Part I for Astraea

October 5, 2003

Hi Astraea,

I found it interesting that you could see a real Rebirther when you

read my post. Alot of rebirthers lately have changed the technique so

that the shakti is not as powerful in the body or they combine it with

hypnosis. Either way, birth trauma healing is avoided unless it's

done correctly. I think alot of Rebirthers who have not

re-experienced their birth and 'breath release' feel overwhelmed with

the idea of birth trauma and so it gets avoided when other methods are

used in the process. It's kind of like cutting a pure essential oil

with a synthetic, not quite right. Being innovative is good so long

as the person is really breathing. So how could you identify that I

was a real one?

Yes, I have found tradition yantra worship very detailed. My

boyfriend has been worshiping yantra's from boyhood as a tantric

shaman and I receive alittle information on them here and there. I

have a 3x3 Kali Yantra on my altar that I painted with oils, very

beautiful. Each petal, circle, square all has significance, however

my understanding of them is still very green, but I like them and I

like painting them.

Yes, the cyber satsanga is wonderful. I agree, so many personalities

and so many different experiences, it's wonderful to share and learn

so much with devotee's.

I'm sorry about your experience with Siddha. I do think that even in

culty environments we learn alot more than we bargain for and our

eye's are wide open after that, albeit abit traumatized, but if you

think about the lessons, they were most likely deep ones that you

will never forget.

I started studying tarot at 12, astrology at 13, was introduced to the

Goddess at 17 by a female shaman. At 20 I met, well what would I call

him... An enigmatic, crazy, highly intelligent Western Mystery

teacher. We didn't call him Guru, but he was like one. It was a

small eclectic group of initiates, shamans and we were very tight.

He was powerful in creating a group that was very dedicated to

enlightenment and Ma. The teachings were invaluable on how to focus

and how to apply energy to your desired goal, which for me, was

enlightenment. Once I discovered rebirthing, I applied the Western

Mystery Kabbalah applications to Rebirthing and then created my own

sadhana. On my own I learned hatha yoga and did the purifications

that Len Orr advised, fasting,chanting Gods name, breathing, bathing,

sitting by the fire, affirmation. On top of that I created my own

rituals for sending out my intent, did vision

quests and anything else that would stretch me. At 24, my teachers

karma changed and so therefore I had to make a change by leaving the

group.

To back up alittle, I studied Opera from 12-21 and in a flash was

discusted with the fame of it all. I have an iron will and so my

goal for those 12 years was the Met in NY. I was ready at 21, but Ma

was calling me, so I put all my strength into sadhana instead. So

instead of learning foreign languages, paino, Opera's and scripts, I

decided to focus on Ma. She did it though, she made me. Callings

are like that so I became obsessed with the shakti in Rebirthing and

surrounded it with traditional sadhana. The combination was amazing.

Still to this day, if I don't use them both, the energetic results

are not the same.

I met a Swami in the last 3 years and was enveloped by his grace and

that was a new experience. He is my diksa Guru. I almost renounced

2 years ago but the convent wasn't for me. I would eventually like

to create my own rebirthing ashram where people can do sadhana along

with rebirthing. I love Spiritual Life and love being around

devotee's, however I'm not much into dogma at all, so being at a

traditional ashram felt too confining. I remember spending time at

the convent crying in my room for 4 hours because it wasn't for me.

I wanted it to be for me, but it wasn't, not there or yet anyway.

The spiritual practices that I feel will always be apart of my sadhana

are yoga-all forms, rebirthing -wet and dry rebirthing, sweat lodges -

they are incredible!, vision quests, ayurveda. Anything extremely

purifying. Once I learn the Chandi that will be apart of it too.

In a nutshell, I'm solitary now with my sadhana. My boyfriend teaches

yantra workshops and puja once a week so I learn vedic chanting from

him. I do my own vision quests in Arizona or the mountains in SCal.

I like to be alone in the richness of the desert. I am blanketed in a

shamanic tradition and I will be facilitating sweat lodges myself,

most likely with a eastern twist once I learn more. Since sweats are

done monthly it's hard to make it a daily sadhana to learn it fast, so

it will take a few years before I am grounded in leading a group

sweat. It's a very beautiful practice, putting ego aside, praying in

the womb of Maa and sweating the impurities on all levels out of your

being. I have a tendancy to get ungrounded so the sweats are good

for me and most everyone actually.

I will check out your other email and respond to that too....

astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Kelly!Thanks for your detailed post. I've read your posts with

great interest. You're a rebirther and it sounds like you're a real

one. I think breathwork is worth exploring.It looks like traditional

Yantra worship is a complicated thing. I'll have to get my notes out

on the different ways there are on how to worship the Yantra. I was

hoping for a clear & simple method.I'm not in Southern Cal or

anywhere near. Have lived in many different places (no, my family was

NOT military -- usually the next question). I am currently living in

the Deep South and am quite isolated. This idea of having

cyber-satsang is brilliant and a real boon to isolates like me.No, I

do not have a physical Guru anymore. I was in a cult called Siddha

Yoga for about 12 years, then the article in "The New Yorker" (14

November 1994 I

think) came out and I knew the reporter was telling the truth. Swami

Muktananda was a very powerful Kundalini yogi who I believe was also

a sorcerer. (He admitted to having studied with Black Magicians in

his youth.) In public, Swami Muktananda would promote celibacy and

all the traditional yogic values. In private he had a specially built

table for his sex rites with underage girls, as well as women. He

would steal their energies. No real Satguru would have to resort to

such rituals. But these rituals are well known among sorcerers. He

allowed people to worship him as a Satguru.When I realized what he

was & what Gurumayi was, I took refuge at the feet of the Sufi

masters. I was initiated into the International Sufi Order

(non-Muslim).To be continued.Astraea--- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Hi

Astrea,> >

Namaste. In response to your question of brass yantra's here is what

I have witnessed> Swami's doing: Puja to the diety in the yantra.

Rudran2 mentioned taking up puja and this is the traditional way of

worshiping the yantra. The yantra is a geometric formulation of the

diety and just as powerful, however in traditional Hinduism, one

would perform puja to the yantra as if it were a murti. I know some

devotee's use it as a talisman which is leaning more on the 'sorcery'

side, however this would be up to the individual and the Guru one has.

To find a Guru that teaches you how to manipulate the energies in the

Yantra is rare and most would not disclose that information. However,

I think it might be a great step to either find a Guru who can teach

you puja or provide you with some mantra's. Since the yantra's are

worshiped, as a bhakti, surrendering to the Diety is what is common

just

as if you were standing in front of a murti of Ma. Yantra's are no

different. Most devotee's are 'into' the karma's that Ma provides

and the sadhana, purification that comes from> Her ordeals.

Bhakti's love to surrender. For me, I tried to maniplate all my

karma especially when I was young. It was a waste of energy...

Loving Ma and surrendering was my best bet and the most fulfilling,

otherwise one spends their time dancing around the lesson instead of

learning it. The ego loves to manipulate and to think it's in

charge. Maybe if you pray to Ma on how to use the yantra the right

teacher for you will appear? > > Imagine this: Visualize Ma on

her tiger and you on her lap. As she does battle with your demon's

or karma you are uneffected because you are on her Lap and no one is

going to come close to Chandi when you are on her lap, are

they? Besides, when you are absorbed in your Ma, you don't even

notice the battle going on. Surrender is the hardest thing to

understand what it really is. It's not sacrifice or giving up. It's

the ultimate in Shraddha. Once surrendered, Ma will decide to either

give you the boon on knowing the intracacies of the yantra or she

will chose a different karma /dharma for you.> Trust that the right

thing is coming your way. Do you have a Guru?> > Hope this helped.

Namaste and welcome to the group! Are you in southern Cal?> >

KellyTo from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

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October 7, 2003

, "astraea2003" <astraea2003>

wrote:

> So many fascinating paths to explore &

> too little time. I feel I need to focus on a particular system and

> attempt to master that.

Namaste astraea,

Yes! It is absolutely necessary to pick a path/system and focus on

that until one has reached their goal, whatever That may be.

One Sivaya Subramuniyaswami often pointed out that the problem with

folks in the so-called "New Age" movement is that they would take a

little bit of this, a little that, some asanas, some astrology, some

crystals, some paganism and then call it their path, but really end up

going nowhere...they just kind of circle the mountain without really

moving closer to the peak.

The saying is true that "Paths are many, God is one." All paths lead

to God -- some wind their way up the mountain, exploring everything

along the way, others take the direct route. But if we keep jumping

from one path to another, we will surely get lost.

So, you are right in your feeling that you need to focus on a

particular system and master it. You will know when you have the right

path for you.

Best Wi

October 7, 2003

See my comments below. If I step out of the chat over the next few days just

know it's because I have jury duty starting tomorrow:( I work swings so my sleep

will be changed over the next week I have a feeling..)astraea2003

<astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Kelly,I have only gone to one rebirther (who was not only a phoney

rebirther, but a phoney Reiki "Master") and one Vivation practioner

(Vivation is an off-shoot of Rebirthing). Neither were effective. It

sounds like whatever you're doing actually triggers emotional

cleansing & the dissolution of emotional blocks.

****** The best rebirthers are the one's who have not adulterated the

technique. It's about healing birth trauma and that trauma is

non-linear. It's instinct and all feeling. One will only 'go there'

when there is safety and usually there is only safety during a

rebirthing session when the rebirther has gone there herself. Many

people are learning rebirthing without ever getting to the breath

release and therefore feel uncomfortable with the feelings that come

up especially if they are non-verbal and the person can't figure out

mentally why those emotions and feelings are there. So instead of

leading the client to that deep deep place, they let the client

breath shallow,talk alot and then the client wonders what it was all

about and feels cheated afterwards. The deeper and fuller, more

surrendered the breath, the more profound the breath release. I

recommend 'Rebirthing in the New Age'. Don't let the title fool you.

A

guru cannot take a person to the goal if he has not gone there

himself. Same for rebirthing. Birth trauma is deeeeeep and goes

into life/death issues, hense rebirth. After you get thru the breath

release where you re-experience your very first breath in this

incarnation physiologically, then the subventalation is healed.

After that is when I recommend clients to do yoga because if you have

a person who thinks they know all there is about pranayama, they will

try and control the rebirthing becuase they think they know better.

"I'm a Yogini! I'm a Trathalon Runner! I am a Monk! I am a Virgo!

I'm a this and I'm a that" One has to be empty, to let go of what

they think they know in order to understand and do the technique

correctly. This is why if a person does yoga, I really watch them

closely for any controling of the breath. One yogi I wrote who also

does rebirthing describes it as this: Pranayama is

square, masculine. Rebirthing is circular, feminine. You count and

hold and control in pranayama. In rebirthing you do none of that,

you let go of all control so that the breathing mechanism can heal

itself and you can have abundant energy in your body. After that,

pranayama is effortless and meditation much deeper.I'm printing out

your story: it's a fascinating one. I'm glad there is someone here of

a very spiritually eclectic, creative, non-traditional type. There are

infinite paths to God (as you know). I'm attracted to so many

different things.

******* Thank you:) I'm eclectic yes. I do the things that were the

most profound for me and drop the things that do not work. Going up

the mountain, if we carried all our trinkets we'd never get there.

Same for extraneous techniques that clutter the mind. If it isn't

profound and reach deeply in you, drop it by the wayside. Every

technique needs maintenance so chose your techniqes wisely so you can

concentrate on one or two only and see what comes from it.

How wonderful that you are able to sing!!! Such a gift! You must have

a powerful, beautiful voice to undergo operatic training -- not just

for any voice!

******** I love to sing especially for God, That is why I so badly

want to learn the Chandi so that I can get into that 'place' again

using my voice.

I'm fascinated by Astrology too. I started out in Western Astrology

using the Tropical Zodiac, but NOW I'm convinced that Vedic Astrology

using the Sidereal Zodiac is the way to go.The Swami who initiated

you, which organization or path?

******* Swami Chetanananda of the Vedanta Society St. Louis. The path

is Ramakrishna and very traditional. My Guru is a sweet soul.

I have some books on Kabbalah, but it just seems like such a complex

system. It's one of those paths I'd love to study eventually.

******* If you get the right books, it will be easy. One of the best

is Dion Fortune's The Mystical Qahalah. It's a book for practical

Qabalah - the esoteric Qabalah, not the literal dogmatic Qabalah. It

explained so much of Christianity to me because I am not dogmatic. It

made Christ a mystic for me and example instead of a savior. Most

Rabbis teach the literal dogmatic Qabalah. The Zohar is a wonderful

book to read in combination to The Mystical Qabalah. Learning Hebrew

is good and you can use the Atu's for that. Shamanism is fascinating

too! So many fascinating paths to explore & too little time. I feel I

need to focus on a particular system and attempt to master that. If I

only knew which path to choose?!

******* Be careful with shamanism. There is loads of supersition in

that path. Demons and Angels. People take it very seriously that

these beings are outside themselves, when quite frankly, they aren't.

Everything in the Chandi is our Life. If we go into denial, then the

demons and angels are outside of us. We deny our responsibility as

sadhaka's. We attract what we are and if our inner life is demonic

we will see spooks here and there and be running from the devil and

demons thinking everyone else is the problem doing a puja for this

and that because the demons wants our shakti and then running to the

angels mad they aren't there when they should be. If we are pure and

simple, we are angelic. If we are in denial and selfish and self

absorbed we are demonic. (And I really don't like to use those words

for how often they are misused) The energies in us can attract the

energies of other realms - yes that is true

too. So, shamanism for me is transformational techniques and learning

from All that is. Rebirthing is often used by modern shamans because

of how profound it is. Learning from Animals, Nature, People, God.

Collecting and healing our fragmented parts to make whole. aka -

Yoga.

******* Make a list of the things that draw you. Make a list of your

spiritual goals and then go from there. If you get antsy and want to

jump to something else.. don't. Find out what is on the otherside of

that antsy feeling that makes one want to float on the top of the

water instead of diving deep down to the bottom. Every technique has

a surface and a depth. Ask what is the fear of sticking to one or two

techniques for a while? You have all the time in the world, Astrea...

really you do. The illusion is that you don't. In reality we are

Immortals. Cling to that thought and dive deep. You are safe and

immortal right now and it's safe to dive deep. Are you a gemini?

What part of the south are you in? Namaste:) Now, off to bed and Jury

Duty. We'll see if I can get out of it:)

Kelly

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October 7, 2003

I agree completely. If we have established a firm foundation in one

basic method, we become free to explore the varieties of experience,

but we must never do so to the exclusion of our chosen path. Life is

short but the night is vast.

ChrisRolando Santos <sivadancer > wrote:

, "astraea2003" <astraea2003>

wrote:> So many fascinating paths to explore & > too little time. I

feel I need to focus on a particular system and > attempt to master

that.Namaste astraea,Yes! It is absolutely necessary to pick a

path/system and focus on that until one has reached their goal,

whatever That may be. One Sivaya Subramuniyaswami often pointed out

that the problem with folks in the so-called "New Age" movement is

that they would take a little bit of this, a little that, some

asanas, some astrology, some crystals, some paganism and then call it

their path, but really end up going nowhere...they just kind of circle

the mountain without really moving closer to the peak.The saying is

true that "Paths are many, God is one." All paths lead

to God -- some wind their way up the mountain, exploring everything

along the way, others take the direct route. But if we keep jumping

from one path to another, we will surely get lost.So, you are right

in your feeling that you need to focus on a particular system and

master it. You will know when you have the right path for you.Best

WiTo from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

The New with improved product search

October 9, 2003

astraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Hi Kelly,Hope you don't get tied up with jury duty. The Vedanta

Society is a safe bet for spiritual guidance -- very respected. I

have a copy of Dion Fortune's "The Mystical Qabalah" which I have

never read. Yes, Shamanism can be loaded down with superstition.My

signs according to Western Astrology (Tropical Zodiac): Sun in Aries,

Moon in Gemini, Scorpio rising.My signs according to Vedic Astrology

(Sidereal Zodiac), the one I use and identify with: Libra rising,

Moon in Taurus (Rohini), Sun in Pisces.Which are your

signs?Astraea, Kelly Leeper

<blissnout> wrote:> Hi Astrea,> > See my comments below. If I

step out of the chat over the next few days just> know it's because I

have jury duty starting tomorrow:( I

work swings so my sleep> will be changed over the next week I have a

feeling..)> > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> > Hi Kelly,> I

have only gone to one rebirther (who was not only a phoney >

rebirther, but a phoney Reiki "Master") and one Vivation practioner >

(Vivation is an off-shoot of Rebirthing). Neither were effective. It >

sounds like whatever you're doing actually triggers emotional >

cleansing & the dissolution of emotional blocks.> > ****** The best

rebirthers are the one's who have not adulterated the technique.

It's about healing birth trauma and that trauma is non-linear. It's

instinct and all feeling. One will only 'go there' when there is

safety and usually there is only safety during a rebirthing session

when the rebirther has gone there herself. Many people are learning

rebirthing without ever getting to the breath