Transmission and Pseudo Guru's

October 15, 2003

I wanted to ask what Swami, Sarada, Shree Maa and everyone else here

what they think constitutes a transmission? This will clear things

up for me in order to understand the semantics people use.

Are there really pseudo Guru's? If the disciple is learning from the

bitter and the sweet, it was still a lesson GURU presented to the

disciple. I understand in the beginning when it's normal for the

disciple to not have much discernment and might think their teacher

has reached the highest, but maybe not as time shows us.

However, I can say, before I met my diksa guru I had already done 95%

of the sadhana of what I have now learned. There wasn't much more my

Guru advised me on that was new. Does this make any previous teacher

who was not Brahmanjnani a Pseudo Guru? I don't think so.

I know if we get hurt by 'the pseudo Guru' it's easy to not forgive

and have the "hissing" that some devotee's have advised to do,

however that won't help the disciple heal what really happened or to

cultivate the awareness that it was really GURU aiding the disciple

with some bad habits of not thinking before leaping. My first

teacher was a crazy Guru. My God I learned so much from him, more

than any other, however he taught me much more in how he treated me

and I him. I saw what to do many times and I saw what not to do many

times. He inspired intensity from his disciples, but to some he may

have been a pseudo Guru for whatever reason. I did see GURU thru him

and still I am so thankful for the sweet and bitter lessons. I have

grown from them both.

Just idea's to chew on. And I would love to hear about transmissions.

Exoteric and esoteric.

Jai Ma!

Kelly

kanna krishnan <kanna_krishnan2002 > wrote:

Pranam to all,

Guru Brahma Guru Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswara

Guru EVA Parabrahma Tasmai Shri Guruve Namaha

Guru Brahma Guru Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswara

Guru SAKSHAT Parabrahma Tasmai Shri Guruve Namaha

Note the different words used. I feel the meaning is the same but the

defination changes according to one's experience or spritual

maturity.

One Avadhoot was asked how many Guru he has for which he answered 22.

If we go by the defination Guru as "Dispeller of Darkness" then all

those who have assisted in illuminating knowledge would be considered

guru. I feel all the gurus that we meet in life are actually

projection of the Supreme Guru thorough them, I always felt Maa out

of love for Her sincere devotees manifest through any forms to teach

us .

As for seeking of bonefide master I strongly adhered to philosopy of

sikhsa before diksha.Bhagawan says when the flower is ready then the

bee would come for the honey.

We must practice sadhana and if our heart is truly sincere and

yearning for Her ,She would manifest through a living Guru for us .

As for those who had bad experiences with pseudo gurus I have gone

through that painful phase and I beleive it made me rather than break

me .For those of you searching for bonafide guru ,please remember

Shree Maa,s explanation in Preface of Guru Gita on surrendering to

Guru.

Maa thank you for manifesting as various gurus teaching me through my

life and thank you for finally manisfesting as my Sat Guru

too.............

I love you Maa...................

Jai Maa!!!

Gauri <gaurima108 > wrote:

Namaste Kailash,I loved your post.Jai Maa--- In

, "Jesse Arana" <jessearana@c...> wrote:>

Namaste, > > My Guru is the one who held me and shook me in the air,

saying, "You!> You. Stop being so spiritual. Be an ordinary, sane

human being. Go to> therapy. Get a job."> > My Guru is the one who

softly comforted me, saying, "It doesn't matter> how many lifetimes

you take. I will be here for you."> > My Guru is the one who drew me

back into the practices, after I had> abandoned them.> > My Guru is

the one who invited me into Her home.> > My Guru is the one who

giggled softly, and smiled when I asked for a> mantra. Then opened my

eyes and whispered the Gayatri into my

nadis.> > My Guru is the one who blessed me with the seva of coming

back lifetime> after lifetime after lifetime, to serve all beings.>

> My Guru is One. He is Buddhist, She is Hindu. He is Dorje Trollo.

She is> Saraswati. He is Mahasiddha Sabara. She is Karunamayi.> >

Jesse Arana (Kailash)> www.meditationinfocus.com> > > >

> Sarada

[sarada_saraswati] > Monday, October 13, 2003 3:33

PM> > Question

for the group> > > What is the meaning of the Guru and is it

necessary to have a Guru > in order to reach the Supreme Divinity? >

> > > > Sponsor > > > >

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October 15, 2003

Namaste Kelly,

I had a "pseudo-guru" who I feel, as you do, was not really a "pseudo-

guru" but the guru in a form different than what was "expected"

or "proper" or "scripturally correct."

I asked Guru if I had been initiated. He replied that every moment

that I was around him was an initiation or transmission. It didn't

have to be a special mantra whispered into the left ear or some

special fire ceremony. It was simply sitting there, being around him,

and learning from his words, his silence, his action, and his non-

action.

Indeed some of the best things that are learned are not conscious,

but rather subconscious moldings and remoldings that occur without

our being aware of it. Over time, these subconcious things come to

manifest slowly and imperceptibly, like the trees that at one moment

were green and then slowly without our even noticing, have become the

awesome blazing colors of fall.

AUM

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

wrote:

> Namaste Everyone,

>

> I wanted to ask what Swami, Sarada, Shree Maa and everyone else

here what they think constitutes a transmission? This will clear

things up for me in order to understand the semantics people use.

>

> Are there really pseudo Guru's? If the disciple is learning from

the bitter and the sweet, it was still a lesson GURU presented to the

disciple. I understand in the beginning when it's normal for the

disciple to not have much discernment and might think their teacher

has reached the highest, but maybe not as time shows us.

>

> However, I can say, before I met my diksa guru I had already done

95% of the sadhana of what I have now learned. There wasn't much

more my Guru advised me on that was new. Does this make any previous

teacher who was not Brahmanjnani a Pseudo Guru? I don't think so.

>

> I know if we get hurt by 'the pseudo Guru' it's easy to not

forgive and have the "hissing" that some devotee's have advised to

do, however that won't help the disciple heal what really happened or

to cultivate the awareness that it was really GURU aiding the

disciple with some bad habits of not thinking before leaping. My

first teacher was a crazy Guru. My God I learned so much from him,

more than any other, however he taught me much more in how he treated

me and I him. I saw what to do many times and I saw what not to do

many times. He inspired intensity from his disciples, but to some he

may have been a pseudo Guru for whatever reason. I did see GURU thru

him and still I am so thankful for the sweet and bitter lessons. I

have grown from them both.

>

> Just idea's to chew on. And I would love to hear about

transmissions. Exoteric and esoteric.

>

> Jai Ma!

> Kelly

>

> kanna krishnan <kanna_krishnan2002> wrote:

> Pranam to all,

>

> Guru Brahma Guru Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswara

> Guru EVA Parabrahma Tasmai Shri Guruve Namaha

>

> Guru Brahma Guru Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswara

> Guru SAKSHAT Parabrahma Tasmai Shri Guruve Namaha

>

> Note the different words used. I feel the meaning is the same but

the defination changes according to one's experience or spritual

maturity.

>

> One Avadhoot was asked how many Guru he has for which he answered

22. If we go by the defination Guru as "Dispeller of Darkness" then

all those who have assisted in illuminating knowledge would be

considered guru. I feel all the gurus that we meet in life are

actually projection of the Supreme Guru thorough them, I always felt

Maa out of love for Her sincere devotees manifest through any forms

to teach us .

>

> As for seeking of bonefide master I strongly adhered to philosopy

of sikhsa before diksha.Bhagawan says when the flower is ready then

the bee would come for the honey.

>

> We must practice sadhana and if our heart is truly sincere and

yearning for Her ,She would manifest through a living Guru for us .

As for those who had bad experiences with pseudo gurus I have gone

through that painful phase and I beleive it made me rather than break

me .For those of you searching for bonafide guru ,please remember

Shree Maa,s explanation in Preface of Guru Gita on surrendering to

Guru.

>

> Maa thank you for manifesting as various gurus teaching me through

my life and thank you for finally manisfesting as my Sat Guru

too.............

>

> I love you Maa...................

>

> Jai Maa!!!

>

> Gauri <gaurima108> wrote:

>

> Namaste Kailash,

> I loved your post.

> Jai Maa

> , "Jesse Arana" <jessearana@c...>

> wrote:

> > Namaste,

> >

> > My Guru is the one who held me and shook me in the air,

> saying, "You!

> > You. Stop being so spiritual. Be an ordinary, sane human being.

Go

> to

> > therapy. Get a job."

> >

> > My Guru is the one who softly comforted me, saying, "It doesn't

> matter

> > how many lifetimes you take. I will be here for you."

> >

> > My Guru is the one who drew me back into the practices, after I

had

> > abandoned them.

> >

> > My Guru is the one who invited me into Her home.

> >

> > My Guru is the one who giggled softly, and smiled when I asked

for

> a

> > mantra. Then opened my eyes and whispered the Gayatri into my

> nadis.

> >

> > My Guru is the one who blessed me with the seva of coming back

> lifetime

> > after lifetime after lifetime, to serve all beings.

> >

> > My Guru is One. He is Buddhist, She is Hindu. He is Dorje Trollo.

> She is

> > Saraswati. He is Mahasiddha Sabara. She is Karunamayi.

> >

> > Jesse Arana (Kailash)

> > www.meditationinfocus.com

> >

> > Sarada [sarada_saraswati]

> > Monday, October 13, 2003 3:33 PM

> >

> > Question for the group

> >

> > What is the meaning of the Guru and is it necessary to have a

Guru

> > in order to reach the Supreme Divinity?

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

>

<http://rd./M=244522.3707890.4968055.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1

> 705

> >

>

075991:HM/A=1595056/R=0/SIG=124p07ne0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutai

> tak

> > enattogyo?YH=3707890&yhad=1595056> Click Here!

> >

> > <http://us.adserver./l?

> M=244522.3707890.4968055.1261774/D=egrou

> > pmail/S=:HM/A=1595056/rand=711278908>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> The New with improved product search

> Sponsor

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> The New with improved product search

October 16, 2003

My teacher was what is more like a Crazy Guru and he would use force.

As Ramakrishna says, if the devotee won't take the medicine, He will

force it down you.

He didn't like spoon feeding the intitiates because he intensly

inspired us to reach for Ma on our own. But occasionally if we

didn't get it, Wham! Boom! Ouch - that energy...wow! Sometimes

for days I would feel it... Like Gauri said, The Guru who gets in

your face....I was lucky to have a teacher like that for a

while...but either to my detriment, karma or his, it was too much

after a while, hense continual learning of letting go of PGuru or

dependacy on the Person and walking on your own. That is another

lesson all aspirants have to learn. I'm learning it again and I

think it's a cycle, dependancy and then independance, dependancy and

then independance. Children do have to learn how to walk and then

become spiritual adults, responsible while still knowing their a

Child of Ma's.

Glad to know you had a similar experience with GURU in desquise. Namaste,

KellyRolando Santos <sivadancer > wrote:

Namaste Kelly,I had a "pseudo-guru" who I feel, as you do, was not

really a "pseudo-guru" but the guru in a form different than what was

"expected" or "proper" or "scripturally correct."I asked Guru if I had

been initiated. He replied that every moment that I was around him was

an initiation or transmission. It didn't have to be a special mantra

whispered into the left ear or some special fire ceremony. It was

simply sitting there, being around him, and learning from his words,

his silence, his action, and his non-action.Indeed some of the best

things that are learned are not conscious, but rather subconscious

moldings and remoldings that occur without our being aware of it.

Over time, these subconcious things come to manifest slowly and

imperceptibly, like the trees that at one moment were green and then

slowly

without our even noticing, have become the awesome blazing colors of

fall.AUM, Kelly Leeper

<blissnout> wrote:> Namaste Everyone,> > I wanted to ask what

Swami, Sarada, Shree Maa and everyone else here what they think

constitutes a transmission? This will clear things up for me in

order to understand the semantics people use.> > Are there really

pseudo Guru's? If the disciple is learning from the bitter and the

sweet, it was still a lesson GURU presented to the disciple. I

understand in the beginning when it's normal for the disciple to not

have much discernment and might think their teacher has reached the

highest, but maybe not as time shows us.> > However, I can say,

before I met my diksa guru I had already done 95% of the sadhana of

what I have now learned. There wasn't much more my

Guru advised me on that was new. Does this make any previous teacher

who was not Brahmanjnani a Pseudo Guru? I don't think so. > > I

know if we get hurt by 'the pseudo Guru' it's easy to not forgive and

have the "hissing" that some devotee's have advised to do, however

that won't help the disciple heal what really happened or to