New ABC Ten Commandments Movie...it's trash!

[gHari]

How does one who knows so much about the Christian churches' dogma know about Krsna?

[Guest guest]

 

How does one who knows so much about the Christian churches' dogma know about Krsna?

I use to be a very dedicated Pentecostal Christian. I believed that Christ alone could save my soul from the fires of hell, and fully accepted all the other teachings that born again Christians believe in. During my time as a Christian, I studied the Bible backwards and forward. And almost went to Bible College to become an ordained minister in the Assembly of God denomination.

 

It was after several years of study, and experience in the evangelical community, that I found out I had many doubts about orthodox Christian teaching. Especially their teaching on eternal damnation for all non-Christians. It was this teaching that gave my soul the most grief. Knowing most of my relatives were going to burn in hell forever. They were not practicing Christians and I was so worried for their souls and the souls of all the other "unsaved" people in the world. This fear of God's wrath darkened my whole spiritual life. I just couldn't understand how God was going to damn billions to an eternal torture chamber, as I had been taught.

 

My questioning the eternal hell teaching led me to a site called tentmaker.org. This is a site which teaches a version of Christian Universalism, that states God loves all and will eventually save all souls. It was at that site that I began to doubt that God was as wrathful as I had always been taught. I came to believe he loved everyone, no matter what their religion. However, I could not reconcile their teachings fully with the Bible. So I began to search more, honestly seeking to know what the Truth about salvation, the nature of our soul, and our relationship with God was. I searched many, many metaphysical teachings etc.. and came to believe in reincarnation. It was in becoming a firm believer in reincarnation, that I started to look into eastern religions like Hinduism. I found that as I studied the Vedic teachings I intuitively recognized so many as transcendental Truth. The Bhagavad Gita spoke to me like no other book I had ever read in my life. It was like every question I had ever asked about the meaning of life was being answered by Lord Krishna in that book... thus, I have become convinced that the Sanatana Dharma is the eternal religion and has the answers that we all seek.

 

My old Christian friends now see me as an Apostate, and think Satan has me firmly in his grasp. They urge me to throw out my Bhagavad Gita and come back to the church. But I can't deny what I have come to believe and understand. I do not believe their teachings about God.. I believe in teachings of the Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita. These are the Eternal Truths as I see them.

 

Orthodox Christianity's doctrines are in conflict with Vedic teachings on most major points. On moral teachings they may agree, but on the means to salvation (Christ Jesus being the One Mediator), reincarnation (one life to live), the afterlife (one heaven & hell), etc.. there is major conflict. And any orthodox Christian would admit to this.

 

The Gnostic version of Christianity, as in the Gospel of Thomas, is closer to Vedic teaching, but that's another story... many Gnostic sects rejected the Old Testament entirely.. and revered the Serpent as the bringer of knowledge.. so they were far different from what has been come to know as Christianity. The Vedic religion is different than orthodox Christianity, this is all I am saying. Christians certainly do not deny this.

[D B Cooper Jr]

I can understand peoples frustrations with Christianity believe me. I have lived around them for a long time and I think it is fair to say they are enminical towards brahmanical culture for the most part. Just for my own personal peace of mind I like to take Prabhupada's mood toward Christians and try to encourage them to follow their own commandments then they can elevate to the mode of goodness and possibly become more interested in Krsna. A devotee like Prabhupada is tolerant as a tree, Krsna will probably be much more harsh on the Christians if they remain enminical to brahmanical culture, so I understand peoples desire to see Christians destoyed.

 

I do believe that Jesus was a pure devotee of God and that it is possible that the burning bush was Krsna and Krsna said to himself "I will give these primitive people in the desert a copy of regulative principles to follow, I would like to give them a copy of Srimad Bhagavatam but I fear they are too primitive to understand it". Just because I believe this doesn't mean I have any desire to join and be baptized by any Christian church anymore than I want to submit myself to a guru who demands worship, money, and then ends up having sex with his disciples.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

The God of Moses (Jehovah) claims to be the One True God, and that all other gods must be rejected as pagan deities. Vaisnavas claim to follow Lord Krishna as the Supreme God. But some also seem drawn toward to Judaism. Hmmm.

 

Those Vaisnavas (or whatever Vedic sect) that accept that the Old Testament is true, have many questions to ask themselves:

 

was it Lord Krishna who sent the plagues upon Egypt? Was it Lord Krishna who appeared to Moses at Mt. Sinai and gave the 10 commandments? Did Lord Krishna choose the Jewish people over all others, to be his holy nation? and was it him who told the Jews to take the land for themselves, driving out all the heathen gentiles..?

 

Furthermore, did Lord Krishna send his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to be a sin offering for us, the Passover Lamb that takes away the sin of the world? Is it Jesus Christ, and faith is his sacrifice for our sins, that alone can save us from the wrath that is to come? Was Peter right when he said there is none other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved?

 

If so, I think we should all become Christians. Repent and be baptized, everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (if you believe in the Bible).

Yes Krishna did that stuff in the 'old testement' - but He did not send Jesus to die for your sins.

 

" Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." [Galatians 6.7]

 

God has numberless incarntions - pleanary portions etc., so why isn't Yahweh [Jehovah is a mistranslation] an 'aspect' of God? Have you read the Torah? Have you read the Vedas? They are not dissimilar.

 

Of course Krishna was the first to say that we are saved by Grace not works:

 

Though engaged in all kinds of activities, My devotee, under My protection, reaches the eternal and imperishable abode by My grace. [bG 18.56]

 

Of course we know God also says:

 

Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt. [bG 12.8]

 

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

 

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. [Deuteronomy 6.4-5]

 

 

 

I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. [bG 9.24]

 

 

 

So in any case God is God as Gold is Gold - no matter in whose hands it falls.

 

 

 

YS,

 

 

 

BDM

[bija]

Dear Guest,

After catching a case of the pentecostalism syndrome and developing a bad reaction. I can recommend a wonderful tincture(medicine) that was formulated by a master physician over a hundred years ago. In fact it is an age old remedy for an age old problem.

But you need to follow the directions very closely.

I developed a reaction to this syndrome some years ago. This "tincture" worked for me...I still take a dose of it once a month in case of relapse.

Here it is below. Your ever well wisher,

bija.

 

Sectarianism in Spirituality

by Shrila Sacchidananda Bhaktivinoda

Thakura in Shri Krishna Samhita Late 1800's

 

Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism.

Adherence to a particular standard is the prominent symptom of a society. There are three types of standards-alocakagata, alocanagata and alocyagata. Alocakagata is when sectarianists accept some external signs. Examples of alocakagata are tilaka, neck beads, saffron robes, and the baptism that is practiced abroad. The different activities practiced in the process of worship are called alocanagata. Examples of alocanagata are sacrifices, austerities, fire sacrifices, vows, studying scriptures, deity worship, constructing temples, respecting the purity of various trees and rivers, dressing like sannyasis, acting like acaryas, dressing like brahmacaris or grhasthas, closing one's eyes, respecting particular types of books, rules and regulations in eating, and respecting the purity of particular times and places. The examples of alocyagata are attributing personalism or impersonalism on the Supreme Lord, installing deities, exhibiting the mood of an incarnation of the Lord, speculating on heaven and hell, and describing the future destination of the soul.

The different forms of these spiritual activities create divisions of sectarianism. Differences that arise from places, times, languages, behaviors, foods, dresses, and natures of various communities are incorporated within people's spiritual practices and gradually make one community so completely different from another community that even the consideration that everyone is a human being may cease to exist. Due to these differences there is disagreement, cessation of social intercourse, and fighting, even up to the point of killing one another. When an ass-like mentality becomes prominent within the kanishta-adhikaris, they certainly indulge in these things. But if they develop a swanlike mentality, then they do not take part in quarrels; rather, they endeavor to attain a higher level. Madhyama-adhikaris do not quarrel so much about external standards, but they are always attacked by philosophical disagreements. Sometimes they condemn the standards of neophytes and establish their own standards as superior. They condemn the neophytes' deity worship in order to establish the worship-able Lord as formless. In such cases, they are also considered ass-like people.

Otherwise, if they had a swanlike mentality and a desire to attain a higher level, they would respect others' practices and inquire about higher topics. Contradictions actually arise only due to ass-like mentality. Swanlike persons consider the necessity for different practices to one's qualification, so they are naturally detached from sectarian quarrels. In this regard, it should be understood that both ass-like and swanlike people are found amongst the kanishta-adhikaris and madhyama-adhikaris.

I do not expect that asslike people will accept this book with respect. If neophytes and madhyama-adhikaris become completely indifferent in regard to the contradictions found in varoius practices and try to advance further, then they become swanlike. Then they are our respectable and dear friends. Although swanlike personalities may accept a particular practice from birth or childhood according to instructions they have received, they nevertheless remain indifferent and nonsectarian.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

BDM, you are much too preoccupied with defending the minutia of your pet tradition. Truth is, people of that tradition sacked and burnt entire towns as an offering to their god:

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)"

so the version produced by ABC is not that far off the mark

What were the customary rituals of the nations round about Israel?

 

Human sacrifice - in particular child sacrifices and they also had temple prostitutes in most of these places - the religions in the nations round about Israel were not real faiths that had origins in God or truth - the gods of these peoples were not real - they were imagined - although the horrible rituals to worship these false gods were all too real.

 

If you had to look out for a people - would you want them to intermingle with these kinds of people? If you were trying to bring them to God's service within that environment - what would you have done?

 

As for the ABC trash film - they made the same error you did!

 

Do recall in our discussions that you said that they killed women and children after the golden calf incident - recall that I quoted the narrative and - it says "men" - so why did they make that same error?

 

Couldn't the writers of that film read? Or was there another reason that the real textual information was omitted?

 

So in any case I know what you think and you know what I think as we've been over these points in 'the origins of the satan myth' thread?

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I can understand peoples frustrations with Christianity believe me. I have lived around them for a long time and I think it is fair to say they are enminical towards brahmanical culture for the most part. Just for my own personal peace of mind I like to take Prabhupada's mood toward Christians and try to encourage them to follow their own commandments then they can elevate to the mode of goodness and possibly become more interested in Krsna. A devotee like Prabhupada is tolerant as a tree, Krsna will probably be much more harsh on the Christians if they remain enminical to brahmanical culture, so I understand peoples desire to see Christians destoyed.

I do believe that Jesus was a pure devotee of God and that it is possible that the burning bush was Krsna and Krsna said to himself "I will give these primitive people in the desert a copy of regulative principles to follow, I would like to give them a copy of Srimad Bhagavatam but I fear they are too primitive to understand it". Just because I believe this doesn't mean I have any desire to join and be baptized by any Christian church anymore than I want to submit myself to a guru who demands worship, money, and then ends up having sex with his disciples.

 

I understand peoples desire to see Christians destoyed.

 

That's not exactly what you meant - i think you meant christian enmity not christians?

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I use to be a very dedicated Pentecostal Christian. I believed that Christ alone could save my soul from the fires of hell, and fully accepted all the other teachings that born again Christians believe in. During my time as a Christian, I studied the Bible backwards and forward. And almost went to Bible College to become an ordained minister in the Assembly of God denomination.

 

It was after several years of study, and experience in the evangelical community, that I found out I had many doubts about orthodox Christian teaching. Especially their teaching on eternal damnation for all non-Christians. It was this teaching that gave my soul the most grief. Knowing most of my relatives were going to burn in hell forever. They were not practicing Christians and I was so worried for their souls and the souls of all the other "unsaved" people in the world. This fear of God's wrath darkened my whole spiritual life. I just couldn't understand how God was going to damn billions to an eternal torture chamber, as I had been taught.

 

My questioning the eternal hell teaching led me to a site called tentmaker.org. This is a site which teaches a version of Christian Universalism, that states God loves all and will eventually save all souls. It was at that site that I began to doubt that God was as wrathful as I had always been taught. I came to believe he loved everyone, no matter what their religion. However, I could not reconcile their teachings fully with the Bible. So I began to search more, honestly seeking to know what the Truth about salvation, the nature of our soul, and our relationship with God was. I searched many, many metaphysical teachings etc.. and came to believe in reincarnation. It was in becoming a firm believer in reincarnation, that I started to look into eastern religions like Hinduism. I found that as I studied the Vedic teachings I intuitively recognized so many as transcendental Truth. The Bhagavad Gita spoke to me like no other book I had ever read in my life. It was like every question I had ever asked about the meaning of life was being answered by Lord Krishna in that book... thus, I have become convinced that the Sanatana Dharma is the eternal religion and has the answers that we all seek.

 

My old Christian friends now see me as an Apostate, and think Satan has me firmly in his grasp. They urge me to throw out my Bhagavad Gita and come back to the church. But I can't deny what I have come to believe and understand. I do not believe their teachings about God.. I believe in teachings of the Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita. These are the Eternal Truths as I see them.

 

Orthodox Christianity's doctrines are in conflict with Vedic teachings on most major points. On moral teachings they may agree, but on the means to salvation (Christ Jesus being the One Mediator), reincarnation (one life to live), the afterlife (one heaven & hell), etc.. there is major conflict. And any orthodox Christian would admit to this.

 

The Gnostic version of Christianity, as in the Gospel of Thomas, is closer to Vedic teaching, but that's another story... many Gnostic sects rejected the Old Testament entirely.. and revered the Serpent as the bringer of knowledge.. so they were far different from what has been come to know as Christianity. The Vedic religion is different than orthodox Christianity, this is all I am saying. Christians certainly do not deny this.

 

God Bless you and - you'll one day see many of your Christian brothers and sisters come around - I know many who accept that Krishna is the same God as the God of the biblical tradition.

 

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Guest guest]

 

I can understand peoples frustrations with Christianity believe me. I have lived around them for a long time and I think it is fair to say they are enminical towards brahmanical culture for the most part. Just for my own personal peace of mind I like to take Prabhupada's mood toward Christians and try to encourage them to follow their own commandments then they can elevate to the mode of goodness and possibly become more interested in Krsna. A devotee like Prabhupada is tolerant as a tree, Krsna will probably be much more harsh on the Christians if they remain enminical to brahmanical culture, so I understand peoples desire to see Christians destoyed.

I believe we should be tolerant of Muslims and Christians, in the sense that we respect each group's right to their beliefs. It doesn't mean we allow them to run are beliefs and traditions over in their crusades/jihads though. Everyone has a right to stand up for their own beliefs and follow God as they are led to. Therefore, we have every right to point out where we disagree with their dogma, when a bible thumper tries to convert us.

 

I have no desire to see any Christian or Muslim destroyed. We are all God's children. Just because they think we are eternally damned for our beliefs, we know better than to think that of them. They are on the Soul Journey as all of us. Many of us probably were dogmatic Christians are Muslim fundamentalists in our past lives. This is just the way things are in this world of duality and the changing masks we each go through.

 

Secondly, it should be pointed out that we are mainly addressing fundamentalists on this thread. However, in Judaism, Islam and Christianity, they do have mystical/esoteric traditions: which are Kabbalah, Sufism and Gnosticism, respectively. In these traditions they are much more openminded belief in reincarnation, etc... and when one plunders into the esoteric, Universal Truths can be discovered no matter what background we come from..

 

 

 

I do believe that Jesus was a pure devotee of God.

The Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas is an enlightened sage. I think much of what has been attributed to Jesus by orthodoxy is probably twisted and distorted, and the esoteric teachings of Jesus have been suppressed. Jesus was probably either an Essene or Kabbalist, and they were mystical sects..

 

I would also like to add that God can reach us in any tradition. It's not that any tradition is totally false. The Vedic way of looking at things is, each tradition is a path to God. But that does not mean we think each tradition is correct in all their teachings. Many teachings, like saying we only have one live to live, and then your damned forever if you didn't get it right, are clearly Adharmic. So while those who believe these things may indeed have some bhakti, and make some personal spiritual progress, their beliefs about the nature of God and Soul can still be severely misguided. Thus, we don't have to pretend like all our beliefs are the same. This can create confusion in seekers, trying to reconcile diverse traditions, with conflicting teachings.

 

 

and that it is possible that the burning bush was Krsna and Krsna said to himself "I will give these primitive people in the desert a copy of regulative principles to follow, I would like to give them a copy of Srimad Bhagavatam but I fear they are too primitive to understand it".

Interesting.. my only question is: if this is true, why would he let the Jews think they alone were the chosen people on this planet, and the other tribes/people were non-elect gentiles, outside of covenant relationship with him? Do think it's possible that the Jews made that part up to become superior? Or perhaps none of the Torah was to be taken literally, and only an esoteric reading of it will suffice. If that is the case, some of H.P. Blavatsky's books are interesting in this regard.

 

In the past, I have read some articles on online that state the original Hebrews were wondering Saivites. It's an interesting read. If I find it I will post it.

 

 

Peace.

[Kulapavana]

BDM, most historians would dispute your claims that pre-biblical "pagans" were more violent then ancient Hebrews or that their worship was as bloody as the Bible makes it. It was the Old Testament hatred and contempt for other religions that caused the rivers of blood be spilled over religion for more than 2000 years in the world. And the human slaughter "in the name of god" continues among abrahamic folks today, fueled by the same paranoid concept of regigious exclusivism and special rights given the "true" believers... give me a break, the ABC film was actually kind to these folks...

[D B Cooper Jr]

Hare Krishna Guest,

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and clearly you are a much more intelligent biblical scholar then I will ever be. I also agree with BDM that Krishna is unlimited so it is possible that He is even the Christian God. Maybe some cleric comes up with fanatic statements about exclusivity or maybe Moses had some moments when he was off his rocker or something but I believe the essence of Christianity is very similar to the essence of Krsna Consciousness.

Whenever I commune with the supersoul I always have warm feelings towards Jesus because it is my belief that he was willing to give up his physical body in trying to encourage people to have faith in God and not many people are willing to go that far.

 

I believe we should be tolerant of Muslims and Christians, in the sense that we respect each group's right to their beliefs. It doesn't mean we allow them to run are beliefs and traditions over in their crusades/jihads though. Everyone has a right to stand up for their own beliefs and follow God as they are led to. Therefore, we have every right to point out where we disagree with their dogma, when a bible thumper tries to convert us.

I have no desire to see any Christian or Muslim destroyed. We are all God's children. Just because they think we are eternally damned for our beliefs, we know better than to think that of them. They are on the Soul Journey as all of us. Many of us probably were dogmatic Christians are Muslim fundamentalists in our past lives. This is just the way things are in this world of duality and the changing masks we each go through.

Secondly, it should be pointed out that we are mainly addressing fundamentalists on this thread. However, in Judaism, Islam and Christianity, they do have mystical/esoteric traditions: which are Kabbalah, Sufism and Gnosticism, respectively. In these traditions they are much more openminded belief in reincarnation, etc... and when one plunders into the esoteric, Universal Truths can be discovered no matter what background we come from..

The Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas is an enlightened sage. I think much of what has been attributed to Jesus by orthodoxy is probably twisted and distorted, and the esoteric teachings of Jesus have been suppressed. Jesus was probably either an Essene or Kabbalist, and they were mystical sects..

I would also like to add that God can reach us in any tradition. It's not that any tradition is totally false. The Vedic way of looking at things is, each tradition is a path to God. But that does not mean we think each tradition is correct in all their teachings. Many teachings, like saying we only have one live to live, and then your damned forever if you didn't get it right, are clearly Adharmic. So while those who believe these things may indeed have some bhakti, and make some personal spiritual progress, their beliefs about the nature of God and Soul can still be severely misguided. Thus, we don't have to pretend like all our beliefs are the same. This can create confusion in seekers, trying to reconcile diverse traditions, with conflicting teachings.

Interesting.. my only question is: if this is true, why would he let the Jews think they alone were the chosen people on this planet, and the other tribes/people were non-elect gentiles, outside of covenant relationship with him? Do think it's possible that the Jews made that part up to become superior? Or perhaps none of the Torah was to be taken literally, and only an esoteric reading of it will suffice. If that is the case, some of H.P. Blavatsky's books are interesting in this regard.

In the past, I have read some articles on online that state the original Hebrews were wondering Saivites. It's an interesting read. If I find it I will post it.

Peace.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

BDM, most historians would dispute your claims that pre-biblical "pagans" were more violent then ancient Hebrews or that their worship was as bloody as the Bible makes it. It was the Old Testament hatred and contempt for other religions that caused the rivers of blood be spilled over religion for more than 2000 years in the world. And the human slaughter "in the name of god" continues among abrahamic folks today, fueled by the same paranoid concept of regigious exclusivism and special rights given the "true" believers... give me a break, the ABC film was actually kind to these folks...

 

"most historians would dispute your claims that pre-biblical "pagans"....worship was as bloody as the Bible makes it."

 

Not all were - but the ones in the middle east were - do you deny well known history? Well of course you do!

"true" believers - well isn't that what you are supposed to be? How do people handle it when you say that Hare Krishna has all the answers? How do you hide your exclusivity to the truth?

 

So as I said - I know already what you think and you know already what I think - right?

 

Let's see a biased movie about hindu/vedic history - would you be happy to see a atheistic presentation of that too?

 

You sure still suffer from an extreme 'us and them' mindset - in opposition to the Teachings of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada...

 

YS,

 

BDM

[D B Cooper Jr]

Christianity is Vaisnavism

 

 

<!-- the main section of the post goes here -->

Bhakti-yoga means connecting ourselves with Krsna, God, and becoming His eternal associates. Bhakti-yoga cannot be applied to any other objective; therefore in Buddhism, for instance, there is no bhakti-yoga, because they do not recognize the Supreme Lord existing as the supreme objective.

Christians, however, practice bhakti-yoga when they worship Jesus Christ, because they are accepting him as the son of God and are therefore accepting God. Unless one accepts God, there is no question of bhakti-yoga. Christianity, therefore, is also a form of Vaisnavism, because God is recognized. Nonetheless, there are different stages of God realization.

Mainly, Christianity says, “God is great,” and that is a very good assertion, but the actual greatness of God can be understood from Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. Accepting the greatness of God is the beginning of bhakti. Bhakti-yoga also exists among the Muhammadans, because God is the target in the Muslim religion.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 8: Failure and Success in Yoga

Prabhupada: No, no. Christianity is Vaisnavism.

Dr. Patel: Vaisnavism? Absolutely Vaisnavism.

Prabhupada: Anyone who… Mohammedan is also Vaisnavism.

Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaisnavism.

Prabhupada: No, no. Caitanya Mahaprabhu had talk with the Pathanas. He proved that “Your religion is Vaisnavism.”

Dr. Patel: Christianity is Vaisnavism 100%.

Prabhupada: Therefore in Caitanya-caritamrta there is. I have already explained that.

Dr. Patel: No, Christianity is 100% Vaisnavism. I have studied Christianity very well.

Prabhupada: Not hundred percent, but…

Dr. Patel: More or less.

Prabhupada: Yes.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — February 17, 1974, Bombay

Dr. Patel: Christianity it is really Vaisnavism, but they, unfortunately…

The church…

Prabhupada: Mohamedanism… Mohammedanism…

Dr. Patel: The church has spoiled it.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Church has defaced it.

Prabhupada: Yes. Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: It is the church, Christian church, which has defaced Christism.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Everywhere the followers make the whole thing bungled.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk Excerpts — May 1, 1974, Bombay

 

Got that from www.prabhupada.org

 

Not all were - but the ones in the middle east were - do you deny well known history? Well of course you do!

"true" believers - well isn't that what you are supposed to be? How do people handle it when you say that Hare Krishna has all the answers? How do you hide your exclusivity to the truth?

So as I said - I know already what you think and you know already what I think - right?

Let's see a biased movie about hindu/vedic history - would you be happy to see a atheistic presentation of that too?

You sure still suffer from an extreme 'us and them' mindset - in opposition to the Teachings of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada...

YS,

BDM

[D B Cooper Jr]

Hare Krishna BDM,

I have heard many Vaisnavas that are mad at America because they say we have become a Christian Imperialistic force. I have heard Vaisnavas say who cares if Muslims and Christians kill each other, things like that. I don't necessarily agree with them but I can understand their frustration because there is a lot of dupilicity and materialism in America but like I say Prabhupada is the ultimate authority and Prabhupada said he didn't come here to convert people to Hinduism but to encourage them to follow their own religous principles and provide people with a further understanding of God if they were interested. So meditating on anger at Christians doesn't seem to be in the same mood that Srila Prabhupada was in based on what I have studied about him.

 

I understand peoples desire to see Christians destoyed.

That's not exactly what you meant - i think you meant christian enmity not christians?

YS,

BDM

[melvin]

Swami Jesus was the name a little girl gave to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada while he was in Boston, USA just after he arrived in the land of milk and honey in the mid 60s.Swamiji after hearing those words was so elated that he described it with these words, " . .and a little child shall led them."

Fast forward in early November 1977, Swamiji Jesus Abhay wanted to do a Parikrama jaya-sita( Pariksit Maharaj) traveling to different temples or churches before he departs to Goloka Vrndavan yet was denied by his closests servants, Gurudeva Maharaj.Heartbroken, Abhay Charan de relinquished his material body on the 14th of November 1977.But did this incident stop the progress of the Hare Krsna movement?

Like what Swamiji Jesus Abhay said, " a fan still rotates briefly even if its power is cut." Under suspended animation, Swamiji`s spiritual body remained in the data base of the USA Library of Congress and whatever recorded information the universe has to give.

LOVE GOD

---------

Before 911, I feel it was me who restored Swamiji Jesus Abhay`s broken heart when I discovered I could animate His Divine Grace`s famous questions and answers in the afterlife. I started the thread at this web site, www.delphi.com.

The animation went on like this:

Me:". .mmh.why is swami prabhupad sleeping?he`s not breathing and his heart stopped a long time ago.but i would just like to tell him that God is really talking to us every second. i have proof."

- placing the bell part of my stethoscope, I spoke to His Divine Grace within my heart, ". . you know sir, these medical doctors were wrong in telling me this fact. . that the heart sounds we hear are lub-dub-lub-dub-lub-dub.why, it`s actually, luv-God-luv-God-luv-God!"

- like a genie in a bottle one appeared as Swamiji Jesus Abhay Charan de Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, he suddenly got up, and said.

Swami:" . . why that`s wonderful! that`s the first time I ever heard of it! I`m cured! my heart`s no longer broken!"

Me:" Sir, could I invite you to come and join the band with me?dr jayasriradhey will do the vocals.you with the cimbals and me, with my spanish guitar.we need one more I believe to do the drums.so, lets go and recruit a ringo starr.If we complete the line up, we will flood the globe with the love of God.Come! let`s not waste our time"

Swami:" . . okay! let`s teleport ourselves and see if we could find one on site!"

Me:". 10.9.8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1.zzzp!"

-------------end of story says me" krsnaraja"---------------

[bija]

I just had to highlight this,

 

 

these medical doctors were wrong in telling me this fact. . that the heart sounds we hear are lub-dub-lub-dub-lub-dub.why, it`s actually, luv-God-luv-God-luv-God!" quote melvin

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

...there is a lot of dupilicity and materialism in America ...

Hey please don't single out America here - that is everyone's problem to some measure or another. There isn't any nation that isn't duplicitous and materialistic. I'll go as far as saying that in today's world - there are as many vaishnava's who are that way - as there aren't.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Swami Jesus was the name a little girl gave to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada while he was in Boston, USA

Hari Bolo!

 

Prabhupada writes to the mother of that wise young girl:

 

"Lord Jesus is a living example how one has to suffer in this material world simply for the matter of preaching the message of God." [Letter November 19, 1965]

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Not to mention the other commandment, where Jehovah says "thou shalt have no other gods before me". If you read the Old Testament, you will find Jehovah is always furious at those who who worship any demigod but him. There is nothing like the patience and understanding of Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

 

Let's face it, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, and yes Krishna, are seen as false gods by those from the Judeo-Christian religion, who believe in the 10 commandments.

 

Jews reject Krishna as a false "gentile" deity, and in no way equate him with their god. And Christians reject hindus as polytheistic pagans. The 10 commandments have repeatedly been thrown in Hindu faces, to try and convince Hindus that they are pagans, that need to repent and submit before Jehovah (the One True God).

Well in the Gita Krishna says the same thing; 'look you I'm supreme and all others are not - surrender to Me only' - so it is a matter of semantics in terms of the biblical version of this order from God.

 

Don't paint all Jews and Christians with the same lame broad brush because - they don't all feel that way.

 

The scriptures of both can be presented in light of the teachings of the Vedas - in particular vaishnavism - it is up to you to read the scriptures and see where that is and - work with it.

 

You say that you have to defend hindu faith from these groups - how is it you intend to do that? A continuance of the 'us and them' mindset?

 

Think about it - how can there be peace on earth with that scenario?

 

Also - you should look into Hebrew prophesy to see that in the so-called messianic era there shall be an inter-faith brotherhood of nations:

 

...neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.3-5]

 

One could even say:

 

For let all the peoples walk each one in their name for God

 

So - with that one example - we have to ask - if the faith of the Hebrews is so intolerant then - why this prophesy of a future time when humanity no longer makes war nor fights over religion and/or God?

 

Do you want to see that day? You do know that a hare krishna global conversion isn't going to happen [at least not in this century ] - so what then of our future? Do we continue to encourage the strife and differences or do we encourage the opposite? You decide where you fit in. I'm for ya...

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Guest guest]

 

Well in the Gita Krishna says the same thing; 'look you I'm supreme and all others are not - surrender to Me only' - so it is a matter of semantics in terms of the biblical version of this order from God.

 

Don't paint all Jews and Christians with the same lame broad brush because - they don't all feel that way.

 

The scriptures of both can be presented in light of the teachings of the Vedas - in particular vaishnavism - it is up to you to read the scriptures and see where that is and - work with it.

 

You say that you have to defend hindu faith from these groups - how is it you intend to do that? A continuance of the 'us and them' mindset?

 

Think about it - how can there be peace on earth with that scenario?

 

Also - you should look into Hebrew prophesy to see that in the so-called messianic era there shall be an inter-faith brotherhood of nations:

 

...neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.3-5]

 

One could even say:

 

For let all the peoples walk each one in their name for God

 

So - with that one example - we have to ask - if the faith of the Hebrews is so intolerant then - why this prophesy of a future time when humanity no longer makes war nor fights over religion and/or God?

 

Do you want to see that day? You do know that a hare krishna global conversion isn't going to happen [at least not in this century ] - so what then of our future? Do we continue to encourage the strife and differences or do we encourage the opposite? You decide where you fit in. I'm for ya...

 

YS,

 

BDM

The future, who knows, but we are speaking of the state of religions today. As they are practiced now by their respective adherents, and as are documented in their creeds and holy books.

 

Christianity, Islam and Orthodox Judaism are very stict in their beliefs and what doctrinal positions..

 

Those who practice Orthodox Judaism don't want to be preached to about Jesus; infact they see him as Anti-Torah and an enemy of the Mosaic Law. So how can we expect them to embrace the New Testament, let alone the Bhagavad Gita?

 

Those who follow Christianity, don't want to hear the Bhagavad Gita quoted from their pulpits. The BG teaches things very contrary to their statement of faith. If a Pastor in a Baptist church, for example, started teaching from the BG on Sundays, he would immediately be labeled an apostate, and asked to either repent or step down from the Pulpit.

 

Orthodox Christianity teaches that the Bible alone and in it's entirety is the complete revelation of Jehovah. And the Nicene Creed defines the basic beliefs of all orthodox sects (Catholic and Protestant). Therefore, they could never accept writings from the Vedic teachings and maintain their current Statement of Faith at the same time, or they would be biblically speaking, a heretic.

 

Neither could we expect Muslims to all of a sudden start embracing Christianity, let alone a non-Abrahamic religious tradition like Vaisnavism/Saivism/or any Vedic tradition. Could you imagine a Muslim cleric stating he believed Krishna was Allah? or that we should heed Krishna's words in the BG? He'd be putting his life at risk.

 

So this one world religion cannot happen from the current perspective of the Abrahamic faiths. They would have to cease to be orthodox and totally re-evaluate their doctrines and creeds. And when they'd do that, their faiths would stop being what they are today. So if we really say we respect their faiths, then we should acknowledge they are different than ours.

 

If we crept into their churches and started preaching our doctrines, and that our beliefs are close together, we'd be labeled as wolf in sheep's clothes and false teachers, who have crept in among the flock. So they don't want anything to do with any sect of Hinduism, as far as accepting us into their greater fold. This would be considered a work of Satan, to deceive souls with a one world religion, from their perspective. And this is something they believe their prophesied Antichrist will do. See Revelation 13.

 

Christians who want to defend their faiths and traditions, must stand up and call Vaisnavism a false religion. They readily acknowledge our religions are different! and that our holy writings are not theirs.

 

Yet for some reason we must go out of our way to pretend like we accept the Abrahamic writings, like the Koran, Talmud and Bible? and pretend like we are all the same. Nonsense! The Abrahamicm traditions make no pretenses in stating that our respective traditions are different. So why should we pretend like they are the same? When we state they are, they lose respect for us, and they think our religion must be some wishy-washy New Age religion, without any clearly defined beliefs or realizations.

 

Now, there are traditions very close to Hinduism in beliefs. Such as, Sihkism, Radhasoami and Jainism. If we want to start unifying different religions, the least we could do is start with traditions that are very close to us in teachings and theology.

 

In the present state of world-religions, unity can't be to create a one-world religion and pretend like we all believe the same, while we each deny our own personal beliefs in the procress, as to not offend other religions. This politically correct religion could never last long. Divisions are a natural part of this world of Maya.

 

Unity occurs in the Soul Realm, not in Maya. There are no divisions at the Soul Level. But in this world of outer appearances, there are definite divisions, from religion to politics. And while we should all preach tolerance and religious liberty, we can't sit and pretend like we all believe the same, when we really don't.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

The future, who knows, but we are speaking of the state of religions today. As they are practiced now by their respective adherents, and as are documented in their creeds and holy books.

 

Christianity, Islam and Orthodox Judaism are very stict in their beliefs and what doctrinal positions..

 

Those who practice Orthodox Judaism don't want to be preached to about Jesus; infact they see him as Anti-Torah and an enemy of the Mosaic Law. So how can we expect them to embrace the New Testament, let alone the Bhagavad Gita? blah blah blah...

 

Well you clearly have failed to see what Prabhupada says on the issue.

 

Prabhupada says that just as the four pillars of sin are universal - so too are the four principles of religion:

 

The principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, as we have already discussed, may be followed by the follower of any faith. There is no need to turn from Hindu to Mohammedan to Christian or some other faith and thus become a renegade and not follow the principles of religion. The Bhagavatam religion urges following the principles of religion. [sB 1.17.32, purport]

 

That is one of many such quotes - so the point is your own bias and prejudice is making you see things the way you do. You accuse these other groups of exclusivity and harshness and then display it yourself.

 

My point wasn't that one would be preaching the scriptures of one faith in the pulpits of others - the point was that we could in communications center on the things that we have in common.

 

Are you going to wait to change your attitude? You won't till they do? Well you're not setting any example in that approach are you?

 

Another thing - you judge entire faiths for the actions of some of the followers - past and present - but you again fail to see that that is just an excuse for your own bias against these faiths - if they don't follow then the whole tradition is crap - in this you center on the parts of their scritpures that you feel are bogus.

 

If you go search and read the 'origins of the satan myth' thread you'll see that all this has been discussed - that people in those traditions can [when reading out of context] find [so-called] objectionable materials within vedic texts - all kinds of things - so really it is a two-way affair.

 

So next time you think about how bad 'they' are just try to see how they may look at you in the same way.

 

Time to change this mindset dear soul.

 

YS,

 

BDM

[Guest guest]

 

Well you clearly have failed to see what Prabhupada says on the issue.

 

Prabhupada says that just as the four pillars of sin are universal - so too are the four principles of religion:

 

The principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, as we have already discussed, may be followed by the follower of any faith. There is no need to turn from Hindu to Mohammedan to Christian or some other faith and thus become a renegade and not follow the principles of religion. The Bhagavatam religion urges following the principles of religion. [sB 1.17.32, purport]

 

That is one of many such quotes - so the point is your own bias and prejudice is making you see things the way you do. You accuse these other groups of exclusivity and harshness and then display it yourself.

 

My point wasn't that one would be preaching the scriptures of one faith in the pulpits of others - the point was that we could in communications center on the things that we have in common.

 

Are you going to wait to change your attitude? You won't till they do? Well you're not setting any example in that approach are you?

 

Another thing - you judge entire faiths for the actions of some of the followers - past and present - but you again fail to see that that is just an excuse for your own bias against these faiths - if they don't follow then the whole tradition is crap - in this you center on the parts of their scritpures that you feel are bogus.

 

If you go search and read the 'origins of the satan myth' thread you'll see that all this has been discussed - that people in those traditions can [when reading out of context] find [so-called] objectionable materials within vedic texts - all kinds of things - so really it is a two-way affair.

 

So next time you think about how bad 'they' are just try to see how they may look at you in the same way.

 

Time to change this mindset dear soul.

 

YS,

 

BDM

Buddhists are some of the most moral people in the world, and they are atheists. Because each religion teaches a moral principles, does not mean they are the same. There are some large differences in major beliefs among the various religions. And especially among the Abrahamic Religions and Eastern religions.

 

I know full well what orthodox Christians believe. They believe we are all going to burn in hell; because faith in Jesus Christ and his blood sacrifice on the Cross alone can save us from the wages of sin. They do not want interfaith dialogue, they want to save our souls before we are sucked into a Christless eternity.

 

I know full well what Orthodox Muslims believe. They believe Allah is God and Muhammed is his prophet. They believe we are polytheistic heathens, that are going to burn in hell.

 

I don't have to twist any of their writings to come to these conclusions. This is what they openly teach!

 

Go to any born-again Christian church in your town and ask them if a Hindu will go to heaven. Every born-again Christian will say NO. They have to say NO, or they would be going against their religion.

 

Born again Christians believe these are the end times and the Anti-christ and false prophet will soon arrive, to deceive the whole world into a one world religion, and install the Mark of the Beast (666) on everyone's forehead who doesn't submit to this one world union. After this Jesus Christ will return to earth to raise all those who have ever lived from the dead, and then at this Final Judgment, he will cast all non-Christians into a Lake of Fire to be tormented day and night forever. This is exactly what born-again Christians believe! I have distorted nothing. Is this what you believe, Don? Cause these are the beliefs you seem to have no problem with, and the religion you are determined in defending.

 

Because of their beliefs that there is going to soon come a satanic One-World-Religion and Universal Brotherhood, born again Christians are especially leary of anyone who is preaching ecumenicalism in these days! they believe these wolves in sheep's clothes are planting the seeds that the Anti-Christ will harvest. They would definitely suspect this of Vaisnavas/Saivites preaching ecumenicalism.

 

Now, born again Christians will respect those who acknowledge the differences in our traditions. When we state our beliefs are different they actually respect that! What they have no respect for is the New Age, or politically correct spiritual talk, that tries to mix everything up. They see this as the work of Satan to try and muddy the waters and confuse people in their tradition into thinking Jesus Christ is not the One and Only Way to Heaven.

 

Therefore if you want to earn basic respect in dialogue, at least don't pretend that Christianity and Hindu traditions are the same. They are not in many, many major beliefs. We may each be equally sincere and dedicated to our spiritual beliefs, but our beliefs are not the same.

 

Born again Christians are very strict in following their creeds, and not mixing with unbelievers in matters of faith. The Apostle Paul, said let all those who distort the pure gospel teachings be anathema (read Galatians 1)! This is why Born-Again Christians despise sects like Mormons, who aren't even really that far off from them in beliefs. Yet the subtle differences are enough to send huge alarm bells with them! What to speak of Vaisnavas/Saivites/Shaktas/Smartas and those who follow Vedic traditions! We aren't even in the same ballpark as them; we are considered as those outside the covenant with God and the commonwealth of spiritual Israel.

 

My goodness, if we worried more about the vedic traditions, than what the Abrahamic faiths teach or believe, we may actually be able to strengthen the dharmic traditions from the enemies, who want to see Hindus become Christian or Muslim. Let the Christians/Jews and Muslims worry about the Bible/Koran/Talmud.. those of us who follow Hindu traditions, have a full-time job understanding our own teachings and practices, without confusing ourselves trying to understand every other holy text and belief system around the world and reinterpret their teachings to blend with ours.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

You just don't get it - so what - fight with everybody - who cares?

 

You didn't look into the 'origins of the satan myth' thread - why not?

 

Your business is to find the real truth and to present it in a way that brings people together - obviously you are not up to the task - shame - you might have become a little more broad-minded yourself...

 

I have an - why don't you go check into the proper translation of the word "comes" in John 14.6 - you'll see your starting point...

 

Look at these?

 

http://www.jesusveg.com/popecats.html

 

http://www.goveg.com/f-popebenedictxvi.asp

 

 

 

 

 

Find this tune and hear it:

 

<table nof="LY" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="661"><tbody><tr align="left" valign="top"><td style="vertical-align: top;">

</td><td colspan="5">

</td> <td colspan="2" class="TextObject" width="424"> Us and Them

(Waters, Wright) 7:40

 

Us, and them

And after all we're only ordinary men.

Me, and you.

God only knows it's noz what we would choose to do.

Forward he cried from the rear

and the front rank died.

And the general sat and the lines on the map

moved from side to side.

Black and blue

And who knows which is which and who is who.

Up and down.

But in the end it's only round and round.

Haven't you heard it's a battle of words

The poster bearer cried.

Listen son, said the man with the gun

There's room for you inside.

 

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,

sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off

lightly, 'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!

It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners

don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

 

Down and out

It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.

With, without.

And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?

Out of the way, it's a busy day

I've got things on my mind.

For the want of the price of tea and a slice

The old man died.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Guest guest]

Don, I can appreciate your heart, but I think it's important to be honest as well.

 

There are so many differences in what the Bible teaches and what vedic traditions teach, we cannot kid ourselves.

 

For example, the Bible does not teach vegetarianism, and the New Testament clearly says that imposing this type of legalism is wrong.

 

Was Jesus a vegetarian according to the Bible?

 

Jesus and his disciples eat fish:

John Chapter 21 (KJV):

10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

 

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

 

12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

 

13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.

 

God tells Peter it's to kill and eat meat

 

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. Acts 10:9 (NIV) He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. Acts 10:10 (NIV) He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. Acts 10:11 (NIV) It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Acts 10:12 (NIV) Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." Acts 10:13 (NIV) "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." Acts 10:14 (NIV)

 

The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Acts 10:15 (NIV) This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. Acts 10:16 (NIV)

 

The Apostle Paul, Jesus chosen Apostle to the Gentiles, declares all food clean and acceptable to eat.

Romans 14:

 

"As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean." Romans14:14.

 

Paul makes it very plain that no food is unclean in itself. But if you want to regard certain foods as unclean then it is your call. But vegetarianism is not to be regared as any rule.

 

Rom 14:20 - Rom 14:21 (NIV) 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

 

Paul declares we should freely eat anything sold in the meat market or at an non-Christian’s table.

 

1 Cor 10:25 - 1 Cor 10:27 (NIV) 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” 27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.

 

 

Paul declares clean and unclean dietary laws have ended in the New Testament age. And these Old Testament laws never included vegetarianism anyway, but rather Kosher laws, like no pork eating. This is why Jews will eat beef but not pork..

 

(Col 2:14 NIV) "having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."

 

Col 2:16 - Col 2:17 (NIV) 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

 

This is what the Christian Bible teaches.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Don, I can appreciate your heart, but I think it's important to be honest as well.

 

Well now - you've changed the subject - from God and religious principles - to meat eating and diet.

 

Without a doubt - the biblical tradition appears to condone and even encourage the flesh diet yet - further study shows otherwise.

 

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. [isaiah 65.25]

 

For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field, and the wild animals will be at peace with you. [Job 5.23]

 

There are many many more texts like this...

 

Paul even says [in your quote]:

 

'It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.'

 

So what is he saying? Why was it an issue this eating meat? Why this advice at all? Was it all to do with idol offerings and unclean meats? No.

 

Also there was no way that Paul could amend the law in this connection - as it is written here:

 

It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. [Lev., 3.17]

 

How many people eating flesh with fat and blood still in it?

 

Of course one could take the position that here God is introducing a trick edict - because one cannot remove all the blood from the meat.

 

The biblical tradition has a serious basis for a flesh free life - it's just been lost but - you too can help to restore it. Do you even think it's important to try?

 

Yes you may find verses that seem to endorse these things - but you [everyone] must understand the various times and circumstances of all these things - to make closed and broad 'forever' judgements is a waste and - unfair...

 

How much Biblical materials have you really read? Have you ever searched an online bible? You should try it.

 

The point is this - don't plant seeds of hate and strife between the faiths - even if we do have such expansive differences - because - at the end of the day - even though we and our faiths are many - The Object of our Faiths - is O-N-E.

 

What faith were you before you came to Krishna? [if you don't mind my asking]

 

ys,

 

BDM