Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's great! Certain ways will definately work for people. When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no? Can you explain some more on this? Thanks,Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Kelly,Keeping track of the repetitions is not difficult with the right tools. I have a couple of abacus. The large dark abacus is primary, each bead represents one mala, this one can record 10,800 reps or 110 malas. Each bead on the small light abacus represents 110 malas, so they can conceivably keep track of 972,000 reps.However, I have never counted more than 125,000 reps. After the first 125,000 -- I just repeat the mantra without counting.According to Henry Marshall, one uninterrupted mala (108 reps) per day for 40 continuous days, will lock in the vibrations of the mantra into the physical body (he does not mention the astral or causal bodies).Thomas Ashley-Farrand recommends doing 2 malas a day for 40 days as a minimum. The traditional number of reps is 125,000 (one lak?) to gain bare proficiency in that mantra.Mantras definitely work, and you don't have to have faith or understanding for them to work -- they just do. Mantras are such a gift! And probably the easiest form of sadhana in Kaliyug.Jai Maa!Astraea, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Astraea,> > Ah, the history makes a big difference. I see. I support you doing this sadhana and then you can teach us. I love to hear experience from people who have done certain sadhanas, so are you inspired to actually chant your mantra this many times? Are you really contemplating this? It's a sadhana in itself to just keep track on the repititions. > I have a hard time repeating my mantra all day long, much less count. If you do this you will be enlightened if you aren't already.> > Jai Maa!> Kelly> astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> Kelly,> I'm sure that's true in certain cases. > > In this specific instance,the disciple was Bhole Baba (later re-named > Swami Rama, founder of the Himalayan Institute). Bhole Baba had been > raised from childhood by the highest masters of the Sri Vidya path of > Tantra. He had been doing serious sadhana for many, many years before > he was instructed by his primary Guru to chant the Gayatri mantra for > 2.5 million times.(If you were chanting 100 malas a day [about ten > hours a day], you could get this done in about seven months.)> > So, yes, it was a test for Bhole Baba. But not in the usual sense, of > an ordinary seeker proving his sincerity. Of Bhole Baba's sincerity, > there was no question. > > AstraeaTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Kelly, Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had been completed. What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can. Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?" That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified. There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is harder to purify the mind than it is the body. So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu tradition? Astraea , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Astraea, > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no? > > Can you explain some more on this? > > Thanks, > Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Astrea, Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or totally fictional? I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally enjoyed the book. Surya - astraea2003 Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies Kelly,Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had been completed.What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified.There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is harder to purify the mind than it is the body.So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu tradition?Astraea, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Astraea,> > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?> > Can you explain some more on this?> > Thanks,> KellyTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 So I guess my question is then, "What is locked" what does that imply? I see your point and it's true, so true. Jai Ma! Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote: Kelly,Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had been completed.What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified.There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is harder to purify the mind than it is the body.So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu tradition?Astraea--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Astraea,> > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?> > Can you explain some more on this?> > Thanks,> KellyTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Mahamuni! That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept at the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra for 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier). According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters. I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama, despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the Menninger Clinic proved that. I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web last night that had me reeling in shock! I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein lies my weakness. Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama) does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra. And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity of Swami Rama's stories. Astraea , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Astrea, > > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or totally fictional? > > I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally enjoyed the book. > > Surya > - > astraea2003 > > Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM > Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies > > > Kelly, > Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need > physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably > kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything > he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had > been completed. > > What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was > already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that > leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can. > > Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the > others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?" > > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can > purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's > thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified. > > There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to > restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any > interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be > impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is > harder to purify the mind than it is the body. > > So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but > more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. > Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu > tradition? > > Astraea > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote: > > Astraea, > > > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and > devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is > distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the > mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like > it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The > physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so > once the physical has it the others must have it...no? > > > > Can you explain some more on this? > > > > Thanks, > > Kelly > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book, Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to Westerners. Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter. Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not. Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants. But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me. Well I've rambled on again.....sorry. Jai Maa, Surya - astraea2003 Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30 PM Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies Hi Mahamuni!That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept at the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra for 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier). According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters.I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama, despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the Menninger Clinic proved that. I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web last night that had me reeling in shock!I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein lies my weakness.Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama) does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity of Swami Rama's stories.Astraea, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:> Astrea,> > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or totally fictional?> > I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally enjoyed the book.> > Surya> - > astraea2003 > > Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM> Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies> > > Kelly,> Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need > physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably > kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything > he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had > been completed.> > What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was > already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that > leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.> > Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the > others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"> > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can > purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's > thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified.> > There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to > restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any > interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be > impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is > harder to purify the mind than it is the body.> > So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but > more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. > Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu > tradition?> > Astraea> > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Astraea,> > > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and > devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is > distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the > mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like > it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The > physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so > once the physical has it the others must have it...no?> > > > Can you explain some more on this?> > > > Thanks,> > Kelly> > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Surya, It's a shame so many people are mislead. Thanks for bringing this up. Your "Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery." surprised me. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought have this kind of physical control was a sign of a Hatha Yoga master? (Not necessarily a Satguru -- that's a whole nother thing entirely.) Your "This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants." is very apropos! But there are a variety of reasons to be hesitant to commit. I want to be sure the Guru I choose is the right one for me. I commented to someone else that I thought it was interesting that I was not attracted to Swami Rama (as handsome as he was in his youth). Not that this is a real indication of my discrimination. After all, I loved looking at photos of Swami Muktananda -- he was the one I was attracted to, not Gurumayi (as comely as she is). I'm hoping I've found what I'm looking for at the Devi Mandir. Astraea , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book, Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to Westerners. > > Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter. > > Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not. Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants. > > But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me. > > Well I've rambled on again.....sorry. > > Jai Maa, > > Surya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Surya, I do not believe everything I read--neither do I doubt. Trusting information that is second, or even third-hand, is chancey at best. If I possess anything of value, it probably belongs to Swami Rama. Chris , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book, Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to Westerners. > > Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter. > > Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not. Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants. > > But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me. > > Well I've rambled on again.....sorry. > > Jai Maa, > > Surya > - > astraea2003 > > Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30 PM > Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies > > > Hi Mahamuni! > That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept at > the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra for > 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier). > According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the > mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters. > > I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan > Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama, > despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the > Menninger Clinic proved that. > > I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web > last night that had me reeling in shock! > > I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my > experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an > excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is > riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein > lies my weakness. > > Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama) > does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of > his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra. > > And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity > of Swami Rama's stories. > > Astraea > > , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > > Astrea, > > > > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but > asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a > very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his > main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or > totally fictional? > > > > I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally > enjoyed the book. > > > > Surya > > - > > astraea2003 > > > > Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM > > Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies > > > > > > Kelly, > > Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru > commanded > > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not > need > > physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably > > kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of > everything > > he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps > had > > been completed. > > > > What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was > > already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does > that > > leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can. > > > > Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > > body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the > > others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are > more > > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?" > > > > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can > > purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's > > thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are > purified. > > > > There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to > > restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have > any > > interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be > > impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think > it is > > harder to purify the mind than it is the body. > > > > So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be > locked > > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), > but > > more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle > bodies. > > Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu > > tradition? > > > > Astraea > > > > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote: > > > Astraea, > > > > > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to > keep > > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try > and > > devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or > do > > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is > > distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the > > mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds > like > > it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. > That's > > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > > > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > body, > > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. > The > > physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, > so > > once the physical has it the others must have it...no? > > > > > > Can you explain some more on this? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Kelly > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 that is a nice post. I am guessing he is/was your Guru? This is the proper attitude of a disciple. - Chris Kirner Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:44 PM Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies Surya,I do not believe everything I read--neither do I doubt.Trusting information that is second, or even third-hand, is chancey at best.If I possess anything of value, it probably belongs to Swami Rama.Chris, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:> There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book, Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to Westerners.> > Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter.> > Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not. Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants.> > But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me.> > Well I've rambled on again.....sorry.> > Jai Maa,> > Surya> ----- Original Message ----- > astraea2003 > To: > Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30 PM> Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies> > > Hi Mahamuni!> That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept at > the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra for > 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier). > According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the > mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters.> > I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan > Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama, > despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the > Menninger Clinic proved that. > > I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web > last night that had me reeling in shock!> > I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my > experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an > excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is > riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein > lies my weakness.> > Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama) > does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of > his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.> > And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity > of Swami Rama's stories.> > Astraea> > --- In , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:> > Astrea,> > > > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but > asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a > very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his > main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or > totally fictional?> > > > I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally > enjoyed the book.> > > > Surya> > - > > astraea2003 > > > > Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM> > Subject: Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies> > > > > > Kelly,> > Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru > commanded > > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not > need > > physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably > > kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of > everything > > he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps > had > > been completed.> > > > What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was > > already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does > that > > leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.> > > > Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > > body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the > > others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are > more > > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"> > > > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can > > purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's > > thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are > purified.> > > > There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to > > restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have > any > > interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be > > impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think > it is > > harder to purify the mind than it is the body.> > > > So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be > locked > > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), > but > > more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle > bodies. > > Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu > > tradition?> > > > Astraea> > > > > > , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote:> > > Astraea,> > > > > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to > keep > > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try > and > > devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or > do > > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is > > distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the > > mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds > like > > it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. > That's > > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > > > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > body, > > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. > The > > physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, > so > > once the physical has it the others must have it...no?> > > > > > Can you explain some more on this?> > > > > > Thanks,> > > Kelly> > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the Terms of > Service.> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of is subject to the To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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