Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 I have always noticed how the novice on the path goes from being a 4-legged 2, trying to go directly to Divine. They bypass the whole process of being a 2-legged, a human Being. It's amazing how a true Human Being is something to aspire to and most call our mistakes as being Human, "awe that's human nature". I think most of our trials are not humanness, but apart of our 4-leggedness. Human nature is being a True 2 Legged which is Divine. A Human Being is a Human who is Being. What Swamiji writes I can totally relate.. something in the english dictionary is ok if Being is at the end of Human:) Most of the time when I witness animals being, I am amazed at how REAL and BEAUTIFUL they are just BEING what they are. They are complete animals and not trying to be anything else, they do it perfectly. But humans will try and be something else all entirely before wanting to be Human or Humane. That's called a 4-legged 2. What makes us human is to be pondered. Animals have 'humans' to look up to in evolution, but do they know the Human is more evolved (supposedly)? As humans, we don't have another 'form' more evolved than us or do we? Do we just not see it like the animal doesn't see the human? Once the Human is enlightened, what can we compare ourselves to in evolution? Any idea's? Does the Animal know one day he might be a Human? Key: 2-leggeds are human beings 4-leggeds are animal beings Just idea's.... Namaste. Kellynitya_ma <nitya_ma > wrote: All of us have so many questions about living--how to live, right conduct,relationship to guru, relationship to each other, relationship to self.Lots of tough questions!Maa often talks about "being a true human being"--over time, I have puzzledover what she meant and tried to pay attention to this; I am still working on it.But Swamiji has recently shared with us about the sanskrit word"manush", used many times in the Chandi Path, particularly in the first chapterSwamiji broke down the word in different ways to try to give us a flavorfor it--man, for example, means mind. I do not have the rest of my notes with me this morning, butthe remainder of the word contained "witness, or observing" and'or"control"--essentially, Swamiji was saying, a true human being isthat being that has control of or witnesses the mind.When we no longer identify ourselves with our thoughts--when we finally understand who we really are--the witnesses--we begin to become areal human being--our true capacity is that! What a freedom!Chandi Path is showing us that path, in part. (as well as thedifficulties inherent in being, at all!)It brings to my mind stories from native american traditions, wheredistinction is made between "4-leggeds" and "2-leggeds" and realhuman beings. Walking on two legs doesn't make us human,necessarily. What really does is a good question to ponder.To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Dear Kelly, My after thought at the end of my post about legggs was probably ill thought out.. nevertheless, I get the gist of what you are saying, I think, and I do agree. However, I think our trials are not so much about our animal natures necessarily, though we can sure get caught up that easily, or stuck there, but more our conditioning to what we think it means to be "human" -- that is, as in "to err is__". We are easily conditioned, and then we can get caught in our box, and consider that to be normal, when actually it's just conditions. And that can reinforce the "ego", or the ignorance that comes from being attached. Understanding that helps us have compassion for ourselves and for others, I believe. The freedom of being a true human being--what a concept! And it's all right there, like Dorothy's ruby (or silver) slippers! Our Swamiji, as usual, points us in a certain direction; what a juicy, joyful journey. Love Nitya Ma , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Nitya Ma, > > I have always noticed how the novice on the path goes from being a 4- legged 2, trying to go directly to Divine. They bypass the whole process of being a 2-legged, a human Being. It's amazing how a true Human Being is something to aspire to and most call our mistakes as being Human, "awe that's human nature". I think most of our trials are not humanness, but apart of our 4-leggedness. Human nature is being a True 2 Legged which is Divine. A Human Being is a Human who is Being. What Swamiji writes I can totally relate.. something in the english dictionary is ok if Being is at the end of Human:) > > Most of the time when I witness animals being, I am amazed at how REAL and BEAUTIFUL they are just BEING what they are. They are complete animals and not trying to be anything else, they do it perfectly. But humans will try and be something else all entirely before wanting to be Human or Humane. That's called a 4-legged 2. What makes us human is to be pondered. Animals have 'humans' to look up to in evolution, but do they know the Human is more evolved (supposedly)? As humans, we don't have another 'form' more evolved than us or do we? Do we just not see it like the animal doesn't see the human? Once the Human is enlightened, what can we compare ourselves to in evolution? Any idea's? Does the Animal know one day he might be a Human? > > Key: 2-leggeds are human beings > 4-leggeds are animal beings > > Just idea's.... Namaste. > Kelly > > nitya_ma <nitya_ma> wrote: > All of us have so many questions about living--how to live, right conduct, > relationship to guru, relationship to each other, relationship to self. > Lots of tough questions! > Maa often talks about "being a true human being"--over time, I have puzzled > over what she meant and tried to pay attention to this; I am still working on it. > But Swamiji has recently shared with us about the sanskrit word > "manush", used many times in the Chandi Path, particularly in the first chapter > Swamiji broke down the word in different ways to try to give us a flavor > for it--man, for example, means mind. > I do not have the rest of my notes with me this morning, but > the remainder of the word contained "witness, or observing" and'or > "control"--essentially, Swamiji was saying, a true human being is > that being that has control of or witnesses the mind. > > When we no longer identify ourselves with our thoughts--when we finally > understand who we really are--the witnesses--we begin to become a > real human being--our true capacity is that! What a freedom! > Chandi Path is showing us that path, in part. (as well as the > difficulties inherent in being, at all!) > > It brings to my mind stories from native american traditions, where > distinction is made between "4-leggeds" and "2-leggeds" and real > human beings. Walking on two legs doesn't make us human, > necessarily. What really does is a good question to ponder. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Dear Kelly, My after thought at the end of my post about legggs was probably ill thought out.. nevertheless, I get the gist of what you are saying, I think, and I do agree. However, I think our trials are not so much about our animal natures necessarily, though we can sure get caught up that easily, or stuck there, but more our conditioning to what we think it means to be "human" -- that is, as in "to err is__". We are easily conditioned, and then we can get caught in our box, and consider that to be normal, when actually it's just conditions. And that can reinforce the "ego", or the ignorance that comes from being attached. Understanding that helps us have compassion for ourselves and for others, I believe. The freedom of being a true human being--what a concept! And it's all right there, like Dorothy's ruby (or silver) slippers! Our Swamiji, as usual, points us in a certain direction; what a juicy, joyful journey. Love Nitya Ma , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Nitya Ma, > > I have always noticed how the novice on the path goes from being a 4- legged 2, trying to go directly to Divine. They bypass the whole process of being a 2-legged, a human Being. It's amazing how a true Human Being is something to aspire to and most call our mistakes as being Human, "awe that's human nature". I think most of our trials are not humanness, but apart of our 4-leggedness. Human nature is being a True 2 Legged which is Divine. A Human Being is a Human who is Being. What Swamiji writes I can totally relate.. something in the english dictionary is ok if Being is at the end of Human:) > > Most of the time when I witness animals being, I am amazed at how REAL and BEAUTIFUL they are just BEING what they are. They are complete animals and not trying to be anything else, they do it perfectly. But humans will try and be something else all entirely before wanting to be Human or Humane. That's called a 4-legged 2. What makes us human is to be pondered. Animals have 'humans' to look up to in evolution, but do they know the Human is more evolved (supposedly)? As humans, we don't have another 'form' more evolved than us or do we? Do we just not see it like the animal doesn't see the human? Once the Human is enlightened, what can we compare ourselves to in evolution? Any idea's? Does the Animal know one day he might be a Human? > > Key: 2-leggeds are human beings > 4-leggeds are animal beings > > Just idea's.... Namaste. > Kelly > > nitya_ma <nitya_ma> wrote: > All of us have so many questions about living--how to live, right conduct, > relationship to guru, relationship to each other, relationship to self. > Lots of tough questions! > Maa often talks about "being a true human being"--over time, I have puzzled > over what she meant and tried to pay attention to this; I am still working on it. > But Swamiji has recently shared with us about the sanskrit word > "manush", used many times in the Chandi Path, particularly in the first chapter > Swamiji broke down the word in different ways to try to give us a flavor > for it--man, for example, means mind. > I do not have the rest of my notes with me this morning, but > the remainder of the word contained "witness, or observing" and'or > "control"--essentially, Swamiji was saying, a true human being is > that being that has control of or witnesses the mind. > > When we no longer identify ourselves with our thoughts--when we finally > understand who we really are--the witnesses--we begin to become a > real human being--our true capacity is that! What a freedom! > Chandi Path is showing us that path, in part. (as well as the > difficulties inherent in being, at all!) > > It brings to my mind stories from native american traditions, where > distinction is made between "4-leggeds" and "2-leggeds" and real > human beings. Walking on two legs doesn't make us human, > necessarily. What really does is a good question to ponder. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 I agree that domestication of an animal conditions the animal. Humans are that way too. We get conditioned by parents, society and by teachers, all teachers. Breaking the domestication of humans is definately a challenge. How do we domesticate an animal? Good Dog, Bad Dog, punishment and reward. We do the same to our children to teach them societies ways and to get them to conform so life is not so hard. If I look back on my trials of challenges, most are inflicted due to self preservation, like an animal. My shamanic teacher when discussing 4 legged 2's doesn't put it down, it's part of the process... it's just a funny way of describing it without attachment. We aren't saying 'my animal nature', it's "Oh my other 2 legs" Teehee. I don't believe in error like I don't believe in mistake like I don't believe in evil. I thrive in close and closer and yet, closer than before. Error induces punishment/reward. Close, closer and closer induces support which is human. I don't think you were ill thought out at all. No erring or ills at all:) No judgment here..Jai Maa! Thank you:) Love,Kelly nitya_ma <nitya_ma > wrote: Dear Kelly,My after thought at the end of my post about legggs was probably illthought out..nevertheless, I get the gist of what you are saying, I think, and I do agree.However, I think our trials are not so much about our animal natures necessarily, though we can sure get caught up that easily, or stuck there, butmore our conditioning to what we think it means to be "human" -- that is,as in "to err is__". We are easily conditioned, and then we can get caught in our box, and consider that to be normal, when actually it's just conditions.And that can reinforce the "ego", or the ignorance that comes frombeing attached. Understanding that helps us have compassion forourselves and for others, I believe.The freedom of being a true human being--what a concept! And it's allright there, like Dorothy's ruby (or silver) slippers!Our Swamiji, as usual, points us in a certain direction; what a juicy, joyfuljourney.LoveNitya Ma--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Nitya Ma,> > I have always noticed how the novice on the path goes from being a 4-legged 2, trying to go directly to Divine. They bypass the whole process of being a 2-legged, a human Being. It's amazing how a true Human Being is something to aspire to and most call our mistakes as being Human, "awe that's human nature". I think most of our trials are not humanness, but apart of our 4-leggedness. Human nature is being a True 2 Legged which is Divine. A Human Being is a Human who is Being. What Swamiji writes I can totally relate.. something in the english dictionary is ok if Being is at the end of Human:) > > Most of the time when I witness animals being, I am amazed at how REAL and BEAUTIFUL they are just BEING what they are. They are complete animals and not trying to be anything else, they do it perfectly. But humans will try and be something else all entirely before wanting to be Human or Humane. That's called a 4-legged 2. What makes us human is to be pondered. Animals have 'humans' to look up to in evolution, but do they know the Human is more evolved (supposedly)? As humans, we don't have another 'form' more evolved than us or do we? Do we just not see it like the animal doesn't see the human? Once the Human is enlightened, what can we compare ourselves to in evolution? Any idea's? Does the Animal know one day he might be a Human?> > Key: 2-leggeds are human beings> 4-leggeds are animal beings> > Just idea's.... Namaste.> Kelly> > nitya_ma <nitya_ma> wrote:> All of us have so many questions about living--how to live, right conduct,> relationship to guru, relationship to each other, relationship to self.> Lots of tough questions!> Maa often talks about "being a true human being"--over time, I have puzzled> over what she meant and tried to pay attention to this; I am still working on it.> But Swamiji has recently shared with us about the sanskrit word> "manush", used many times in the Chandi Path, particularly in the first chapter> Swamiji broke down the word in different ways to try to give us a flavor> for it--man, for example, means mind. > I do not have the rest of my notes with me this morning, but> the remainder of the word contained "witness, or observing" and'or> "control"--essentially, Swamiji was saying, a true human being is> that being that has control of or witnesses the mind.> > When we no longer identify ourselves with our thoughts--when we finally > understand who we really are--the witnesses--we begin to become a> real human being--our true capacity is that! What a freedom!> Chandi Path is showing us that path, in part. (as well as the> difficulties inherent in being, at all!)> > It brings to my mind stories from native american traditions, where> distinction is made between "4-leggeds" and "2-leggeds" and real> human beings. Walking on two legs doesn't make us human,> necessarily. What really does is a good question to ponder.> > > > Sponsor> To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuardTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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