciple to the Kanchipuram or Srirangam successors. He himself became a successor or Ramanuj Acharya. Do you find that hard to believe or do your inner enemies not allow you o want such?

We chant our mantra given by Bhagvan Himself which is fit for Kaliyug and enough to attain Him with. We follow the Ramanuj propounded Vedantic philosophy known as Visistadvaita-vada which Swaminarayan supplemented with. The hymns of the alvars by Saints such as Nathmuni are still recited but in different mannerisms. We have our very own passionate hymns and kirtans. These hymns have been translated and created into Gujrati and Sanskrit and many more Kirtans, Shlokas and Hymns are also added. We believe Ramanuj as the Avtaar of Anant. This Anant reincarnated as Rampratapji the older brother of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Swaminarayan Bhagwan and His divine saints who were also incarnatiosn of Rishis spent their lives preaching holy verses and many other scriptures of the Sampraday. Many of these Saints were great Rishis like Vibhandak, Likhit, Shuk Muni, Mareech and others. Sainst from all over <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> came. Many were Hindi speaking like Sachidanand Swami.

Here is our Guru Linage:

Shri Narayan Bhagwan (1)

Shri Maha Laxmi (2)

Acharya Shri Vishvaksen Swami(3)

Acharya Shri Namalvar Swami(4)

Acharya Shri Nathamuni Swami(5)

Acharya Shri Padmanetra Swami(6)

Acharya Shri Ramamishra Swami(7)

Acharya Shri Yamunacharya Swami(8)

Acharya Shri Mahapurna Swami(9)

Acharya Shri Ramanujacharya Swami(10)

Acharya Shri Ramanand Swami (11)

Bhagwan Swaminarayan (12)

Split into two regions-South <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> (Vadtal Laksminarayan Desh) and <st1:place w:st="on">North India</st1:place> (Amdavad Nar Narayan Desh)

Amdavad Desh:

(13) Acharya Shri Ayodhyaprasadji

(14) Acharya Shri Keshavprasadji

(15) Acharya Shri Purshottamprasadji

(16) Acharya Shri Vasudevprasadji

(17) Acharya Shri Devendraprasadji

(18) Acharya Shri Tejendraprasadji

(19) Acharya Shri koshalendra prasadji (current)

Vadtal Desh:

(13) Acharya Shri Raghuvirji

(14) Acharya Shri Bhagvatprasadji

(15) Acharya Shri Viharilalji

(16) Acharya Shri Laxmiprasadji

(17) Acharya Shri Shripatiprasadji

(18) Acharya Shri Anandprasadji

(19) Acharya Shri Narendraprasadji

(20) Acharya Shri Ajendraprasadji

(21) Acharya Shri Rakesh Prashadi (current)

Lord Himself has promised that He comes whenever evil prevails to protect his saints and followers and to re establish faith and morality upon earth.

The mention of Akshardham comes in many scriptures but are not realised. Where is Golok mentioned in the Gita or Bhagavat? Can you tell me?

Just because they may not be in some scriptures does not mean they do not exist. Also, Lord Swaminarayan Himself mentions Vaikunth, Golok and Akshardham are abodes of God where people who get salvation go. Once there, there is no falling back into the cycle of rebirths.

Vasudev Mahatmyam in Skand Puran ...

Aksharbrahm, akshar param pad ...Adhyay 14 Shloka 17

Akshardham ...Adhyay 17 Shlok 34

God Himself says about Akshardham and he lives in all Vaikunth, Golok and Akshardham... ad 18 shl 6

Adhyay 19 shl.. Akshardham is where Supreme lord Krushna Is

Adhyay 24 shl 2.. when there was nothing but Lord supreme in Akshardham

Check them out for yourselves people. This is the same Akshardham that Lord Swaminarayan mentions. He states that He lives there, and his followers attain this abode.

Also when you are talking about “Akshar-rup”, This means “Brahm-Rup”.

In the Vishvaksen Samitah Lord Vishwaksen says:

II Bhumyam krutaavataroham sarvannataam jaganmaham

Praapishyaami vaikuntham Sahajanand Namataha II

This Verse states that :

Among all parts of the universe I take birth on Earth, I shall adore Vaikunth adopting the name Sahajanand. Such scriptures prove Lord Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) as the vedic acceptance of incarnated Suprememe Reality.

The full name Shajanand is given by Lord Vishvaksen. The Brahmapurana also states such: " Kalouswami Vrushatmaja". That in Kaliyug "i" as in Lord supreme will come as 'Swami' son of Dharm.

 

 

 

<HR align=center width="100%" color=#b5b5b5 noShade SIZE=1>

 

<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Mayaa krushnen nihataha sa arjunen raneshu yeh

pravartyishyantyasuraste tvadharm yada ...42

dharmdevatda murto NAR NARAYANATMANA

pravruteppi kalou Brahman! bhutvaham samago dvijah ...43

muni shaapanuttaam praptam sarshi janakmatmanah

taato vitta gurubhyo ham saddharm sthaapaynaj ...44

Adhyay 18 Sholkas: 42,43,44

Lord VAsudev (who is Swaminarayan) in Akshardham Says to Narad:

I Nar NArayan will be born to Dharm And Murtidevi (Bhakti) in Kaliyug. In a family who is saamvedi Brahmin. I will be born using a nimitt of a muni's curse (durvasa). As a guru i Myself will establish decorum and faith (dharm) on the earth.

Swaminarayan Bhagwan isn’t higher than Himself. LOL. Swaminarayan Bhagwan is Shri Krishna and Shri Krishna is Him, Shri Raam is Him and He is Shri Raam. Same goes for all these avtaars.

To state that Shri Krishna is lower or Shri Raam is lower is a huge act of foolishness by BAPS and Maninagar Sanstha. This is Vachan droh and guru Droh!! Bhagwan doesn’t accept such Bhakti. All the Avtaars are the Swarups of Swaminarayan Bhagwan!! I see them all in my Ishtadev!!

By the was the Sadhu who fell away from the Original Amdavad Gadi and established Maninagar (muktajivan das) is now a Ghost. He is a Brahmrakshas!! I have the Audio proof s well as know the people he has possessed. He was exorcised in Sarangpur Kasthbhanajan Hanumanji Mandir! This Mandir is where Hanumanji was consecrated by Sadguru Gopalanand Swami (Shishya of Bhagwan Swaminarayan). He states clearly that he did what he did to become Bhagvan and also had the help of a Kaal Bhairav (black art) to show miracles so people would follow him and he put vashikaran mantras in water so those who drank this would become his. He learnt this from a Brahmin from Jungadh called Meghji, that he is now suffering and all those in the Swaminarayan Sampraday who do not take the refuge of the Dharmvansh under the two Gadi’s established (Amdavad and Vadtal) by Bhagwan Swaminarayan will too suffer like Him... If you have MSN and would like to hear this clip then please pvt me (its in gujrati).

Lastly Abji Bapa was a Mukt sent by Bhagwan. He Himself didn’t state anywhere that he was Bhagvan Himself. His hand written letter confirms this. It can be seen at Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj under Nar Narayan Dev Gadi. No Mukt or baddha human being should ever be put on par with Bhagwan. That is a sin. The Ramanuj Bhashya too confirms this.

Maninagar are Bogus. BAPS do some things still. But Maninagar totally differ from the principles of Bhagvan Swaminarayan. Hence they will suffer great distress. Both are Vimukhs. Moksh does not lay here for sure. It can be clearly seen through the authentic scriptures such as Satsangi Jivan, Sikshapatri, Nishkulanand Kavya, Harililamrut etc.

Jai Swaminarayan.

[JaiSrinivasa]

Jai SiyaRama

 

Thank you for your reply, it seem to me that the Original sampradaya nd the other sansthas differ in their view of Krishna Bhagavan, Sarvaroopi etc. u must understand that i am not in Swaminarayan sampradaya and nor are my family and my understanding of Swaminarayan has come largely from friends i have who are BAPS. It seems that the Vadtal/Ahmedabad Gadi is very similar to other Vaishnav sampradays in regard to worshiping Lord Krishna and this is clearly evident with murthies of Krishna-Radha, Lakshmi etc placed on the same Sinhasan as Swaminarayan in Mandirs. In fact have a lot of respect for Acharayas of Ahmedabad and Vadtal as they seem to be very humble and simple men. I do find the maninagar leader rather odd in that he accepts panchamurt bath which is unknown anywhere in our Hindu religion.

 

I am not suprised that this Muktajivan das is a Ghost. So let me get thus straight, he has possesed people after his death? How do we know that it was his spirit that possesed people????

 

Also i wanted to ask you, what is the relationship with the Swaminarayan-Gurukul organisation and the Acharaya-Sansthas? They don't appear to preach a different philosophy to the original sanstha but many their leaders Shastriji Dharmajivandasji swami is often called 'guru'? I beleive he came from Vadtal gadi and started his Gurukul organisation. Did he leave Vadtal in the same way as Sadhu Yagnapurushdas did after a disagreement with Acharyaji or did he do it upon the 'Agna' of Acharayaji???

 

Final question which i am curious about regards the Murthi of Sita Rama in original Swaminarayan temples. Sahajanada swami was born near Ayhodya, the sampradaya celebrates RamaJanma utsav and worships Hanumanji, but why is it that with exception to Bhuj mandir their are no Sita-Rama murthies in the main temples. There so many other forms of God like Baldev-Revti, KrishnaRadha, LakshmiNarayan, NarNarayan, UmaMaheshwar etc...but no SitaRama? Why is this?

[Guest]

Yes, Muktjivan has possessed people. He is currently serving for his bad deeds as a Brahm Rakshas in Sarangpur where the Hanumanji Mandir is.

You mean Swaminarayan Gurukul Rajkot? Shastri Dharmjivan swami was a good saint. They were at that time not under the refuge of the Dharmvansh like prescribed by Bhagwan. However now they have come under the Vadtal Gadi as hey should be. But I am not too familiar with what they do in terms of preaching. Im sure it cannot be a philosophy like BAPS and Maninagar. I am not sure on what account they left Vadtal. I shall find out.

The acharayas are the Dharm guru’s. Its saints that guide us to Moksh. Sita Ram in Bhuj is only worshipped as this murti was actually worshipped by Ramanand Swami at the house of a Bhakt in Bhuj. Their descendents decided to give these murtis to Bhuj Mandir. That’s why Bhuj Mandir has these murti’s. Is hall tell you the story of why there is no Raam Murtis below:

 

 

 

WHY NO RAM MURTI

 

From Dhoraji Shriji Maharaj went to Mangrol and stayed at the Ram Mandir which Shri Ramanand swami had constructed. Here he celebrated the Annkut utsav and the Sadhus that lived here were Ragunathdas das, Jankidas, Gopidas, Shitaldas. They started giving Prasad to the ladies. Shriji Maharaj clearly said no as it was not a tyagis (renunciates) duty to do such. Therefore the older Sadhus clashed with him and got Shriji Maharaj and other bhakts cast out of the Mandir. The Murtis of Radha and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> which Ramanand Swami had given Maharaj to worship in His puja, had also been kept by these Sadhus.

Shriji Maharaj moved on and sat next to the ocean under the Tamarind and Banyan trees. The Murtis of Shri Radha Krishna came following Him through the air and sat near him! The other Sadhus such as Ragunathdas had followed the Murtis and came to where Shriji Maharaj was sitting in an assembly; they flared up in anger upon seeing such.

According to the will of Shriji Maharaj the news got to the King of Mangrol. The king decided that something should be done as it wasn’t right that this should happen after Ramanand Swami had departed. He came to a conclusion that the Ram Mandir in Mangrol went under the guidance of Shitaldas, the Ram Mandir in Bhuj went to Jankidas, the Ram Mandir near Aakasheths Kuvo went to Gopidas and the Ram Mandir in Amdavad situated near the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Raipur</st1:City></st1:place> gate went to Ragunathdas.

All the rest of the Hari Mandirs, Sadavrats, land and money and the Murtis of Krishna remained under the guidance of Shriji Maharaj. According to Ramanand Swami, it was all meant to be under the guidance of Shriji Maharaj. However, after his departure to Akshardham, this occurred. It was agreed that Shriji Maharaj was expected to build His own Mandirs and install the Murtis of Radha Krishna only and never the Murtis of Ramchandraji.

The rest of the four Sadhus who became vimukhs were to never install Murtis of Radha Krishna. Shamji Luhaar signed this agreement on behalf of Shitaldas and Jankidas. Chaturdas Nagre of Amdavad signed the agreement on behalf of Ragunathdas. Govardhanhai Sheth of Mangrol signed the agreement on behalf of Shriji Maharaj. This is the reason why Shriji Maharaj has never installed the murtis of Ramchandraji Bhagwan.

Shriji Maharaj accepted the decision and told the other Sadhus to look after their murtis and still change their ways and follow the rules of the tyagis. These were the words of Him whose murtis the vimukhs were fighting over in the first place. Yet it can be seen in the history of this sampraday that they did not take note of the words of the cause of all incarnations- Sarvavtaari Purna Purushottam Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself!

Shriji Maharaj Himself has stated that one should not go beyond their word or oath, this can be seen in an incident within the Harililamrut where He promises the Haribhakts of Surat that he would mark the festival their, but the Haribhakts of Gadhpur tried to make Him change His mind.

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest]

Those who clashed with Maharaj then broke away and they didnt last long. Their mandir today have no linage of Acharyas nor saints and are worshipped by Pujaris. Next time you do go, please do go and visit these mandirs. The Aaharyas of both Gadis and also the sadhus of teh Sampraday go for darshan regularly as they were mandirs of Prasadi.

 

Shri Krishna is Shri Raam and Shri aam is Shri Krishna. They are Swaminarayan Bhagwan. The Sampradays grus and fllowers as per wish of Swaminarayan Bhagwan also read Shastras liek Ramayan and also carry out fast and celebrate Shri Ram Navmi. Hanumanji Maharaj is also the Kuldev of the Satsangis.

 

So its not like they dont want to worship. But as the leela is shown above, the followers abide to this as per agna of Mahraj.

[JaiSrinivasa]

Jai Sri Rama

 

Thank you very much it is a nice explaination. I was well aware that Sita Rama is anknowledged very highly in the sampraday hence RamaNavmi, Hanuman Puja etc... but was curious as to the absence of deities in the major temples. It is very nice to here about the early history of the sect, in most books and articles much is not written on these early days of the sect.

 

I know that Shajanand swami worked in a similar way in Junagadh mandir, here he installed UmaMaheshwar in one the main Shrines because he wanted to avoid conflict with the SHiva Bhaktas who dominated the Girnar-Junagadh.

 

I have another question for you DasKadas. I hope you dont mind me asking so many, questions, its just that i have a deep facination and curiosity with the history and politics of Swaminarayan Sect (even though my own beleifs differ). My question cocerns the depiction of Swaminarayan in his murthies. All the Hindu Gods are depiced in different ways with different Hand gestures (Mudras), different colours, weapons etc... These details are all given in scriptures so when Sthapathis make Murthies they know how Vishnu needs to be carved, how Ganesh should be made etc... I Want to know that Swaminarayan is depicted a particular way as having Abhaya Mudra in one hand and holding a cloth in another hand (just as Vishnu holds Shank Chakra and Shiva hold Trisul-Damru). What is the symbolism of this form? And who decided that swaminarayan murthies should be made like this? Also did Swaminarayan himself decided to install his parents (Dharmadev and BhaktiMata) in temples?

[Guest]

Lord Swaminarayan with Abhay mudra shows He protects His bhakts at all times from trivid taap, fear of death, Kaal and Maya. Varad Mudra (also has other names) depicts Him blessing His Bhakts. The mudras of Dvibhuj form of Purna Purushottam can also be read about in the Vasudev Mahatmyam in the Vishnu Khand of Skand Puran. From Adhyay 25 onwards or so. Please do have a look when you are able to.

Adhyay 51 in Satsangi Jivan:

Nar Narayan said to Hari “go with Lakshmi to Vaikunth”. They told <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> “go to Golok and live there”. They told Vasudev to go to Shvetdvip and Sankarshan to live in Pataal and keep this Prithvi on His head. They told Pradyumna to go live in Lokalok Parvat and look after the universe. They told Aniruddh to live inside Vairaj Purush in Chaitanya Swarup stithi. After saying this they themselves went to Badrik Ashram. Dharmdev and Bhakti (Murti) went to Vishnupur.

The Sankadiks after hearing the leela of Nar Narayan Bhagwan from Dharmdev went to the Mandir of Vasudev in Shvetdvip. Then from the curse of Durvasa in the manvantar of Chakshush, Nar Narayan Dev went back into Akshardham as the Prithvi was destroyed.

Once Brahmaji recreated everything that was destroyed, Dharmdev and Murti meditated for 12 years. Bhagwan came to them and blessed them by saying that He will be born to them and protect the saints. After some time Nar Narayan Bhagwan was born to them in Varnivesh form and 16 years of age in the Satyug of Vaivasvat Manvantar.

All the Devas, Rishis, and more came to the darshan of Bhagwan. They made a Hindolo (swing) for them to sit on. Bhagwan Nar Narayan then said he would like to go to Badrik Ashram. So Dharmdev said that he would to like to go again. So both parents went with Nar Narayan to Badrik Ashram. Through the agna of Nar Narayan Bhagwan both parents built an Ashram called Dev Prayag where Ganga meets <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Alaknanda</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">River</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>.

Then after Shri Krishna’s incarnation adharm had prevailed. Lord decided to come to the banks of Sabarmati. At that time Lakshmi came to know about this whilst in the service of Bhagwan. So she told Bhadrakali “you are very dear to the Lord, make a big city on the banks of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Sabarmati</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">River</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> where all four races of humans could live together as in that village Bhagwan and His parents would come to live there”. So she made a big city there and called t Shripur or Shrinagar (also named Karnavati which is today in present day <st1:place w:st="on">Gujarat</st1:place> and named Ahmedabad).

After that Dharmdev and Narayan came to live there on the banks of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Sabarmati</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">River</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>. But people could not have their darshan with Charm Chakshu (physical human eyes). After meditation they went back to Badrikashram where the whole assembly was cursed by Durvasa. Swaminarayan Bhagwan was thus born and Dharmdev and Murti (Bhakti) was born as His parents. All the Rishis and Mukts were to reborn to liberate many other souls.

Dharm Dev and Bhakti Mata after leaving their bodies stayed in their divine forms with Shriji Maharaj at all times. When He performed austerities in Pulah Ashram (Muktinath) they stood by Him for Darshan many times. Maharaj resides where Dharm and Bhakti reside.

 

Hence Bhagwan Swaminarayan had told the first Acharya Shri Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj to consecrate the Murtis of Dharm and Bhakti in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ahmadabad</st1:place></st1:City> in the future, as they would look after His bhakts and people could have their darshan in the form of Murti’s. They would fulfil the good desires of the bhakts.

 

My dandavt Pranams at your feet,

Jai Swaminarayan

[naazsakhi]

Many many thanks and pranaams to das ka das.

[Guest]

Anytime my friend.

[PureIndian]

Hello All, I am not a Swaminaryan follower myself, but I would like to put a few questions to the Swaminaryan Experts of this board.

 

Ok here goes....

 

Did Lord Hanuman protect Bhagwan Swaminaryan against demons during his time on earth?

 

In the Shikshaputri, it states that those of a Lower Caste should not put a Tilak, only a Chandlo. Is this so that people can identify lower castes? Doesn't the Swaminaryan faith beleive in equality?

 

Why are the majority of Swaminaryan followers....Patel? Is this because of the BAPS Movememnt where by Pramukh himself is a Patel?

 

Do Acharaya of the Original Sampraday visit BAPS Mandirs and vise versa?

 

Why does the BAPS sect feel the need to build mandirs in every city, shouldn't money be spent where its needed like charitiy causes in India?

[Guest]

Jay Swaminarayan:

1) Yes Swaminarayan Bhagwan was protected by Hanumanji.

2) Swaminarayan Bhagwan and its faith definitely believe in equality, if you come to a Swaminarayan Mandir in the Original Sampraday you can see this for yourself. Swaminarayan Bhagwan ate at the house of a Vaghri, which in them days he used to eat dogs. This is what this community did. Maharaj ate yoghurt at his house. If it wasn’t the case God would not have done this, many other divine acts of His too prove this fact. Secondly the Sikshapatri you may be reading has not been translated carefully. Let me translate the actual Sanskrit text:

Sat Shudraha Krushna Bhaktaa Ye, Taistu Maal Urdhva Pundrake, Dvij Jati Vaddharaniye, Nij Dharmai Sanstithey .. Shloka 44.

All My Shudra followers who are he Bhakts of Shri Krishna should like the Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas should adorn themselves with the Urdhvapundra Tilak and Tulsi Kanthi around their neck.

3) The Majority of the followers are not Patel. Maybe the ones where you live are but if you go India you will come to see that there are many Brahmins, Kshatriyas and even Shudras. Patel is just a surname. Patels fall under the Vaishyas. Its true that abroad in UK and USA the majorities are Patel. This is simply because of the highly migrated Patels in the past. But in reality you will see many others in India.

By the way Pramukh Swami has nothing to do with the Original Sampraday Swaminarayan Bhagwan created. The original authentic orthodox Sampraday is under Nar Narayan dev and Laksmi Narayan Dev Diocese.

4) BAPS are excommunicated from the Original teachings of Lord Swaminarayan. They are doing what they feel is right. They are not in accordance with the scriptures of the Orthodox doctrine at all according to Bhagwaan Swaminarayan. Please do more research of your own to understand this.

[PureIndian]

Thanks for the promt reply and answering those Questions.

 

I am fully aware that the Sampraday is the REAL/LEGIT sect of Swaminarayan, infact my local Swaminaryan mandir in the UK is that of the Swaminaryan Sampraday headed by Acharya Shri Koshalendraprasadji Maharaj and I beleive his son is following in the footsteps as well.

[Guest]

anytime bhakt.My humble pranaams at your feet.

[naazsakhi]

Thanks

[celina12]

 

Jai Sita Rama

 

I have a few questions that need answering

 

1) Where is the evidence that Dr Swami etc.... are fighting over succership of Sri Pramukh swami.???? And by the way who is going to be next leader of BAPS

 

 

Whoever they elect, like it's been done since BAPS's beginning. And no, there is no infighting going on in BAPS that's the shree swaminarayan sampradaya.

[celina12]

 

Hello All, I am not a Swaminaryan follower myself, but I would like to put a few questions to the Swaminaryan Experts of this board.

 

Ok here goes....

 

Did Lord Hanuman protect Bhagwan Swaminaryan against demons during his time on earth?

 

In the Shikshaputri, it states that those of a Lower Caste should not put a Tilak, only a Chandlo. Is this so that people can identify lower castes? Doesn't the Swaminaryan faith beleive in equality?

 

Why are the majority of Swaminaryan followers....Patel? Is this because of the BAPS Movememnt where by Pramukh himself is a Patel?

 

Do Acharaya of the Original Sampraday visit BAPS Mandirs and vise versa?

 

Why does the BAPS sect feel the need to build mandirs in every city, shouldn't money be spent where its needed like charitiy causes in India?

 

Lord Swaminarayan promoted equality of the lower caste and believed in getting rid of discrimination against low caste and women. This is why blessed food(prasad) is distibuted to the poor as an act of service. And all caste worship together.

 

 

 

|| The Poor can Please God throught Shrddha ||

 

“Furthermore, it is not the case that God’s pleasure is bestowed only on those who offer bhakti with various articles and not upon the poor. Someone may be poor, but if he offers water, leaves, fruits and flowers to God with shraddhã, that is enough to please Him…”

 

http://www.swaminarayan.org/vachanamrut/829.php

 

BAPS builds mandirs all over the world, because they are the foundation for and God-centered society and more than a place of worship. Many community activities take place there along with many charity functions, look at Neasden temple it's more the a place of worship. Also, charity doesn't just begin and end in India there are places all over the world that need help. BAPS has a full time charity trust that completes many yearly mission activities. http://www.bapscharities.org/

 

As far as BAPS building temples why is this an issue with BAPS, no one questions when there are new churches, mosques that pop up for their followers, why the issue with BAPS. We have a right to build places of worship for our followers, you could always say money is better spent somewhere else. If that was the case the Bollywood shouldn't even exist, all of that money spent on movies should be given to some charity. Or why not blame indian billionaires, who don't give back to their community and spend $60 million dollars on a wedding. The point is India's poverty doesn't rest on the shoulders of BAPS. Charity and hand outs aren't gonna make India a first world country, more jobs, better infrastructure and better economic policies will. None of this is a issue that has anything to do with BAPS. We are interesting in building the spiritual foundation of India, the government and business world can handle the economic foundation. Peace.

[Guest]

 

Whoever they elect, like it's been done since BAPS's beginning. And no, there is no infighting going on in BAPS that's the shree swaminarayan sampradaya.

 

no its not in teh Orthodox Sampraday that Shriji Maharaj established at all. The Acharyas are already elected before the current one goes to Akshardham. So your mistaken yet again.

 

If you would have taken time to read the original scriptures as they are maybe you may realise Swaminarayan bhagwans will.