Lord Ramachandra Prays To Lord Siva?

[Shivam]

It was written in the Ramayana that Lord Rama along with Lord Hanuman prayed to Lord Shiv through the form of a Shivalinga. If Lord Rama prayed to Lord Shiv then why don't the devotees of ISKCON ??

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

They do pray to Lord Shiva. Since Lord Shiva is the greatest devotee of Lord Narayana (vaishnavanam yatha shambhu), they pray to Lord Shiva to grant them Vishnu bhakti.

[Guest guest]

from lecture on Lord Shiva's position (purebhakti.com)

 

 

Ramesvara Mahadeva

 

When Sri Ramacandra was making the bridge to Lanka, he established a Siva-linga (deity form of Siva) called Ramesvara. All the common people began glorifying Lord Siva, shouting, “Ramesvara ki jaya! You are Rama’s isvara: you are the lord of Rama.” The demigods were unsatisfied by this and announced through an arial voice, “Ramas ca asau isvarah: Rama is God, and Sankara is also God; they are the same.” Hearing this, the Siva-linga broke. Lord Siva emerged from the linga and told them all, “You are all foolish; you do not know my tattva, the established truths regarding my identity. Rama is my beloved and my God, and that is why I am called Ramesvara.”

 

-Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Yes both of them payed obeisances to each other as Gods and beloved.

;-)

 

 

 

from lecture on Lord Shiva's position (purebhakti.com)

 

 

Ramesvara Mahadeva

 

When Sri Ramacandra was making the bridge to Lanka, he established a Siva-linga (deity form of Siva) called Ramesvara. All the common people began glorifying Lord Siva, shouting, “Ramesvara ki jaya! You are Rama’s isvara: you are the lord of Rama.” The demigods were unsatisfied by this and announced through an arial voice, “Ramas ca asau isvarah: Rama is God, and Sankara is also God; they are the same.” Hearing this, the Siva-linga broke. Lord Siva emerged from the linga and told them all, “You are all foolish; you do not know my tattva, the established truths regarding my identity. Rama is my beloved and my God, and that is why I am called Ramesvara.”

 

-Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada taught his disciples that prior to beginning the mahamantra, we chant:

 

Bhaja Sri Krsna Chaitanya, Prabhu Nityananda

Sri Adwaita, Gadadhar, Srivas adi goura bhaktivrnda

 

Sri Adwaita, regarded as mahaVisnu by some, is also regarded as Lord Siva, who has appeared with Lord Chaitanya to assist with the samkirtana movement. Lord Siva is the greatest Vaisnava, and is prominant in the science of bhakti yoga. His teachings are authoritive, and he is considered the greatest authority.

 

NOD describes the qualities of Krsna. We see that the person occupying the post of Lord Brahma has 78 % of these qualities. Lord Siva is even greater than Lord Brahma in that He has 84% of these qualities. (of Visnu Tattwa, Lord Narayana has 91% and Lord Dwarkadhisa has 96%. Lord Krsna in his Gokula Pastimes is 100%, and these names include Gopala, Govinda, Syamasundara, Ramana, Gopinatha, Krsna, Gokulananda, Yasodananda, Nandanandana, Damodhara, all these wonderful names. I have heard that incarnations like Lord Rama are equal to Lord Dwarkadhisa.) Jiva atma individuals are capable of being equal to Lord Brahma, 78%. No Jiva can become equal to Lord Sive, so he can be correctly be called the Supreme Person.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Shivam]

[Shivam]

Is that picture accepted by Srila Prabhupada or the Vaisnavas?

 

Hare Krsna

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The general story is there in Ramayana, though the picture is someone's conception of the story. Ramachandra called all the Rishis to assemble at Ramesvara as he wanted to install a Shiva linga there.

[vrajavasi]

Radhe Krishna,

 

To me it is not material as to whether lord Rama worshipped Lord Shiva or Lord shiva worshipped Lord Rama. Whom u r worshipping.

 

I am worshipping Lord Krishna and that is the beginning and that is the end. These type of controversial issues and engaging urself in those - i am sorry if i am wrong - deviates ur concentration of ur bhakthi. These, i humbly feel would do no good either for a shiva bhaktha or for a rama bhaktha.

 

Radhe krishna

[Guest guest]

 

Radhe Krishna,

 

To me it is not material as to whether lord Rama worshipped Lord Shiva or Lord shiva worshipped Lord Rama. Whom u r worshipping.

 

I am worshipping Lord Krishna and that is the beginning and that is the end. These type of controversial issues and engaging urself in those - i am sorry if i am wrong - deviates ur concentration of ur bhakthi. These, i humbly feel would do no good either for a shiva bhaktha or for a rama bhaktha.

 

Radhe krishna

 

Agreed. As someone who is a Ram, Krsna and Shiva Bhakta it is very disheartening to see people engaging in such silly arguments/topics.

[Guest guest]

 

Is that picture accepted by Srila Prabhupada or the Vaisnavas?

 

Hare Krsna

 

It is just a pictoral representation. Why do you ask the question?

[Shivam]

 

It is just a pictoral representation. Why do you ask the question?

 

I asked that question because I have never seen that picture in a Hare Krsna Temple before.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

You would have to see what the exact description in Ramayana is. For example Ramcharitmanas doesn't mention any details of this picture. It just says Rama called the rishis and requested they install a Shiva linga there. ISKCON artists create paintings based on scripture, thus it is possible that the statements of Valmiki Ramayana don't state exactly what is being shown in this picture. I don't have a copy of Valmiki Ramayana here now, so I can't check this.

 

But from having read Ramayana, Ramcharitmanas, and other scriptures, I can tell you this picture is not bonafide, as Mahadeva would not come to bless Rama in this formal manner, but would be filled with param bhavam to see His worshippable Lord. Since it is a picture from Ramayana, the descriptions of Shiva being the topmost devotee of Vishnu must be accepted.

[vrajavasi]

Radhe Krishna,jndasji, Radhe krishna, the yardstick u r depending for deciding upon the issue are vaishnava granthas where we would find Lord shiva as parama vaishnava. There are shaiva granthas (shaiva puranas composed by veda vyasa himself) wherein one would find vishnu and incarnations of vishnu worshipping lord shiva.This picture is as genuine from the point of view and logic of a shaiva as it is ingenuine from the point of view and logic of vaishnava. But this discussion in no way helps to motivate shiva bhakthi or vishnu bhakthi. sorry if i am sounding harsh. Let the picture be left to shaivas n lemme see my verses in Shrimad Bhagavatham.Radhe krishna

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The painting is a depiction from Ramayana, a vaishnava grantha, so naturally it is to be decided based on Vaishnava granthas.

[vrajavasi]

Radhe Krishna,

 

Ofcourse the event is among the line of events in Ramayana. But the beauty of Ashtadasa Puranas written by Vyasacharya is such that every purana is intertwined with each other. Gajendra Moksham and Vamana Avatharam is there in Shrimad Bhagavatham and also in Vishnu Puranam. Atleast these Upakhyanas are completely vaishnava upakhyanas. Sati Upakhyanam is from Shiva puranam. But u find Sathi Upakhyanam in Shrimad Bhagavatham also. Then because shri Rama is an incarnation of Shri Vishnu, reference could be find about Rama in the puranas also. In Navama skanda, shukacharya dedicated two chapters for Rama charitham in the skanda consisting of Raja vamsa varnana.

Whereas I completely agree with u about the interpretation from a vaishnava point of view, since a Vaishnavaite should and should only interpret every thing through Vaishnava granthas, I hope u would also appreciate the fact the same would be the case with shaivas.

As a krishna upasaka, we consider Lord shiva as the sarvottama vaishnava as prounounced by Lord in Shrimad Bhagavatham - "Vaishnavanam yatha Sambuhu" - I ofcourse can not view Lord shiva as otherwise.

In shaiva granthas - which u may have not come across as such - there are depictions of not only Shri Rama doing puja to Lord Shiva but even Lord Krishna is depicted as doing puja to Lord Shiva. This is because of the simple fact that the position they attach to Lord shiva. Like in Vaishnava sampradaya, Lord Vishnu is the supreme, in Shaiva sampradaya they consider Lord Shiva is the supreme. In Shaktha vidya - Hayagriva , an incarnation of Lord Vishnu is the is the foremost to have ever learnt and practiced shaktha vidya.

 

I am telling all this because what we are supposed concentrate on much in our chosen path - rather i would say the blessed path - because i feel i am into krishna bhakthi - not because as if i chosen it - but because of nirvyaja krupa of Radha krishna yugala - i am into it. Any and everything that would distract me from that would be a loss for me. Even this writing - it is an exposition of my ego - I understand. Now I should concentrate only on my Yugala Bhakthi.

 

Radhe Krishna

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I see nothing wrong with someone painting a picture from Shiva Purana or Skanda Purana. The only objection to this picture is that it is obviously a depiction from Ramayana, so one should base the painting on what is actually said there. Those who have read Tulasidas Ramayana and Valmiki Ramayana know the deep affection and love Mahadeva has for Ramachandra (and the other way also). I don't see that love being reflected in this painting, so the painter has not understood Ramayana. If his painting of Ramayana events are not in line with the real Ramayana, then we can't say his painting is accurate.

[sumedh]

Pranams

 

Jndas prabhuji, is there a reference to this incidence in Valmiki Ramayana? I have not seen any quote from Valmiki Ramayana mentioning this incidence rather elsewhere it is mentioned that this incidence does not appear in Valmiki Ramayana.

 

To the original poster:

This incidence is mentioned in Linga purana (and maybe others) and is explained in other puranas like varaha and kurma. In varaha purana (rudra-gita) Shiva seeks a boon from Lord Vishnu to be worshipped by Him in His incarnations. So this incidence should be seen as granting of the wish of His devotee similar to those of Devaki/Vasudeva, Arjuna etc.

[Guest guest]

the picture is inaccurate as ram was performing the puja before crossoing the bridge to rescue sita, therefore sita shouldn't be there

[A.Ravi sekhar]

all you foolish fellows,

 

God shiva is Lord for all,This is the basic of any veda or purana.

 

Parusurama or Rama or Krishna or Narashimha or Pandavas Or indra or Soma or Yama or any one else had the temples in India,where they worshipped God shiva.

 

In recent times,

These Vaishnavism started and they are explaing the older are tamasic vedas and older versions of veda are not having Sruthi or some thing else.

 

You people always do discussions and not get any thing.

 

 

First know what is avathar and why they needed .They needed for only Sthithi(poshana) .So all these avathars will come into the scene that the balancing Evil and Good powers.

Vishnu is doing his work.

 

If Vishnu is Supreme then why He was joined in Sagara Madhana along with all other gods and Demi Gods and Demons.Why Not God Shiva.

God Shiva orders and they will go for things.

 

First delete the bad wings or Ideas on God Shiva.

[Kyros]

The real reason why any Visnu-tattwa prays to Lord Shiva is written in the Padma Purana. Lord Kalki will follow that tradition in approximately 427,000 years.

 

Lord Rama is the Supreme Personality and Lord Shiva is the best of the Vaishnava's.

[ranjeetmore]

Lord Sadashiva is known as the Supreme Lord,who is eternal,Causeless,and an expansion of Godhead,Shankarsana.

 

This personality of Sadashiva is addressed as Bhagaavan Shankar.

 

Uma is indifferent from Him.

 

Although His abode is known as Shivaloka,it is considered as Vaikuntha by rasiks.

Just as Sriman Narayana is same as yet prays to Lord Ramacandra,so also does lord Shiva.

 

In srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura's words,"Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva embody the same Supreme Consciousness and are accepted as the same."

 

Yet Lord Shiva is always engaged in worshipping Sri KRsna as Gopesvara.

 

There are only three principles.

Brahm

Jeeva

Maya.

 

Lord Shambhu is NOT Jeeva.He is not MAya.

Thus He is identified as a Svamsa or abhinna amsa of Sri KRsna.

 

There is no offense whatsoever in saying that Lord Sambhu is equal to Lord Vishnu.Thus as Sri Krsna performs leelas to display that He's 'subordinate' to Sriman Narayana,so also He does the same with Sri Shankara.Also,as Ramacandra He worships Lord Shiva.

 

 

There's nothing shocking here.

 

Their love for each other is so intense that lord Shiva abandoned Uma for apparently commiting offenses against Sri Ramacandra.

 

What intelligence do we have to understand Them ?

[princegoutham]

Krishna is one of the greatest devotee of Lord shiva. As per mahabharata, krishna is believed to be the reincarnation of Narayan maharshi, who was also one of the greatest devotee of lord shiva. The Mahabharat and Shaiva puranas clearly says that Krishna was devoted to Lord shiva even in his past lives. Krishna explained 'Siva sahasranama' to yudhistara(Dharmaraja) and also told him how he got the supreme Advaita jnana (nondual knowledge) because of lord shiva. It was explained in Anushasan parva of mahabharat.

 

Rudra bhakthya thu krishnena jagat vyaptham mahathmana,

Tham prasadhya thadha devam bhadaryam kila bharatha.

Arthath priya harathwam cha sarva lokeshu vai yadhaa,

Prapthavaaneva rajendra suvarnaakshan maheswaraath.

Meaning:

The great Lord Krishna, due to his devotion to Supreme lord Rudra,Has spread all over the universe, Oh Bharatha, Oh king of kings,After making Lord Shiva pleased by his penance in Bhadrinath,He has attained the state of being more dear,Than all the worlds and all aspects of knowledge.

Yuge yuge thu krushnena thoshitho vai maheswara,

Bhakthya paramaya chaiva prathi sruthwa mahatmana.

Meaning :

Lord Maheshwara becomes pleased and happy yugas after yugas, by this Krishna who is devotee of Lord Shiva.

Krishna got several boons from lord shiva even in his past life as Narayana muni.

[princegoutham]

Essential Characteristics of supreme lord :

 

1) He should be source of all, protecter of all and destroyer as well.

 

2) he should ever possess the strength of godhead.

 

3) he should be the father of the universe

4) he should be the lord of all beings.

 

5)he should be blissful and undecaying.

 

6) He should pervade all things and all beings both in heavens and in earth ,through his lordship

7) none should overcome him.

 

8) he should be the 'mightest' of the mighty. ( not just simply powerful )

 

9) he should be the sovereign of entire universe.

 

10) he should have multiple forms. ( ie., forms of god)

 

11) He should be the heart of all gods(ie., all gods are just part and parcle of him only )

 

12 ) he should alone yieldth to no second.

 

13) He should be able to give liberation (moksha) from death cycle and grant immortality.

 

Now Let us note whether Our lord Rudra Possess such qualities.

Rudra is the supreme manifested form of absolute Brahman/parama purusha ( Sivam ). Rudra himself manifests as different Gods like Soma,agni,vayu.indra,prajapati,visnu,maruts,yama etc. These gods are all different aspects of Lord Rudra.

 

"Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the UNIVERSE'S FATHER. HIM GREAT AND LOFTY, BLISSFUL, imperishable(ACHYUTAM), LET US CALL ESPECIALLY AS THE SAGE IMPELS US". ( Rigveda 6:49:10 )

 

 

"To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the SELF-DEPENDENT GOD with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call. " ( Rigveda 7 :46: 1 )

 

"He(Rudra) through his lordship pervades in all things and beings on the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial power." ( Rig veda 7:46:2 )

 

 

We Worship Tryambaka(shiva), Who spreads Fragrance and Increases nourishment, May He LIBERATE (moksha) us, like the cucumber from its stem, from Mortal life, and give us Immorality.( Rig veda 7 :59 :12 )

 

 

LORD OF ALL BEINGS ART THOU IN GLORY, Rudra, armed with the thunder, MIGHTIEST OF THE MIGHTY. Transport us over trouble to well-being repel thou from us all assaults of mischief. ( Rig veda 2:33:3 )

 

 

"With firm limbs, MULTIFORM, the strong, the tawny adorns himself with bright gold decorations: THE STRENGTH OF GODHEAD NEVER DEPARTS FROM RUDRA, HIM WHO IS SOVEREIGN OF THE UNIVERSE, THE MIGHTY. "( RigVeda 2:33:9 )

 

 

Homage to him who haunteth the mountains, and to him who is in form of Çipivista.(visnu) ( Yajurveda iv. 5.5 f )

 

Homage to you(rudra) who is sparkling hearts of the gods ( Yajurveda iv. 5. 9 p )

 

The Rudra in the fire, in the waters, in the plants, the Rudra that hath entered all beings, to that Rudra be homage ( Yajurveda v. 5. 9. i )

 

 

Soma ( sa + uma ) ie., Along with Uma. :

This form of rudra is benificient or sattwa in nature. The form of soma is 'divine knowledge.' which satisfies the spiritual quest of all. hence it is identified with "Rasa or liquid". obviously, Gods like indra,visnu etc have more thirst for soma. infact, they are born out of soma only.Soma (Sa-Uma) is the father of heaven, earth, Vishnu, and Indra. Soma is the seed prolific for birth of Adityas and Vishnu. He is the highest heaven where Vak resides.

"Father of sacred chants, Soma flows onwards, the Father of the Earth, Father of the Celestial region: Father of Agni, the creator of Surya, the Father who gave birth to Indra and Vishnu" (Rig Veda.IX.96.5)

NOTE : SOMA ( an aspect of Rudra ) IS THE FATHER WHO BEGET INDRA, AGNI,SURYA AND VISHNU

 

" [O Soma!]Father and generator of the gods, the skillful, the Pillar of the Heavens (ie. Linga), and supporter of Earth. Rishi and Illuminated Sage, greatest of people, apart and wise, Ushana (Shukracharya) in knowledge" (Rig Veda .IX.87.2-3)

NOTE: SOMA IS THE FATHER OF GODS AND SUPPORTER OF HEAVENS AND EARTH.

 

Rig veda 1 : HYMN CLXIV. Visvedevas.

34 I ask thee of the earth's extremest limit, where is the centre of the world, I ask thee. I ask thee of the Stallion's seed prolific, I ask of highest heaven where Speech abideth.

35 This altar is the earth's extremest limit; this sacrifice of ours is the world's centre.THE STALLION'S SEED PROLIFIC IS THE SOMA; THIS BRAHMAN HIGHEST HEAVEN WHERE

SPEECH ABIDETH.

 

[Maharishi]

Aum Namah Shivaaya

 

Aum namo Mahaa-Mrityunjayaaya

 

Tatpurooshaaya vidmahe, Mahaadevaaya dhimahee, tanno Roodrah pracodayaat