Gurus: Inner & Outer

[Guest guest]

Chris,

You did a superb job of explaining this complex topic!!

 

I numbered your paragraphs to make it easier to refer to them.

 

Your paragraph #6 on the Guru Gita: yes, it does address the

Universal Guru. Yes, I think most people need a physical Guru to help

them over the last hurdles. In fact, it may be that the presence of a

physical Guru becomes MORE important as the aspirant draws closer to

the final goal. In other words, a seeker who is just beginning the

search may get along just fine with Spiritual Guides on the subtle

planes. Obviously, I'm not referring to people who are born fully

realized.

 

Your paragraph #8 on the "spiritual aspirant without a Gurudeva often

wanders aimlessly amongst the shallows, never venturing out into the

depths". This is soooo true! Especially among those of us into New

Age things. (Guilty!)

 

Your paragraph #10 on the transmission of Shakti during diksha is so

true. I've worked with mantras straight out of a book and with

mantras that are chaitanya (enlivened) by the Shakti of one who has

mastered that mantra, and there is no comparison. A chaitanya mantra

will bear fruit quickly.

 

Your paragraph #11 on unbalanced Christian monks who did their

sadhana in isolation, reminded me of the stories from "Riding The

Lion" (Kyriacos Markides {sp?}) of many monks (Greek Orthodox) on Mt

Athos who had literally gone mad in isolation.

 

Your paragraph #13 on egotism is very true. On the other hand, if you

can't trust your own judgment, whose can you trust? There are people

who are too ready to give away their power. (Too many examples of

people getting sucked into destructive cults -- blind obedience is

scary.) I also understand & respect the arguments Kelly & Brian have

put forth on this topic. A many-sided topic and a question that does

NOT have a simple "yes or no" answer.

 

Astraea

 

, chris kirner

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

Dearest Kelly,

 

1. Please don't feel I'm ganging-up on you, but I'm afraid I have to

largely agree with Jesse this time.

 

2. Astraea was right when she said this is a very complex topic. I

think a lot of the problem with mutual understanding in this issue is

the same as I think Brian was having in his earlier discussions on

the psychology of spiritual living; it's a question of levels.

 

3. We all know we are Sat, Chit, Ananda. On that level, we are all-

knowing, all-powerful, ever blissful. The difficulty is that as much

as we cling to the idea of our true nature, we don't experience

ourselves that way (only in the most limited sense). In the same way

we imagine all the objects and attributes in creation to be ours by

right (and they are), but again, we find, when push comes to shove,

that we can't access them (or, again, only in a limited way).

 

4. Pandit Tigunait gave this example once, and I liked it: The

Advaitan may travel around the world giving lectures on the reality

of our nature as pure consciousness, but he still has to board a

plane to get to his next lecture.

 

5. Swami Rama used to write that a person first has parents who feed,

protect, and raise him; then he has teachers who teach him how to

live in the world, but after that comes the gurudeva, who introduces

him to himself. He also used to write that the purpose of the

external guru is to lead you to the guru within. Yet Swamiji was very

devoted to his gurudeva, by all accounts, and continued to be guided

by him, despite his own advanced state, until he dropped his body

(and likely after).

 

6. It is my belief that the Guru Gita is actually addressing the

universal gurudeva. This is not to exclude the individual gurudeva,

but rather points again to the problem of levels. Guru is everywhere,

but so is consciousness. If we can't access consciousness at the

highest levels, what makes us think we can access the universal

gurudeva? To do so we need an individual gurudeva.

 

7. Knowledge is available to anyone with the ability to retrieve it

(or so I am given to understand). How many of us would attempt to

practice medicine through attunement rather than go to a medical

school? Just so, to learn the path of spiritual knowledge we should

go to a gurudeva. The spiritual path is at least as difficult and

complex as medicine.

 

8. The gurudeva is part of the natural order. The child who is

without a family is called an orphan, and may grow-up wounded at

heart. The spiritual aspirant without a gurudeva often wanders

aimlessly amongst the shallows, never venturing out into the depths.

Only the gurudeva can lead the student through the veils of fear and

confusion for he has gone before and knows the way.

 

9. The gurudeva isn't alone. She is one in a long chain of guides

stretching back to the beginning. She is a custodian of the stream of

knowledge that flows from that source in its subtle form as shakti.

In bestowing diksha, she bestows that shakti.

 

10. The grace of god is said to flow equally to all. Some are able to

accept it, some are not. According to Pandit Tigunait, once an

aspirant is initiated the forces of nature, the various shaktis,

recognize him. Mantras become potent, with their innate shaktis

responding to the flow of shakti from the tradition, manifesting

through the student. Having been initiated yourself, you should

recognize this.

 

11. It is true that some rise to great heights without a gurudeva. In

the Christian tradition there have always been saints who did not (or

at least seemed not to) have a gurudeva. Many however, became

unbalanced from their practices, and their superstitions,

hallucinating all manner of demons and other things. Many other

Christian monks, I believe, simply didn't get very far because they

lacked the necessary guidance and spiritual force.

 

12. Particularly in the path of bhakti, one can get by without a

gurudeva. There are many sages, I think, whose duty and joy it is to

help such people (as I have been) in secret. Still, I think their

help is limited by the capacities of the aspirant, who may not be

able to perceive or fully utilize aid given on a subtle level. But,

though one may be able to get by without a gurudeva, I must

ask...why? The only answer can be ego.

 

13. Only someone with an agenda rooted in egotism would choose to

struggle in relative isolation, risking failure, when the presence of

the gurudeva in one's life makes the path so much easier, clearer,

and surer.

 

14. I know you have a beloved gurudeva. I know you have been blessed

and know the value of your spiritual guide. In our culture there is a

strong current of individualism despite the fact that we rely on

others for everything. The idea that our relationship with God is

ours alone, achieved alone, and maintained alone, is extreme. The

gurudeva is as important to our spiritual development as parents and

teachers are to our life in the world. The sat guru is a force of

nature. The Divine Teacher in human form. Jai Gurudeva!

 

Chris