Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I'll be the first to say the drama on this website is intriguing. Much to learn from not only in the substance of the post, but the reactions too. I'm learning alot because people are dedicated and sticking to this process. When I have seen drama at temples, people blow up and go home and stay there for a few months to heal, so this is good. The safety element of working through the drama is very very good. I think we all have drama to some degree, even enlightened masters appeared dramatic and their disciples thought they were getting caught in it, however they weren't- they say, who's to know. Astraea mentioned Satguru rooted in Turiya. Now, I believe Ramakrishna was a SatGuru rooted in Turiya, but his life was incredibly dramatic. Is the drama of his path any different than someone elses? I know I'm asking for it here, and it will create more drama do doubt...but it's still a good question to ponder. Now with that being said, I have a question for the Swami's of the group and everyone else. I've asked my own Guru this question too and I do have my own views. What is the difference between Self Esteme and Pride? If someone has a healthy Self Esteme will they forever be eluded to the supreme Goal because they have a healthy Self View? What is Pride? Ramakrishna stated that we should expect the Divine Mother to provide and Gratefulness was not needed. Did he really mean that? Wasn't that Pridefull? Possibly Arrogant or was he describing a bhava that one can cultivate? In the Native American tradition being grateful is Number One! If the devotee cannot be grateful then the problem lies with the Devotee. It's interesting to see all the paths and how they agree or disagree on these points. All I know is that expecting the Divine Mother to provide is total dependancy and perfectly wonderful. I also know that when I go into Gratefulness, I have more to give as I am grateful for what I have. I can identify what has been given to me by Mother. Personally, I don't think Ramakrishna is any different than anyone else when it comes to the dramatics of the devotee. What is important to him we can fairly say could be important to another devotee. But is the drama different? Ramakrishna was going to commit suicide without Ma's vision. How would that go over today??? In the west??? Interested in everyones comments... Yes, I'm stirring the pot and well aware of it, but I love to hear the tidbits..... Jai Maa! Kelly Kelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote: Karen, Let us know how it goes, please. It's funny how Astraea see's the Chandi as daunting, but I see what your about to take up as daunting:) How bold to learn it from scratch. Very impressed. Good luck! Namaste, Kellykbbookbag <karenborak (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: ***Arjuna, Thank you so very much for taking the time to recommend this web site. It is exactly what I am looking for, and I just finished placing an order. The flash cards are perfect. They are the first flash cards that I have seen that contain the transliteration along with the Devanagri, and I think they will make a good beginner's tool.All Love,Karen***--- In , Arjuna <arjunaacharya> wrote:> I wanted to recommend the americansanskrit.com as a place where people can begin their study of this language. I am still very much a beginner, but have found Vyaas Houston's works helpful. I would love to do his intensives. My wife and I did a weekend with him some years back and it was wonderful. He helps you to get a clear sense of the sounds in the introductiory tapes. There is really no substitute for learning the Devanagri alphabet. There are many different subtle sounds. It takes a while to hear the difference for instance even between the a and the aa sound or between the two types of sh sounds. I read an article recently that there are a group of scholars compiling the definitive sanskrit dictionairy. They have been at it for over 50 years and just completed the first letter! It is wonderful to even begin, and I try to offer what ever I learn at the feet of my guru and isthas. > Pranams and good luck with your studies and devotions. > Arjuna> > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> Kelly, thanks for your input. The audio approach works great for > auditory learners, and I wish I were one. However, I am > predominantly a visual learner so I need to be able to see the words > to say them correctly. Unfortunately, the transliteration is very > hard for me because I can't say what I see. (Does that make > sense?) So there is where I am looking for help. To learn how to > pronounce the transliteration letters, especially with their many > and various diacritical markings. I listen to the Chandi cd a lot, > but I really need a sort of bookish support to make it "take root" > in this recalcitrant mind of mine. Thanks again.> > All Love,> Karen> > --- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Karen,> > > > I'm new to the chanting the Chandi too. I learn by means of > hearing it over and over, so I play the chapter I'm learning over > and over. I put it on repeat and will listen for a day and then see > what my subconscious picked up by listening. The mind will pick up > the flow that way and then pronunciation is easier. When I learned > various operas in italien, french, german I would pronouce each word > about 5 times to get it. After practicing 1 italian song, the rest > get more 'oiled' and it's easier to learn.> > > > I've noticed with learning the Chandi over the last 2 weeks when I > started, that my learning is getting 'oiled', my tongue is flowing > with less effort and it's coming quite fast actually. I've > surprised myself. I would like to learn in 3 months time, but we'll > see what MaChandi has in store for me. The chapters are not that > long actually. If you break them down and learn 1 chapter every 2-3 > days it should be easier if you listen to Maa chant over and over > and over. At first Maa's chanting slowing seemed fast for me, but > when you listen like a broken record all day long, it comes. Your > mind will remember and pick it up faster. If you jump right in > without listening to it it will be more laborious I have found.> > > > I'm definately curious to find out how others approached learning > this work as I am> > learning it.> > > > Namaste,> > Kelly> > > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> > Hello, Lynne,> > > > I read your experience with chanting the Chandi Path with great > > interest. Can you offer some advice to a novice to the Chandi > > regarding pronunciation? Perhaps you might know of a > > reference/resource to help with pronouncing the transliteration > (not > > learning Sanskrit per se). I listened to the online Chandi Path > > class from Devi Mandir and I have their CD, but they, of course, > > chant in a natural manner for them, which is too fast for me to > > learn from. Sooo...I have been searching for help. I searched > > endlessly online with little more than a list of the letters and > > sparse pronunciation keys. Might you know of something more? > > Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer.> > > > All Love,> > Karen> > > > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > Do you ?> > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Kelly, In my view, an aspirant is grateful during the period she is practicing. Because she yet lacks the direct experience of the fullness of her relationship with the divine, gratitude is a sattwic means of expressing her separation, or lack of pure knowledge, an expression which engenders faith and promotes continued progress toward her goal of complete knowledge or unity, when gratitude becomes unnecessary (I think). When a normal mother cares for her child, the child feels no need to thank his mother, nor does she feel abused if he does not. This is because of the love they have, one for the other. The mother feeds her child out of love. The child in turn loves his mother more and more, not for the sake of the food, or the care, but for the sake of the love expressed through these things. It is love calling to love. On the issue of Ramakrishna, believing he was fully enlightened, I do not believe he was controlled by his personality; he used his personality as a tool to accomplish his divine purpose. An enlightened person "loses" his ego when he ascends. But an ego is required in order to interact as an individual being. A fully purified ego, as I understand it, is an ego under complete control of its possessor. It has become an effective tool of a higher consciousness. It remains, however, an ego with a distinct personality, and so differences remain between masters despite their high estate. Kelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote: Hello All, I'll be the first to say the drama on this website is intriguing. Much to learn from not only in the substance of the post, but the reactions too. I'm learning alot because people are dedicated and sticking to this process. When I have seen drama at temples, people blow up and go home and stay there for a few months to heal, so this is good. The safety element of working through the drama is very very good. I think we all have drama to some degree, even enlightened masters appeared dramatic and their disciples thought they were getting caught in it, however they weren't- they say, who's to know. Astraea mentioned Satguru rooted in Turiya. Now, I believe Ramakrishna was a SatGuru rooted in Turiya, but his life was incredibly dramatic. Is the drama of his path any different than someone elses? I know I'm asking for it here, and it will create more drama do doubt...but it's still a good question to ponder. Now with that being said, I have a question for the Swami's of the group and everyone else. I've asked my own Guru this question too and I do have my own views. What is the difference between Self Esteme and Pride? If someone has a healthy Self Esteme will they forever be eluded to the supreme Goal because they have a healthy Self View? What is Pride? Ramakrishna stated that we should expect the Divine Mother to provide and Gratefulness was not needed. Did he really mean that? Wasn't that Pridefull? Possibly Arrogant or was he describing a bhava that one can cultivate? In the Native American tradition being grateful is Number One! If the devotee cannot be grateful then the problem lies with the Devotee. It's interesting to see all the paths and how they agree or disagree on these points. All I know is that expecting the Divine Mother to provide is total dependancy and perfectly wonderful. I also know that when I go into Gratefulness, I have more to give as I am grateful for what I have. I can identify what has been given to me by Mother. Personally, I don't think Ramakrishna is any different than anyone else when it comes to the dramatics of the devotee. What is important to him we can fairly say could be important to another devotee. But is the drama different? Ramakrishna was going to commit suicide without Ma's vision. How would that go over today??? In the west??? Interested in everyones comments... Yes, I'm stirring the pot and well aware of it, but I love to hear the tidbits..... Jai Maa! Kelly Kelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote: Karen, Let us know how it goes, please. It's funny how Astraea see's the Chandi as daunting, but I see what your about to take up as daunting:) How bold to learn it from scratch. Very impressed. Good luck! Namaste, Kellykbbookbag <karenborak (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: ***Arjuna, Thank you so very much for taking the time to recommend this web site. It is exactly what I am looking for, and I just finished placing an order. The flash cards are perfect. They are the first flash cards that I have seen that contain the transliteration along with the Devanagri, and I think they will make a good beginner's tool.All Love,Karen***--- In , Arjuna <arjunaacharya> wrote:> I wanted to recommend the americansanskrit.com as a place where people can begin their study of this language. I am still very much a beginner, but have found Vyaas Houston's works helpful. I would love to do his intensives. My wife and I did a weekend with him some years back and it was wonderful. He helps you to get a clear sense of the sounds in the introductiory tapes. There is really no substitute for learning the Devanagri alphabet. There are many different subtle sounds. It takes a while to hear the difference for instance even between the a and the aa sound or between the two types of sh sounds. I read an article recently that there are a group of scholars compiling the definitive sanskrit dictionairy. They have been at it for over 50 years and just completed the first letter! It is wonderful to even begin, and I try to offer what ever I learn at the feet of my guru and isthas. > Pranams and good luck with your studies and devotions. > Arjuna> > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> Kelly, thanks for your input. The audio approach works great for > auditory learners, and I wish I were one. However, I am > predominantly a visual learner so I need to be able to see the words > to say them correctly. Unfortunately, the transliteration is very > hard for me because I can't say what I see. (Does that make > sense?) So there is where I am looking for help. To learn how to > pronounce the transliteration letters, especially with their many > and various diacritical markings. I listen to the Chandi cd a lot, > but I really need a sort of bookish support to make it "take root" > in this recalcitrant mind of mine. Thanks again.> > All Love,> Karen> > --- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Karen,> > > > I'm new to the chanting the Chandi too. I learn by means of > hearing it over and over, so I play the chapter I'm learning over > and over. I put it on repeat and will listen for a day and then see > what my subconscious picked up by listening. The mind will pick up > the flow that way and then pronunciation is easier. When I learned > various operas in italien, french, german I would pronouce each word > about 5 times to get it. After practicing 1 italian song, the rest > get more 'oiled' and it's easier to learn.> > > > I've noticed with learning the Chandi over the last 2 weeks when I > started, that my learning is getting 'oiled', my tongue is flowing > with less effort and it's coming quite fast actually. I've > surprised myself. I would like to learn in 3 months time, but we'll > see what MaChandi has in store for me. The chapters are not that > long actually. If you break them down and learn 1 chapter every 2-3 > days it should be easier if you listen to Maa chant over and over > and over. At first Maa's chanting slowing seemed fast for me, but > when you listen like a broken record all day long, it comes. Your > mind will remember and pick it up faster. If you jump right in > without listening to it it will be more laborious I have found.> > > > I'm definately curious to find out how others approached learning > this work as I am> > learning it.> > > > Namaste,> > Kelly> > > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> > Hello, Lynne,> > > > I read your experience with chanting the Chandi Path with great > > interest. Can you offer some advice to a novice to the Chandi > > regarding pronunciation? Perhaps you might know of a > > reference/resource to help with pronouncing the transliteration > (not > > learning Sanskrit per se). I listened to the online Chandi Path > > class from Devi Mandir and I have their CD, but they, of course, > > chant in a natural manner for them, which is too fast for me to > > learn from. Sooo...I have been searching for help. I searched > > endlessly online with little more than a list of the letters and > > sparse pronunciation keys. Might you know of something more? > > Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer.> > > > All Love,> > Karen> > > > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > Do you ?> > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Glad to talk to you again:) I understand your words as I hear these explanations all the time from Swami's but it doesn't do it for me. Remember Ramakrishna stating that Ma gives the devotee a grain of sugar. What does the devotee need with the whole bag if the Mother gives but one taste? Knowing that there is different kinds of sweetness, knowing Ma might only give a morsel to the devotee, (Brown sugar as opposed to powdered sugar or or molases) should still keep the Brahmanjnani in Awe of the Ultimate and forever in gratefulness. To think that element goes out the window after enlightenment does not ring true. Ma is so much bigger than the Brahmanjnani. Our universe is just a morsel of her wonder, enough to keep me in Awe even after I am a Brahmanjnani, when that day comes. Gratefulness is not "thank you Ma'am, mighty abliged" with the tip of a hat. It's the amazing beauty of and reverence of all that IS. If the Brahmanjnani thinks his knowledge of Brahman is the end, he is mistaken. I do think Ramakrishna had a tinge of ego left, how else could anyone enlightened tell their disciples to hiss at people thru their own fearful projections? Why not just tell them to walk away-ahimsa, instead of project a wound or assumption? Why not sit, be present and listen and advise? Again, I think part of his ego was also influenced by the superstition that is rampant in the east. I am very emotional with Ma however I will be very circumspect when studying the Masters and will also take into account their ego or humaness when determining if their character was absolutely impeccable. I'm sure his intention was purer than Pure. I don't think his ego was under complete control after his enlightenment or series's of samadhi. Does that make him less-than? Absolutely not. Does that mean his experiences were not true? Absolutely not. Also, the Holy Mother said, Ramakrishna did reject people but Her as the emodiment of the Mother would never do that, how can She turn anyone away? If these people who came to see him were psycho's and out to kill him, that would be one thing, but my understanding is that they were curious and wanted grace, maybe didn't have the best karma's, but still wanted to see the Master for themselves. I see no harm in that, but he did. Is he still enlightened? Yes. Did Ma give him powers? Yes. Was he the wish fulfilling tree? Only for those who weren't hissed at. chris kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Kelly, In my view, an aspirant is grateful during the period she is practicing. Because she yet lacks the direct experience of the fullness of her relationship with the divine, gratitude is a sattwic means of expressing her separation, or lack of pure knowledge, an expression which engenders faith and promotes continued progress toward her goal of complete knowledge or unity, when gratitude becomes unnecessary (I think). When a normal mother cares for her child, the child feels no need to thank his mother, nor does she feel abused if he does not. This is because of the love they have, one for the other. The mother feeds her child out of love. The child in turn loves his mother more and more, not for the sake of the food, or the care, but for the sake of the love expressed through these things. It is love calling to love. On the issue of Ramakrishna, believing he was fully enlightened, I do not believe he was controlled by his personality; he used his personality as a tool to accomplish his divine purpose. An enlightened person "loses" his ego when he ascends. But an ego is required in order to interact as an individual being. A fully purified ego, as I understand it, is an ego under complete control of its possessor. It has become an effective tool of a higher consciousness. It remains, however, an ego with a distinct personality, and so differences remain between masters despite their high estate. Kelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote: Hello All, I'll be the first to say the drama on this website is intriguing. Much to learn from not only in the substance of the post, but the reactions too. I'm learning alot because people are dedicated and sticking to this process. When I have seen drama at temples, people blow up and go home and stay there for a few months to heal, so this is good. The safety element of working through the drama is very very good. I think we all have drama to some degree, even enlightened masters appeared dramatic and their disciples thought they were getting caught in it, however they weren't- they say, who's to know. Astraea mentioned Satguru rooted in Turiya. Now, I believe Ramakrishna was a SatGuru rooted in Turiya, but his life was incredibly dramatic. Is the drama of his path any different than someone elses? I know I'm asking for it here, and it will create more drama do doubt...but it's still a good question to ponder. Now with that being said, I have a question for the Swami's of the group and everyone else. I've asked my own Guru this question too and I do have my own views. What is the difference between Self Esteme and Pride? If someone has a healthy Self Esteme will they forever be eluded to the supreme Goal because they have a healthy Self View? What is Pride? Ramakrishna stated that we should expect the Divine Mother to provide and Gratefulness was not needed. Did he really mean that? Wasn't that Pridefull? Possibly Arrogant or was he describing a bhava that one can cultivate? In the Native American tradition being grateful is Number One! If the devotee cannot be grateful then the problem lies with the Devotee. It's interesting to see all the paths and how they agree or disagree on these points. All I know is that expecting the Divine Mother to provide is total dependancy and perfectly wonderful. I also know that when I go into Gratefulness, I have more to give as I am grateful for what I have. I can identify what has been given to me by Mother. Personally, I don't think Ramakrishna is any different than anyone else when it comes to the dramatics of the devotee. What is important to him we can fairly say could be important to another devotee. But is the drama different? Ramakrishna was going to commit suicide without Ma's vision. How would that go over today??? In the west??? Interested in everyones comments... Yes, I'm stirring the pot and well aware of it, but I love to hear the tidbits..... Jai Maa! Kelly Kelly Leeper <blissnout > wrote: Karen, Let us know how it goes, please. It's funny how Astraea see's the Chandi as daunting, but I see what your about to take up as daunting:) How bold to learn it from scratch. Very impressed. Good luck! Namaste, Kellykbbookbag <karenborak (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: ***Arjuna, Thank you so very much for taking the time to recommend this web site. It is exactly what I am looking for, and I just finished placing an order. The flash cards are perfect. They are the first flash cards that I have seen that contain the transliteration along with the Devanagri, and I think they will make a good beginner's tool.All Love,Karen***--- In , Arjuna <arjunaacharya> wrote:> I wanted to recommend the americansanskrit.com as a place where people can begin their study of this language. I am still very much a beginner, but have found Vyaas Houston's works helpful. I would love to do his intensives. My wife and I did a weekend with him some years back and it was wonderful. He helps you to get a clear sense of the sounds in the introductiory tapes. There is really no substitute for learning the Devanagri alphabet. There are many different subtle sounds. It takes a while to hear the difference for instance even between the a and the aa sound or between the two types of sh sounds. I read an article recently that there are a group of scholars compiling the definitive sanskrit dictionairy. They have been at it for over 50 years and just completed the first letter! It is wonderful to even begin, and I try to offer what ever I learn at the feet of my guru and isthas. > Pranams and good luck with your studies and devotions. > Arjuna> > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> Kelly, thanks for your input. The audio approach works great for > auditory learners, and I wish I were one. However, I am > predominantly a visual learner so I need to be able to see the words > to say them correctly. Unfortunately, the transliteration is very > hard for me because I can't say what I see. (Does that make > sense?) So there is where I am looking for help. To learn how to > pronounce the transliteration letters, especially with their many > and various diacritical markings. I listen to the Chandi cd a lot, > but I really need a sort of bookish support to make it "take root" > in this recalcitrant mind of mine. Thanks again.> > All Love,> Karen> > --- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Karen,> > > > I'm new to the chanting the Chandi too. I learn by means of > hearing it over and over, so I play the chapter I'm learning over > and over. I put it on repeat and will listen for a day and then see > what my subconscious picked up by listening. The mind will pick up > the flow that way and then pronunciation is easier. When I learned > various operas in italien, french, german I would pronouce each word > about 5 times to get it. After practicing 1 italian song, the rest > get more 'oiled' and it's easier to learn.> > > > I've noticed with learning the Chandi over the last 2 weeks when I > started, that my learning is getting 'oiled', my tongue is flowing > with less effort and it's coming quite fast actually. I've > surprised myself. I would like to learn in 3 months time, but we'll > see what MaChandi has in store for me. The chapters are not that > long actually. If you break them down and learn 1 chapter every 2-3 > days it should be easier if you listen to Maa chant over and over > and over. At first Maa's chanting slowing seemed fast for me, but > when you listen like a broken record all day long, it comes. Your > mind will remember and pick it up faster. If you jump right in > without listening to it it will be more laborious I have found.> > > > I'm definately curious to find out how others approached learning > this work as I am> > learning it.> > > > Namaste,> > Kelly> > > > kbbookbag <karenborak@e...> wrote:> > Hello, Lynne,> > > > I read your experience with chanting the Chandi Path with great > > interest. Can you offer some advice to a novice to the Chandi > > regarding pronunciation? Perhaps you might know of a > > reference/resource to help with pronouncing the transliteration > (not > > learning Sanskrit per se). I listened to the online Chandi Path > > class from Devi Mandir and I have their CD, but they, of course, > > chant in a natural manner for them, which is too fast for me to > > learn from. Sooo...I have been searching for help. I searched > > endlessly online with little more than a list of the letters and > > sparse pronunciation keys. Might you know of something more? > > Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer.> > > > All Love,> > Karen> > > > > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > Do you ?> > The New with improved product search> > > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product searchTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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