Shivam Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 The Hindu's say that the Maha-Mantra's proper order is: Hare Rama, Hare Rama// Rama Rama, Hare Hare// Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna// Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare// Where as we know that Krishna came before Rama so the Maha-Mantra is recited Krishna before Rama. My question is that did Krishna know that Rama was going to be in his Maha Mantra? Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Without getting into all the details, Krishna is Rama, They are the same person. Besides that, He is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yegan Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Rama definitely came first in Treta yuga whereas krishna came much later in late Dwarpa yuga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivam Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Rama definitely came first in Treta yuga whereas krishna came much later in late Dwarpa yuga. Oh! I didn't know that. I thought that Krishna came before Rama like the order of the Maha-Mantra. They are all incarnations of Lord Visnu, why do we pray to his re-incarnations instead of just Maha-Visnu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Rama in the maha mantra does not necessarily refer to Lord Ramachandra, but to Sri Radha Raman, the lord of vrndavana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puru_Das Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 The Hindu's say that the Maha-Mantra's proper order is: Hare Rama, Hare Rama// Rama Rama, Hare Hare// Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna// Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare// Where as we know that Krishna came before Rama so the Maha-Mantra is recited Krishna before Rama. My question is that did Krishna know that Rama was going to be in his Maha Mantra? Hare Krsna ". . . The real importance of the name is not to be found merely in the arrangement of its syllables, but in the deep meaning within that divine sound. Some scholars argue that in the Kali-santarana Upanisad, Lord Brahma says that the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is properly pronounced only when the name of Rama precedes the name of Krsna: "Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare/ Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare." <CENTER>Krishna Nama </CENTER>In the Kali-santarana Upanisad, the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is given in that way. But to say that the name of Rama must precede the name of Krsna in the mantra is a superficial understanding. It is said that because it comes from the Upanisads, the Hare Krsna mantra is a Vedic mantra, and therefore, because the ordinary people may not have any entrance into Vedic mantras, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu readjusted this mantra by reversing the order of the words. In that way, it is said, the concern that it is a Vedic mantra is thereby canceled, and so Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave it to all without breaching the injunctions of the Vedas. Some devotees in Uttar Pradesh who have great affection for Sri Caitanyadeva like to give this opinion. But our faith is that the mentioning of "Hare Rama" first is only superficial. It concerns the idea that since the Rama avatara appeared first and the Krsna avatara afterwards, the name of Rama, "Hare Rama," should come first in the maha-mantra. A deeper reading will consider that when two similar things are connected together, the priority will be ordered not on the basis of historical precedent, but in consideration of the most highly developed conception. The holy name of Krsna is higher than the holy name of Rama. This is mentioned in the Puranas: three names of Rama equal one name of Krsna. The name of Krsna is superior to the name of Rama. Where the two are connected together, the first position should be given to the one that is superior. Therefore, the name of Krsna must come first in the maha-mantra. This is one point. Another point is that within the eternal plane, everything is moving in a cyclic order. In an eternal cycle, which is first and which is next cannot be ascertained, and so, in the eternal plane of lila, it cannot be determined whether Krsna is before Rama or Rama is before Krsna. So from that consideration also, since the names of Krsna and Rama are eternal and unrelated to any historical event, we may begin the mantra from any place. <CENTER>Rama Means Krishna </CENTER>But above these considerations, our sampradaya has given another, higher consideration. A deeper understanding will reveal that the Hare Krsna mantra is not at all concerned with rama lila. In the name of Rama within the Hare Krsna mantra, the Gaudiya Vaisnavas will find Radha-ramana Rama. That means "Krsna, who gives pleasure (raman) to Srimati Radharani." In our conception, the Hare Krsna mantra is wholesale Krsna consciousness, not Rama consciousness. Sri Caitanya's highest conception of things is always svayam bhagavan, krsna lila, radha-govinda lila. That is the real purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's advent and teachings. In that consideration, the Hare Krsna mantra does not mention the rama lila of Ayodhya at all. There is no connection with that in the highest conception of the Hare Krsna mantra. And the inner conception of the mantra is responsible for our spiritual attainment. When one pronounces the name Rama, if he means Dasarathi Rama, his attraction will take him there, to Ayodhya; if he means Parasurama, he will be attracted to another place. And if Rama means Radha-ramana Rama, he will go to Goloka. The inner conception of the devotee will guide him to his destination. My original name was Ramendra Candra. When I was given initiation, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave me the name Ramendra Sundara. I asked him, "What is the meaning of Ramendra?" He told me, "In our consideration, Rama does not mean Dasarathi Rama or Lord Ramacandra, the son of King Dasaratha. It means Radha-ramana Rama - Krsna, the lover of Radharani." The name "Hare" may also mean different things according to one's conception. That the meaning of the word Hare in the mantra is taken to mean Radharani is also determined according to the spiritual development or qualification (adhikara) of the chanter. When one is firmly established in conceiving of Radha-Krsna in the background of everything - when one finds svayam-rupa, the original form of Godhead, underlying all sorts of conceptions of all things good - then only will he find that sort of meaning and nothing else. For beginners, the word "Hare" in the Hare Krsna mantra can be conceived to mean Hari. That is one meaning. It may also mean Nrsimhadeva. And just as "Rama" can mean Dasarathi Rama, "Krsna" may refer to different types of Krsna. There is also a Krsna in Vaikuntha, where the vaibhavas, or extensions of the Lord, number twenty-four. In Vaikuntha, first there is Narayana, and then four extensions: Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. Each of these four has five agents, making twenty-four in all. One of these is the Krsna of Vaikuntha. Then there is the Krsna of Dvaraka and the Krsna of Mathura. In this way there are various conceptions of Krsna. But the highest conception of Krsna is Krsna in Vrndavana: Radha-Govinda. When one cannot remove himself from that plane, he will conceive of divinity only as Hari-Hara. He will see nothing else but Radha-Krsna. Those who are completely and perfectly installed in madhura-rasa - who have the highest kind of divine vision - cannot come down from that plane. If they do, it is only for the interest of Radha-Govinda. In that case, the devotee may go anywhere, but his real interest is under lock and key in Vrndavana. Only on behalf of the service of Radha- Govinda will a devotee leave Vrndavana. For those who are followers of the Vrndavana line, "Hare" in the Hare Krsna mantra can only mean Hara: Srimati Radharani. Hara means "Radha, who can even snatch the attention of Krsna, Hari." The word harana means "to steal. " One who can steal the mind of He who is most expert in stealing - who can steal even the mind of Krsna - She is Hara. Stealing in its highest capacity is shown by Radharani. And "Krsna" means "He who is most attractive in the absolute sense." They are both represented in the mantra. from: The Holy Name from Loving Search For The Lost Servant by Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Gosvami Maharaja http://www.bvml.org/SBRSM/holyname.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhava Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 They are all incarnations of Lord Visnu, why do we pray to his re-incarnations instead of just Maha-Visnu? Krsna is the origin of Vishnu, not the other way around. When Krsna creates the material universes, He does so through Vishnu. Just as if you were to build your own house, you would put on carpenters clothes and go to work. Your appearance and behavior would become somewhat different. Once built, you could then enter into it and engage in various activities. In this sense, Vishnu is Krsna working. He appears here in the house that He built, and in different yugas, plays with His energies in various roles and pastimes. According to the age in which He appears, we should interact with Him according to His desire. In Kali-yuga He has appeared in golden form as Lord Caitanya. Therefore the process of worship in this age is Harinam Sankirtana—as He introduced. This is the means, by His mercy, to enter into His present lila, as He taught by His own example. Speaking to Prakasananda Sarasvati, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: krsna-mantra haite habe samsara-mocana krsna-nama haite pabe krsnera carana "Simply by chanting the holy name of Krsna one can obtain freedom from material existence. Indeed, simply by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra one will be able to see the lotus feet of the Lord.” [Adi 7.73] nama vinu kali-kale nahi ara dharma sarva-mantra-sara nama, ei sastra-marma "In this Age of Kali there is no religious principle other than the chanting of the holy name, which is the essence of all Vedic hymns. This is the purport of all scriptures.” [Adi 7.74] harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "For spiritual progress in this Age of Kali, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative to the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord.” [Adi 7.76] That Hare Krsna mantra is the maha-mantra: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare This is sravanam kirtanam visnoh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I read that the order was reversed by Lord Chaitanya - to give a chance to everyone to benefit from this mantra. As no one but a brahmana could chant it - so the Lord in His Inestimably Mercy adjusted things for everyone. Thus there couldn't be any issue with non-brahmins chanting a vedic mantra. So also we must consider that - if we are chanting continually - then - there is not any start point or end point - it's an unbroken circle of chanting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yegan Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Exactly, if one chant continously we dont know whether Krishna or Rama is chanted first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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