Cows killed to make mridanga

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees please post this information to vaishnava websites .

 

Dear Devotees,

 

I am from India and have an export business where I ship out handicrafts, garments and all material related to devotional purposes to several temples. Also, I supply mrdangas to temples situated in the west.

 

I always wanted to know where the skin or the leather is procured from for the mrdanga manufacture.

 

This year My workers went personally to Mayapur and spoke to many mrdanga manufacturers and they were told that they procure it from a local Muslim agents who supplies cows' skin for making the mrdangas. They were also told that cows are slaughtered for making mrdanga skins. Calves are slaughtered for their skin as they gives excellent sound.

 

Devotees are supposed to protect cows but now we are indirectly involved in promoting cow slaughter in the name of manufacturing mrdangas for the promotion of NAMA SANKIRTANA. According to the scriptures, Mrdanga skin should be obtained from the skin of naturally dead cows and not by slaughtering them.

 

Every Gaudiya Vaishnava organization should see that their centers and followers get their mrdangas supplied in a proper way otherwise society and devotees would be a party to sin of slaughtering the cows and calves. The Gaudiya societies should have tie up with goshaals in their places and procure the skin from naturally dead cows.

 

I have made this report after a serious survey and there is no ulterior motives.

 

Yrs servant,

Mahendra das.

[Guest guest]

a lot if not most drumskins are artificial,even on newer mdrangas for sale but what you say is a timely reminder for our percussive prabhus,and drummers in general,i wont go into the ins and outs of artificial skins or other skins as regards playability haribol

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

All of the mridangas from Mayapur/West Bengal (which would make up most of the mridangas used in ISKCON temples in India) are made from cow skin. Devotees should look into this more thoroughly and find a solution.

[Guest guest]

But protecting cows intentionally for getting their skin to make mridangas after they die a natutral death is also a sin ?

 

or is there any other alternative ? Is it possible to use some other skin for mridangas ?

[Guest guest]

Big deal! Cows are killed in the dairy industry and most devotees take milk products!

[Guest guest]

A devotee friend of mine, in 1974, had this dilemma as well, as he was making fibreglas mrdangas and was perplexed about the heads (skins for all the non-hand-drummers out there.) Srila Prabhupada commissioned this work to be performed, so this devotee put the question to srila prabhupada, "where do we get the skins?" Srila Prabhupada gave a practical answer saying "Is there suddenly a shortage of slaughterhouses in your country?"

 

Srila Prabhupada did not support the slaughter industry, but being very practical, as well as merciful, made concessions to give the already slaughtered cows facility for devotional service. Many will say this is hypocritical, but I call it practical, because this is kali yuga, and even the lettuce is slaughtered mercilessly to please the tongue.

 

And, muslims have a very careful respect for their animal slaughter. The hindu may not agree, but it is a far cry from the western world that have no policy at all other than to kill unnecessarily to satisfy the tongue.

 

My own opinion is that one should not use cow skins, rather goats or sheep, killed respectfully by muslim priests or by hindus who also slaughter goats and sheep. These skins are just as resonate as cow skins, just take your rings off when you play so the heads are not damaged. To use petro-chemical, polyester stuff is just as harmful if not worse, and the sound comparison is the difference between a toy drum and a real one.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Yegan]

Hari bol,

 

This question has been raised before in another forum, plz check here.

 

Below are two of my previous posts expressing my own opinion on this matter.

 

Post 1

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by jndas

For others who are interested, generally when a cow dies a natural death it is put in the ganga or burried (if the ganga is not nearby). For the purpose of Bhagavan's seva the skin is sometimes taken from some cows to make mridangas to be used in nama sankirtana. I would not advise anyone to utilize anything from the dead body of a cow for personal use (as medicine). Cows should be worshipped and respected as they are our mother and the mother of the devas. When our mother's die we don't utilize their body for medicine, as that would be disrepectful to the individual.

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What if we can have an altenative? What i mean is instead of using the skin of a cow to make mridangas, can there be another material for substitution? If there is a substitution to the cow skin, should we use it or should we stick to the cow skin?

 

BY using the cow's skin in mridangas, I presume in a way the cow is rendering service to the lord, but then would you have used the skin of your own mother in service of the lord(assuming human skin can be used as leather)?

 

Personally if I had a choice I would not use the skin of cow even in mridangas, but instead would use an alternative material. However if in the scriptures it is mentioned that we can safely use the skin of cow for service to the lord, then yes.

 

Apologies if I have offended anyone on this issue. Cow is extremely sacred and is a very sensitive issue to discuss.

 

Jai Govinda

 

 

Post 2

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by riih.qarojamahoamaan

Then it is most logical to assume that when a cow dies a natural death, the best thing to do is to eat that cow.

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I can follow your line of thinking, and your question has a logical approach.

But as Jndas has mentioned, you CANNOT consume the fresh of cow even after the latter has met a natural death. Cow is considered as your very own mother in Sanatan Dharma. And as such if you are a hindu you should NEVER EVER consume cow's fresh even if you are forced to so or if the cow met with a natural death.

Think about it, would you eat your own mother after she died? That would be considered cannibalism and complete disrespect if u do, in the same approach, eating cow is considered cannibalism and complete disrespect.

 

More importantly, krishna loves cows, and he said they are worshipable. Govinda is the protector of cows. One cannot pray to Govinda and at the same time eat cow, that is hypocrite.

So eating cow is abominable in whichever form or state.

 

Jai Govinda

[vijay]

Pusta Krsna: What we've been doing with the dead cows is burying them, there's no..., everything's wasted. Srila Prabhupada is proposing that why not the butcher take, we give free, he simply returns us the skin of the cow, and with the cow hide we properly tan it, we can make mrdanga heads for the khol, and shoes, straps, whatever may be needed. The idea being that in the Western countries especially, people are accustomed to eating animals, animal flesh. So we have no objection.

Prabhupada: Beef, especially beef.

Pusta Krsna: Especially cows and beef. So we have no objection, but they should at least wait until it dies naturally. What is the harm? They still get the same thing, and one devotee, Kirtanananda, I think, was saying that when they slaughter an animal even in the slaughterhouse, it has to sit some time, some number of days before they distribute it. So I proposed that the Westerners, they consider that this is superstitious, this protection of the cow. Prabhupada says Why superstitious? The cow is providing milk. Every child knows that he's getting milk from the cow, the cow is mother. So why in the old age we should slaughter mother? Is this a good argument that like, for example, they say, in India, how so many people are starving, why don't they eat the cows? So Prabhupada proposed that "If you're starving, does it mean that you eat your mother and father?"

Prabhupada: If you want to eat, let the father and mother die, then eat. (laughter) Who has objection?

Pusta Krsna: It's so reasonable. At least, Prabhupada says, for the saner section, they will accept.

Hari-sauri: The thing is, people are mad after meat.

Prabhupada: Madman...

Pusta Krsna: But they still get it.

Prabhupada: But he'll get meat.

Hari-sauri: But then their argument is that if we don't have big, big slaughterhouses, then there won't be enough supply.

Prabhupada: No why should...? After all, the animal is going to die. It is not for..., he's permanently. Why should you kill?

Pusta Krsna: But they kill the animal first in the slaughterhouse and then do whatever they have to do.

Dhrstadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is...

Prabhupada: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.

Dhrstadyumna: But the old flesh is not...

Prabhupada: Anyway, you do not..., you do whatever you like. So at least you can take free of charges a dead cow from us, and you can give us only the skin, and you eat.

Dhrstadyumna: This should be the system.

Pusta Krsna: It's so reasonable.

Prabhupada: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Pusta Krsna: Even if people would do this, it would be such an advancement.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mrdanga making. So give us the skin. That's all.

Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge.

Hari-sauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Krsna consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse...

Prabhupada: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything."

Dhrstadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over.

Hari-sauri: Yes, the proposition is very good, that's a fact.

Prabhupada: First of all, you try one butcher, that "Why not make this advantage?" How does he react, see.

Dhrstadyumna: Yes, that he will not pay anything...

Prabhupada: He's not going to pay us. You simply take it and sell it.

Pusta Krsna: They sell meat..., for one pound of meat, they can get sometimes two dollars, three dollars, four dollars. So much money...

Dhrstadyumna: But the government has inspectors, a team of inspectors. No meat can be sold unless it is inspected, and then they want to examine the conditions.

Prabhupada: So let them inspect. What is the wrong there? It should be open. If the inspection, there is nothing wrong, then they can do this business.

Hari-sauri: Generally, though, their inspection is when the animal is alive, they check to see that he has no disease. Then they can be killed. But if an animal dies naturally, then generally it is to be supposed that it dies from some malfunction within the body, that there may be some diseases or whatever. So then...

Prabhupada: That is artificial.

Hari-sauri: But that is their rules and regulations they have.

Prabhupada: They'll change. When they, by chemical analysis, they don't find any fault, then they can change. From economic point of view, why this body should be wasted? Let it be utilized. Those that are eating, let them eat. And economic point of view, we save the skin. We require it for our purpose. That is the agreement. After all, we require the skin for our khol making.

Dhrstadyumna: For the farm straps?

Pusta Krsna: Shoes, slippers, so many things. I think Kirtanananda Swami has done that with some of the cows. They have taken the hide for making things, straps.

Hari-sauri: They're not doing it now, though.

Prabhupada: But we should not do it ourselves.

Dhrstadyumna: Yes, that's for the mucis.

Prabhupada: That is not our business.

Dhrstadyumna: Give it to the butcher. He will get the skin and give it to us.

Prabhupada: Not that everything we have to do. No. That will deteriorate. Those who are doing, let it be done by them.

Hari-sauri: It seems like it will be a long time before we can implement something like that.

Prabhupada: I am proposing, think over it. Because it is a fact that in spite our vigorous propaganda, we cannot stop meat-eating. That is not possible. People will eat. So those who are eating, let us make some arrangement that "You take it free of charges." From economic point of view, they get it free. They can make good profit. And we are interested with the skin. So why not make some arrangement? It is practical.

Hari-sauri: That's very good.

Prabhupada: Instead of the thing being wasted for nothing, let us devise some means, that you are eating, you can eat. And we want the skin, let us give him. What is the wrong there?

Pusta Krsna: Perfect economics.

Prabhupada: Yes. We require the skin, that's a fact. And you want to eat, all right, eat.

Pusta Krsna: Could such a thing be done today in India also?

Prabhupada: No, why it will be done? Everywhere it should be. That is the... Who does not eat meat? First of all, you try this. From economic point of view, why one thing should be wasted?

Dhrstadyumna: Practical preaching.

Hari-sauri: We can't stop meat-eating, but we can stop the unnecessary slaughter of animals.

Pusta Krsna: That would be a great step forward.

Prabhupada: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications--brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra and candala. Candalas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the candala class, they eat.

Pusta Krsna: Even cows, cow flesh.

Prabhupada: Dead. This cow killing has been introduced by these Britishers.

Dhrstadyumna: Christian.

Prabhupada: Christians.

Hari-sauri: Even they're exporting beef from India.

Prabhupada: Yes. They can do anything, take the dead cows. I do not know if there is any chemical composition change. They are eating so many dead animals. Take for fish. The fish is never killed alive, because as soon as you take it out from water, it is dead, after few minutes.

Pusta Krsna: And they don't consider whether it's a young fish or an old fish.

Dhrstadyumna: If that was the system, people will not get sick. They will not get sick from eating old animals.

Prabhupada: No, no. This is all wrong conception.

Dhrstadyumna: They will say..., simply think the taste there is too tough, the skin may be older.

Prabhupada: They are eating so many rotten things.

Dhrstadyumna: Yes. And they are burning it, cooking it.

Prabhupada: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup?

Pusta Krsna: Clam chowder? So many things.

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

And, muslims have a very careful respect for their animal slaughter.

There was some report done on this in India, and it showed that cows in Kerala are killed by using rusty hammers to smash their heads, many times half killing them or just injuring them till the job gets finished. This is done by Muslims, so I would not accept the above statement as reality of how it actually happens.

[Gaea]

the mridangas at the Watford Temple are all made of some aritifcial stuff - the sound is not as good as skin but only marginally so. Maybe we should look to that alternative.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunate, Sriman Jahnava nitai das, that some muslims have such lack of respect. I know a fine muslim who has a deli, and provides lamb and goats for his customers. In fact, there is a movement in WA state prisons where muslims are boycotting meat served them, wanting only meat products that are respectfully and prayerfully rendered by priests.

 

The process described remind me of Srila Prabhupadas descriptions of those who slaughter goats according to vedic ritual. This is why I made the point. There is "agreement" with the animal that in course of using his body for sacrtifice, that the priest agrees to take such a form to be slaughtered in the same manner.

 

The "hammer" method is horrendous, but I think, like all religious practices, that perversion of the ideal has taken place. Perhaps, a true muslim could address this issue, if he is following this topic.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

 

But protecting cows intentionally for getting their skin to make mridangas after they die a natutral death is also a sin ?

 

or is there any other alternative ? Is it possible to use some other skin for mridangas ?

Balaram mrdangas bought from USA are good sounding, long lasting, cow friendly and just gr8. Try them.