RE: New question to the group from Swamiji

[Guest guest]

My thought

is that they all lead home to Mother, so they are all the most important things

we can do. I think we have parts of all of them, some more than the rest. For

example, I am a Devi bhakta. I worship the lotus feet of the Mother and adore

everything about Her, whether reading (jnana), puja (karma), or meditation(dhyan).

I would say that right now I am about 50% bhakta, 20% jnana (I adore Devi Gita

and Devi Mahatmya especially), 20% dhyan, and 10% karma. But as She guides me

along the path, each day is a new door with new adventures awaiting!

In Her

love,

Rick

-----Original

Message-----

Sarada [sarada_saraswati ]

Thursday, September 18, 2003

5:11 PM

New

question to the group from Swamiji

color:black">Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family:"Courier New";color:black">

bhakti -

devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

practice

and why?

line-break">

windowtext">

color:black">

"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family:"Courier New";color:black">

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

[Guest guest]

I believe that the most important to practice is bhakti. Ramakrishna

says that in this Kali Yuga this is our only hope in our quest to

have a vision of Her.

 

Pranams Swamiji!

Gauri

Sarada <sarada_saraswati > wrote:

Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom, bhakti

- devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

practice and why?To from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the Chandi Ma ki jai!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

There are different types of yoga because there are people with

different appetites, aptitudes, and dispositions.

 

So, it is important to practice in a manner that is most appropriate for you.

 

OM Tat Sat

 

Lalita

>Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

>bhakti -

>devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

>practice

>and why?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

I believe the question is 'practice' - and I believe we can practise

puja(karma) and do it with all the sincerity and efficiency that we

are capable of . Indeed that is all that is our hands. The reward is

Grace which inspires us towards the next step which is meditation ,

which blesses us with devotion and Jnana .

 

So the most important practice is karma yoga - sincere , efficient,

from-the-heart puja - and all other things shall be added unto you.

 

Thank you Swami for giving us so many books on Puja.

 

 

 

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

[Guest guest]

on one level it depends--on the practitioner's

samskaras/personality/abilities. there are great jnanis who would

have made lousy bhaktas, and vice-versa. some people find bhakti

patently absurd, but they try a little dhyana and experience God

profoundly.

 

still, I do lean in the same direction as Gauri--the _Gita_ and Sri

Ramakrishna both show that from bhakti all the other yogas can grow.

bhakti is the base note, the key in which the Song is played. to go

out on a limb, it seems that bhakti, even more than meditation, puts

us in touch with the essential nature of Satchitananda (if such

an "essential nature" can really be said to exist!)...

HH

 

 

 

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

[Guest guest]

Hi Swamiji-

 

I had alway thought which ever yoga brought you into balance. I have a

tendency to be very analytical and the bhakti yoga has added more

heart into what I do and who I am.

 

Jai Ma

Marsha

 

 

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

[Guest guest]

Taking all four as it is, Jnana or Wisdom is paramount, since

everthing leads to Wisdom and anything which doesn't is a wasteful

exercise, but as a practice meditation or Dhyan is the most

important one because it is through meditation that Ultimate

Knowledge or Ultimate Surrender happens.

 

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

[Guest guest]

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

 

 

It seems to me at first that bhakti--devotion--is the most important yoga;

after all, how can you desire to meditate, perform any spiritual acitivity,

obtaining wisdom, without devotion? If you do not love something, then you

will not pursue it with any depth or sincerity; if you do not persevere in any

endeavor, which takes devotion, you will never get anywhere. With bhakti,

there is focus because of one's beloved (desire); with true devotion, comes

surrender, bringing self-knowledge and therefore depth of wisdom.

Performing any activity through your heart (devotion) brings fruit from that

action.

 

But it also seems to me that all four are bound together, as I was just

expounding on bhakti, weaving together with and through each other.

True devotion indeed brings wisdom and meditative mind, selfless action;

practice of selfless action will strengthen devotion by its very nature;

real wisdom realizes the necessity of devotion and the result of meditation;

and so on.

 

It may, as Ramakrishna has told us, be easier for us in this difficult age to

cultivate our devotion, to embroider our lives with bhakti, bringing real,

living

wisdom to our actions and meaning to our meditations.

 

Yet we are all different creatures, and we enter into God's chambers through

different doors, according to our natures; God has given us so many ways!

we can grow and expand, I believe, by weaving all into our everyday lives.

[Guest guest]

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:

> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> bhakti -

> devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> practice

> and why?

 

Well, I suppose I might as well throw my two cents in, rather than

simply lurking in the background.

 

Many good points have been made already, and I will probably repeat

some of them. Hopefully I'll add something positive to the whole.

Though it may require more from you than you've a right to expect --

I have a tendency to be log-winded. I hope you'll forgive me if I am.

 

It seems a simple question at first, but becomes hopelessly complex

the more you consider it (like most issues in yoga and tantra I

think).

 

The four yogas Swamiji has placed before us can be looked at in

relation to their definitions as categories, in their relation to

divinity -- as spiritual qualities or attributes, and in their

relation to the individual sadhaka.

 

As a "yoga" each is a complete system of yoga sadhana. Each has its

own set of disciplines and structure. Each has the potential for God

realization, and therefore none is more important than another. They

are simply different means to the same end. Although, as others have

pointed out, bhakti seems the most accessable means, and by some

accounts is considered the easiest (though still not easy).

 

Each of these paths represents a divine quality or behavior. Shiva is

said to be continually absorbed in his own consciousness (dhyana and

jnana), while Shakti is continually lovingly serving all of creation

(karma), and both are locked in ecstatic embrace (bhakti).

 

In truth these categories are somewhat arbitrary when applied to

diety. Both Shiva and Shakti are always absorbed, always filled with

loving bliss, and always serving creation. They both are all that is

knowable. These categories represent samsara, the duality of

creation, and so represent processes more than they do ultimate

attributes of divinity, which are unified. And it is the unity we

strive to attain. It is that which allows us to live properly, fully,

unattached but fully engaged in duality, even as Shiva and Shakti are

both "here" and "not here" (I think).

 

In relation to the individual sadhaka, the goal of sadhana is yoga,

or ecstatic union with the divine. If I understand correctly, this

absorbtion in God brings about the fruition of all the qualities

these separate paths represent. The mountain is broad at the base and

has many paths, but they all end at the same place. The pinnacle of

the jnani's practice is not only supreme knowledge, but parabhakti

too, and visa versa. The sat guru is the best example of the

expression of these attributes. She is a fount of knowledge and

loving kindess, always serving others and often absorbed in, but

always filled with God's blissful love.

 

It's interesting to note that the four categories can be combined

into two: one dealing with the purification of the mind, and one with

the purification of the heart (though I realize it is a matter of

degree, not exclusion). This raises many questions in my mind about

the processes of purification in relation to the nadis and chakras

and the affects these disciplines of mind and heart have on the

subtle bodies -- how they differ and are interrelated, and how they

relate to the awakening of Kundalini.

 

(I know I went on too long -- I just don't know when to quit

sometimes)

 

(Sorry)

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris:

 

you said it! thank you for that thoughtful and thought-provoking

post.

 

I especially appreciated your comments on the ultimate union of the

paths--some of us tend to be suspicious of jnana yoga/advaita

because it seems dry or impersonal but, as you say,

>The pinnacle of

> the jnani's practice is not only supreme knowledge, but parabhakti

> too, and visa versa. The sat guru is the best example of the

> expression of these attributes. She is a fount of knowledge and

> loving kindess, always serving others and often absorbed in, but

> always filled with God's blissful love.

 

Shree Maa IS a wonderful, glorious example of this!

 

Another is found in the powerful story of Tota Puri, the advaitin

who instructed Ramakrishna, all the while mocking him for his

devotion to a "clay idol"...until the day Tota saw the full blazing

glory of Kali-Ma and fell down worshiping Her--I won't retell the

story b/c it's easily found in _The Gospel_ and in _Ramakrishna and

His Disciples_.

 

And many people don't know that Ramana Maharshi and his associate

Ganapati Muni were not only advaitins, but worshipped the Mother

very profoundly. All roads lead to God...

 

HH

[Guest guest]

Chris-Ji,

My Lama, Traktung Khepa Rimpoche gave me some teachings last January

on the inner yogas... mind you, not "the" teachings, but the

introduction to the teachings. And he said a very wonderful thing in

that conversation: "What is the mind, but the pranas flowing through

the nadis."

Since the gross body is an object of awareness... and even the subtle

bodies are "objects" of awareness, then the purification of the

elements Manas and Buddhi are of the nature of microcosmic

prana/karmic (vasana) interactions - as the Buddhi / Mahat

purification is of the nature of the macrocosm.

The whole structure "chakra/nadi" is an arrangement by which the yoga

Kundalini takes place. Kundalini Herself being Parashakti appearing

as Kundalini, as Prana, as Nadi. The resolution of that yoga is

bindu, the two becoming one... either as Kameshwari and Kamesvara, or

as red and white bindus, or as Shiva being subsumed into Lalita

Tripurasundari. But whatever "yoga view" and "yoga method" you

receive from your guru, the end game is Non-dual View, and that is

possible in a variety of final inner yogas, which start out using the

chakra/nadi structure present in the subtle body, as an object.

So I would call the Kundalini yoga part of the purification of the

mind... understanding mind as the body appearing within Manas,

Ahamkara, Buddhi.

What I understand about the "heart" is two things: From Dualistic

Bhakti yoga, where you need Devi in a form, in order to love and

serve her, the "heart" is really having no other love than the

beloved. More love than of self, etc. But from the Non-dual yoga, the

"heart" is bindu. And when bindu is All, then an explosion of love

rips through all appearances, and dances as the self-same radiant One

in all conditions.

Either way, purification of "mind" leads to purification of "heart,"

and vice versa. Or as my Guru Sri Karunamayi said, "If you master one

yoga, you master them all."

Love,

Jesse Arana,

Kailash.

www.meditationinfocus.com

chriskirner1956

[chriskirner1956 ] Sunday, September 21, 2003

9:58 AMSubject: Re: New

question to the group from Swamiji

, "Sarada" <sarada_saraswati>

wrote:> Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana -

wisdom, > bhakti - > devotion, and karma - activity, which is the

most important to > practice > and why?Well, I suppose I might as

well throw my two cents in, rather than simply lurking in the

background. Many good points have been made already, and I will

probably repeat some of them. Hopefully I'll add something positive

to the whole. Though it may require more from you than you've a right

to expect -- I have a tendency to be log-winded. I hope you'll forgive

me if I am.It seems a simple question at first, but becomes hopelessly

complex the more you consider it (like most issues in yoga and tantra

I think).The four yogas Swamiji has placed before us can be looked at

in relation to their definitions as categories, in their relation to

divinity -- as spiritual qualities or attributes, and in their

relation to the individual sadhaka.As a "yoga" each is a complete

system of yoga sadhana. Each has its own set of disciplines and

structure. Each has the potential for God realization, and therefore

none is more important than another. They are simply different means

to the same end. Although, as others have pointed out, bhakti seems

the most accessable means, and by some accounts is considered the

easiest (though still not easy).Each of these paths represents a

divine quality or behavior. Shiva is said to be continually absorbed

in his own consciousness (dhyana and jnana), while Shakti is

continually lovingly serving all of creation (karma), and both are

locked in ecstatic embrace (bhakti). In truth these categories are

somewhat arbitrary when applied to diety. Both Shiva and Shakti are

always absorbed, always filled with loving bliss, and always serving

creation. They both are all that is knowable. These categories

represent samsara, the duality of creation, and so represent

processes more than they do ultimate attributes of divinity, which

are unified. And it is the unity we strive to attain. It is that

which allows us to live properly, fully, unattached but fully engaged

in duality, even as Shiva and Shakti are both "here" and "not here" (I

think).In relation to the individual sadhaka, the goal of sadhana is

yoga, or ecstatic union with the divine. If I understand correctly,

this absorbtion in God brings about the fruition of all the qualities

these separate paths represent. The mountain is broad at the base and

has many paths, but they all end at the same place. The pinnacle of

the jnani's practice is not only supreme knowledge, but parabhakti

too, and visa versa. The sat guru is the best example of the

expression of these attributes. She is a fount of knowledge and

loving kindess, always serving others and often absorbed in, but

always filled with God's blissful love.It's interesting to note that

the four categories can be combined into two: one dealing with the

purification of the mind, and one with the purification of the heart

(though I realize it is a matter of degree, not exclusion). This

raises many questions in my mind about the processes of purification

in relation to the nadis and chakras and the affects these

disciplines of mind and heart have on the subtle bodies -- how they

differ and are interrelated, and how they relate to the awakening of

Kundalini.(I know I went on too long -- I just don't know when to

quit sometimes)(Sorry)ChrisTo from this group, send an

email to:Your use of

Groups is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Om Gurubyo Namah, Om Paramagurubhyo Namah, Om Paraaparagurubhyo Namah, Om

Paramesthigurubyo Namah

 

By the grace and love of Guru we all get to meet once again. I would like to

Thank Mata-ji Saradhama for inviting me and taking care of this wonderfull

group.

 

As we all know when we love unconditionally someone we will begin to find out

what this person likes and don't like, where this person came from, where this

person is now and all the other stuff. As time goes by we will begin to practise

this knowladge and try to impress this person. Soon we begin to concentrate on

this person and it always seems that everything else cease to exsist. It is

really impossible for one to fall in love and not find out about the person, do

whatever he or she likes and stop thinking or concentrating of this wonderfull

person.

 

Nowdays (kali's yuga) the sense of duality is more than oneness. It is so

difficult to controll the mind. The tricks it plays are all so amazing and yet

it is never satisfied. Wisdom, activity and meditation are all realated to the

mind. Eventhough is is not impossible but it is extreamly difficult to direct

the mind to search for wisdom, preform activity and sit for meditation.

Eventhough if we try to do it by force it most of the times do not last.

 

The phrase "Fall in love" shows that it is something that happens beyond the

controll of the mind becouse we do not fall intensionally. Pure unconditional

love should be cultivated all the time because it will help us so much in the

"battle" with the Mind. Thus I think Bhakti (devotion) is very improtant to be

practised because with Bhakti all the rest will follow in this age. Please

correct me if I am wrong...

 

My humble salutations to Swami-ji Maharaj.

[Guest guest]

I don't really know what I am, and I really don't care that I don't

have a label. I know I'm not a jnani because I don't have that

caliber of intellect. I don't think I'm a true bhakta either. And I'm

definitely not a karma yogini.

 

But I will tell you that years ago I had the experience of the heart

opening for a few minutes and it was the most divinely ecstatic

experience I've ever had. In that moment I saw that God had become

everything in the Universe and there was such an upwelling of love in

me that nothing compares to it. This was not ordinary,

egocentric "human" love. It's the type of love that needs nothing

from no one. It's so full it pours out onto everything and expects

nothing in return. For that moment, I suspect I experienced what a

saint experiences all the time.

 

Unfortunately, I could not maintain that state and quickly contracted

down to my "normal" small self. I do KNOW that if I could live from

that state of Divine Love, it would transform my life here into

Paradise. If only I could stay in that state!!!

 

Astraea

 

, "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...>

wrote:

> on one level it depends--on the practitioner's

> samskaras/personality/abilities. there are great jnanis who would

> have made lousy bhaktas, and vice-versa. some people find bhakti

> patently absurd, but they try a little dhyana and experience God

> profoundly.

>

> still, I do lean in the same direction as Gauri--the _Gita_ and Sri

> Ramakrishna both show that from bhakti all the other yogas can

grow.

> bhakti is the base note, the key in which the Song is played. to go

> out on a limb, it seems that bhakti, even more than meditation,

puts

> us in touch with the essential nature of Satchitananda (if such

> an "essential nature" can really be said to exist!)...

> HH

>

>

>

> , "Sarada"

<sarada_saraswati>

> wrote:

> > Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

> > bhakti -

> > devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

> > practice

> > and why?

[Guest guest]

namaste, if i may, when i read your post, i thought that's not true! (bear with

me here) i think even if i study just a bit, i'm jnana, maby not a good one,

because i don't study enough! but a little, and when i wake up BEFORE my one

year old and get to chant gayatri while the sun rises, i'm a bhakti, even for

that day....see where i'm going with this? a dear friend told me once that she

is a buddhist, she said, not a very good perhaps, but one all the same. (she was

smiling) i felt that she was so right!

 

i study, i pray,i do what i can to help those in need in my community,

selflessly, and on ocassion, get to my hatha class. i am yogini! perhaps not a

very good one, but one just the same(wink).

 

om shanti

chandra mani

 

 

In a message dated Sat, 4 Oct 2003 6:08:19 PM AEST, "astraea2003"

<astraea2003 writes:

>I don't really know what I am, and I really don't care that I don't

>have a label. I know I'm not a jnani because I don't have that

>caliber of intellect. I don't think I'm a true bhakta either. And I'm

>definitely not a karma yogini.

>

>But I will tell you that years ago I had the experience of the heart

>opening for a few minutes and it was the most divinely ecstatic

>experience I've ever had. In that moment I saw that God had become

>everything in the Universe and there was such an upwelling of love in

>me that nothing compares to it. This was not ordinary,

>egocentric "human" love. It's the type of love that needs nothing

>from no one. It's so full it pours out onto everything and expects

>nothing in return. For that moment, I suspect I experienced what a

>saint experiences all the time.

>

>Unfortunately, I could not maintain that state and quickly contracted

>down to my "normal" small self. I do KNOW that if I could live from

>that state of Divine Love, it would transform my life here into

>Paradise. If only I could stay in that state!!!

>

>Astraea

>

>, "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...>

>wrote:

>> on one level it depends--on the practitioner's

>> samskaras/personality/abilities. there are great jnanis who would

>> have made lousy bhaktas, and vice-versa. some people find bhakti

>> patently absurd, but they try a little dhyana and experience God

>> profoundly.

>>

>> still, I do lean in the same direction as Gauri--the _Gita_ and Sri

>> Ramakrishna both show that from bhakti all the other yogas can

>grow.

>> bhakti is the base note, the key in which the Song is played. to go

>> out on a limb, it seems that bhakti, even more than meditation,

>puts

>> us in touch with the essential nature of Satchitananda (if such

>> an "essential nature" can really be said to exist!)...

>> HH

>>

>>

>>

>> , "Sarada"

><sarada_saraswati>

>> wrote:

>> > Of the four types of yoga, dhyan - meditation, jnana - wisdom,

>> > bhakti -

>> > devotion, and karma - activity, which is the most important to

>> > practice

>> > and why?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>