What is Gaudiya Vaisnava's position on the Death Penalty?

[Guest guest]

???

[Guest guest]

What is yours?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I think there can be no official position because there are too many variables: what governement is running the country, whether the justice system is fair and honest, which crimes are punishable by death, how the sentence is carried out, etc.

 

If you look at the scriptures they speak of a death penalty, but that takes into consideration the king being a pious upholder of dharma. Over all, if the country is just and the crimes are severe, the scriptures would tend to support the death penalty.

[Nitaichandra]

I think it also depends on the acceptance the particular gaudiya vaishnava has of the so-called vedic culture .

 

It seems that Bhaktivedanta Swami had a strong preference for establishing some of the practices of a so-called golden age of vedic times with its special laws ( Manu-samhita , Dharma-shastra ... ) . How much of these tendencies remain in today´s Iskcon leaves space for further discussion .

 

Now , even though I have read a little bit of the viewpoint the Gaudiya Math has on these matters , I don´t remember it really . ( anyway , it would be interesting to review that ... )

 

But , I can tell from my memory that the traditional gaudiyas ( non Iskcon-GM ) do not really care much about "vedic revivalism" .

How much that does influence their stance on grave matters like the death penalty ( which according to Bhaktivedanta Swami was vedic ) stands open .

 

Anyway , what I´ve read is that they are much too concerned with internal bhajan , and do not interfere much with mundane or social affairs .

Clearly , they reject obvious transgression against morality and people´s safeness .

[theist]

Death penalty yes. From what I understand it sends the offender on his way with a certain karmic load off his back as well as maintaining civil order in the material society. But without a true change in heart the murderer of this birth may again murder in the next. A bandaid solution at best but sometimes you need a bandaid to stop the immediate bleeding.

 

What we have today with people on death row for decades as their case is automatically appealed is a farce. If it is undisputable I think the death penalty should be carried out swiftly.

 

Like JNdas said. A pious king who is decisive and properly motivated is best. Our present system is far from that.

 

Also I remember reading a verse in the SB long ago that was a very strong admonition against executing an innocent man. Anyone know where that is? I can't find it anymore.

 

Glad I'm not a judge.

[Guest guest]

 

???

What is Gaudiya Vaisnava's position on the Death Penalty?

Gaudiya Vaishnava's position is clearly pro Death Penalty because it is in the laws for humanity, Manu-samhita.

Death penalty is actually mercy for those who deserve it so won't have to suffer, karmically speaking, for the sin he has committed. And in the Manu Samhita if a person commits a capital crime and the head of government doesn't execute him, the government is at fault and reaps bad karma.

[Guest guest]

Can anyone provide references to the Manu-samhita where the death penalty is mentioned and for what crimes it is supported?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Just from memory, Prabhupada cites Manusamhita as follows:

 

1) one who steals one's land

2) one who plunders riches

3) one who steals another's wife

4) one who administers poison

5) one who attacks with deadly weapons

6) one who sets fire to someone's house

 

It isn't clear if killing these people is recommended in self defense as the attack is occuring, or if they should be put to death after found guilty of these crimes. In modern society, some of these crimes wouldn't be considered serious enough for the death penalty.

[Yofu]

 

Just from memory, Prabhupada cites Manusamhita as follows:

 

1) one who steals one's land

2) one who plunders riches

3) one who steals another's wife

4) one who administers poison

5) one who attacks with deadly weapons

6) one who sets fire to someone's house

 

It isn't clear if killing these people is recommended in self defense as the attack is occuring, or if they should be put to death after found guilty of these crimes. In modern society, some of these crimes wouldn't be considered serious enough for the death penalty.

 

Since the land that is now America was stolen from the American Indians, all Europeans living there should be killed.

George Bush should be killed since he started the WAR.

I'm sorry I don't agree with the manu samhita.....killing is wrong!

[rand0M aXiS]

 

Since the land that is now America was stolen from the American Indians, all Europeans living there should be killed.

George Bush should be killed since he started the WAR.

I'm sorry I don't agree with the manu samhita.....killing is wrong!

You are an inconsistent idiot! Killing is wrong you say, except if it is someone you dislike, like Americans or George Bush. What an immature brainless jerk. How old are you? You sound like a child.

[Yofu]

Duh!....Killing is wrong. My first two points were Sarcasm....my friend scarcasm...

[Guest guest]

I thought gaudiya vaishnavism is for the death penalty for criminals.

[gHari]

Merderers are punished less by Yamaraja's agents if the perp is executed here.

 

http://vedabase.net/bg/2/21/en

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/7/37/en

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/17/6/en

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/4/26/21/en

 

September 3, 1973:

 

PrabhupAda: This means everyone is sinful. Everyone is sinful. The government is sinful, the people are sinful. Then how you can become happy? It is a fool's paradise, sinful paradise. How you can be happy? Therefore despite all sorts of education, scientific improvement, brainwash and so many things, people are unhappy. Diseased, unhappy, dissatisfaction, confusion, this is going on. Because everything is not properly done. The government is not strict.

 

 

So in the Manu-smRti, as I am quoting from ParAzara-smRti, there are smRti-zAstras. The Manu-smRti, it is said that if a man commits murder, then he should be killed. Otherwise, he'll suffer in the next life.

So many sufferings. So the king's order to condemn a murderer to death is a mercy, is a mercy for him. Because he's saved from future, so many troubles. So the king should be so strict. Not that by compassion. "No. He's murderer. That's all right. He has killed one man. Why he should be killed?" No. He must be killed. This is the law. Here it is also, ParAzara-smRti, it is said that kSatriya should be always zastra-pANi, and must strictly, as soon as there is any discrepancy, he must take...

 

 

Formerly, the judgement was given by the king. Every day, king would sit. Just like we are sitting. So if there is... Formerly, there was no criminal, practically. If there was any criminal, if... It was very difficult to find out a criminal. Because these four things were forbidden. What is that? No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating. So if one follows these four principles, naturally he is sinless automatically. And if the whole population is sinless, then where is the possibility of judging or bringing the criminal? When Kali was awarded four places. He was first of all ordered by ParIkSit MahArAja. As soon as he saw that this black man is going to kill one cow, "Oh, who are you in my kingdom? You are trying to kill a cow?" He took his sword, "I shall kill you," immediately. So he fell down. "Sir, I am also your subject, and this is my business, killing. So what can I do? I must have some means of livelihood." Just like this butcher. His means of livelihood is to kill animal. So if the animal slaughterhouse is closed, then there will be so much unemployment. The butcher must have chance of killing. So that is not law, "Oh, butcher must have also employment." No. "Therefore slaughterhouse must be maintained." Not that.

 

 

So ParIkSit MahArAja said that "You cannot live in my kingdom. I cannot provide you with any employment. You must go out." So at that time, ParIkSit MahArAja was the emperor of the whole world, whole planet. So he said, "Sir, where shall I go out? The whole planet is your kingdom. Where shall I go out of your kingdom? Where is that place?" So ParIkSit MahArAja considered that. So, "All right, then you can remain in these four places." StriyaH sUnA pAnaM dyUtaM yatra pApaz catur-vidhaH. "Where illicit sex life, brothel, prostitute's house, you can remain there. StriyaH sUnA, slaughterhouse. Or unnecessarily where animals are killed, you can remain there." StriyaH sUnA pAnam. "And intoxication. Where liquor house, you can remain there. And where there is gambling, you can remain there." So he could not find out a place where to remain. That means in those days these things were so much conspicuous by absence that is was difficult for the Kali to find out a place like that. But with the advancement of Kali, now Kali can find out his place anywhere, at any home, anyplace. These things are going on. This is the position.

 

 

So this system of human civilization as conceived by the Vedic process is completely different from the rascal civilization at the present moment. Therefore, people cannot be happy. It is not possible. If we... At the same time, it is impossible to go back to that type of civilization, because people are so polluted. It is not possible. Therefore the only means is, as enunciated by SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu from BRhad NAradIya PurANa,

 

 

harer nAma harer nAma harer nAmaiva kevalam

 

kalau nAsty eva nAsty eva nAsty eva gatir anyathA

 

[Cc. Adi 17.21]

 

 

You take this process. Chant Hare KRSNa mantra. At least, you will be purified, you'll understand the situation. And if you follow the rules and regulation... It is very simple to avoid these four principle of sinful life and chant Hare KRSNa. Then you are sure, back to home, back to Godhead, and be happy eternally.

 

 

Thank you very much. Hare KRSNa. (end)

 

[krsna]

Without any substantial philosophical or scriptural understanding of justice and karma, emotion and sentiment in the face of taking a human life override the spiritual realities of an individual’s karmic dues…

 

Prabhupada:

So in the Manu-smRti, as I am quoting from ParAzara-smRti, there are smRti-zAstras. The Manu-smRti, it is said that if a man commits murder, then he should be killed. Otherwise, he'll suffer in the next life. So many sufferings. So the king's order to condemn a murderer to death is a mercy, is a mercy for him. Because he's saved from future, so many troubles. So the king should be so strict. Not that by compassion. "No. He's murderer. That's all right. He has killed one man. Why he should be killed?" No. He must be killed. This is the law.