Why a Hindu Accepts Christ and Rejects Churchianity By Swami Abhedananda

[Kalkin714]

 

<Center>Why a Hindu Accepts Christ

and Rejects Churchianity

By Swami Abhedananda

(A direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa)

Ramakrishna Vedanta Math, Calcutta.</center>

A Hindu distinguishes the religion of the churches from the religion of Jesus Christ. Speaking from the Hindu standpoint, the religion that the churches uphold and preach today, that has been built around the personality of Jesus the Christ, and which is popularly known as Christianity, should be called ‘Churchianity’, in contradistinction to that pure religion of the heart that was taught by Jesus the Christ and practised by his disciples. The religion of Christ or true Christianity had no dogma, no creed, no system, and no theology. It was a religion of the heart, a religion without any ceremonial, without ritual, without priest-craft. It was not based upon any book, but upon the feelings of the heart, upon direct communion of the individual soul with the heavenly Father. On the contrary, the religion of the church is based upon a book, believes in dogmas, professes a creed, has an organized system for preaching it, is backed up by theologies, performs rituals, practises ceremonials, and obeys the commands of a host of priests.

 

.......................................More: http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm

What do you think? Does your sect or personal veiw reflect this? I already know what some of you think. But I'm just trying to get a general consensus of what this group thinks (no need to go off on any rants about "proofs" against this or that, just your opinion if you care to give it.

[Guest guest]

 

 

<Center>Why a Hindu Accepts Christ

and Rejects Churchianity

By Swami Abhedananda

(A direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa)

Ramakrishna Vedanta Math, Calcutta.</center>

A Hindu distinguishes the religion of the churches from the religion of Jesus Christ. Speaking from the Hindu standpoint, the religion that the churches uphold and preach today, that has been built around the personality of Jesus the Christ, and which is popularly known as Christianity, should be called ‘Churchianity’, in contradistinction to that pure religion of the heart that was taught by Jesus the Christ and practised by his disciples. The religion of Christ or true Christianity had no dogma, no creed, no system, and no theology. It was a religion of the heart, a religion without any ceremonial, without ritual, without priest-craft. It was not based upon any book, but upon the feelings of the heart, upon direct communion of the individual soul with the heavenly Father. On the contrary, the religion of the church is based upon a book, believes in dogmas, professes a creed, has an organized system for preaching it, is backed up by theologies, performs rituals, practises ceremonials, and obeys the commands of a host of priests.

 

.......................................More:

What do you think? Does your sect or personal veiw reflect this? I already know what some of you think. But I'm just trying to get a general consensus of what this group thinks (no need to go off on any rants about "proofs" against this or that, just your opinion if you care to give it.

You must understand that without the bible or any of it's teachings there would be no Christianity. Everything you know of Jesus came from the bible.

 

The days when Jesus taught the huddle mass of people on the hill is over. Christianity since it's beginning has been a religion built upon a book. This goes for all the sects of Christianity.

[Apep]

 

You must understand that without the bible or any of it's teachings there would be no Christianity. Everything you know of Jesus came from the bible.

The days when Jesus taught the huddle mass of people on the hill is over. Christianity since it's beginning has been a religion built upon a book. This goes for all the sects of Christianity.

That was me who posted that.

[Eternal Law]

The History of Yogi Isha Messiah-Jesus the Christ

 

 

The spiritual training of Jesus

In the Himalayan fastnesses Jesus was instructed in yoga and the highest spiritual life, receiving the spiritual name "Isha," which means Lord, Master, or Ruler, a descriptive title often applied to God, as in the Isha Upanishad. Isha is also a particular title of Shiva.

The worship of Shiva centered in the form of the natural elliptical stone known as the Shiva Linga (Symbol of Shiva) was a part of the spiritual heritage of Jesus, for His ancestor Abraham, the father of the Hebrew nation, was a worshipper of that form. The Linga which he worshipped is today enshrined in Mecca within the Kaaba. The stone, which is black in color, is said to have been given to Abraham by the Archangel Gabriel, who instructed him in its worship.

Such worship did not end with Abraham, but was practiced by his grandson Jacob, as is shown in the twenty-eighth chapter of Genesis. Unwittingly, because of the dark, Jacob used a Shiva Linga for a pillow and consequently had a vision of Shiva standing above the Linga which was symbolically seen as a ladder to heaven by means of which devas (shining ones) were coming and going. Recalling the devotion of Abraham and Isaac, Shiva spoke to Jacob and blessed him to be an ancestor of the Messiah. Upon awakening, Jacob declared that God was in that place though he had not realized it. The light of dawn revealed to him that his pillow had been a Shiva Linga, so he set it upright and worshipped it with an oil bath, as is traditional in the worship of Shiva, naming it (not the place) Bethel: the Dwelling of God. (In another account in the thirty-fifth chapter, it is said that Jacob "poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon." This, too, is traditional, both milk and honey-which Shiva promised Moses would flow abundantly in Israel-being poured over the Linga as offerings.) From thenceforth that place became a place of pilgrimage and worship of Shiva in the form of the Linga stone. Later Jacob had another vision of Shiva, Who told him: "I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me." A perusal of the Old Testament will reveal that Bethel was the spiritual center for the descendants of Jacob, even above Jerusalem.

Although this tradition of Shiva [Linga] worship has faded from the memory of the Jews and Christians, in the nineteenth century it was evidenced in the life of the stigmatic Anna Catherine Emmerich, an Augustinian Roman Catholic nun. On several occasions when she was deathly ill, angelic beings brought her crystal Shiva Lingas which they had her worship by pouring water over them. When she drank that water she would be perfectly cured. Furthermore, on major Christian holy days she would have out-of-body experience in which she would be taken to Hardwar, a city sacred to Shiva in the foothills of the Himalayas, and from there to Mount Kailash, the traditional abode of Shiva, which she said was the spiritual heart of the world.

 

Isha's life in India

For the next few years the Himalayas became Jesus' well-travelled home. During part of that time Jesus meditated in a cave north of the present-day city of Rishikesh, one of the most sacred locales of India, and also on the banks of the Ganges in the holy city of Hardwar. In the years He spent in the Himalayas, He attained the supreme heights of spiritual realization.

Having attained perfect inner wisdom in the Himalayas, Jesus journeyed to the Gangetic plain to engage in the formal study that would prepare Him for the public teaching of Sanatana Dharma both in India and in the countries between India and Israel as well as in Israel itself.

First he went to live in Benares, the spiritual heart of India, the city most consecrated to the worship of Shiva and the major center of Vedic learning in all of India. During His time in the Himalayas, Jesus' endeavors had been centered almost exclusively on the practice of yoga. In Benares Jesus engaged in intense study of the spiritual teachings embodied in the Vedic scriptures-especially the books of spiritual philosophy known as the Upanishads.

He then journeyed to the sacred city of Jagannath Puri, which at that time was a great center of the worship of Shiva, second only to Benares. In Puri Jesus officially adopted the monastic life and lived some time as a member of the Govardhan Math,the monastery founded three centuries before His birth by the foremost philosopher-saint of India known as Adi Shankaracharya. There He perfected the synthesis of yoga, philosophy, and renunciation, and eventually began to publicly teach the Eternal Knowledge.

As a teacher Jesus was as popular as He was proficient in teaching, and gained great notoriety among all levels of society. However, because He insisted that all men should learn and be taught the meaning of the Vedas and their allied scriptures and began teaching the "lower" castes accordingly, as well as teaching that all could attain spiritual perfection without the intermediary of external, ritualized religion, He incurred the hatred of many religious "professionals" in Puri who began to plot His death.

Since "His hour was not yet come," He left Puri and returned to the Himalayas where He again spent quite some time in meditation, preparing Himself for His return to Israel. He also lived in various Buddhist monasteries in the Himalayan region, studying the wisdom of the Buddha. Before beginning the long journey westward, instructions were given Him regarding His mission in the West and the way messages could be sent between Jesus and His Indian teachers. Jesus was aware of the form and purpose of His life and death from His very birth, but it was the Indian Masters who made everything clear to Him regarding them. They promised Jesus that He would be sent a container of Himalayan Balsam to be poured upon His head by a close disciple as a sign that His death was imminent, even "at the door." When Saint Mary Magdalene performed this action in Bethany, Jesus understood the unspoken message, saying: "She is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying."

 

Return to India-not ascension

It is generally supposed that at the end of His ministry in Israel Jesus ascended into heaven. But Saint Matthew and Saint John, the two Evangelists that were eye-witnesses of His departure, do not even mention such a thing, for they knew that He went to India after departing from them. Saint Mark and Saint Luke, who were not there, simply speak of Jesus being taken up into the heavens. The truth is that He departed into India, though it is not unlikely that He did rise up and "fly" there. This form of travel is not unknown to the Indian yogis. That Jesus did not leave the world at the age of thirty-three was written about by Saint Irenaeus of Lyon in the second century. He claimed that Jesus lived to be fifty or more years old before leaving the earth, though he also said that Jesus was crucified at the age of thirty-three. This would mean that Jesus lived twenty years after the crucifixion. This assertion of Saint Irenaeus has puzzled Christian scholars for centuries, but if we put it together with other traditions it becomes comprehensible. Basilides of Alexandria, Mani of Persia, and Julian the Emperor said that Jesus had gone to India after His crucifixion.

[Apep]

It would be nice to think that Jesus was a yogi but I see no proof of it. There are stories, but are they true?

 

 

I try not to be judgemental. I believe every belief is valid.

 

I can not however help but judge the Abrahamic beliefs who say they are the only ones right while all other beliefs are blasphemy.

[Guest guest]

Well, if you talk about Christianity at large, remember that it has a great many denominations, many of which are quite hostile to one another. Many denominations hold views that directly conflict with other denominations. Take Catholicism as an example. Catholics believe in prayer to the Virgin Mary and the saints for intercession and also generally use statues/idols to aid prayer (at least more so than other denominations). This is considered unbiblical in other branches of Christianity. Some Christians belief in salvation through faith alone and others believe in salvation through good works. I don't see how so many different conflicting views could've been held or taught by Jesus Christ. Therefore, how could all of the teachings of Christianity be based on the teachings of Christ? Yes, it seems to me that the teachings of Christianity are largely based on the churches that have been established and evangelization.

[Apep]

 

Well, if you talk about Christianity at large, remember that it has a great many denominations, many of which are quite hostile to one another. Many denominations hold views that directly conflict with other denominations. Take Catholicism as an example. Catholics believe in prayer to the Virgin Mary and the saints for intercession and also generally use statues/idols to aid prayer (at least more so than other denominations). This is considered unbiblical in other branches of Christianity. Some Christians belief in salvation through faith alone and others believe in salvation through good works. I don't see how so many different conflicting views could've been held or taught by Jesus Christ. Therefore, how could all of the teachings of Christianity be based on the teachings of Christ? Yes, it seems to me that the teachings of Christianity are largely based on the churches that have been established and evangelization.

Regardless of their different beliefs they are all under the influence of the main teachings of the bible which all of them follow. All denominations say that non-believers goes to hell and the true believers of Christ are the only select few who shall see heaven.

This means if you are Christian you will see heaven if you follow the layed out teachings. If you are not Christian then you go to their Christian hell.

Who is the non-believer you may ask? It is the whole world that is not Christian and that includes peaceful Hindus.

Why do people here not see that this religion has no tolerance in it at all. It is a religion of assimilation and destruction of any other opposition in it's wake.

In the bible their God said, " I have not brought peace but a only a sword."

So many great cultures in Europe and all around the world have fell prey to this religion and it's intolerance. The ancient Greeks,Romans,Germanic,Celtic,ancient Egypt and so on fell to these beliefs.

These great cultures were great like the Hindu culture. Hinduism must resist Christianity.

Hinduism at best should ignore Christians and leave Christians to themselves to their own delusions.

I don't want people to take that badly. I am sure there are some nice virtuous individuals who are great people that are Christian. My father is one.

However , even though they may be nice people it does not change anything in the part of the religion they worship.

[Sheki]

Well that's not exactly the truth, they do belief that pure hated people can attain salvation in other religions and often believe that the same God is ultimately worshiped, but that they do not have Christ to follow .. actually more similar to Gaudyas that can be a little one-sided also.

As for their opinions of the East that also differs as the church is not so unified an has different opinions within itself. Generally some orders like Jesuits or Camaldolese monastic are more inclined towards eastern mysticism than some others. You have priests that are trained in yoga or have the roshi title making them Zen teachers etc. I'm not saying that this is the majority, but neither can you say the church globally has no respect at all for non-Christians. It goes down to personal opinions. I’ve heard priests saying even that TaeKwonDo is a demonic practice, but also priests saying (in confidence, not in public) about monastic sent by the church to study yoga and another holding Hare Krishna’s in great esteem and defending them when local Catholics were against their temple in vicinity. Nothing is black or white.

Hear is a site of the camaldolese order dedicated to the dialogue between east and west(bedegriffiths.com/cam/camaldolese_institute.htm)

[Sheki]

I can't post the link properly because I don't have 15 posts, the url is there.

[nekozuki]

 

Regardless of their different beliefs they are all under the influence of the main teachings of the bible which all of them follow. All denominations say that non-believers goes to hell and the true believers of Christ are the only select few who shall see heaven.

This means if you are Christian you will see heaven if you follow the layed out teachings. If you are not Christian then you go to their Christian hell.

Who is the non-believer you may ask? It is the whole world that is not Christian and that includes peaceful Hindus.

Why do people here not see that this religion has no tolerance in it at all. It is a religion of assimilation and destruction of any other opposition in it's wake.

In the bible their God said, " I have not brought peace but a only a sword."

So many great cultures in Europe and all around the world have fell prey to this religion and it's intolerance. The ancient Greeks,Romans,Germanic,Celtic,ancient Egypt and so on fell to these beliefs.

These great cultures were great like the Hindu culture. Hinduism must resist Christianity.

Hinduism at best should ignore Christians and leave Christians to themselves to their own delusions.

I don't want people to take that badly. I am sure there are some nice virtuous individuals who are great people that are Christian. My father is one.

However , even though they may be nice people it does not change anything in the part of the religion they worship.

There are many things that Jesus says in the New Testament that are questionable, that sword quote you mentioned needs to be taken seriously. Either he really did say that or someone put it there. I personally blame Christianity for the complete fall of Rome, it was having problems before but I noticed that after Rome adopted Christianity it fell and then it goes into the Middle Ages. The age of ignorance and intolerance. Even some scholars credit Christianity as destroying Rome.

[bija]

here is the link:www.bedegriffiths.com

 

There is a local catholic priest where I live who is a bit of a local legend. A real open hearted nice person you might say. His best friend who he went to seminary college with became a disciple of Bede Griffiths. During the sixties elements of their church began to open up to different faiths, especially eastern faiths. But unfortunately this is not the case with all. As Apep is expressing some can be quite fanatical and you may find this more with fundamentalist christians.

I had several meetings with this particular catholic priest and had some wonderful conversations. When he found out that I practiced bhakti yoga his face lit up and our conversations became sweet. Also I met many others in his congregation who were very open minded and interested in many things. Most of them were interested in the Benedictine way of life and some had even practiced christian meditation as taught by the Benedictine monk, John Main. www.wccm.org

Without having to sacrifice or dilute down one's beliefs, or even make a mixed bag of things; personally I am interested in inter faith dialogue.

[nekozuki]

That's interesting Bija. The Catholic Church is pretty much finished with "witch hunts" but Southern Baptists and Pentecostals are still not quite over it.

[bija]

nekozuki,

I have got a fair share of sectarian witch hunting directed at me over the years. But these days I try not to get so upset about it. I guess it all comes down to what our qualification is (read below), as to where we are situated regarding these things. I feel very fortunate to have been guided to some balanced teachings from a disciplic succession which has helped me grow a little. The article below has been a great blessing.

 

Sectarianism in Spirituality

by Shrila Sacchidananda Bhaktivinoda

Thakura in Shri Krishna Samhita

 

Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism.

Adherence to a particular standard is the prominent symptom of a society. There are three types of standards-alocakagata, alocanagata and alocyagata. Alocakagata is when sectarianists accept some external signs. Examples of alocakagata are tilaka, neck beads, saffron robes, and the baptism that is practiced abroad. The different activities practiced in the process of worship are called alocanagata. Examples of alocanagata are sacrifices, austerities, fire sacrifices, vows, studying scriptures, deity worship, constructing temples, respecting the purity of various trees and rivers, dressing like sannyasis, acting like acaryas, dressing like brahmacaris or grhasthas, closing one's eyes, respecting particular types of books, rules and regulations in eating, and respecting the purity of particular times and places. The examples of alocyagata are attributing personalism or impersonalism on the Supreme Lord, installing deities, exhibiting the mood of an incarnation of the Lord, speculating on heaven and hell, and describing the future destination of the soul.

The different forms of these spiritual activities create divisions of sectarianism. Differences that arise from places, times, languages, behaviors, foods, dresses, and natures of various communities are incorporated within people's spiritual practices and gradually make one community so completely different from another community that even the consideration that everyone is a human being may cease to exist. Due to these differences there is disagreement, cessation of social intercourse, and fighting, even up to the point of killing on another. When an ass-like mentality becomes prominent within the kanishta-adhikaris, they certainly indulge in these things. But if they develop a swanlike mentality, then they do not take part in quarrels; rather, they endeavor to attain a higher level. Madhyama-adhikaris do not quarrel so much about external standards, but they are always attacked by philosophical disagreements. Sometimes they condemn the standards of neophytes and establish their own standards as superior. They condemn the neophytes' deity worship in order to establish the worship-able Lord as formless. In such cases, they are also considered ass-like people.

Otherwise, if they had a swanlike mentality and a desire to attain a higher level, they would respect others' practices and inquire about higher topics. Contradictions actually arise only due to ass-like mentality. Swanlike persons consider the necessity for different practices to one's qualification, so they are naturally detached from sectarian quarrels. In this regard, it should be understood that both ass-like and swanlike people are found amongst the kanishta-adhikaris and madhyama-adhikaris.

I do not expect that asslike people will accept this book with respect. If neophytes and madhyama-adhikaris become completely indifferent in regard to the contradictions found in varoius practices and try to advance further, then they become swanlike. Then they are our respectable and dear friends. Although swanlike personalities may accept a particular practice from birth or childhood according to instructions they have recieved, they nevertheless remain indifferent and nonsectarian.

 

 

[nekozuki]

Yeah, it's kinda weird because there are certain sects of Christianity that come knocking on your door wanting you to join their Church. While Catholics don't seem to do that, at least when I was Catholic my church didn't do that. Like for instance the Book of Revelations is a book of the Bible you don't hear very often in the Catholic Church in fact a lot of Catholics don't believe in it. Protestant faiths on the other hand preach it just about everyday.

[Sheki]

Well I don't know how much truth there is in it but I remember reading Swami Vivekananda stating that Catholic Church has an advantage over other Christian churches in that there is more mysticism there, I don't remember exactly but I think it was about rituals, images etc that are used in the Catholic Church and avoided in some others and he was speaking about that as conductive to spiritual development and mystic experiences even though as a vedantin ultimately probably considered them of secondary importance.

Well I tend to agree wit that because of those ascetic traditions that were at their highest point in the first centuries, but continued to some extent in monastic traditions. And I dot’s think it is for no reason that monastic often have more understanding for the eastern mysticism than the diocesan priests that are often „punditlike“ formalists without a firm practice and often not following their wows (of celibacy etc) either. So though I have some issues with the church in global I do believe that it's monastic traditions were able to keep at least something of real value thru the ages

It should also be taken in consideration that more contemplative the monastic are less probable it is to hear about and from them. Worldly and formalistic people more into the organization than into living their fait are usually the loudest in every church ..

After all some strict orders like the Chartusians once ordained have no contact with the outside world whatsoever besides the family that can visit them for two day a year. So you won't hear much from people spending their entire days in spiritual disciplines and ascetic living, but most of it will came from those that actually should never be considered of any spiritual authority.

[Guest guest]

 

Well I don't know how much truth there is in it but I remember reading Swami Vivekananda stating that Catholic Church has an advantage over other Christian churches in that there is more mysticism there, I don't remember exactly but I think it was about rituals, images etc that are used in the Catholic Church and avoided in some others and he was speaking about that as conductive to spiritual development and mystic experiences even though as a vedantin ultimately probably considered them of secondary importance

I read when he was in a church in Italy he drew parallels between catholic rituals and Vaishnava rituals.

 

I think the gnostic gospels have more of a silmalarity to Hinduism than the 4 gospels the church christian follows. The gnostic gospels in turn have been termed heretical by the church. The gospel of Judas has been added to this list of 30+.

[melvin]

many are confused with the word church.it`s the body of christ.in short, church is also the body of krsna. in that body are us.those who profess to worship christ or krsna is within that body.enuf said.

[Guest gene]

I'm convinced that in numerously accounted and unaccounted ways Christ has shown himself throughout the world.  It is written that the world itself would not be able to contain all the things he did had they all been accounted for.  I imagine when all is said and done the only important and relevant issue is avoiding hell at all costs through the repentance of our sins and a faith in Christ that is backed by good works.  Such a (faith-works-combo) that, while confessing him to be Lord and believing that God rose him from the dead, would also by necessity be much stronger than the demons who likewise believe and tremble..  "James 2:19" 

 

[Kody Tillotson]

Thank you all. I feel it is important to note that in the bible Jesus said multiple times that he had come solely for the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus even turned away people of other nationalities seeking help saying that where I go you can not follow me, and that I come only for the lost sheep of Israel. He did indeed create on occult religion for his people, trying to counteract the unprecedented occult programming the Jewish people underwent at the hands of the Levite priests, who passed down broken pieces of the science of imagery and how to create thought-forms or entities, including alchemy, but these are the same thing. With this teaching from Egypt the Levites were taught that they were meant to create the image of God for the rest of the world, and then the Jewish people were told by the Levites that they were the sole chosen people of God. Jesus Christ traveled many lands to learn this science of imagery, and with it created living images with which to lead and deprogram the Jewish people, creating a window of time for bringing the Jewish people back to truthful images of God. After certain events happened the High priest of the science of imagery of Egypt, whom considered the Jewish and Levite people his programmed people, turned the Christian religion into a world wide religion with priests and everything. Knowing that the world wide Christian belief after being changed a little bit by the High priest, would be teaching people to be a slave of God. Jewish belief and hidden Levite belief would be teaching an "initiated" population their teachings, and telling them that they are the rulers of the world. The solution to all of this has been co-created by a woman named Anastasia, a true Vedun, a Vedic or Vedruss teacher and mother whom lives in Siberia. She has helped the man she married to compose a series of books about her words and visions of the past and future which reveals an ancient option for life that has been hidden from most people on the Earth. With the images composed in these books a new awareness has been inspiring people, and even an ancient Vedruss cure for telegony is revealed. Telegony is when great mental and bodily speed send information speeding into the body from one's thoughts and feelings, this is usually when a man and woman come together, and partial urges are stored within the body if carried about only for carnal pleasure, or in other words to steal a partial urge for yourself. With this ancient Vedic cure for telegony, unsatisfying information from previous relationships can be erased, and children birthed in the exact image and likeness of your thoughts, without any stolen images getting in the way. All peoples, but in particular the hidden Levite faction of the world, could use this cure, as over many generations partial urges have been carried down through telegony, and these certain hidden occult groups have practiced much ritual combining of the male and female elements, probably with at least even a little carnal pleasure, which could even be the desire to steal an uncompleted image or urge while coming together. The Ringing Cedars of Russia series are the books describing these important images and ancient Vedic information. Anastasia herself creates a window of time where a great number of people are carried across the dark forces span of time, bringing an awareness to people who will help awaken the people around them and heal the Earth. This woman is also partially where I have learned how to talk about Jesus. Thank you for reading.