Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hi ALLEN Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisance unto him! This post is for Allen. I have been reading his other post and this one but did not respond. But now, i would like to give my 2 cents. Allen, your claim is "you successfully have proved ISKCON is following a downward path". In that regard i want to give a small story of mine. My own story, so you judge if ISKCON is not functioning or not. The goal of ISKCON which Srila Prabhupada created was to make atleast 1 soul a pure Krishna Conscious devotee. So, in that sense, ISKCON is always a success. I would like to give a VERY BRIEF account of my experiences. I personally was what one can call "one day away from being an atheist". In other words, i believed there was God but like most people, did not actually believe He existed. But, somehow or other, i came in contact with Bhagavad Gita as it is and by the grace of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, i got some mercy. This all happened in 1998. I have been in contact with ISKCON since then, i accept there is politics going on within ISKCON, but Prabhupada said, as long as there is MAYA, there will be problems. So, not all ISKCON devotees are exalted, everyone is learning. Anyway, my point, my life which was totally wasted as i went blind and had smoking addiction, meat eater and basically a miserable lifestyle, all changed.....you know why?.....because i read Bhagavad Gita as it is.....and it did not stop there......because.....i needed to materialise what Srila Prabhupada mentioned....so i wanted to go to the temple and see how it is and what it is. I saw Maharaj and i saw the devotees.......this was in 1998, and to be honest, it blew my mind off......the first thing i thought was....even if i cannot be a devotee.....i should be as humble as my Maharaj in this lifetime. So much humility and so much knowledge in one soul.......you tell me........this can happen only to ISKCON devotees....this is not a false position......the humility and knowledge....because you may argue....the Pope may have the same humility and knowledge...or any disciplined and compassion person can have humility and knowledge. Yes, they can but not in the correct mode. Humility, compassion and knowledge should be in the correct mode in Krishna Consciousness and hence can be found only in ISKCON becasue the others are in the modes of goodness and are not transcendental. Personally, it was a sublime feeling just seeing Maharaj and seeing devotees dance. So, tell me....prabhu.....where do you think ISKCON is wrong.......yes..........there are politics but that is the nature of man and hence people may differ but....access to knowledge, humbleness and true compassion can be found only in ISKCON and this is my opinion and experience. Why? because.....from a total degrading position i was able to become proper due to this association and book reading and chanting. Also, I recognize that some devotees are not actual devotees and that there may be some conflict but my question........why see the NEGATIVE side.......let us see the beautiful devotees, let us hear the beautiful Kirtan, glorify the PRASADAM and above all pay obeisances to the beautiful Srila Prabhupada and take pleasure in seeing Gauranga-Nitai and Radha and Krishna. This all was in ISKCON in the beginning and is even now in the temple next to you. May be the atmosphere changed but everything changes....but the essence and mood of devotion, in my opinion and experience can still be found and seen in devotees. One small question.....you eat meat- that is your FLAW....then you talk so much that devotees should accept flaws in others and talk about tolerance to others.......then why are you not TOLERATING and ACCEPTING all the devotees who posted here of their so called RESPONSES. You claim their responses are not compassionate and accepting and that the responses are too STUBBORN and NOT TOLERANT. Why dont you accept them as their FLAWS (like you have yours) and see them with compassion and try to correct them. Why are you instead of accusing them of their LACK OF TOLERANCE show compassion and try to explain things. Instead you chose to say the ISKCON is on a downward path because devotees are now days very hard headed and NOT TOLERANT----arent you doing the same thing!!??? I guess in my experience in life.......ISKCON revitalised my life and gave meaning to it. This was from 1998 to today...so it is modern and not during Srila Prabhupada's times. So in that sense.......i would never say ISKCON has been declining. It never will.......why? because....it is trying to spread the sublime message of Krishna and Srila Prabhupada Himself predicted that it will stay for the next 10,000 years. 10,000 years is a long time......so we can expect ups and downs. But....to sum it up........i think ISKCON is changing people's lives and give MEANING to people's lives which otherwise would be a sense enjoyment lifestyle. Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirali Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Well said Anand.... Lord Krishna has given Allen a chance of a life time... to associate with devotees, be able to go to the temple everyday,read Prabhupada's books... i consider him to be very very lucky... The mind and senses given to him in this human life are certainely taking over him (the soul) and i know what ever he has been saying is due to his attachement with the material senses therefore i cannot jugde the real him (excluding senses) as Lord Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita that we should all look at the sinners and wellwishers with an equal vision and we should not get angry when provoked... All i know is that Allen is knowingly commiting sins and the devotees are just trying to show him the right path...he has made this thread to look as if he is the right one and all the other devotees are wrong...that is not fair..he is insulting Lord Krishna....he should be greatful that even after commiting sins,the doors to Lord Krishna's heart for him is still open... All i want to clear up is the idea of him claiming that the devotees are bad people...i know i shouldnt bother wasting my time like Airicky suggested but i still think it is necessary... Dont commit sins knowingly...that is the highest of sins... I know your tired of all those 'Dont do this,dont do that'..but that is the truth and the truth is usually always painful... Jay Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vijay Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Haribol Allen prabhu, I think you are correct that there are many devotees that are not compassionate and have issues with their personality, just as we ourselves have. I have also complained about devotees not being as they should be for years, researching whats happened and then presenting my opinions on how to solve it. Only recently I've reliased that just by telling people what to do and how to behave is not going to help much (can even be quite unhelpful). Just like if someone asked me to be pure or change myself I wont do it straight away if at all. So in the same way I cant tell people what to do and expect them to change, If I want someone to change I have to be compassionate about it, we have to be the change we want to see, and if people see that it works they will follow in the same way. Devotees come from many backgrounds, some from disfunctional families degraded backgrounds and they try their best to stay on the path with their baggage, just as you do, we should help in the ways we can and they can help us in the ways they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirali Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 why do you want to take things into your own hand?? Lord Krishna mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita that he will come down to Earth in the human form whenever there is a decline in righteousness and religion...in the Srimad Bhagavatam it is mentioned that Lord Krishna will come in the form on Kalki in the near end of the Kalyug Age...If Lord Krishna has thought of all this then why worry about the problem of not many americans (as you suggest Allen) being attracted to Krishna Consciousness... Lord Krishna is watching everything...he had predicted all this ages ago...that in the Kalyug age there will be a decline in righteous,honesty etc and people will start acting like demons... Just leave things as they are...if you can attract non-believers to the Hare Krishna movement by abiding to the RULES STATED IN THE BHAGAVAD GITA (DIRECTLY FROM THE SUPREME LORD) then go ahead...if you have to go against Lord Krishna so that you can attract non-believers then my friend i am sure the non-believers will laugh at you for going against the Lord you dearly love... Jay Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhakti boy Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 and with all due respect allen, u cannot lump ALL devotees in the same bag. we are all individuals. and i kno that i personally treated u with respect in my previous responses to ur meat-eating, so u cannot say that we all attack the messenger. i also have to disagree that iskcon is not doing well in north america. it is doing quite well and there are many examples of progressive activities going on, however, i digress. altho i agree that some devotees have a terrible attitude and are far too arrogant (i have also been a victim of this growing up) but we cannot throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. hare krsna good luck to you. be well manu dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I am yet another Guest. My apologies as I am not ready to register yet. I openly admit I am ignorant on the subject of Krishna. I just started becoming interested in this movement a couple of months ago. But I had one simple observation that I wanted to share with some of you in the even that you might find it interesting. For some of us in the world, our only interaction with devotees will come via a message board such as this one. Where I live, there are no temples, and the wealth of this culture and movement is not to be found. So a place such as this, is where I have stumbled across to find information and inspiration. So while this would never be meant to be intended as a temple, it is the only opportunity I currently know of where I might by chance be able to communicate with devotees. I have no guru. I try to read some of the same books we all read, which frankly some of which are taking me quite a while Since I have no exposure to temples, or devotees, or never get to meet people of like mind, I do not know what to expect. In my mind, I had imagined a place where people are not people I guess. Where the ego is not free to roam when poked and prodded as it has been within this discussion. And now, I see even amongst devotees this is not possible, for even devotees are human. As a person who knows very little, if I might offer one thought for some of you, who have much more knowledge than myself (as such please forgive me) : What you say can have more weight than you intended it to. Thank you for your time. Love, Yet another guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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