Helen Keller

October 27, 2003

As we all know, Helen Keller was blind. She had various teachers try

to teach her and they all gave up. At that time, braile was not

invented and they considered blind people as the 'lost cause'. The

authorities, due to their lack of insight, judged Helen Keller

because of her condition and learning disability.

Then comes along the Truely Comassionate Guru, who at all costs tries

to understand Helen. She did not come to Helen Keller and demand

that she learn this way and that and that she have Faith to prove her

willingness to learn. Helen Keller wanted to learn, but it took

extreme love for the Guru to love her and teach her according to her

abilities.

This is where Guru's are no different. All disciples want to learn,

that is the nature of most people seeking. If the Guru becomes

Authoritarian and considers the disciple a lost cause because the

disciple didn't surrender in the exact way the Guru wanted them to,

then the Guru is ineffective. What is going to work with this one

student? What does she need to hear in order for her to open up?

What do I need to cultivate in order to service her the way she will

understand? This is when the Guru may beed to behave unorthodox so

that the student will learn.

Here's an example of mine: I failed algebra 2 years in a row, passed

the 3rd year with a C. All teachers thought I wasn't studying. They

thought I would goof off after school. (Little did they know I was

learning Opera 3-4 hours per day) but I would still do 2 hours of

algebra at night. I tried so hard and felt so inept that I couldn't

understand.

It wasn't until I was 18 that I decided to apply for a teller position

at a Bank. My mother said, "OK, Kelly - here are some math problems,

basic math, lets see how you do because you will be tested." Mom put

some figures down on paper for me. She watched me as I added,

subtracted, mulitplied and divided. Then all of a sudden, "Kelly!

What are you doing!!!????" You are carrying wrong, honey, don't you

know how to carry your numbers over??" Then I said, "Mom, this is

the way I always did it. This is how you carry the left over." Then

mom said, "No, that is not the way, here let me show you." then she

showed me.

Can you believe all 3 teachers of albegra thought me to be unable to

learn and judged me harshly because THEY never saw my math in action?

They never looked to find where I was making the mistake, where I

didn't understand. Was it my fault? No, it was the teachers. They

should be watching to see where the student is not getting it.

Instead the assumed I didn't want to learn. It was they who had the

teaching disability, they didn't care enough to find out I was

dislexic.

This story relates to the Guru. Disciples want to learn, but if the

Guru is who they say they are, then they should have enough

compassion to learn what the student will need and enough to give it

attention. Helen Keller became great because of her teacher. Her

teacher submitted herself to Helen in order to learn from Helen so

that she could teach Helen. How many Guru's do that today? From

what I see, Guru's think the disciple is the lost cause if they don't

'get it'. That is the sad thing....

The idea that there are many Guru's but few disciples means the Guru's

didn't care enough for the disciple and the disciples had to move on

to find another way.

We are all trying our hardest. The last thing a devotee needs to hear is that it's their problem.

I hope I was heard correctly. I have worked with people at all levels

in the business world, from CIO's to the mailroom and I don't treat

any of them differently. This goes for Guru's. I will love them,

but the relationship needs to be a partnership, not a masichistic

one.

I'm innovative and look the the untired ways - what works. Tradition

for it's own sake can be ineffective.

Jai Maa!

Kelly

Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

October 28, 2003

Hi Kelly,

I think your reference to Annie Sullivan--Helen Keller's teacher--is beautiful.

Ever since I was a little girl, I have always loved Anne Sullivan, and would

read Helen Keller's story over and over because I loved the miracle of their

relationship so much! How tireless both were in their own way; but also,

if you read the story closely, you will see that until Helen released her old

ways to finally pay attention to Annie's persevering teachings, they got no

where! Helen fought and fought to stay the way she had been....and it was

painful for her parents to watch the struggle, so much so that Annie had to

demand their non interference while she began the slow task of teaching

Helen discipline--the desire to truly surrender to truth and knowledge.

At the same time, Annie had to call upon her own observations of Helen to be

a truly excellent teacher, as you point out in a way. But that is not enough,

it

can't be enough.

The "student" or "disciple" or "learner"--whatever you want to call

them--

has much to sacrifice in order to truly allow the teaching. Sometimes it feels

to

that "ego" (or the "I"-ness,the one who thinks they know) very painful, even

wrong. What a process! Trust is so key.....when I think back again on that

relationship between Anne and Helen, trust became the linch pin, and

it was on both sides....the student has to face themselves, and let go; the

teacher sees beyond overt behavior and gives teaching according to the

student's capacity. Both give attention to each other, which as it intensifies

becomes true love, which calls for sacrifice and is the impetus for change.

When there is that giving and receiving, and giving up and letting go, and so

on...how wonderful. Real "magic" then happens. I think many people hop

from teacher to teacher in the hopes that "this time,the teacher will understand

ME" sometimes not realizing they don't understand themselves yet, and may

be unwilling to sacrifice worn out ways of perceiving. Very, very difficult, I

believe; but also, the only way to sincerely learn one's self.

In the Rudrastadyayai, especially in chapter 8, it is so incredibly told:

all is in me--everything! and all depends on the sacrifice, which is in me too.

It remains for us to allow ourselves to be shown, or to see.

Jai satguru!

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:

> In addendum to my 2 emails regarding Guru and dsciple relationships, I will

tell the story of Helen Keller.

>

> As we all know, Helen Keller was blind. She had various teachers try to

teach her and they all gave up. At that time, braile was not invented and they

considered blind people as the 'lost cause'. The authorities, due to their lack

of insight, judged Helen Keller because of her condition and learning

disability.

>

> Then comes along the Truely Comassionate Guru, who at all costs tries to

understand Helen. She did not come to Helen Keller and demand that she

learn this way and that and that she have Faith to prove her willingness to

learn. Helen Keller wanted to learn, but it took extreme love for the Guru to

love her and teach her according to her abilities.

> This is where Guru's are no different. All disciples want to learn, that is

the

nature of most people seeking. If the Guru becomes Authoritarian and

considers the disciple a lost cause because the disciple didn't surrender in

the exact way the Guru wanted them to, then the Guru is ineffective. What is

going to work with this one student? What does she need to hear in order for

her to open up? What do I need to cultivate in order to service her the way

she will understand? This is when the Guru may beed to behave unorthodox

so that the student will learn.

>

> Here's an example of mine: I failed algebra 2 years in a row, passed the 3rd

year with a C. All teachers thought I wasn't studying. They thought I would

goof off after school. (Little did they know I was learning Opera 3-4 hours per

day) but I would still do 2 hours of algebra at night. I tried so hard and felt

so

inept that I couldn't understand.

> It wasn't until I was 18 that I decided to apply for a teller position at a

Bank.

My mother said, "OK, Kelly - here are some math problems, basic math, lets

see how you do because you will be tested." Mom put some figures down on

paper for me. She watched me as I added, subtracted, mulitplied and divided.

Then all of a sudden, "Kelly! What are you doing!!!????" You are carrying

wrong, honey, don't you know how to carry your numbers over??" Then I

said, "Mom, this is the way I always did it. This is how you carry the left

over."

Then mom said, "No, that is not the way, here let me show you." then she

showed me.

>

> Can you believe all 3 teachers of albegra thought me to be unable to learn

and judged me harshly because THEY never saw my math in action? They

never looked to find where I was making the mistake, where I didn't

understand. Was it my fault? No, it was the teachers. They should be

watching to see where the student is not getting it. Instead the assumed I

didn't want to learn. It was they who had the teaching disability, they didn't

care enough to find out I was dislexic.

>

> This story relates to the Guru. Disciples want to learn, but if the Guru is

who

they say they are, then they should have enough compassion to learn what

the student will need and enough to give it attention. Helen Keller became

great because of her teacher. Her teacher submitted herself to Helen in order

to learn from Helen so that she could teach Helen. How many Guru's do that

today? From what I see, Guru's think the disciple is the lost cause if they

don't

'get it'. That is the sad thing....

>

> The idea that there are many Guru's but few disciples means the Guru's

didn't care enough for the disciple and the disciples had to move on to find

another way.

> We are all trying our hardest. The last thing a devotee needs to hear is that

it's their problem.

>

> I hope I was heard correctly. I have worked with people at all levels in the

business world, from CIO's to the mailroom and I don't treat any of them

differently. This goes for Guru's. I will love them, but the relationship

needs to

be a partnership, not a masichistic one.

>

> I'm innovative and look the the untired ways - what works. Tradition for it's

own sake can be ineffective.

>

> Jai Maa!

> Kelly

>

> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

October 28, 2003

Thanks for pointing out her name, Annie Sullivan. I forgot it:)

I'm glad you see the link, because in so many ways, by conditioning,

the disciple is blind deaf and dumb. And at the same time, we can

all identify in the story what an effective Guru is vs an ineffective

one.

I think when the student moves on and feels the Guru failed it

certainly can he the disiples lack of committment or trust,

absolutely. It can also be the Guru's inabilty to be a really good

teacher. Have you ever noticed how some artists can do art

beautifuly and some can teach it wonderfully because they have the

gift of teaching? Some are better at just doing art. Some better at

teaching it. It's the same for Guru's. Some are better at being

leaders, but not good at teaching it. It's up to the student to

follow or find another teacher to help them with the nitty gritty. I

think we all assume the Guru automatically comes equiped with knowing

how to teach. This might never be the case with certain Guru's.

There might be Guru's who are awesome at teaching disciples but not

be viewed as a Guru. It's the art of teaching that I am getting at.

Just because the Guru made it to God, doesn't mean he can teach

it effectively. We can see this when the disciple leaves the ashram

and the Guru threatens that God will leave them or ruin their lives

because they are leaving God. (I have see this, yes and it's a

horrific sign to see a Guru act this way). I can understand the Guru

fustration that he feels the disciple didn't trust him, but I think it

can also be lack of teaching skills and I never condone any Guru

telling a disciple they are going to curse or place the disciple in

hell.

So yes, just as the disciple may not trust the Guru's lesson plan, the

Guru may not understand the disciple and misunderstand the behavior.

So that is what I am meaning. So many display the Guru like one must

completely follow the Guru even if he is abusive and if he thinks the

disciple deserved it. We see this in families where dad calls

children names and mom said they deserved it. I think this thinking

is leading the sadhaka and Guru to a dead end. It's this part of the

puzzle that no one questions. So, teaching according to how the

disciple can hear is very important. Even onlookers might think she

is being dispresectful and the Guru behaving irrationally if he has

to be unorthodox, but it's up to the Guru and Disciple and hopefully

one is learning to trust and the other not resting on Guru laurels.

When Brian mentions the affliction that needs to be healed, I see

Helen Keller as totally aflicted. The love of Annie, her committment

to Helen is what saved Helen. Helen had the affliction. It was up to

Annie to build the trust for such an afflicted person. If the Guru

see's each disciple as blind deaf and dumb without judgement, the

Guru can expand his teaching skills to reach the disciple. After

all, Helen's afflictions were natural and the reactions of soceity

were part of the wound. Annie had to prove she would not hurt Helen

any more before Helen would trust.

I'm glad you liked the story. It was my very first book report in 1st

grade:) I guess it made an impression:)

Jai Maa! Namaste,Kelly

nitya_ma <nitya_ma > wrote:

Hi Kelly,I think your reference to Annie Sullivan--Helen Keller's

teacher--is beautiful.Ever since I was a little girl, I have always

loved Anne Sullivan, and wouldread Helen Keller's story over and over

because I loved the miracle of their relationship so much! How

tireless both were in their own way; but also,if you read the story

closely, you will see that until Helen released her old ways to

finally pay attention to Annie's persevering teachings, they got no

where! Helen fought and fought to stay the way she had been....and

it was painful for her parents to watch the struggle, so much so that

Annie had to demand their non interference while she began the slow

task of teaching Helen discipline--the desire to truly surrender to

truth and knowledge.At the same time, Annie had to call upon her own

observations of

Helen to be a truly excellent teacher, as you point out in a way. But

that is not enough, it can't be enough.The "student" or "disciple" or

"learner"--whatever you want to call them--has much to sacrifice in

order to truly allow the teaching. Sometimes it feels to that "ego"

(or the "I"-ness,the one who thinks they know) very painful, even

wrong. What a process! Trust is so key.....when I think back again

on that relationship between Anne and Helen, trust became the linch

pin, andit was on both sides....the student has to face themselves,

and let go; the teacher sees beyond overt behavior and gives teaching

according to the student's capacity. Both give attention to each

other, which as it intensifies becomes true love, which calls for

sacrifice and is the impetus for change.When there is that giving and

receiving, and giving up and letting go, and so on...how wonderful.

Real

"magic" then happens. I think many people hop from teacher to teacher

in the hopes that "this time,the teacher will understand ME" sometimes

not realizing they don't understand themselves yet, and may be

unwilling to sacrifice worn out ways of perceiving. Very, very

difficult, I believe; but also, the only way to sincerely learn

one's self.In the Rudrastadyayai, especially in chapter 8, it is so

incredibly told:all is in me--everything! and all depends on the

sacrifice, which is in me too.It remains for us to allow ourselves to

be shown, or to see.Jai satguru!,

Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> In addendum to my 2 emails

regarding Guru and dsciple relationships, I will tell the story of

Helen Keller. > > As we all know, Helen Keller was blind. She had

various teachers try to teach her and they all gave

up. At that time, braile was not invented and they considered blind

people as the 'lost cause'. The authorities, due to their lack of

insight, judged Helen Keller because of her condition and learning

disability.> > Then comes along the Truely Comassionate Guru, who at

all costs tries to understand Helen. She did not come to Helen Keller

and demand that she learn this way and that and that she have Faith to

prove her willingness to learn. Helen Keller wanted to learn, but it

took extreme love for the Guru to love her and teach her according to

her abilities.> This is where Guru's are no different. All disciples

want to learn, that is the nature of most people seeking. If the

Guru becomes Authoritarian and considers the disciple a lost cause

because the disciple didn't surrender in the exact way the Guru

wanted them to, then the Guru is ineffective. What is going to work

with this one student? What does she need to hear in order for her to

open up? What do I need to cultivate in order to service her the way

she will understand? This is when the Guru may beed to behave

unorthodox so that the student will learn.> > Here's an example of

mine: I failed algebra 2 years in a row, passed the 3rd year with a

C. All teachers thought I wasn't studying. They thought I would

goof off after school. (Little did they know I was learning Opera

3-4 hours per day) but I would still do 2 hours of algebra at night.

I tried so hard and felt so inept that I couldn't understand. > It

wasn't until I was 18 that I decided to apply for a teller position

at a Bank. My mother said, "OK, Kelly - here are some math problems,

basic math, lets see how you do because you will be tested." Mom put

some figures down on paper for me. She watched me

as I added, subtracted, mulitplied and divided. Then all of a sudden,

"Kelly! What are you doing!!!????" You are carrying wrong, honey,

don't you know how to carry your numbers over??" Then I said, "Mom,

this is the way I always did it. This is how you carry the left

over." Then mom said, "No, that is not the way, here let me show

you." then she showed me.> > Can you believe all 3 teachers of

albegra thought me to be unable to learn and judged me harshly

because THEY never saw my math in action? They never looked to find

where I was making the mistake, where I didn't understand. Was it my

fault? No, it was the teachers. They should be watching to see where

the student is not getting it. Instead the assumed I didn't want to

learn. It was they who had the teaching disability, they didn't care

enough to find out I was dislexic. > >

This story relates to the Guru. Disciples want to learn, but if the

Guru is who they say they are, then they should have enough

compassion to learn what the student will need and enough to give it

attention. Helen Keller became great because of her teacher. Her

teacher submitted herself to Helen in order to learn from Helen so

that she could teach Helen. How many Guru's do that today? From

what I see, Guru's think the disciple is the lost cause if they don't

'get it'. That is the sad thing....> > The idea that there are many

Guru's but few disciples means the Guru's didn't care enough for the

disciple and the disciples had to move on to find another way.> We

are all trying our hardest. The last thing a devotee needs to hear is

that it's their problem.> > I hope I was heard correctly. I have

worked with people at all levels in the business world, from CIO's

to the mailroom and I don't treat any of them differently. This goes

for Guru's. I will love them, but the relationship needs to be a

partnership, not a masichistic one.> > I'm innovative and look the

the untired ways - what works. Tradition for it's own sake can be

ineffective.> > Jai Maa!> Kelly> > >

> > Exclusive Video

Premiere - Britney SpearsTo from this group, send an

email to:Your use of

Groups is subject to the

Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

October 30, 2003

Just so you know, Shree Maa and Swamiji are the most compassionate and

humble teachers I can imagine.

Ardis

Kelly Leeper <blissnout >

Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:49:15 -0800 (PST)

Helen Keller

In addendum to my 2 emails regarding Guru and dsciple relationships, I

will tell the story of Helen Keller.