Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a cover for the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri mantra itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a matter of tradition. In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri Gayatri is used without its "cover": om tat savitur varenyam bhargodevasya dheemahi dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: om tat purushaya vidmahe wakratundaya dhimahi tanno danti prachodayat Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe tanno devi prachodayat So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" when it's not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Astraea, Because it's part of the shakti of the mantra now. It's not about "tradition" as a custom, but Tradition as Wisdom. Chris , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a cover for > the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri mantra > itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a matter > of tradition. > > In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri Gayatri is > used without its "cover": > > om tat savitur varenyam > bhargodevasya dheemahi > dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat > > This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: > > om tat purushaya vidmahe > wakratundaya dhimahi > tanno danti prachodayat > > Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: > > om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe > sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe > tanno devi prachodayat > > So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" when it's > not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? > > Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Hi Chris, Thank you for your advice. So when you say the cover is now "part of the shakti of the mantra", I interprete this to mean that the Savitri Gayatri in this form has an egregore. And the way to tap into the egregore of this mantra, is to use it the way it has been used for centuries (if not millenia). Interesting. Astraea , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Astraea, > > Because it's part of the shakti of the mantra now. > > It's not about "tradition" as a custom, but Tradition as Wisdom. > > Chris > > > , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> > wrote: > > According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a cover for > > the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri mantra > > itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a > matter > > of tradition. > > > > In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri Gayatri is > > used without its "cover": > > > > om tat savitur varenyam > > bhargodevasya dheemahi > > dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat > > > > This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: > > > > om tat purushaya vidmahe > > wakratundaya dhimahi > > tanno danti prachodayat > > > > Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: > > > > om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe > > sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe > > tanno devi prachodayat > > > > So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" when it's > > not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? > > > > Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Astraea, Yes, that is part of my understanding, though I may be wrong. I don't know if egregore is quite the right idea, though I think (in my limited understanding of the subject) it may apply to other mantras. This mantra is said to manifest either Gayatri Mata or Savitri. I don't know anything about Gayatri Mata, but Savitri is not a creation of the mantra, but a self-existent being whom the mantra unveils. My understanding of an egregore is just the opposite (though I admit I had to actually look it up to see what it meant). As far as the "cover" is concerned, I think you will find that your japa will bear fruit faster with, rather than without. In the same way, the use of nyasas can increase the effectiveness, as can homa, and Tantric ritual. In his book on mantra and initiation, Pandit Tigunait explains that within a tradition a given mantra will be pronounced and practiced in a certain manner, even when common usage might suggest a different way. In order to fully experience the shakti which flows from the tradition, the initiate should practice the mantra as the tradition dictates. Chris , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > Hi Chris, > Thank you for your advice. So when you say the cover is now "part of > the shakti of the mantra", I interprete this to mean that the Savitri > Gayatri in this form has an egregore. And the way to tap into the > egregore of this mantra, is to use it the way it has been used for > centuries (if not millenia). Interesting. > > Astraea > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Astraea, > > > > Because it's part of the shakti of the mantra now. > > > > It's not about "tradition" as a custom, but Tradition as Wisdom. > > > > Chris > > > > > > , "astraea2003" > <astraea2003> > > wrote: > > > According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a cover > for > > > the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri mantra > > > itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a > > matter > > > of tradition. > > > > > > In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri Gayatri is > > > used without its "cover": > > > > > > om tat savitur varenyam > > > bhargodevasya dheemahi > > > dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat > > > > > > This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: > > > > > > om tat purushaya vidmahe > > > wakratundaya dhimahi > > > tanno danti prachodayat > > > > > > Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: > > > > > > om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe > > > sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe > > > tanno devi prachodayat > > > > > > So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" when > it's > > > not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? > > > > > > Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Namaste Chris, I think the concept of an egregore is pertinent here, but it's not worth arguing over. Yes, I agree that the mantra does reveal a self- existent being (the True Self), but it also taps into an egregore created by the energy of countless chanters over millenia. I believe the Hindu gods/goddesses are created god-forms. That includes Savitri/Saraswati & Gayatri Mata. I happen to like Hindu god/goddess forms, but I believe ALL god-forms are man-made. They act as focal points and they DO really exist as egregores on the subtle planes. But they have no ultimate reality, they act as vehicles to the Ultimate Reality. Yes, I agree with you as far as respecting the teachings of a tradition. I'm sure using the accepted form of the mantra is more powerful & will bear fruit more quickly. I'm wondering if anyone else is experimenting with the Gayatri without its "cover"? I believe the Gayatri is powerful even without its cover. Astraea , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Astraea, > > Yes, that is part of my understanding, though I may be wrong. I don't > know if egregore is quite the right idea, though I think (in my > limited understanding of the subject) it may apply to other mantras. > This mantra is said to manifest either Gayatri Mata or Savitri. I > don't know anything about Gayatri Mata, but Savitri is not a creation > of the mantra, but a self-existent being whom the mantra unveils. My > understanding of an egregore is just the opposite (though I admit I > had to actually look it up to see what it meant). > > As far as the "cover" is concerned, I think you will find that your > japa will bear fruit faster with, rather than without. In the same > way, the use of nyasas can increase the effectiveness, as can homa, > and Tantric ritual. > > In his book on mantra and initiation, Pandit Tigunait explains that > within a tradition a given mantra will be pronounced and practiced in > a certain manner, even when common usage might suggest a different > way. In order to fully experience the shakti which flows from the > tradition, the initiate should practice the mantra as the tradition > dictates. > > Chris > > > > , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> > wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > Thank you for your advice. So when you say the cover is now "part > of > > the shakti of the mantra", I interprete this to mean that the > Savitri > > Gayatri in this form has an egregore. And the way to tap into the > > egregore of this mantra, is to use it the way it has been used for > > centuries (if not millenia). Interesting. > > > > Astraea > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Astraea, > > > > > > Because it's part of the shakti of the mantra now. > > > > > > It's not about "tradition" as a custom, but Tradition as Wisdom. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > , "astraea2003" > > <astraea2003> > > > wrote: > > > > According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a cover > > for > > > > the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri > mantra > > > > itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a > > > matter > > > > of tradition. > > > > > > > > In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri Gayatri > is > > > > used without its "cover": > > > > > > > > om tat savitur varenyam > > > > bhargodevasya dheemahi > > > > dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat > > > > > > > > This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: > > > > > > > > om tat purushaya vidmahe > > > > wakratundaya dhimahi > > > > tanno danti prachodayat > > > > > > > > Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: > > > > > > > > om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe > > > > sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe > > > > tanno devi prachodayat > > > > > > > > So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" when > > it's > > > > not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? > > > > > > > > Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Astraea, I don't know much about this, I've only seen it referred to a couple of times, but according to tradition, at the beginning of each creation cycle, various realized beings are selected to embody the various forces of Nature: sun, moon, fire, etc. These great and compassionate beings then spend the entire cycle serving Divine Mother and all her children in their unique ways, each according to her function. These beings are not the same as the lower gods, or forces of nature, who are not fully realized and must one day regain a human body and complete their sadhana. It is an exciting idea. Chris , "astraea2003" <astraea2003> wrote: > Namaste Chris, > I think the concept of an egregore is pertinent here, but it's not > worth arguing over. Yes, I agree that the mantra does reveal a self- > existent being (the True Self), but it also taps into an egregore > created by the energy of countless chanters over millenia. I believe > the Hindu gods/goddesses are created god-forms. That includes > Savitri/Saraswati & Gayatri Mata. I happen to like Hindu god/goddess > forms, but I believe ALL god-forms are man-made. They act as focal > points and they DO really exist as egregores on the subtle planes. > But they have no ultimate reality, they act as vehicles to the > Ultimate Reality. > > Yes, I agree with you as far as respecting the teachings of a > tradition. I'm sure using the accepted form of the mantra is more > powerful & will bear fruit more quickly. I'm wondering if anyone else > is experimenting with the Gayatri without its "cover"? I believe the > Gayatri is powerful even without its cover. > > Astraea > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Astraea, > > > > Yes, that is part of my understanding, though I may be wrong. I > don't > > know if egregore is quite the right idea, though I think (in my > > limited understanding of the subject) it may apply to other > mantras. > > This mantra is said to manifest either Gayatri Mata or Savitri. I > > don't know anything about Gayatri Mata, but Savitri is not a > creation > > of the mantra, but a self-existent being whom the mantra unveils. > My > > understanding of an egregore is just the opposite (though I admit I > > had to actually look it up to see what it meant). > > > > As far as the "cover" is concerned, I think you will find that your > > japa will bear fruit faster with, rather than without. In the same > > way, the use of nyasas can increase the effectiveness, as can homa, > > and Tantric ritual. > > > > In his book on mantra and initiation, Pandit Tigunait explains that > > within a tradition a given mantra will be pronounced and practiced > in > > a certain manner, even when common usage might suggest a different > > way. In order to fully experience the shakti which flows from the > > tradition, the initiate should practice the mantra as the tradition > > dictates. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "astraea2003" > <astraea2003> > > wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > Thank you for your advice. So when you say the cover is now "part > > of > > > the shakti of the mantra", I interprete this to mean that the > > Savitri > > > Gayatri in this form has an egregore. And the way to tap into the > > > egregore of this mantra, is to use it the way it has been used > for > > > centuries (if not millenia). Interesting. > > > > > > Astraea > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > > Astraea, > > > > > > > > Because it's part of the shakti of the mantra now. > > > > > > > > It's not about "tradition" as a custom, but Tradition as Wisdom. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "astraea2003" > > > <astraea2003> > > > > wrote: > > > > > According to Pandit Tigunait, "Om Bhurbhuvassuvaha" is a > cover > > > for > > > > > the Savitri Gayatri and NOT actually a part of the Gayatri > > mantra > > > > > itself. But it is chanted as part of the Savitri Gayatri as a > > > > matter > > > > > of tradition. > > > > > > > > > > In the Devi Mandir Lakshmi Puja book, the true Savitri > Gayatri > > is > > > > > used without its "cover": > > > > > > > > > > om tat savitur varenyam > > > > > bhargodevasya dheemahi > > > > > dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat > > > > > > > > > > This is very similar in form to the Ganesha Gayatri: > > > > > > > > > > om tat purushaya vidmahe > > > > > wakratundaya dhimahi > > > > > tanno danti prachodayat > > > > > > > > > > Compare these with the Lakshmi Gayatri: > > > > > > > > > > om mahalakshmyai cha vidmahe > > > > > sarva shaktyai cha dhimahe > > > > > tanno devi prachodayat > > > > > > > > > > So my question is, why does one have to chant the "cover" > when > > > it's > > > > > not part of the true Savitri Gayatri? > > > > > > > > > > Astraea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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