Gayatri Mantra and knowledge

[shiva]

I read on a thread that Srila Narayana Maharaja said this about the Gayatri mantra:

 

"The gayatri-mantra gives all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna"

 

Could someone explain to me how a mantra "gives all kinds of transcendental knowledge"?

 

I don't understand how a mantra "gives knowledge". From my own experience it seems knowledge is something which is learned from either direct experience or from hearing from a knowledgable source. If I have any spiritual knowledge I know where that knowledge has come from i.e from hearing from guru, sastra, and sadhu and also from personal experience of different varieties. I can't think of any knowledge that I have gained from chanting any mantra. I don't understand how chanting a mantra can "give knowledge". I can understand how a mantra can affect consciousness and help a person develop insight into spiritual knowledge, but I can't understand how divya jnana, spiritual knowledge itself , can be given by a mantra. Can someone explain how they think a mantra can "give knowledge"?

[Guest guest]

shiva: "I don't understand how a mantra 'gives knowledge'."

 

That immediately raises a crucial question: Have you been initiated into chanting gayatri or other diksa mantras by a bonafide spiritual master? If not, it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that you don't understand this. The mantra is a manifestation of Godhead. It is alive, not just an ordinary sound. In Brihad-Bhagavatamrta, the Gopal mantra gradually reveals everything to Gopa Kumar.

[Guest guest]

TEXT 27

 

atha venu-ninadasya

trayi-murti-mayi gatih

sphuranti pravivesasu

mukhabjani svayambhuvah

gayatrim gayatas tasmad

adhigatya sarojajah

samskrtas cadi-gununa

dvijatam agamat tatah

 

SYNONYMS

atha--then; venu-ninadasya--of the sound of the flute; trayi-murti-mayi--the mother of the three Vedas; gatih--the means (the Gayatri mantra); sphuranti--being made manifest; pravivesa--entered; asu--quickly; mukha-abjani--the lotus faces; svayambhuvah--of Brahma; gayatrim--the Gayatri; gayatah--sounding; tasmat--from Him (Sri Krsna); adhigatya--having received; saroja-jah--the lotus-born (Brahma); samskrtah--initiated; ca--and; adi-guruna--by the primal preceptor; dvijatam--the status of the twice-born; agamat--attained; tatah--thereafter.

 

TRANSLATION

Then Gayatri, mother of the Vedas, being made manifest, i.e. imparted, by the divine sound of the flute of Sri Krsna, entered into the lotus mouth of Brahma, born from himself, through his eight ear-holes. The lotus-born Brahma having received the Gayatri, sprung from the flute-song of Sri Krsna, attained the status of the twice-born, having been initiated by the supreme primal preceptor, Godhead Himself.

 

PURPORT

The sound of Krsna's flute is the transcendental blissful sound; hence the archetype of all Veda, is present in it. The Gayatri is Vedic rhythm. It contains a brief meditation and prayer. Kama-gayatri is the highest of all the Gayatris, because the meditation and prayer contained in it are full of the perfect transcendental sportive activities which are not to be found in any other Gayatri. The Gayatri that is attained as the sequel of the eighteen-lettered mantra is kama-gayatri which runs thus: klim kama-devaya vidmahe puspa-banaya dhimahi tan no 'nangah pracodayat. In this Gayatri, the realization of the transcendental pastimes of Sri Gopijana-vallabha after perfect meditation and the prayer for the attainment of the transcendental god of love are indicated. In the spiritual world there is no better mode of endeavor for securing the superexcellent rasa-bedewed love. As soon as that Gayatri entered into the ear-holes of Brahma, he became the twice-born and began to chant the Gayatri. Whoever has received the same Gayatri in reality. has attained his spiritual rebirth. The status of a twice-born that is obtained in accordance with one's worldly nature and lineage, by the fettered souls in this mundane world, is far inferior to that of the twice-born who obtains admission into the transcendental world; because the initiation or acquisition of transcendental birth as a result of spiritual initiation is the highest of glories in as much as the jiva is thereby enabled to attain to the transcendental realm.

 

TEXT 28

trayya prabuddho 'tha vidhir

vijnata-tattva-sagarah

tustava veda-sarena

stotrenanena kesavam

 

SYNONYMS

trayya--by the embodiment of the three Vedas; prabuddhah--enlightened; atha--then; vidhih--Brahma; vijnata--acquainted with; tattva-sagarah--the ocean of truth; tustava--worshiped; veda-sarena--which is the essence of all Vedas; stotrena--by the hymn; anena--this; kesavam--Sri Krsna.

 

TRANSLATION

Enlightened by the recollection of that Gayatri, embodying the three Vedas, Brahma became acquainted with the expanse of the ocean of truth. Then he worshiped Sri Krsna, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn.

 

PURPORT

Brahma thought thus within himself, "By the recollection of kama-gayatri it seems to me that I am the eternal maidservant of Krsna." Though the other mysteries in regard to the condition of the maidservant of Krsna were not revealed to him, Brahma, by dint of his searching self-consciousness, became well acquainted with the ocean of truth. All the truths of the Vedas were revealed to him and with the help of those essences of the Vedas he offered this hymn to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. Sriman Mahaprabhu has taught this hymn to His favorite disciples in as much as it fully contains all the transcendental truths regarding the Vaisnava philosophy. Readers are requested to study and try to enter into the spirit of his hymn with great care and attention, as a regular daily function.

 

Sri Brahma Samhita Txt 27 & 28

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's purports translated by Professor Sanyal

and published by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura

 

If this process of initiation and purification was how Sri Krsna enlightened Lord Brahma it follows that members of his sampradaya will follow suit, under the direction of the guru parampara.

[shiva]

From the purport to Madhya 8.138

 

 

kama-gayatri-mantra-rupa, haya krishnera svarupa,

 

sardha-cabbisa akshara tara haya

 

se akshara 'candra' haya, krishne kari' udaya,

 

trijagat kaila kamamaya

 

The Kama-gayatri mantra is just like a Vedic hymn, but it is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. There is no difference between the Kama-gayatri and Krishna. Both are composed of twenty-four and a half transcendental syllables (see Madhya 21.125-29). The mantra depicted in letters is also Krishna, and the mantra rises just like the moon. Due to this, there is a perverted reflection of desire in human society and among all kinds of living entities. In the mantra klim kama-devaya vidmahe pushpa-banaya dhimahi tan no 'nangah pracodayat, Krishna is called Kama-deva, Pushpa-bana and Ananga. Kama-deva is Madana-mohana, the Deity who establishes our relationship with Krishna; Pushpa-bana ("He who carries an arrow made of flowers") is Govinda, the Personality of Godhead who accepts our devotional service; and Ananga is Gopijana-vallabha, who satisfies all the gopis and is the ultimate goal of life. This Kama-gayatri (klim kama-devaya vidmahe pushpa-banaya dhimahi tan no 'nangah pracodayat) simply does not belong to this material world. When one is advanced in spiritual understanding, he can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead with his spiritually purified senses and fulfill the desires of the Lord.

As guest pointed pointed out from Lord Brahma:

 

"By the recollection of kama-gayatri it seems to me that I am the eternal maidservant of Krsna." Though the other mysteries in regard to the condition of the maidservant of Krsna were not revealed to him, Brahma, by dint of his searching self-consciousness, became well acquainted with the ocean of truth. All the truths of the Vedas were revealed to him"

 

The Kama Gayatri tells us a limited amount of information. Brahma was awakened towards the highest reality by Kama Gayatri, but he was unable to gain entrance into the mysteries of Krishna by that. It was Brahma's "searching self consciousness" which was to lead to the mysteries of Sri Krishna being revealed to him.

 

So my original question was:

 

 

"The gayatri-mantra gives all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna"

 

Could someone explain to me how a mantra "gives all kinds of transcendental knowledge"?

It appears that the knowledge that the mantra gives is limited, it is an introduction to the highest truth. A mantra of 24 syllables is limited in the amount of knowledge it can give. The words of the Kama Gayatri point one towards madhurya rasa, by hearing that mantra Brahma became awakened towards the ultimate truth of the Vedas final conclusion. In order for one to become well acquainted with the highest truth there must be a much deeper level of self realization and acquisition of knowledge.

 

So I still have to wonder how a mantra can give:

 

"all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna"

 

It would appear to me that the amount of divya jnana mentioned above seems to be something which is not given by any mantra. Brahma had to search within himself for some time to become well acquainted with the ocean of truth after reception of the gayatri. We are similar to Brahma in that although a mantra can awaken us to the highest truth to some degree, it will take searching within to have the highest truth revealed to us.

 

We can see this to be true from our own experience. How many of us and how many people do we know who have been initiated into chanting Gayatri mantras, the mahamantra, or any number of mantras? How many of those are actually self realized souls due to chanting those mantras for years on end? How many have entered into a direct relationship with Sri Radha Krishna due to those mantras?

 

Ultimately the mantra is a tool to aide us in our progression towards self realization. While the mantra is non different from Sri Krishna, it's purpose is to inspire us to bring us closer to Krishna. For that closeness to actually occur we have to search within ourselves, it is from within where we will find the highest truth revealed to us. It is within our selves where we will find Sri Radha Krishna ready to reveal all. The mantra inspires us and purifies us, but the actual knowledge of the highest truth and our relationship with it is something we can only experience by awakening to what lies at the core of our being. We need to look inward, not within our bodies, within our minds, our souls, it is there where we will find God as our constant companion. That is where the final truth is found. Only from there can we know who we truly are and what our relationship with God truly is and can be.

[Guest guest]

God and self realization are only possible by the mercy of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. Two elements enter into the equation. The mercy of Sri guru and the sincere practices of any sadhaka. Krsna clearly explains this process in Bg. 4.34, so there is no need to guess about it. Simply because we are conditioned souls and at present incapable of chanting suddha nama, and having complete realization of any mantra does not change the fact that without the anugatya (guidance) and mercy of a sad guru, self-realization is impossible. You can guess about this principle or intellectualize the matter forever, but such speculative mental efforts won't bear any fruit.

 

TEXT 24

 

TEXT

 

uvaca puratas tasmai

tasya divya sarasvati

kama-krsnaya govinda

he gopi-jana ity api

vallabhaya priya vahner

mantram te dasyati priyam

 

SYNONYMS

 

uvaca--said; puratah--in front; tasmai--to him; tasya--of Him (the Supreme Lord); divya--divine; sarasvati--the goddess of learning; kama--the kama-bija (klim); krsnaya--to Krsna; govinda--govindaya, to Govinda; he--O; gopi-jana--of the gopis; iti--thus; api--also; vallabhaya--to the dear one; priya vahneh--the wife of Agni, Svaha (the word svaha is uttered while offering oblations); mantram--mantra; te--to you; dasyati--will give; priyam--the heart's desire.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Then the goddess of learning Sarasvati, the divine consort of the Supreme Lord, said thus to Brahma who saw nothing but gloom in all directions, "O Brahma, this mantra, viz., klim krsnaya govindaya gopi-jana-vallabhaya svaha, will assuredly fulfill your heart's desire."

 

PURPORT

 

The mantra, consisting of the eighteen divine letters prefixed by the kama-bija, is alone superexcellent. It has a twofold aspect. One aspect is that it tends to make the pure soul run after all-attractive Sri Krsna, the Lord of Gokula and the divine milkmaids. This is the acme of the spiritual tendency of jivas. When the devotee is free from all sorts of mundane desires and willing to serve the Lord he attains the fruition of his heart's desire, viz., the love of Krsna. But in the case of the devotee who is not of unmixed aptitude this superexcellent mantra fulfills his heart's desire also. The transcendental kama-bija is inherent in the divine logos located in Goloka; and the kama-bija pervertedly reflected in the worldly affairs satisfies all sorts of desires of this mundane world.

 

TEXT 25

 

TEXT

 

tapas tvam tapa etena

tava siddhir bhavisyati

 

SYNONYMS

 

tapah--spiritual austerity; tvam--you; tapa--practice; etena--by this; tava--your; siddhih--fulfillment; bhavisyati--will be.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"O Brahma, do thou practice spiritual association by means of this mantra; then all your desires will be fulfilled."

 

PURPORT

 

Its purport is clear.

 

TEXT 26

 

TEXT

 

atha tepe sa suciram

prinan govindam avyayam

svetadvipa-patim krsnam

goloka-stham parat param

 

prakrtya guna-rupinya

rupinya paryupasitam

sahasra-dala-sampanne

koti-kinjalka-brmhite

 

bhumis cintamanis tatra

karnikare mahasane

samasinam cid-anandam

jyoti-rupam sanatanam

 

sabda-brahma-mayam venum

vadayantam mukhambuje

vilasini-gana-vrtam

svaih svair amsair abhistutam

 

SYNONYMS

 

atha--then; tepe--practiced austerity; sah--he (Brahma); suciram--for a long time; prinan--satisfying; govindam--Govinda; avyayam--imperishable; svetadvipa-patim--the Lord of Svetadvipa; krsnam--Krsna; goloka-stham--situated in Goloka; parat param--the greatest of all; prakrtya--by the external energy; guna-rupinya--embodying all mundane qualities; rupinya--possessing form; paryupasitam--worshiped from outside; sahasra-dala-sampanne--on a lotus of a thousand petals; koti-kinjalka--by millions of filaments; brmhite--augmented; bhumih--the land; cintamanih--magical touchstone; tatra--there; karnikare--on the whorl; maha-asane--on a great throne; samasinam--seated; cit-anandam--the form of transcendental bliss; jyotih-rupam--the form of effulgence; sanatanam--eternal; sabda-brahma--divine sound; mayam--comprising; venum--the flute; vadayantam--playing; mukha-ambuje--at His lotus mouth; vilasini-gana--by the gopis; vrtam--surrounded; svaih svaih--own respective; amsaih--by subjective portions; abhistutam--worshiped.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Brahma, being desirous of satisfying Govinda, practiced the cultural acts for Krsna in Goloka, Lord of Svetadvipa, for a long time. His meditation ran thus, "There exists a divine lotus of a thousand petals, augmented by millions of filaments, in the transcendental land of Goloka. On its whorl, there exists a great divine throne on which is seated Sri Krsna, the form of eternal effulgence of transcendental bliss, playing on His divine flute resonant with the divine sound, with His lotus mouth. He is worshiped by His amorous milkmaids with their respective subjective portions and extensions and also by His external energy [who stays outside] embodying all mundane qualities."

 

PURPORT

 

Although the object of meditation is fully transcendental, yet owing to her nature which is permeated with the quality of active mundane hankering, Maya, the nonspiritual potency of Krsna, embodying the principles of mixed sattva, rajas, and tamas, in the forms of Durga, and other nonspiritual powers, meditated on the Supreme Lord Krsna as the object of their worship. So long as there is any trace of mundane desire in one's heart, it is the object of worship of Mayadevi (Durga) who has to be worshiped by such a person; nevertheless the fulfillment of one's heart's desire results from the worship of the object of worship of Mayadevi, and not from the worship of Mayadevi herself. This is in accordance with the sloka, akamah sarva-kamo va moksa-kama udara-dhih. tivrena bhakti-yogena yajeta purusam param. The meaning of this sloka of the Bhagavatam is that though other gods, as distinct manifestations of the Supreme Lord, are bestowers of sundry specific boons, yet a sensible person should worship the all powerful Supreme Lord, giver of all good, with unalloyed devotion, without worshiping those mundane gift-giving deities. Accordingly. Brahma meditated upon Krsna in Goloka, the object of the worship, from a distance, of Mayadevi. True devotion is unalloyed devotional activity free from all mundane desire. The devotion of Brahma, etc., is not unmixed devotion. But there is a stage of unmixed predilection even in devotion for the attainment of one's selfish desire. This has been fully described in the concluding five slokas of this work. That is the easiest method of divine service, prior to the attainment of self-realization, by fallen souls.

 

Brahma-samhita

Txt

[Guest guest]

 

From the purport to Madhya 8.138

It would appear to me that the amount of divya jnana mentioned above seems to be something which is not given by any mantra. Brahma had to search within himself for some time to become well acquainted with the ocean of truth after reception of the gayatri. We are similar to Brahma in that although a mantra can awaken us to the highest truth to some degree, it will take searching within to have the highest truth revealed to us.

 

We can see this to be true from our own experience. How many of us and how many people do we know who have been initiated into chanting Gayatri mantras, the mahamantra, or any number of mantras? How many of those are actually self realized souls due to chanting those mantras for years on end? How many have entered into a direct relationship with Sri Radha Krishna due to those mantras?.

Better to study the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami under the guidance of a self realized soul, and then there is no need to speculate like this about how Brahmaji achieved perfection, and what path we need to follow to attain similar success. Bhakti-yoga is scientificaly explain by Srila Rupa as a gradual process of practice and steady progress under the instructions of and in sadhu-sanga.

 

Here are some quotes from His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

"adau sraddha tato sadhu-

sanga atha bhajana-kriya

tato anartha-nivrttih syat

tato nistha tatah rucis

tathasaktis tato bhavas

sadhakanam ayam premnah

pradurbhave bhavet kramah

 

These are the different stage. Now you are coming in this Krsna consciousness movement. This is called sraddha, a little faith. And if you increase that faith... How it can be increased? By association with devotees. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sanga. Sadhu means devotees.. . . "

 

". . . Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sanga. And these devotees... This is our method. When a man, a gentleman or lady comes to our association, he associates with us for three months, six months, then automatically he desires to be initiated. Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sanga atha bhajana-kriya. Bhajana-kriya means one becomes anxious. The effect of sadhu-sanga is to become anxious how to execute this devotional service properly. That is called initiation. So they come forward. The president recommends that "This boy or girl is now living with us for so many months, he's interested, he may be initiated." Then we initiate. But initiate with some condition. Anartha-nivrttih syat. These are the different stages. Initiation means that he must be free from all kinds of sinful activities. These four principles, the pillars of sinful activities, are four in number: illicit sex life, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. Striya suna panabhi(?). So automatically they give. All these boys and girls who are sitting here, you know that they have given up automatically. They have been able, by association with Krsna. It has become very practical and easy thing to give up all these four principles of sinful activities. Because without being pure, you cannot understand the Supreme Pure. God is the Supreme Pure. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, yesam anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam. Anyone who is completely free from the reaction of sinful life, yesam anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam. Now, how is it possible? If one is simply engaged in pious activities. The most pious activity is to be engaged in Krsna consciousness movement. Pure. Then these are the different stages. Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sango tato bhajana-kriya atha anartha-nivrttih syat. Anartha means things we do not want. Artificially we are practiced to things. Just like meat-eating. Meat-eating, we do not practice it from the beginning of our birth. Just after birth the child, the baby, requires little honey or little milk, not the meat. But afterwards, the parents or the guardians are teaching how to eat meat. This is not our human business. Human teeth is meant for eating fruits and grains. That is scientific. Our teeth is made in that way. So anyway, meat-eating, intoxication, illicit sex, as soon as one takes to Krsna consciousness movement, these four pillars of sinful life is immediately broken.

 

 

adau sraddha tatah sadhu-

sango tato bhajana-kriya

tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat

tato nistha (tato rucis)

 

As soon as one becomes free from all sinful activities, he becomes firmly convinced of God consciousness. That is called nistha. Tato nistha tato rucis. Then you taste, "Oh, it is so nice, Krsna consciousness." That tato nistha.

 

adau sraddha tatah sadhu-

sango 'tha bhajana-kriya

tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat

tato nistha tato rucis

athasaktis (tato bhavah)

 

Then asakti. That is Krsna is recommending there, that asakti means attachment. So this attachment comes after passing over so many different stages of devotional service. So Krsna's recommending mayy asaktah: you have to increase your attachment for Krsna, or God. So by practicing this process you come to the stage of asakti, mayy asakta-manah. Then your mind becomes completely attracted by Krsna. Tato bhavas, then ecstasy. Sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah. These are the different stages to develop your love for God, or Krsna."

HDGACBSP

 

INTRODUCTION

 

Srila Rupa Gosvami was the younger brother of Sri Sanatana Gosvami and was elder to Sri Vallabha, who was father of Sri Jiva Goswami. Sri Vallabh was subsequently known as Anupama. They were Karnata-Brahmanas by birth. Sri Jiva Gosvami, nephew of Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatana, gives a genealogical tree of their family at the end of his book Laghutosani.

 

It will, therefore, be worth while to explain here in a nutshell the transcendental significance of Mahabhava, which is identified with Sri Radha alone. The conception of Sri Radha is completely misconceived by most people. From the present state of utter self-forgetfulness of an individual soul, engrossed in the physical and mental tabernacles till its final freedom and attainment of Prema-Bhakti, there are different stages of gradual unfolding of the innate dormant nature of the soul, which it must undergo by way of spiritual practices before it can aspire to understand and relish the super -excellence of Sri Radha-Krsna-Prema.

 

These stages are (I) SRADDHA (II) SADHU-SANGA, (III)BHAJANA-KRIYA, (IV) ANARTHA-NIVRTTI, (V) NISTHA, (VI) RUCI, (VII) ASAKTI, (VIII) BHAVA, and (IX) PREMA.

 

Sri Rupa Goswami deals in this book, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu with the subject matter of PREMA starting form its lowest step of SRADDHA. From (I) Sraddha to (IV) Anartha nivrrti are steps of spiritual sadhana (practices) from utter bondage to the souls freedom from the clutches of the threefold deviating influences of Maya, the Deluding Energy of God. After self-realization, the soul develops in his or her spiritual practices from (V) Nistha to (IX) Prema, which is attainable even while the soul in not separated from his or her physical and mental, subtle, coverings.

 

PREMA can develop in the siddha-deha, alone, i.e. the supra mundane and eternally spiritual body of the pure soul or the finite self otherwise called Jiva-atma, as categorically different from the physical and mental associations into: (X) SNEHA, (XI) MANA, (XII) PRANAYA, (XIII) RAGA, (XIV) ANU-RAGA, (XV) BHAVA, and (XVI) MAHABHAVA (XV) Bhava is distinct from (VIII) Bhava-rati in the earlier stages of

 

Bhakti and spiritual practices till Prema is attained. The individual finite self or the Jiva-atma cannot, as stated above, attain Mahabhava. The conceptions about (I) Sraddha to (IX) Prema have been dealt with the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu by Srila Rupa Goswami, while Sri Rupa has elaborately explained the stages from (X) Sneha to (XVI) Mahabhava in his famous Ujjvala-Nilamani.

 

As there has been a lot of confused thinking amongst scholars both eastern and western, about the true nature of Bhakti in general, Prema in particular, and much more about Mahabhava, i.e. the supra-mundane Love-Sports of the Counter-Whole (Sri Radha) with the Predominating Original Whole (Sri Krsna)--the Absolute-Whole having projected Itself out into the second or Counter-Whole without losing the Original Whole

 

(Cf. Upanisad), and as these technical transcendental aspects of the unalloyed soul's eternal and ever progressive relations with the Supreme Being Sri Krsna have been wrongly identified in certain quarters with mundane and sensual love-dalliance, we propose to give here a sort explanatory note on each of the above mentioned sixteen stages of the souls progress to self-realization and God realization and the reciprocalrelationships that exist between God (Param-Atma) and the individual soul or finite self (Jiv-atma). In the glossary at the end of the book, these technical terms in Rasa-Sastra Literature will be explained and in the Text we shall retain the original Sanskrta expressions which cannot conveniently be rendered into English equivalents. For example, it is absolutely wrong to translate Prema as "love" or Mahabhava as "great sentiment". By such 'easy' translation, the whole purpose of the Works of Sri Rupa Goswami will be lost.

 

(Tridandi Swami Bhakti Hridaya Bon Maharaj

introduction to Bhakti-Rasamrta-Sindhu)

[Guest guest]

". . . Lord Krsna is worshiped by the gayatri mantra, and the specific mantra by which He is worshiped is called kama-gayatri. Vedic literatures explain that that sound vibration which can elevate one from mental concoction is called gayatri. The kama-gayatri mantra is composed of 24 1.2 syllables thus:

 

klim kama-devaya vidmahe

puspa-banaya dhimahi

tanno 'nangah pracodayat

 

This kama-gayatri is received from the spiritual master when the disciple is advanced in chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. In other words, this kama-gayatri mantra and samskara, or reformation of a perfect brahmana, are offered by the spiritual master when he sees that his disciple is advanced in spiritual knowledge. Even then, the kama-gayatri is not uttered under certain circumstances. In any case, the chanting of Hare Krsna is sufficient to elevate one to the highest spiritual platform.

In Brahma-samhita a nice description of the flute of Krsna is given: "When Krsna began to play on His flute, the sound vibration entered into the ear of Brahma as the Vedic mantra om" This om is composed of three letters--A, U, and M--and it describes our relationship with the Supreme Lord, our activities by which we can achieve the highest perfection of love and the actual position of love on the spiritual platform. When the sound vibration of Krsna's flute is expressed through the mouth of Brahma, it becomes gayatri. Thus by being influenced by the sound vibration of Krsna's flute, Brahma, the supreme creature and first living entity of this material world, was initiated as a brahmana. That Brahma was initiated as a brahmana by the flute of Krsna is confirmed by Srila Jiva Gosvami. When Brahma was enlightened by the gayatri mantra through Krsna's flute, he attained all Vedic knowledge. Acknowledging the benediction offered to him by Krsna, he became the original spiritual master of all living entities.

The word klim added to the gayatri mantra is explained in Brahma-samhita as the transcendental seed of love of Godhead, or the seed of the kama-gayatri. The object is Krsna, who is the ever green Cupid, and by utterance of klim mantra Krsna is worshiped. It is also stated in the Gopala-tapani Upanisad that when Krsna is spoken of as Cupid, one should not think of Him as the Cupid of this material world. As already explained, Vrndavana is the spiritual abode of Krsna, and the word Cupid is also spiritual and transcendental. One should not take the material Cupid and Krsna to be on the same level. The material Cupid represents the attraction of the external flesh and body, but the spiritual Cupid is the attraction by which the Supersoul attracts the individual soul. Actually lust and sex are there in spiritual life, but when the spirit soul is embodied in material elements, that spiritual urge is expressed through the material body and is therefore pervertedly reflected. When one actually becomes conversant in the science of Krsna consciousness, he can understand that his material desire for sex is abominable, whereas spiritual sex is desirable.

Spiritual sex is of two kinds: one in accordance with the constitutional position of the self and the other in accordance with the object. When one understands the truth about this life but is not completely cleansed of material contamination, he is not factually situated in the transcendental abode, Vrndavana, although he may understand spiritual life. When, however, one becomes free from the sex urges of the material body, he can actually attain the supreme abode of Vrndavana. When one is so situated, he can utter the kama-gayatri and kama-bija mantra.

 

TLC Ch. 31

HDGACBSP

[Guest guest]

 

. . . We can see this to be true from our own experience. How many of us and how many people do we know who have been initiated into chanting Gayatri mantras, the mahamantra, or any number of mantras? How many of those are actually self realized souls due to chanting those mantras for years on end? How many have entered into a direct relationship with Sri Radha Krishna due to those mantras?

This is easily explained by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his four essays that illuminate Srila Rupa Gosvami's Bhakti-rsamrta-sindhu, Bhakti-tattva-viveka.

The Thakura writes:

 

 

"(1) The svar.pa-jnana or intrinsic knowledge concerning the sadhaka (the practitioner), sadhana (the practice) and sadhya (the object of achievement) is nondifferent from the svarupa of suddha-bhakti. When such svarupa-jnana has not yet arisen within a sadhaka but the desire to cross over the ocean of material existence has come within him, then whatever symptoms of bhakti which are visible in him in that condition are merely bhakti-abhasa. This bhakti-abhasa transforms into suddha-bhakti when one obtains svarupa-jnana . Even for Vaisnavas who are duly initiated into the genuine sampradaya the vastu-prabha., or illumination of one’s eternal identity arising from their diksa.-mantra which they received from their diksa-guru, won’t appear until they receive this svarupa-jnana by the mercy of a siksa-guru. Due to ignorance of svarupa-jnana, svarupa-siddha.-bhakti remains covered and hence only bhakti-abhasa is visible. [/b}

 

. . . By the careful analysis of the words of the scriptures it isunderstood that by the influence of association with pure devotees chaya.-bhakti-abhasa transforms into suddha-bhakti."

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Chapter 2 Bhakti-tattva-viveka

 

Sectarian considerations, institutional loyalty mistaken for bhakti, and an unfortunate lack of sukrti often prevent duly initiated devotees from receiving the mercy and guidance of any siksa guru. As a result their realization of the ista-devas (worshpable deities) of the mantras they received is delayed.

 

Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja has given a wonderful explanation of the brahma gayatri mantra. Other gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas have also extended their mercy to the devotee community in this regard. Some can accept and others not. What can be done?

 

Sadhu sanga is the key to advancement in bhakti. His Divine Grace has written in the Cc.

 

"It should be understood that a madhyama-adhikari, a second-class devotee, is fully convinced of Krsna consciousness but cannot support his convictions with sastric reference. A neophyte may fall down by associating with nondevotees because he is not firmly convinced and strongly situated. The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras AND associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress. . . . "

 

(Madhya 22.71 The Process of Devotional Service)

[Guest guest]

Even for Vaisnavas who are duly initiated into the genuine sampradaya the vastu-prabha., or illumination of one’s eternal identity arising from their diksa.-mantra which they received from their diksa-guru, won’t appear until they receive this svarupa-jnana by the mercy of a siksa-guru. Due to ignorance of svarupa-jnana, svarupa-siddha.-bhakti remains covered and hence only bhakti-abhasa is visible.

 

SBT

[shiva]

guest you wrote:

 

 

Better to study the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami under the guidance of a self realized soul, and then there is no need to speculate like this about how Brahmaji achieved perfection, and what path we need to follow to attain similar success. Bhakti-yoga is scientificaly explain by Srila Rupa as a gradual process of practice and steady progress under the instructions of and in sadhu-sanga.

I didn't speculate. I repeated what you quoted from Brahma Samhita. Before I go on; it is difficult to converse with people if they refuse to give themselves a name, too many people use "guest". If you can take the time to copy and paste volumes of irrelevant material then why be so lazy about including a name, any name, so as to make it easy to know which "guest" is which?

 

Maybe you could explain to me what relevance your numerous posts had to do with what I wrote?

[Guest guest]

You can purchase an alarm clock in Vrndavana at most stores that chants the

brahma gayatri for about 250 rupees. It is written like grafiti all over South India. Many children know how to sing it like a nursery rhyme. However for said mantra to have potency it must be received through a bona fide sampradaya, and from the lips of sad guru. Otherwise it will spend like counterfeit money. It may look genuine but it has no real purchasing power.

 

sampradaya vihinas ye mantras te nisphala matah

[Guest guest]

 

guest you wrote:

 

 

 

I didn't speculate. I repeated what you quoted from Brahma Samhita. Before I go on; it is difficult to converse with people if they refuse to give themselves a name, too many people use "guest". If you can take the time to copy and paste volumes of irrelevant material then why be so lazy about including a name, any name, so as to make it easy to know which "guest" is which?

 

Maybe you could explain to me what relevance your numerous posts had to do with what I wrote?

You repeat quotes from shastra and then come to your own conclusions all the time, and have done so on many internet forums consistantly. You inquired how any mantra can yield the fruit of genuine transcendental realization. This cannot be discussed without a clear understanding of the mercy of the diksa and siksa gurus. Their krpa has everything to do with the effectiveness of chanting the sampradaya gayatri mantras, as given to our line by Gopal Guru Gosvami in Jagannatha Puri, during the time of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

[theist]

guest-siddhanta,

 

Perhaps you could make your answers more concise and offer the detailed study course a little later on. We often forget this is a discussion board and not a home study program.

[Guest guest]

I will try my best.

[shiva]

 

This cannot be discussed without a clear understanding of the mercy of the diksa and siksa gurus. Their krpa has everything to do with the effectiveness of chanting the sampradaya gayatri mantras, as given to our line by Gopal Guru Gosvami in Jagannatha Puri, during the time of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

What do you mean by "their krpa"?

[Guest guest]

 

What do you mean by "their krpa"?

Krpa means mercy.

 

"Laghu" means material things. You are associating with material poets, material politicians, material wealthy persons and material learned persons. They are laghus. When you associate with a sadhu and get his krpa then automatically the taste will be bitter and you will no longer like to associate with laghus. You should associate with a real sadhu. Sadhu-krpa, the mercy of a sadhu, is powerful. It is a most important thing. It is said, vaisnava-krpaya tara sarva-siddhi --- If you can get the mercy of a vaisnava sadhu then you will achieve all perfection. Moreover, it must be with a real sadhu, a sadhu in the true sense of the term. Not a hypocrite or bogus sadhu or kali-cela! They are only posing like sadhu. If a genuine sadhu cast his merciful glance on you, then you have it! Sadhu-sanga is most important, most important, most important. One should develop greed for such a type of sadhu-sanga. Don't resist such greed. You are greedy for material accumulations. That is your enemy. That will lead you to hell. Now become greedy for this, to have such sadhu-sanga. "How can I get it, how can I get it?" Develop this greed. It should not be resisted. It is the only thing needed."

 

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

[shiva]

 

Krpa means mercy.

 

"Laghu" means material things. You are associating with material poets, material politicians, material wealthy persons and material learned persons. They are laghus. When you associate with a sadhu and get his krpa then automatically the taste will be bitter and you will no longer like to associate with laghus. You should associate with a real sadhu. Sadhu-krpa, the mercy of a sadhu, is powerful. It is a most important thing. It is said, vaisnava-krpaya tara sarva-siddhi --- If you can get the mercy of a vaisnava sadhu then you will achieve all perfection. Moreover, it must be with a real sadhu, a sadhu in the true sense of the term. Not a hypocrite or bogus sadhu or kali-cela! They are only posing like sadhu. If a genuine sadhu cast his merciful glance on you, then you have it! Sadhu-sanga is most important, most important, most important. One should develop greed for such a type of sadhu-sanga. Don't resist such greed. You are greedy for material accumulations. That is your enemy. That will lead you to hell. Now become greedy for this, to have such sadhu-sanga. "How can I get it, how can I get it?" Develop this greed. It should not be resisted. It is the only thing needed."

 

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

Guest are you siddhanta from the previous post? If not please give yourself a name, if so please use your name.

 

Using that quote in answering my question is like answering this question "What is your gift to me?" with "My gift is a great gift".

 

But since I don't know who is who, I can't decide if the answer was from whom I asked or from someone else.

[Guest guest]

 

What do you mean by "their krpa"?

TEXT 45

guru krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane

guru-rupe krsna krpa karena bhakta-gane

 

SYNONYMS

guru--the spiritual master; krsna-rupa--as good as Krsna; hana--is; sastrera--of revealed scriptures; pramane--by the evidence; guru-rupe--in the form of the spiritual master; krsna--Lord Sri Krsna; krpa--mercy; karena--distributes; bhakta-gane--unto His devotees.

 

TRANSLATION

According to the deliberate opinion of all revealed scriptures, the spiritual master is nondifferent from Krsna. Lord Krsna in the form of the spiritual master delivers His devotees.

 

PURPORT

The relationship of a disciple with his spiritual master is as good as his relationship with the Supreme Lord. A spiritual master always represents himself as the humblest servitor of the Personality of Godhead, but the disciple must look upon him as the manifested representation of Godhead.

Cc. Adi 1.45

There are too many slokas in too many shastras on this point that could be offered for examination. This one is the tip of the iceberg.

[shiva]

How about answering in your own words what you meant by:

 

 

This cannot be discussed without a clear understanding of the mercy of the diksa and siksa gurus. Their krpa has everything to do with the effectiveness of chanting

If you have that mercy please share your realization

[Guest guest]

 

Guest are you siddhanta from the previous post? If not please give yourself a name, if so please use your name.

 

Using that quote in answering my question is like answering this question "What is your gift to me?" with "My gift is a great gift".

 

But since I don't know who is who, I can't decide if the answer was from whom I asked or from someone else.

Sorry I forgot to type in my name. You don't get Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's point and I don't get yours. Krpa means mercy, and the mercy of Sri guru is a limitless topic that requires an acceptance of Sri Krsna's Bg. 4.34, as the basis of practicing Krsna Consciousness "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth." How will any mantra have the desired purificatory effect on the heart of a conditioned soul without such process? You can't cook foodstuffs without all the ingredients, bhoga, fuel, fire and a pot. You can't get the full benefit of any mantra without hearing it from the lips of sad guru, and receiving his mercy by dint of your sincere service and submissive inquiries.

[shiva]

I understood what GG Swami wrote, but it didn't answer the question I aksed of you. You said that the mantra is dependent on the mercy of a guru, Can you explain what that mercy is? No need to search for long quotes, just tell me what it means to you, that will suffice.

[Guest guest]

 

How about answering in your own words what you meant by:

If you have that mercy please share your realization

Sharing realization and "(3) opening one's mind to the devotees " is only reccomended and/or possible when "there is a dealing of priti, or love in intimate dealings." My realization is that internet forums are simply too contentious for such exchanges. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura talks about this point very nicely in the 8th chapter of his book Jaiva Dharma.

 

Spiritual association means to meet together for the purpose of spiritual advancement, to discuss topics of eternal truth, and to render reciprocal service and welfare that awakens one’s devotional sentiments. Upeksa means avoiding the association of people with whom such types of exchange are not possible.

 

When an inimical person who has adopted discordant or inconsistent opinions hears glorification of suddha-bhakti or virtuous instructions regarding bhakti, he will immediately retort with some futile argument which is not beneficial for you or for him. One should avoid such fruitless arguments, and interact with such people only as far as necessary in routine social dealings. One may think that one should include inimical people among the ignorant, and therefore bestow mercy upon them, but if one does so, one will not help them and will only harm oneself. One should be benevolent, but with caution.

 

 

SBT

Jaiva Dharma Ch. 8

[Guest guest]

 

I understood what GG Swami wrote, but it didn't answer the question I aksed of you. You said that the mantra is dependent on the mercy of a guru, Can you explain what that mercy is? No need to search for long quotes, just tell me what it means to you, that will suffice.

The only way I can explain krpa is that such mercy is measured in your own heart by how much you have become attached to chanting the maha mantra, associating with sadhus, exchanging with other devotees according to Srila Rupa Gosvami's guidelines,and rendering devotional service accompanied by devotional practices. Jnana is one thing and vijnana another.

Sorry I can't continue our exchange, but I am pressed for time and have to cook in preparation for a nama hatta program here tonight.

[shiva]

 

The only way I can explain krpa is that such mercy is measured in your own heart by how much you have become attached to chanting the maha mantra, associating with sadhus, exchanging with other devotees according to Srila Rupa Gosvami's guidelines,and rendering devotional service accompanied by devotional practices. Jnana is one thing and vijnana another.

Sorry I can't continue our exchange, but I am pressed for time and have to cook in preparation for a nama hatta program here tonight.

 

Your previous post to that one was a bizarre one to say the least. You say that everything is dependent on the "krpa of the guru" but apparently you have a hard time describing what that krpa is.

 

You wrote:

 

 

You inquired how any mantra can yield the fruit of genuine transcendental realization. This cannot be discussed without a clear understanding of the mercy of the diksa and siksa gurus. Their krpa has everything to do with the effectiveness of chanting the sampradaya gayatri mantras,

First off I didn't "inquire how any mantra can yield the fruit of genuine transcendental realization". What I wrote was this:

 

 

It appears that the knowledge that the mantra gives is limited, it is an introduction to the highest truth. A mantra of 24 syllables is limited in the amount of knowledge it can give. The words of the Kama Gayatri point one towards madhurya rasa, by hearing that mantra Brahma became awakened towards the ultimate truth of the Vedas final conclusion. In order for one to become well acquainted with the highest truth there must be a much deeper level of self realization and acquisition of knowledge.

 

So I still have to wonder how a mantra can give:

 

"all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna"

 

It would appear to me that the amount of divya jnana mentioned above seems to be something which is not given by any mantra. Brahma had to search within himself for some time to become well acquainted with the ocean of truth after reception of the gayatri. We are similar to Brahma in that although a mantra can awaken us to the highest truth to some degree, it will take searching within to have the highest truth revealed to us.

Then you said we cannot discuss about what I wrote unless we have a "clear understanding of the mercy of the diksa and siksa gurus". I asked you what you meant by "mercy". You then quoted a bunch of stuff which really didn't answer the question. Then I asked you to put it in your own words. You then tell me you can't do that because I don't deserve your holy words or something.

 

Well that's your right. No one can force the mercy from you. For me the point I was making still stands. The mantra does not convey an unlimited amount of knowledge. It is a tool for advancement in self realization. The knowledge we need to come close to Sri Radha Krishna comes from guru, sastra, sadhu and from experience. For the closest relationship there is no substitute for experience, most especially the experience of our own internal search for our relationship with Radha Krishna. We look for God in books, in mantras, in others, and all of that is good and is beneficial and is even necessary. But for discovering and entering into your actual eternal relationship with Radha Krishna, in this life, there is only one way for that to happen, that is from meeting them within your own being and your own mind.

 

manasa vacasa drishtya

grihyate 'nyair apindriyaih

aham eva na matto 'nyad

iti budhyadhvam anjasa

 

Within this world, whatever is perceived by the mind, speech, eyes or other senses is Me alone and nothing besides Me. All of you please understand this by a straightforward analysis of the facts. (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.13.24)

 

 

This is the quote from Srila Narayana Maharaja which I cited originally:

 

 

The gayatri-mantra gives all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna

The amount of knowledge covered by "divya-jnana, Krsna tattva and jiva tattva" is enormous. The gayatri mantra refers to madhurya rasa but it doesn't give much actual information. Anyone can have an actual personal relationship with Sri Radha Krishna without ever once chanting a gayatri mantra, and also you can chant the gayatri mantra for years on end and still be without an actual personal relationship with Sri Radha Krishna.

 

The krpa of the guru is speech or writing from the guru for your benefit. The guru is a via medium for the Lord who is really the source and substance of that krpa from the guru. What is the nature of those words, that krpa? They have the power of giving the listener insight and awareness into transcendental knowledge and truth. The Lord is revealed through the words of the guru, that is the krpa of the guru. The guru is like a radio tuned into the frequency wherefrom the Lord is broadcasting. For most people they have no ability to understand the guru, their hearing ability is unable to comprehend the broadcasts from Vaikuntha. Due to good karma some people can understand the words of the guru and take to the path of bhakti. Gradually, for most, their ability to hear becomes better and better. At first they hear the guru without understanding where the words are coming from, they think the guru is smart or has done a lot of reading and hearing. As they progress they understand that the guru is a medium, a radio for tuning into God. From then on they don't really see the guru as being the person who is revealing or teaching knowledge. Instead they see the guru as vehicle for the Lord. Thats why we are told a bona fide spiritual master is considered to be non diferent from Sri Krishna. The mercy of the guru is the presence of the Lord manifesting by the Lord through the guru. For our benefit the Lord appears through the words of the guru, if our hearing is good we can hear the Lord speak.

[Guest guest]

Believe what you will. The words of our acaryas speak for themselves, and their evaluations of what the brahma gayatri and kama gayatri and other mantras mean, accomplish and what ersults they yield have more weight than your intellectualization of the topic. BTW under whose guidance do you practice KC?