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Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

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I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep

track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and

devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do

my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is

distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the

mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like

it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's

great! Certain ways will definately work for people.

When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body,

before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The

physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so

once the physical has it the others must have it...no?

Can you explain some more on this?

Thanks,Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Kelly,Keeping track of the repetitions is not difficult with the right

tools. I have a couple of abacus. The large dark abacus is primary,

each bead represents one mala, this one can record 10,800 reps or 110

malas. Each bead on the small light abacus represents 110 malas, so

they can conceivably keep track of 972,000 reps.However, I have never

counted more than 125,000 reps. After the first 125,000 -- I just

repeat the mantra without counting.According to Henry Marshall, one

uninterrupted mala (108 reps) per day for 40 continuous days, will

lock in the vibrations of the mantra into the physical body (he does

not mention the astral or causal bodies).Thomas Ashley-Farrand

recommends doing 2 malas a day for 40 days as a minimum. The

traditional number of reps is 125,000 (one lak?) to gain bare

proficiency in that

mantra.Mantras definitely work, and you don't have to have faith or

understanding for them to work -- they just do. Mantras are such a

gift! And probably the easiest form of sadhana in Kaliyug.Jai

Maa!Astraea, Kelly Leeper

<blissnout> wrote:> Astraea,> > Ah, the history makes a big

difference. I see. I support you doing this sadhana and then you

can teach us. I love to hear experience from people who have done

certain sadhanas, so are you inspired to actually chant your mantra

this many times? Are you really contemplating this? It's a sadhana

in itself to just keep track on the repititions. > I have a hard

time repeating my mantra all day long, much less count. If you do

this you will be enlightened if you aren't already.> > Jai Maa!>

Kelly> astraea2003

<astraea2003> wrote:> Kelly,> I'm sure that's true in certain

cases. > > In this specific instance,the disciple was Bhole Baba

(later re-named > Swami Rama, founder of the Himalayan Institute).

Bhole Baba had been > raised from childhood by the highest masters of

the Sri Vidya path of > Tantra. He had been doing serious sadhana for

many, many years before > he was instructed by his primary Guru to

chant the Gayatri mantra for > 2.5 million times.(If you were

chanting 100 malas a day [about ten > hours a day], you could get

this done in about seven months.)> > So, yes, it was a test for Bhole

Baba. But not in the usual sense, of > an ordinary seeker proving his

sincerity. Of Bhole Baba's sincerity, > there was no question. > >

AstraeaTo from this group, send an email

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Kelly,

Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru commanded

him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need

physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably

kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything

he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had

been completed.

 

What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was

already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does that

leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.

 

Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical

body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the

others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more

subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"

 

That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can

purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's

thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are purified.

 

There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to

restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have any

interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be

impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is

harder to purify the mind than it is the body.

 

So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked

in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but

more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies.

Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu

tradition?

 

Astraea

 

 

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

wrote:

> Astraea,

>

> I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep

track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and

devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do

my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is

distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the

mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like

it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's

great! Certain ways will definately work for people.

> When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body,

before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The

physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so

once the physical has it the others must have it...no?

>

> Can you explain some more on this?

>

> Thanks,

> Kelly

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Astrea,

Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but

asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a

very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his

main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or

totally fictional?

I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally enjoyed the book.

Surya

-

astraea2003

Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM

Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

Kelly,Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru

commanded him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did

not need physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being

probably kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of

everything he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5

million reps had been completed.What I found discouraging about this

story is that Bhole Baba was already so high when he was told to do

this practice. Where does that leave the rest of us? I guess we can

only do the best we can.Your, "When he says it will lock the

vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the

physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense

and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the

others must have it...no?"That sounds reasonable, however, what

puzzles me is that one can purify the physical body but that does not

guarantee that one's thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that

follow are purified.There are people who undergo rigorous physical

purification to restore their health or beauty, but that does not

mean they have any interest in the spiritual. Their minds and

emotions may still be impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect

each other.)I think it is harder to purify the mind than it is the

body.So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be

locked in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a

day), but more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle

bodies. Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu

tradition?Astraea, Kelly Leeper

<blissnout> wrote:> Astraea,> > I've never heard of these

tools. No wonder I don't like to keep track. I get like a fussy

baby, I put the articles down and try and devote all my attention to

Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or do my fingers at my chest, but

doing anything with my hands is distracting when I am trying to unite

with the vibration of the mantra. For me it's a distraction to move

my hands. It sounds like it works for you if you have used it and

know alot about it. That's great! Certain ways will definately

work for people. > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the

physical body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock

the others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are

more subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have

it...no?> > Can you explain some more on this?> > Thanks,> KellyTo

from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

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So I guess my question is then, "What is locked" what does that imply?

I see your point and it's true, so true.

Jai Ma!

Kellyastraea2003 <astraea2003 > wrote:

Kelly,Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru

commanded him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did

not need physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being

probably kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of

everything he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5

million reps had been completed.What I found discouraging about this

story is that Bhole Baba was already so high when he was told to do

this practice. Where does that leave the rest of us? I guess we can

only do the best we can.Your, "When he says it will lock the

vibrations into the physical body, before it can lock into the

physical, it has to lock the others. The physical is the most dense

and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the physical has it the

others must have

it...no?"That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one

can purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's

thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are

purified.There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification

to restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have

any interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be

impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is

harder to purify the mind than it is the body.So I don't know the

answer to that question. The mantra may be locked in the physical

body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but more repetitions

may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. Maybe that's why

125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu tradition?Astraea--- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:>

Astraea,> > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like

to keep track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and

try and devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it

or do my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is

distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the

mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like

it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. That's

great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > When he

says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, before it

can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The physical

is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle, so once the

physical has it the others must have it...no?> > Can you explain

some more on this?> >

Thanks,> KellyTo from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

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Hi Mahamuni!

That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept at

the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra for

2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier).

According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the

mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters.

 

I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan

Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama,

despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the

Menninger Clinic proved that.

 

I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web

last night that had me reeling in shock!

 

I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my

experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an

excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is

riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein

lies my weakness.

 

Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama)

does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of

his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.

 

And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity

of Swami Rama's stories.

 

Astraea

 

, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:

> Astrea,

>

> Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive but

asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a

very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from his

main book, how do you know that those stories were not embellished or

totally fictional?

>

> I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally

enjoyed the book.

>

> Surya

> -

> astraea2003

>

> Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM

> Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

>

>

> Kelly,

> Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru

commanded

> him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not

need

> physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably

> kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of

everything

> he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps

had

> been completed.

>

> What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba was

> already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where does

that

> leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.

>

> Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical

> body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the

> others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are

more

> subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have it...no?"

>

> That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one can

> purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that one's

> thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are

purified.

>

> There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification to

> restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they have

any

> interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be

> impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think

it is

> harder to purify the mind than it is the body.

>

> So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be

locked

> in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day),

but

> more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle

bodies.

> Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu

> tradition?

>

> Astraea

>

>

> , Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

> wrote:

> > Astraea,

> >

> > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to

keep

> track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try

and

> devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or

do

> my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is

> distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the

> mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds

like

> it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it.

That's

> great! Certain ways will definately work for people.

> > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical

body,

> before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others.

The

> physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle,

so

> once the physical has it the others must have it...no?

> >

> > Can you explain some more on this?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Kelly

>

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

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There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read

too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One

was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated

disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful

about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book,

Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be

something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in

many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to

Westerners.

Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After being

around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from story

and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble

opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and

Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make

for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter.

Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not a

sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based

upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not.

Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to

know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something

we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the

best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians

look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a

Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual

cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants.

But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It

would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so

many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though

they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but

why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me.

Well I've rambled on again.....sorry.

Jai Maa,

Surya

-

astraea2003

Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30 PM

Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

Hi Mahamuni!That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high

adept at the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri

mantra for 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted

earlier). According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana

in the mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters.I have not

read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The Himalayan Masters"

yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama, despite

everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the Menninger

Clinic proved that. I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami

Rama) on the Web last night that had me reeling in shock!I have a

strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my experiences with

Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an excellent writer. The

story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is riveting. I WANT to believe

in God-like Himalayan adepts, and therein lies my

weakness.Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami

Rama) does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more

of his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.And

to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity of

Swami Rama's stories.Astraea,

"mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:> Astrea,> > Here is a simple

question that is not meaning to be offensive but asked purely out of

curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a very high adept at that

time or even at any time? If it is from his main book, how do you

know that those stories were not embellished or totally fictional?> >

I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally enjoyed

the book.> > Surya> - >

astraea2003 > > Saturday,

November 15, 2003 2:56 AM> Re: Mantra's

Locked In The Bodies> > > Kelly,> Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a

VERY high adept when his Guru commanded > him to do 2.5 million

reps of the Gayatri. He probably did not need > physical tools to

track his repetitions, his Inner Being probably > kept track of it

for him. And then his Guru was aware of everything > he wanted to

be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps had > been

completed.> > What I found discouraging about this story is that

Bhole Baba was > already so high when he was told to do this

practice. Where does that > leave the rest of us? I guess we can

only do the best we can.> > Your, "When he says it will lock the

vibrations into the physical > body, before it can lock into the

physical, it has to lock the > others. The physical is the most

dense and the other bodies are more > subtle, so once the physical

has it the others must have it...no?"> > That sounds reasonable,

however, what puzzles me is that one can > purify the physical body

but that does not guarantee that one's > thoughts (causal) and the

emotions (astral) that follow are purified.> > There are people who

undergo rigorous physical purification to > restore their health or

beauty, but that does not mean they have any > interest in the

spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be > impure.

(Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think it is >

harder to purify the mind than it is the body.> > So I don't know

the answer to that question. The mantra may be locked > in the

physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a day), but > more

repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle bodies. >

Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu >

tradition?> > Astraea> > > ,

Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > wrote:> > Astraea,> > > >

I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to keep >

track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and try and

> devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it or

do > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is >

distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of the >

mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds like

> it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it.

That's > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. >

> When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical body, >

before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the others. The

> physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more subtle,

so > once the physical has it the others must have it...no?> > >

> Can you explain some more on this?> > > > Thanks,> > Kelly>

> > > > Sponsor > >

> > > > To from this group,

send an email to:> > > > >

To

from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

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Surya,

It's a shame so many people are mislead. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

Your "Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is

not a sign of Yogic mastery." surprised me. Maybe I'm being naive,

but I thought have this kind of physical control was a sign of a

Hatha Yoga master? (Not necessarily a Satguru -- that's a whole

nother thing entirely.)

 

Your "This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a Guru.

We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual cuisine at

all the different Guru restaurants." is very apropos!

But there are a variety of reasons to be hesitant to commit. I want

to be sure the Guru I choose is the right one for me.

 

I commented to someone else that I thought it was interesting that I

was not attracted to Swami Rama (as handsome as he was in his youth).

Not that this is a real indication of my discrimination. After all, I

loved looking at photos of Swami Muktananda -- he was the one I was

attracted to, not Gurumayi (as comely as she is).

 

I'm hoping I've found what I'm looking for at the Devi Mandir.

 

Astraea

 

, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:

> There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read

too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One

was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated

disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful

about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book,

Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be

something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in

many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to

Westerners.

>

> Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After

being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from

story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble

opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and

Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make

for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter.

>

> Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not

a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based

upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not.

Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to

know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something

we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the

best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians

look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a

Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual

cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants.

>

> But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It

would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so

many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though

they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but

why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me.

>

> Well I've rambled on again.....sorry.

>

> Jai Maa,

>

> Surya

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Surya,

 

I do not believe everything I read--neither do I doubt.

 

Trusting information that is second, or even third-hand, is chancey

at best.

 

If I possess anything of value, it probably belongs to Swami Rama.

 

Chris

 

 

 

, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:

> There is good reason to doubt. I used to believe everything I read

too. Now I know better. I know people who knew Nantin Baba. One

was with him as one of the few if not the only formally initiated

disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not being truthful

about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved the book,

Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was written to be

something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also embellished in

many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically" appealing to

Westerners.

>

> Many things are said in books these days to sell books. After

being around the real thing for a while, it is easy to see truth from

story and/or big time embellishment. It is a real shame in my humble

opinion. The truth is that much of the daily life between Guru and

Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular, so it doesn't make

for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is another matter.

>

> Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily processes is not

a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make judgments based

upon these stories if we don't really know if they are true or not.

Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest" Masters? Tough to

know from here. Also this concept of "highest" Masters is something

we get so caught up on in the West. We are only interested in the

best and the highest, which is very different from how the Indians

look at it. This is why we often have big problems surrendering to a

Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types of spiritual

cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants.

>

> But maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It

would be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so

many other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though

they are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but

why misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me.

>

> Well I've rambled on again.....sorry.

>

> Jai Maa,

>

> Surya

> -

> astraea2003

>

> Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30 PM

> Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

>

>

> Hi Mahamuni!

> That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very high adept

at

> the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri Gayatri mantra

for

> 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had posted earlier).

> According to the story, he had been doing serious sadhana in the

> mountain caves with the highest Himalayan masters.

>

> I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With The

Himalayan

> Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand). Swami Rama,

> despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his tests at the

> Menninger Clinic proved that.

>

> I discovered some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web

> last night that had me reeling in shock!

>

> I have a strong tendency to believe what I'm told (despite my

> experiences with Siddha Yoga). Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an

> excellent writer. The story told in "At The Eleventh Hour" is

> riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like Himalayan adepts, and

therein

> lies my weakness.

>

> Incidently, Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami

Rama)

> does NOT pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more

of

> his books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.

>

> And to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the

authenticity

> of Swami Rama's stories.

>

> Astraea

>

> , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...>

wrote:

> > Astrea,

> >

> > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to be offensive

but

> asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know Swami Rama was a

> very high adept at that time or even at any time? If it is from

his

> main book, how do you know that those stories were not

embellished or

> totally fictional?

> >

> > I'm not saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally

> enjoyed the book.

> >

> > Surya

> > -

> > astraea2003

> >

> > Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM

> > Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

> >

> >

> > Kelly,

> > Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his Guru

> commanded

> > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri. He probably did

not

> need

> > physical tools to track his repetitions, his Inner Being

probably

> > kept track of it for him. And then his Guru was aware of

> everything

> > he wanted to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million

reps

> had

> > been completed.

> >

> > What I found discouraging about this story is that Bhole Baba

was

> > already so high when he was told to do this practice. Where

does

> that

> > leave the rest of us? I guess we can only do the best we can.

> >

> > Your, "When he says it will lock the vibrations into the

physical

> > body, before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock

the

> > others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies

are

> more

> > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have

it...no?"

> >

> > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles me is that one

can

> > purify the physical body but that does not guarantee that

one's

> > thoughts (causal) and the emotions (astral) that follow are

> purified.

> >

> > There are people who undergo rigorous physical purification

to

> > restore their health or beauty, but that does not mean they

have

> any

> > interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still

be

> > impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I

think

> it is

> > harder to purify the mind than it is the body.

> >

> > So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may

be

> locked

> > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two malas a

day),

> but

> > more repetitions may be needed to "lock" it into the subtle

> bodies.

> > Maybe that's why 125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu

> > tradition?

> >

> > Astraea

> >

> >

> > , Kelly Leeper

<blissnout>

> > wrote:

> > > Astraea,

> > >

> > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like to

> keep

> > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the articles down and

try

> and

> > devote all my attention to Ma. I know I'm supposed to use it

or

> do

> > my fingers at my chest, but doing anything with my hands is

> > distracting when I am trying to unite with the vibration of

the

> > mantra. For me it's a distraction to move my hands. It

sounds

> like

> > it works for you if you have used it and know alot about it.

> That's

> > great! Certain ways will definately work for people.

> > > When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical

> body,

> > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the

others.

> The

> > physical is the most dense and the other bodies are more

subtle,

> so

> > once the physical has it the others must have it...no?

> > >

> > > Can you explain some more on this?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Kelly

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

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that is a nice post. I am guessing he is/was your Guru? This is the

proper attitude of a disciple.

-

Chris Kirner

Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:44 PM

Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies

Surya,I do not believe everything I read--neither do I doubt.Trusting

information that is second, or even third-hand, is chancey at best.If

I possess anything of value, it probably belongs to Swami

Rama.Chris, "mahamuni"

<mahamuni@c...> wrote:> There is good reason to doubt. I used to

believe everything I read too. Now I know better. I know people who

knew Nantin Baba. One was with him as one of the few if not the only

formally initiated disciple for 7 years and he says Swami Rama is not

being truthful about his experiences with Nantin Baba. Though I loved

the book, Living With The Himalayan Masters, I now think it was

written to be something like Autobiography of a Yogi, which was also

embellished in many parts and edited in a way to be "mystically"

appealing to Westerners.> > Many things are said in books these days

to sell books. After being around the real thing for a while, it is

easy to see truth from story and/or big time embellishment. It is a

real shame in my humble opinion. The truth is that much of the daily

life between Guru and Disciple is not flashy or outwardly spectacular,

so it doesn't make for great storytelling. IWhat happens inwardly is

another matter.> > Having proficiency in control of autonomic bodily

processes is not a sign of Yogic mastery. Problem is, we can't make

judgments based upon these stories if we don't really know if they

are true or not. Was he doing "serious" sadhana with the "highest"

Masters? Tough to know from here. Also this concept of "highest"

Masters is something we get so caught up on in the West. We are only

interested in the best and the highest, which is very different from

how the Indians look at it. This is why we often have big problems

surrendering to a Guru. We are busy sampling all the different types

of spiritual cuisine at all the different Guru restaurants.> > But

maybe some or much is true. Who knows? Who can say now. It would

be nice to think so. Unfortunately I have come to know that so many

other books written in recent times are mostly fictional though they

are portrayed as factual. Nothing wrong with good fiction but why

misrepresent it as something else? Bad Karma if you ask me.> > Well

I've rambled on again.....sorry.> > Jai Maa,> > Surya> -----

Original Message ----- > astraea2003 > To:

> Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:30

PM> Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies> > >

Hi Mahamuni!> That's a d*** good question! I ASSUMED he was a very

high adept at > the time he was commanded to repeat the Savitri

Gayatri mantra for > 2.4 million times (not 2.5 million as I had

posted earlier). > According to the story, he had been doing

serious sadhana in the > mountain caves with the highest Himalayan

masters.> > I have not read Swami Rama's autobiography "Living With

The Himalayan > Masters" yet (which is controversial I understand).

Swami Rama, > despite everything, was a genuine Yogic adept -- his

tests at the > Menninger Clinic proved that. > > I discovered

some things about Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) on the Web > last night

that had me reeling in shock!> > I have a strong tendency to

believe what I'm told (despite my > experiences with Siddha Yoga).

Pandit Rajmani Tigunait is an > excellent writer. The story told in

"At The Eleventh Hour" is > riveting. I WANT to believe in God-like

Himalayan adepts, and therein > lies my weakness.> > Incidently,

Pandit Tigunait (the author & successor to Swami Rama) > does NOT

pretend to be a Satguru. I look forward to reading more of > his

books just for the technical information on Yoga & Tantra.> > And

to answer your question, Mahamuni, I now doubt the authenticity >

of Swami Rama's stories.> > Astraea> > --- In

, "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote:> >

Astrea,> > > > Here is a simple question that is not meaning to

be offensive but > asked purely out of curiousity: How do you know

Swami Rama was a > very high adept at that time or even at any time?

If it is from his > main book, how do you know that those stories

were not embellished or > totally fictional?> > > > I'm not

saying he was or was not, just asking. I personally > enjoyed the

book.> > > > Surya> > - > >

astraea2003 > > > >

Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:56 AM> > Subject:

Re: Mantra's Locked In The Bodies> > > > > >

Kelly,> > Bhole Baba (Swami Rama) was a VERY high adept when his

Guru > commanded > > him to do 2.5 million reps of the Gayatri.

He probably did not > need > > physical tools to track his

repetitions, his Inner Being probably > > kept track of it for

him. And then his Guru was aware of > everything > > he wanted

to be aware of and would know when the 2.5 million reps > had > >

been completed.> > > > What I found discouraging about this

story is that Bhole Baba was > > already so high when he was told

to do this practice. Where does > that > > leave the rest of us?

I guess we can only do the best we can.> > > > Your, "When he

says it will lock the vibrations into the physical > > body,

before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock the > >

others. The physical is the most dense and the other bodies are >

more > > subtle, so once the physical has it the others must have

it...no?"> > > > That sounds reasonable, however, what puzzles

me is that one can > > purify the physical body but that does not

guarantee that one's > > thoughts (causal) and the emotions

(astral) that follow are > purified.> > > > There are people

who undergo rigorous physical purification to > > restore their

health or beauty, but that does not mean they have > any > >

interest in the spiritual. Their minds and emotions may still be >

> impure. (Certainly, both Body & Mind affect each other.)I think >

it is > > harder to purify the mind than it is the body.> > >

> So I don't know the answer to that question. The mantra may be >

locked > > in the physical body after 40 days (of one or two

malas a day), > but > > more repetitions may be needed to

"lock" it into the subtle > bodies. > > Maybe that's why

125,000 reps is the usual standard in Hindu > > tradition?> > >

> Astraea> > > > > > ,

Kelly Leeper <blissnout> > > wrote:> > > Astraea,> >

> > > > I've never heard of these tools. No wonder I don't like

to > keep > > track. I get like a fussy baby, I put the

articles down and try > and > > devote all my attention to Ma.

I know I'm supposed to use it or > do > > my fingers at my

chest, but doing anything with my hands is > > distracting when I

am trying to unite with the vibration of the > > mantra. For me

it's a distraction to move my hands. It sounds > like > > it

works for you if you have used it and know alot about it. > That's

> > great! Certain ways will definately work for people. > >

> When he says it will lock the vibrations into the physical >

body, > > before it can lock into the physical, it has to lock

the others. > The > > physical is the most dense and the other

bodies are more subtle, > so > > once the physical has it the

others must have it...no?> > > > > > Can you explain some

more on this?> > > > > > Thanks,> > > Kelly> > > > >

> > > > > Sponsor > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > Your

use of is subject to the Terms of > Service.> >

> > Sponsor > >

> > > > To from this group, send

an email to:> > > > > Your

use of is subject to the To

from this group, send an email

to:Your use of

is subject to the

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