LN - The Chosen

November 18, 2003

Yes, twice bitten twice aware more so than shy:) Getting bitten

makes one much more aware that Guru's are people too and they are

also on the path and a student. I really believe one can have high

spiritual experience and still be immiture in other area's of life,

like arrested development and this is what I have encountered. It's

my lesson is accepting Guru's with their faults as well and this has

not been easy because it's uncomfortable to see the Guru's faults

because of how we are taught devotion. Sometimes loving a Guru means

being their mirror as well and that isn't too cozy for them or the

disciple either. I've heard many of my closest friends, 'He doesn't

know what to do with you Kelly, you are challenging to him.

I just saw that book at Borders yesturday... funny you write about it.

Sounds like there is wisdom in there. I have a question. Is loving

the Guru meaning that you do everything they say? Is that really

LOVE? Is love obediance or is obediance obediance? I can obey

someone whom I love or don't love, I don't see it as a determining

factor for loving the Guru.

I think my case is wanting to see God so much that at different stages of my life I made

it my sadhana to see God everywhere. When one is that desperate they

will make God everywhere. It's spiritual survival when one doesn't

have a physical Guru. How can one go wrong when the try their

hardest to see the Divine in everything, even the mistakes and the

disagreements and the things that don't feel very good. Even God has

come thru the Guru mistakes or misunderstandings, but the lessons to

me appear much different than the human Guru usually intends. In

rebirthing we say, "Get out of the way" When I rebirth a client, I

never rebirth them, God does. When the Guru understands that God is

coming thru them without their interference, then all goes well....

it's just that interference part that can make it sticky. I would

love a good example in my life, a perfect person, but I have found

perfectly imperfect Guru's and I think this is how it might be in

reality.

In my case the Guru appeared in person and then everywhere and then in

person again, but right now everywhere feels more right to me and

safer for my God bubble. I'd love a Guru who doesn't say much or

have too many expectations, but one that could just BE and be an

example without attachment to dogma. A silent Guru Being would be

beautiful. The more quiet my Guru now, the more profound he is. But

I'm not one to tell him to hush and I haven't learned the kriya of

closing off the ears yet.

I had to let go of being the perfect disciple and just focus on

learning. That idea can thwart me. It's like being the perfect wife

or mother or daughter, it will always have it's pitfalls and it's not

reality. Guru is everywhere and if one can see or tries to see Guru

everywhere they are a true disciple. Many are called but the chosen

are few. We chose ourselves. How often we think someone else is

doing the chosing. We chose. In our sadhana we walk a path for

loving and enlightenment, we become a chosen one because we chose to

walk the path. If Christ was the chosen one and he said, "These

things and many others you will do." (or something like that) We can

chose ourselves. It shows the disciple as the decider. I guess it

goes into spiritual worth:) If you sit in meditation and feel the

idea that you are the chosen one, how do you feel? honestly? Feels

weird because we are taught

only Christ, Buddha, Ramakrishna and others were chosen. They were

chosen because they chose themselves. They did the sadhana. The

sadhana. Sometimes I think the only thing that makes a difference

from them to us is sadhana, sadhana, sadhana. Every breath of

theirs was sadhana. They didn't waste action, as all action was

filled with God because they chose that. They were desperate for God

right now, and right now was where they would have to see God and be

God. How many times do we think of enlightenment happening 'one day'

in the future? Well, the future is the now as well as the now in the

future so enlightenment is in this breath, now and not later. I'm

always amazed at the mind and how it projects into the future. Latha

Nanda, You chose yourself. You may not need 6 months. She is dawning

on you as you do sadhana. Don't worry about the ego, just do the

sadhana. Gee, what does that

thought feel like? I'm excited for all the disciples that know the Chandi and recite it daily.

Anyway, these are ponderings, optimistic subjective truths right now.

Latha Nanda <lathananda > wrote:

Dear Kelly,I read your responses with interest. I totally agree on

your lines'The important thing is to do sadhana and love God. When

one is doing their sadhana, Guru comes thru everything, this is what

I have seen.'It looks like (my assumption) that it maybe a case of

'once bitten twice shy' syndrome. Therefore you find it hard to

trust another person as a 'Guru' , but since you are open and

seeking, you dont have problems accepting wisdom from everything and

everyone. I bow to your openness and willingness to learn from

all.May I recommend a book -"Do you need a Guru" by Mariana Caplan.

She brings up the concept of conscious disciplehood. How you can keep

control in your hands by deciding what you can or cannot undergo. I

found this book useful. Unless we can trust completely and throw

caution

to winds and scream unabashedly to all the world "I love my Guru SOOO

MUCH" , it is wise to take cautious steps.Another thing that I go by

is what I have heard Swamiji say "You can find a lot of true gurus

but it is difficult to find one true disciple " . So I am trying to

follow those words and awaken the disciple within me . This is where

obedience (get up at this time and do this puja - how much simpler

can it get) and sadhana comes in. I am praying with whatever

sincerity that I am capable of and pray to be the true disciple. I

know then the Guru will appear. Swamiji and all the great saints

before him cannot be wrong.With love,Latha--- In

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:>

Latha Nanda:) Namaste. See below:> > Latha Nanda <lathananda>

wrote:> Namaste Kelly,> > Here

are my two cents ...> > Unless you ask how will you know ? If you ask,

you have two possibilities - either you get an answer or you dont. If

you dont ask, you have only one possibility - no answer. > > Therefore

we should keep asking... It is not what we ask , but the way that it

is asked and the spirit in which it is asked that matters. > >

********* agree totally *********> > How do we ask the question -

that is where the problem arises. The cultural difference is there ;

I know it personally because I have seen the interaction between

western students and eastern teachers, and western students and

western teachers.> > If we look at any teacher - any culture is -

first and foremost , to show respect. The question is framed as a

request, because we are the beginners and we have come to gain the

knowledge. The personal relationship needs to be built, for

some this happens right away.> > ********* for me, having several

Guru's in my life, I've had various experiencese with each one,

definately a history. Respect was always there as I am a pretty

sweet person and quiet in person, always respectful. But some of

them took advantage of that and Maa has given me lessons in asserting

myself and recognizing my own intuition and for the most part, when I

follow it, it has proven to be more sound than the Guru's advice. I

can't ignore what Maa has given me with my own intuition, that would

be disrespecting Her gift. But yes, respect goes both ways, I agree.

When it comes to learning puja or sanskrit, of course I would need a

guru for learning that, but that is not my emphasis. I like

reciting, but doing things with my hands is destracting.> > If you

asked your teacher and the teacher didnt respond :- chances are> 1)

communication

gap - can be worked on with analysis.> 2) the teacher felt he could

not help you - you move on.> 3) you need to be patient and ask at

another opportunity.> > ******* I think number 3 was it. He is now

my closest friend and companion besides God, but his method of

teaching is not my method. I'm very interactive and he is more

traditional being from India. His Guru told him not to question so

he never did, so he expected that of me. So we became the closest of

friends instead:) Now the 'roles' don't matter. He is not teaching

me homa, but that is OK. I learn very differently than he teaches,

so when he has patience for questions, I might not ask so many:)> >

Dear Kelly, I have read enough of your posts to know that you look

for a 50-50 partnership in the Guru-disciple relationship. However

when it is a question of you learning from your Guru, you surrender

100%

and the Guru gives back 100%. So it is a 100%-100% relationship, >

atleast my understanding.> > ********* Babaji is definately a 100%

relationship. I have found the Ego of physical Gurus to get in the

way of sincerity. Their pompousness or attachments come out around

me for some reason and a strong need to control. It's sad, but I

have to let them be when they get that way. I am not responsible for

a Guru's reactions, he is and the disciple is not always to blame.

There is always a history to the stories, so God has been my friend

in first aid of Guru damage more than a few times. I would love to

have a physical Guru, but I don't think it's going to happen. Maa

has already shown Herself through so much and I learn much more

acutely that way. So, like a court jester, I like to respectfully

ask questions to probe the mind of Swami's and Guru's. I want to

hear answers

to see if they are valid or superstitious, then I might post some

more. I definately lean toward the siddha path which is shaivism of

south India since rebirthers are shaivites for the most part, but>

finding a Guru in that tradition is very, very hard. They do not

wear orange and they do not make themselves known to the masses, so

to travel there ISO a Siddha Guru who is really an immortal (can

physically transmute) might be difficult, but I would be so blessed

to find one. I have one, Babaji but he is not in a body right now.

Some say he is, and he could be in two or three right now. The

important thing is to do sadhana and love God. When one is doing

their sadhana, Guru comes thru everything, this is what I have seen.>

Thanks for calling out these important questions. Your welcome:)

Thanks for posing some questions back:) Namaste:)> Latha> >

> , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> >

wrote:> > All,> > > > Is questioning bad or less than? The very act

of asking is one > that invites recieving. I remember learning a homa

ritual from a > teacher who didn't want me to ask questions. I was

learning too fast > for him or asking questions he didn't know.

Pretty soon, that ended > and that was ok for me. I think it's good

for Americans to honor > their learning process so that we can

continue to learn in whatever > way it looks like. To judge a

questioning person is to make > assumptions about them and that is

why this person was no longer my > teacher. Questions... our very

search is one big question, a Quest. > The ways of culture is just

that - ways. I think it's ok for the > east to not question if that

is

how they were raised and I think it's > ok for the west to question

because that is how we were raised. Why > is the idea 'to question

or not to question' important? Do easterns > think questioning

automatically means doubt or lack of faith? It > could be so basic

and we make it a very complex issue> > due to culture. Questions

that come from the quest are very holy > and deserve to be answered.

The very impetus to enlighten is the > same nature of the question, I

feel. > > > > Also, why can't we be relaxed with our Guru? Is

anything else > putting on airs?> > > > Astraea brings up some good

topics..> > > > astraea2003 <astraea2003> wrote:> > Sarada,> >

Thanks for the great Shree Maa stories!> > One of the things (I found

interesting in these stories)

is our > > American habit of questioning everything. As you know, in

the > > traditional Hindu way, the Guru's suggestions are treated as

> commands > > and followed without question.> > > > It's so natural

for us to question everything. It's very funny that > > we treat the

Guru as if She were an ordinary human being. (And I > > suspect She

probably makes a point of being as "ordinary" as > > possible.)> >

Very funny stories!> > > > Jai Maa!> > Astraea> > > > --- In

, "Sarada" > <sarada_saraswati> > >

wrote:> > > Latha, I have a similar story but the result was a bit >

different. > > A > > > few years ago the wooden bridge that leads to

our Mandir needed > to > > > be replaced. It was starting to rot away

and

every time a car > > passed > > > over it there was a good chance that

it would be the end of the > > > bridge. One day when we finally

decided to rebuild it, I was > > > starting the first stage of the

demolition of the old bridge in a > > > very light rain, and Maa

walked by and said that I should go > inside > > > because the wet

weather conditions would make me sick. I has > lived > > > in some

pretty extreme climates in my life and to me this light > > rain > >

> posed no threat at all to my health especially because I had a >

very > > > strong immune system and had been used to working in

freezing > rain > > > and snow during the previous five years in

Boston. So I > considered > > > the advice to be nothing but Maa just

being the sweet mother to > her > > > children and

kept right on doing what I was doing.> > > > > > The next day I woke

up with the worst flu that I can remember > > > having in my life and

I was in bed for a week. I couldn't believe > > > it, I hadn't been

sick at all for years and now this. I then > > > remembered Maa's

advice. Sometimes the Guru sees thing that we > just > > > can't

perceive and give advice according to that intuition. As > > >

devotees, we have to have faith that they know what is best for > us

> > > even when we think that we know better. Sometimes they are just

> > > testing us. Ma told me a story once of one of Her Gurus telling

> Her > > > to eat a rock. When She put it in Her mouth and began to

chew it > > > turned into a delicious sweet. > > > > > > There is

another story that happened when we were

building Maa's > > > house. There was a big oak tree in the front yard

that Maa > decided > > > one day that it needed to come down. She was

afraid that one day > > the > > > tree would fall on Her house. This

was a difficult proposition > for > > > us because the angle of the

tree put the house at risk of being > > > toppled when we would cut

it, so we tried to talk Her out of it. > > The > > > tree appeared to

be perfectly healthy to us so we felt confident > > > taking

responsibility for letting the tree stay. "Of course it > > won't > >

> fall down," we thought, "What does She know about trees anyways >

and > > > besides, the tree shows no signs decay at all. This tree

will be > > > here for another hundred years easily." Well, after a

few days of > > > debate we

decided to listen to the Divine Mother and we cut down > > the > > >

tree. To our surprise, the entire center of the tree was rotten > and

> > > it would have only been a matter of time before Maa would have >

been > > > surprised by a crashing tree falling into Her kitchen.> > >

> > > Even though from the outside the tree showed no signs at all

of > > > danger, Maa saw inside the tree and was giving Her advice

from > that > > > perspective. I would imagine that all of Her words

come from this > > > same intuition. > > > > > > > > > --- In

, "kamalama_2002" > > >

<kamalama_2002> wrote:> > > > As we purify more and more, I pray

that our will comes into > > > harmony > > > > with the Divine

Will. Not only that, but that we intuit, and > > know > > > > without

uncertainty, and yield to that Divine Will! Is the > > Guru's > > > >

desire also the Divine Will? You surrendered! Jai Maa!> > > > > > >

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November 18, 2003

Dear Kelly,

You are quite correct love and obedience to the Guru are entirely

different.

Love is something you need to feel from the heart and that may take

time and circumstance. Obedience is from your mind and can start

right now , at this point, where you are.

As I mentioned in another post, we can do what is perceived in our

control and let the other things unfold as they should. I am using

this on myself and will let you know how it turns out.

It is a risk . What other choice do we have?

Also this is my experience and I speak for myself alone - some people

are born spiritual, some people make a conscious choice to be

spiritual and others have spirituality thrust on them. I am a part of

the third category - God or nature is playing with me 'Here see if

you can deal with this situation. The only way out of it is to keep

praying . Can you ?' . I am saying "I can" and "I also need help".

Nature tells me "That will be given .Here is your Guru. Work with

her".

So, you are in the right track - you keep doing whatever you need to

and if a physical Guru is a choice for you , it will happen whether

you want it or not.

As my beloved husband always says

"If it has to happen it will".

Love

Latha

, Kelly Leeper <blissnout>

wrote:

> Latha Nanda,

>

> Yes, twice bitten twice aware more so than shy:) Getting bitten