Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining humble and close to the ground. (Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above others) She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! Jai Maa Jai Ramakrishna Love, Nitya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I really like that "no pillows"!!!! "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma > Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:48:48 -0000 No pillows! Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining humble and close to the ground. (Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above others) She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! Jai Maa Jai Ramakrishna Love, Nitya Sponsor Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!" I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions. Jai Swamiji, Brian At 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote: >Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no >matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining >humble and close to the ground. >(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others) >She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to >other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other >words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of >mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." >Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! >Jai Maa >Jai Ramakrishna >Love, >Nitya > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Humility is often misunderstood. It does not mean thinking you are nothing and God is everything. How can God create anyone who is insignificant, unimportant, or without value? True humility is being humbled by your own magnificence, as well as the wonder and awe of all of creation. You are humbled because you are deeply grateful for this miraculous life, this astounding gift you have been given, as well as this divine opportunity to experience heaven on this earth. Furthermore, motivated by self-love as well as love of humanity-- and seeing there is ultimately no separation between your true self-interest and that of others-- your humility springs you into service. You understand the amazing self-esteem of people like Mother Teresa and Ghandhi who-- although they appeared to care little for themselves-- actually had such a strong sense of self, purpose, and love that there was no question of their giving themselves completely to serve this world. Humility takes you out of spiritual egotism and gives you the earthly wisdom you need to be fully self-realized in a world of divine contradictions. Be humble. Be strong. Learn to laugh more. Cry when you need to. Serve others whenever given the chance. Ardis Jackson <anandamama (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: I really like that "no pillows"!!!! "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:48:48 -0000To: Subject: No pillows! Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaininghumble and close to the ground.(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above others)She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults."Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!Jai MaaJai RamakrishnaLove,Nitya Sponsor To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service <> . To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Nitya Ma, Yes, it is amazing to meet someone truly humble. They leave a powerful impression. I think true humility (as opposed to the carefully cultured variety) is a good gage of spiritual maturity. Chris , "nitya_ma" <nitya_ma> wrote: > Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no > matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining > humble and close to the ground. > (Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above others) > She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to > other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other > words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of > mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." > Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! > Jai Maa > Jai Ramakrishna > Love, > Nitya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Brian, What you say makes sense to me. But it reminds me of a conversation I had with Swamiji. He said "you don't drop the ego, it just gets bigger and bigger and thinner and thinner like an expanding soap bubble until it disappears." I really liked that description. I also liked the radiant smile that went with it. Ardis Brian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:40:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Re: No pillows! Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! Kelly Brian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!" I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions. Jai Swamiji, Brian At 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote: >Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no >matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining >humble and close to the ground. >(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others) >She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to >other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other >words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of >mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." >Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! >Jai Maa >Jai Ramakrishna >Love, >Nitya > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). <http://www.grisoft.com)./> >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 Terms of Service <> . --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now <http://us.rd./slv/mailtag/*http://companion./> Sponsor Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Brian, I can see what you are saying, but it was stated too mental to be of practicle use for me, maybe not others, but for me. I think, and from my experience, it's alot more simple. We give the ego too much power in it's stronghold. I say this because in my experience, even masters and the most enlightened people I have encountered have ego's that are refined, not obliterated. Also, my neptune is in the first house and neptune disolves the first house energies (ego) and so for me, I see the ego as a very transparent entity. I don't see it as a bad guy. If you make something bad,evil then you are at odds with it and no unification will ever happen as long as there is duality. Once the true nature of what the ego is is understood, there is not much of a fight or opposing force. The aspirant no longer calls the ego the bad guy or the undesireable because we understand what it really is. The story of the Chandi is great for one who is encountering their ego for the first time consciously when the ego does have a stronghold and then even after realization (and advanced sadhana) the disciple witnesses the ego as a mask. It's all in what you identify with, are you the mask or the light coming thru the mask? With sincereity we approach the path thru our ego. Thru sadhana, we do our sadhana thru the ego and by the time kundalini stikes, we have refined the ego to a state where the kundalini will not shatter the person. If kundalini happens before the ego is refined, the disciple shatters and they cannot operate at all religiously or worldly. So, I see the ego not as the bad guy, but as the mask we operate thru. When at a masquerade party, we see the masks and not the person behind the mask. But when we wear the mask we know we are not the mask but others don't know who we are because they think WE are the mask and not the real mccoy. Ever notice how a mask has energy even if it's on the wall...kinda spooky like a clown face? It's only a mask but still carries a drama. When we start sadhana our mask might look like a beast or something otherworldly but as our ego refines, the light shining thru the mask changes the mask. it's still a mask, but it becomes more true to the energies the person wearing the mask IS. The mask organic in that it changes, but the light inside doesn't. Once we no longer want to play at the masquerade ball, we leave this plane all together and drop the mask and not until. When we realize we are not the mask but also realize we have to wear it as a tool for the lila, then we understand the Mask doesn't go away. It might get more transparent, thinner, but it does not go away. Energy is not non dual. It's both dual and non dual. I've heard stories of peoples Guru's and what they say. The devotee will always see the Guru as egoless, but if you take an obective look, even Guru's in a physical body have their ego's even after realization. To give the Mask or ego too much power is a mistake I think. So, when we affirm the Goddess in everyone, the light that shines thru everyones mask, we affirm their enlightened potential to fruition. Same for ourselves. This is why to concentrate on someone elses mask is to avoid looking at our own and is a dead end. If you affirm you are not the light of consciousness that comes thru the mask, then what are you? If you affirm you are not Her for fear of self agrandizement what are you focusing on? Brian, you are that and if you fall into self agrandizement, you will get out of it. People talk like the ego is the eternal damnation. It's a tool, that is all. Take the charge off it and see it for what it is. Too much emotional charge gives it way too much attention. Jai Maa! KellyBrian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Kelly, This is absolutely fabulous. I love your description of the ego as the mask and the effect the light of consciousness has on the mask as it shines through. You are so right about the ego being a tool. Thank you, dear. Ardis Kelly Leeper <blissnout > Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:09:03 -0800 (PST) Re: No pillows! Brian, I can see what you are saying, but it was stated too mental to be of practicle use for me, maybe not others, but for me. I think, and from my experience, it's alot more simple. We give the ego too much power in it's stronghold. I say this because in my experience, even masters and the most enlightened people I have encountered have ego's that are refined, not obliterated. Also, my neptune is in the first house and neptune disolves the first house energies (ego) and so for me, I see the ego as a very transparent entity. I don't see it as a bad guy. If you make something bad,evil then you are at odds with it and no unification will ever happen as long as there is duality. Once the true nature of what the ego is is understood, there is not much of a fight or opposing force. The aspirant no longer calls the ego the bad guy or the undesireable because we understand what it really is. The story of the Chandi is great for one who is encountering their ego for the first time consciously when the ego does have a stronghold and then even after realization (and advanced sadhana) the disciple witnesses the ego as a mask. It's all in what you identify with, are you the mask or the light coming thru the mask? With sincereity we approach the path thru our ego. Thru sadhana, we do our sadhana thru the ego and by the time kundalini stikes, we have refined the ego to a state where the kundalini will not shatter the person. If kundalini happens before the ego is refined, the disciple shatters and they cannot operate at all religiously or worldly. So, I see the ego not as the bad guy, but as the mask we operate thru. When at a masquerade party, we see the masks and not the person behind the mask. But when we wear the mask we know we are not the mask but others don't know who we are because they think WE are the mask and not the real mccoy. Ever notice how a mask has energy even if it's on the wall...kinda spooky like a clown face? It's only a mask but still carries a drama. When we start sadhana our mask might look like a beast or something otherworldly but as our ego refines, the light shining thru the mask changes the mask. it's still a mask, but it becomes more true to the energies the person wearing the mask IS. The mask organic in that it changes, but the light inside doesn't. Once we no longer want to play at the masquerade ball, we leave this plane all together and drop the mask and not until. When we realize we are not the mask but also realize we have to wear it as a tool for the lila, then we understand the Mask doesn't go away. It might get more transparent, thinner, but it does not go away. Energy is not non dual. It's both dual and non dual. I've heard stories of peoples Guru's and what they say. The devotee will always see the Guru as egoless, but if you take an obective look, even Guru's in a physical body have their ego's even after realization. To give the Mask or ego too much power is a mistake I think. So, when we affirm the Goddess in everyone, the light that shines thru everyones mask, we affirm their enlightened potential to fruition. Same for ourselves. This is why to concentrate on someone elses mask is to avoid looking at our own and is a dead end. If you affirm you are not the light of consciousness that comes thru the mask, then what are you? If you affirm you are not Her for fear of self agrandizement what are you focusing on? Brian, you are that and if you fall into self agrandizement, you will get out of it. People talk like the ego is the eternal damnation. It's a tool, that is all. Take the charge off it and see it for what it is. Too much emotional charge gives it way too much attention. Jai Maa! Kelly Brian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! Kelly Brian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!" I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions. Jai Swamiji, Brian At 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote: >Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no >matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining >humble and close to the ground. >(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others) >She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to >other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other >words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of >mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." >Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! >Jai Maa >Jai Ramakrishna >Love, >Nitya > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). <http://www.grisoft.com)./> >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 Terms of Service <> . --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Kelly, Yes. The ego forgets that She is the epitome of humility and loving service. It focuses on the greatness, on separation rather than unity with others, even those caught-up in evil. Chris , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote: > Brian, > > The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. > If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. > Jai Ma! > Kelly > > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you > can only fall upward!" > > I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but > the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through > us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't > get trapped in their own dilusions. > > Jai Swamiji, > > Brian > > > At 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote: > > >Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no > >matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining > >humble and close to the ground. > >(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above > >others) > >She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to > >other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other > >words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of > >mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults." > >Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works! > >Jai Maa > >Jai Ramakrishna > >Love, > >Nitya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 > rian > > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Ardis, I like that analogy as well. The ego gets so thin thats its as if it doesn't exist at all.And the Cheshire Cat grin, I love that too! Brian Ardis Jackson Dec 1, 2003 5:57 PM Re: No pillows! Brian,What you say makes sense to me.But it reminds me of a conversation I had with Swamiji. He said "you don't drop the ego, it just gets bigger and bigger and thinner and thinner like an expanding soap bubble until it disappears." I really liked that description. I also liked the radiant smile that went with it.Ardis Brian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:40:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00)Subject: Re: No pillows! Kelly,In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane.We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere.When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god.Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement.In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere.So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic.OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA.Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made.But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya.Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose.The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects.I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful.Did this make sense?Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM To: Re: No pillows! Brian,The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth.If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference.Jai Ma!KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). <http://www.grisoft.com)./> >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service <> . ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now <http://us.rd./slv/mailtag/*http://companion./> Sponsor To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service <> . 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Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Kelly, I think you are assuming that I dislike my ego or fear it. I don't. I used to. I spent a great deal of time in self deprecation fearing the possibility of becoming an ego-maniac, but that's not where my post came from. I actually think you and I believe along the same lines, but our words are failing to communicate that similarity. We seem to be arguing over the definition of words, not the intent behind them. I don't see the energy as dual. That may just be a difference of perspective. When I speak of energy I'm talking about the energy that is sensed by my senses but is not composed of things that my senses were designed to detect. The energy goes beyond feeling, it is LOVE but not at all romantic in nature. I see Maya as dual, but Maya herself is a creation of the energy, not the energy itself and I think that's the root of its dualistic nature. It is the fact that it is the energy manifested to be not the energy that is its dual nature.The entire idea I was trying to bring across in my post is that ego has to see itself for what it is and then we, as the light behind the mask (as you describe it) can shift our perspective and stop identifying with the mask. My experience shows that most people identify with the aspects of the mask that they feel safe with, usually the more positive aspects of the mask. Oh its beautiful or its smart, they feel inside themselves. But they have to ignore the negative aspects because they don't want to see that the mask is flawed. It is denial of the full state of the mask that drives people to continue to identify with things outside even the mask. Find a copy of "The Cave," by Plato, his analogy is perfect. My first step in spiritual awakening was to recognize that I'm imperfect and that who I am is not what I do in the world, what I feel, what people think or feel about me, or how people treat me. That brought me to the mask and after some effort to try and ignore who it is, I finally accepted it for all its weaknesses. This lead me to the question, "How did I (that is to say my mask) get to be so messed up?" Then began the peeling of the onion, the layers of the mask built by fate, my surroundings, and my reactions to fate and my surroundings. After a time, I found the light behind the mask because I had peeled enough layers and grown sensative enough to the energy to begin to see it and feel it. Now I acknowledge the light itself as part of me and am working on identifying with it, instead of the mask. But the mask itself is where my attention is right now. Its the level at which I exist right now. I feel the energy, and I sense the consciousness, but I don't yet identify with it. This leads me back to what Bhuvananda said on Saturday. Aware awareness. My awareness is focused on the mask and begining to sense the energy and consciousness, but the question is: who is the awareness itself? What is it that identifies with the mask? Is that me? Or am I the energy or the consciousness I sense? I mentally know that I'm not the mask, but I haven't yet experienced much beyond it, I haven't yet identified with anything else. I have only taken one small step. I stopped identifyiing myself with objects in my life and with my body. But I still identify myself as Brian the mind-ego thingy. Maa will continue to urge me toward my final destination: that is union with awareness. Swamiji often jokes about falling into too much and too little. I seem to spend too much time bouncing between self-deprecation and self aggrandizement. I keep them internal as much as is possible. The only one I show them to is Swamiji and I don't understand why I do it. Probably something to do with my search for a noble father figure. But that's breaking into psychology and isn't really necessary. OM AIM HRIM KLIM -- The first part of the Mantra to call the Energy Who Tears Apart Thought. This is where I am on my journey, attempting to find balance of the three gunas. Trying to make a way for Chandi to come in and do battle on a balanced battle field. Unless I pave the way for her by surrendering to her, she can't come in. It goes back to the promise that Mother made when she created us, "I will not interfere in your existance," she said, "your will is your own." It is through the deliberate misunderstanding and deliberate misleading of man that he fell during Kali-Yugh. It is on purpose and part of the plan that we all forget who we are. It is through this experience that we are given the opportunity to rediscover who we are inviting Mother back into our lives. All pujas, all ceremonies, all actions, all thoughts, all feelings, all Mantras, all words, all of everything have that single purpose. Some things get us there faster than others, but in the end it all comes down to the one: Maa. I'm at the stage where I'm balancing my Rajas, Tamas, and Satva, trying to prepare a way for mother to move in and show me who I am. The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that it is only through surrender to the now that I can continue on my journey. Only through acceptance of my various aspects that I can continue to grow toward balance. You can't balance that which you cannot see, so you have to see it all, every positive and negative aspect of yourself. I don't hate myself anymore. You don't have to worry about that. But you are right, I used to. *hugs* Thanks for caring, Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 6:09 PM Re: No pillows! Brian, I can see what you are saying, but it was stated too mental to be of practicle use for me, maybe not others, but for me. I think, and from my experience, it's alot more simple. We give the ego too much power in it's stronghold. I say this because in my experience, even masters and the most enlightened people I have encountered have ego's that are refined, not obliterated. Also, my neptune is in the first house and neptune disolves the first house energies (ego) and so for me, I see the ego as a very transparent entity. I don't see it as a bad guy. If you make something bad,evil then you are at odds with it and no unification will ever happen as long as there is duality. Once the true nature of what the ego is is understood, there is not much of a fight or opposing force. The aspirant no longer calls the ego the bad guy or the undesireable because we understand what it really is. The story of the Chandi is great for one who is encountering their ego for the first time consciously when the ego does have a stronghold and then even after realization (and advanced sadhana) the disciple witnesses the ego as a mask. It's all in what you identify with, are you the mask or the light coming thru the mask? With sincereity we approach the path thru our ego. Thru sadhana, we do our sadhana thru the ego and by the time kundalini stikes, we have refined the ego to a state where the kundalini will not shatter the person. If kundalini happens before the ego is refined, the disciple shatters and they cannot operate at all religiously or worldly. So, I see the ego not as the bad guy, but as the mask we operate thru. When at a masquerade party, we see the masks and not the person behind the mask. But when we wear the mask we know we are not the mask but others don't know who we are because they think WE are the mask and not the real mccoy. Ever notice how a mask has energy even if it's on the wall...kinda spooky like a clown face? It's only a mask but still carries a drama. When we start sadhana our mask might look like a beast or something otherworldly but as our ego refines, the light shining thru the mask changes the mask. it's still a mask, but it becomes more true to the energies the person wearing the mask IS. The mask organic in that it changes, but the light inside doesn't. Once we no longer want to play at the masquerade ball, we leave this plane all together and drop the mask and not until. When we realize we are not the mask but also realize we have to wear it as a tool for the lila, then we understand the Mask doesn't go away. It might get more transparent, thinner, but it does not go away. Energy is not non dual. It's both dual and non dual. I've heard stories of peoples Guru's and what they say. The devotee will always see the Guru as egoless, but if you take an obective look, even Guru's in a physical body have their ego's even after realization. To give the Mask or ego too much power is a mistake I think. So, when we affirm the Goddess in everyone, the light that shines thru everyones mask, we affirm their enlightened potential to fruition. Same for ourselves. This is why to concentrate on someone elses mask is to avoid looking at our own and is a dead end. If you affirm you are not the light of consciousness that comes thru the mask, then what are you? If you affirm you are not Her for fear of self agrandizement what are you focusing on? Brian, you are that and if you fall into self agrandizement, you will get out of it. People talk like the ego is the eternal damnation. It's a tool, that is all. Take the charge off it and see it for what it is. Too much emotional charge gives it way too much attention. Jai Maa! KellyBrian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Thanks:) I'm passionate tonight and when I get that way I think someone's gonna paddle my hiney. Teehee. So thanks for telling me that:) Thank God Wednesday is my day off:) I'm up late! Hugs and love, KellyArdis Jackson <anandamama (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: Kelly,This is absolutely fabulous. I love your description of the ego as the mask and the effect the light of consciousness has on the mask as it shines through. You are so right about the ego being a tool.Thank you, dear.Ardis Kelly Leeper <blissnout > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:09:03 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: No pillows! Brian, I can see what you are saying, but it was stated too mental to be of practicle use for me, maybe not others, but for me. I think, and from my experience, it's alot more simple. We give the ego too much power in it's stronghold. I say this because in my experience, even masters and the most enlightened people I have encountered have ego's that are refined, not obliterated. Also, my neptune is in the first house and neptune disolves the first house energies (ego) and so for me, I see the ego as a very transparent entity. I don't see it as a bad guy. If you make something bad,evil then you are at odds with it and no unification will ever happen as long as there is duality. Once the true nature of what the ego is is understood, there is not much of a fight or opposing force. The aspirant no longer calls the ego the bad guy or the undesireable because we understand what it really is. The story of the Chandi is great for one who is encountering their ego for the first time consciously when the ego does have a stronghold and then even after realization (and advanced sadhana) the disciple witnesses the ego as a mask. It's all in what you identify with, are you the mask or the light coming thru the mask? With sincereity we approach the path thru our ego. Thru sadhana, we do our sadhana thru the ego and by the time kundalini stikes, we have refined the ego to a state where the kundalini will not shatter the person. If kundalini happens before the ego is refined, the disciple shatters and they cannot operate at all religiously or worldly. So, I see the ego not as the bad guy, but as the mask we operate thru. When at a masquerade party, we see the masks and not the person behind the mask. But when we wear the mask we know we are not the mask but others don't know who we are because they think WE are the mask and not the real mccoy. Ever notice how a mask has energy even if it's on the wall...kinda spooky like a clown face? It's only a mask but still carries a drama. When we start sadhana our mask might look like a beast or something otherworldly but as our ego refines, the light shining thru the mask changes the mask. it's still a mask, but it becomes more true to the energies the person wearing the mask IS. The mask organic in that it changes, but the light inside doesn't. Once we no longer want to play at the masquerade ball, we leave this plane all together and drop the mask and not until. When we realize we are not the mask but also realize we have to wear it as a tool for the lila, then we understand the Mask doesn't go away. It might get more transparent, thinner, but it does not go away. Energy is not non dual. It's both dual and non dual. I've heard stories of peoples Guru's and what they say. The devotee will always see the Guru as egoless, but if you take an obective look, even Guru's in a physical body have their ego's even after realization. To give the Mask or ego too much power is a mistake I think.So, when we affirm the Goddess in everyone, the light that shines thru everyones mask, we affirm their enlightened potential to fruition. Same for ourselves. This is why to concentrate on someone elses mask is to avoid looking at our own and is a dead end. If you affirm you are not the light of consciousness that comes thru the mask, then what are you? If you affirm you are not Her for fear of self agrandizement what are you focusing on? Brian, you are that and if you fall into self agrandizement, you will get out of it. People talk like the ego is the eternal damnation. It's a tool, that is all. Take the charge off it and see it for what it is. Too much emotional charge gives it way too much attention.Jai Maa!KellyBrian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly,In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane.We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere.When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god.Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement.In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere.So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic.OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA.Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made.But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya.Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose.The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects.I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful.Did this make sense?Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian,The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth.If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference.Jai Ma!KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). <http://www.grisoft.com)./> >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service <> . ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now <http://us.rd./slv/mailtag/*http://companion./> Sponsor Sponsor To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service <> . 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Guest guest Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Attitude! Is the glass half full or have empty?Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Kelly,Yes. The ego forgets that She is the epitome of humility and loving service. It focuses on the greatness, on separation rather than unity with others, even those caught-up in evil.Chris--- In , Kelly Leeper <blissnout> wrote:> Brian,> > The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth.> If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference.> Jai Ma!> Kelly> > Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote:> And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you > can only fall upward!"> > I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but > the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through > us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't > get trapped in their own dilusions.> > Jai Swamiji,> > Brian> > > At 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:> > >Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no> >matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining> >humble and close to the ground.> >(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above > >others)> >She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to> >other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other> >words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of> >mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults."> >Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!> >Jai Maa> >Jai Ramakrishna> >Love,> >Nitya> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >To from this group, send an email to:> >> >> >> >> >Your use of is subject to > >> >> >> >> >---> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> >Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003> > Sponsor> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003> rian> > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it nowTo from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 has gone into it. I love your honesty about your psychology with Swami:) It's wonderful when we can see it, you must feel really safe with Swami to let it show. I didn't want to argue. I sometimes scratch my head though when I read what you write because I get lost.... sorry. Sorry you thought I was arguing. Hugs! OOO :)Brian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly, I think you are assuming that I dislike my ego or fear it. I don't. I used to. I spent a great deal of time in self deprecation fearing the possibility of becoming an ego-maniac, but that's not where my post came from. I actually think you and I believe along the same lines, but our words are failing to communicate that similarity. We seem to be arguing over the definition of words, not the intent behind them. I don't see the energy as dual. That may just be a difference of perspective. When I speak of energy I'm talking about the energy that is sensed by my senses but is not composed of things that my senses were designed to detect. The energy goes beyond feeling, it is LOVE but not at all romantic in nature. I see Maya as dual, but Maya herself is a creation of the energy, not the energy itself and I think that's the root of its dualistic nature. It is the fact that it is the energy manifested to be not the energy that is its dual nature.The entire idea I was trying to bring across in my post is that ego has to see itself for what it is and then we, as the light behind the mask (as you describe it) can shift our perspective and stop identifying with the mask. My experience shows that most people identify with the aspects of the mask that they feel safe with, usually the more positive aspects of the mask. Oh its beautiful or its smart, they feel inside themselves. But they have to ignore the negative aspects because they don't want to see that the mask is flawed. It is denial of the full state of the mask that drives people to continue to identify with things outside even the mask. Find a copy of "The Cave," by Plato, his analogy is perfect. My first step in spiritual awakening was to recognize that I'm imperfect and that who I am is not what I do in the world, what I feel, what people think or feel about me, or how people treat me. That brought me to the mask and after some effort to try and ignore who it is, I finally accepted it for all its weaknesses. This lead me to the question, "How did I (that is to say my mask) get to be so messed up?" Then began the peeling of the onion, the layers of the mask built by fate, my surroundings, and my reactions to fate and my surroundings. After a time, I found the light behind the mask because I had peeled enough layers and grown sensative enough to the energy to begin to see it and feel it. Now I acknowledge the light itself as part of me and am working on identifying with it, instead of the mask. But the mask itself is where my attention is right now. Its the level at which I exist right now. I feel the energy, and I sense the consciousness, but I don't yet identify with it. This leads me back to what Bhuvananda said on Saturday. Aware awareness. My awareness is focused on the mask and begining to sense the energy and consciousness, but the question is: who is the awareness itself? What is it that identifies with the mask? Is that me? Or am I the energy or the consciousness I sense? I mentally know that I'm not the mask, but I haven't yet experienced much beyond it, I haven't yet identified with anything else. I have only taken one small step. I stopped identifyiing myself with objects in my life and with my body. But I still identify myself as Brian the mind-ego thingy. Maa will continue to urge me toward my final destination: that is union with awareness. Swamiji often jokes about falling into too much and too little. I seem to spend too much time bouncing between self-deprecation and self aggrandizement. I keep them internal as much as is possible. The only one I show them to is Swamiji and I don't understand why I do it. Probably something to do with my search for a noble father figure. But that's breaking into psychology and isn't really necessary. OM AIM HRIM KLIM -- The first part of the Mantra to call the Energy Who Tears Apart Thought. This is where I am on my journey, attempting to find balance of the three gunas. Trying to make a way for Chandi to come in and do battle on a balanced battle field. Unless I pave the way for her by surrendering to her, she can't come in. It goes back to the promise that Mother made when she created us, "I will not interfere in your existance," she said, "your will is your own." It is through the deliberate misunderstanding and deliberate misleading of man that he fell during Kali-Yugh. It is on purpose and part of the plan that we all forget who we are. It is through this experience that we are given the opportunity to rediscover who we are inviting Mother back into our lives. All pujas, all ceremonies, all actions, all thoughts, all feelings, all Mantras, all words, all of everything have that single purpose. Some things get us there faster than others, but in the end it all comes down to the one: Maa. I'm at the stage where I'm balancing my Rajas, Tamas, and Satva, trying to prepare a way for mother to move in and show me who I am. The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that it is only through surrender to the now that I can continue on my journey. Only through acceptance of my various aspects that I can continue to grow toward balance. You can't balance that which you cannot see, so you have to see it all, every positive and negative aspect of yourself. I don't hate myself anymore. You don't have to worry about that. But you are right, I used to. *hugs* Thanks for caring, Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 6:09 PM Re: No pillows! Brian, I can see what you are saying, but it was stated too mental to be of practicle use for me, maybe not others, but for me. I think, and from my experience, it's alot more simple. We give the ego too much power in it's stronghold. I say this because in my experience, even masters and the most enlightened people I have encountered have ego's that are refined, not obliterated. Also, my neptune is in the first house and neptune disolves the first house energies (ego) and so for me, I see the ego as a very transparent entity. I don't see it as a bad guy. If you make something bad,evil then you are at odds with it and no unification will ever happen as long as there is duality. Once the true nature of what the ego is is understood, there is not much of a fight or opposing force. The aspirant no longer calls the ego the bad guy or the undesireable because we understand what it really is. The story of the Chandi is great for one who is encountering their ego for the first time consciously when the ego does have a stronghold and then even after realization (and advanced sadhana) the disciple witnesses the ego as a mask. It's all in what you identify with, are you the mask or the light coming thru the mask? With sincereity we approach the path thru our ego. Thru sadhana, we do our sadhana thru the ego and by the time kundalini stikes, we have refined the ego to a state where the kundalini will not shatter the person. If kundalini happens before the ego is refined, the disciple shatters and they cannot operate at all religiously or worldly. So, I see the ego not as the bad guy, but as the mask we operate thru. When at a masquerade party, we see the masks and not the person behind the mask. But when we wear the mask we know we are not the mask but others don't know who we are because they think WE are the mask and not the real mccoy. Ever notice how a mask has energy even if it's on the wall...kinda spooky like a clown face? It's only a mask but still carries a drama. When we start sadhana our mask might look like a beast or something otherworldly but as our ego refines, the light shining thru the mask changes the mask. it's still a mask, but it becomes more true to the energies the person wearing the mask IS. The mask organic in that it changes, but the light inside doesn't. Once we no longer want to play at the masquerade ball, we leave this plane all together and drop the mask and not until. When we realize we are not the mask but also realize we have to wear it as a tool for the lila, then we understand the Mask doesn't go away. It might get more transparent, thinner, but it does not go away. Energy is not non dual. It's both dual and non dual. I've heard stories of peoples Guru's and what they say. The devotee will always see the Guru as egoless, but if you take an obective look, even Guru's in a physical body have their ego's even after realization. To give the Mask or ego too much power is a mistake I think. So, when we affirm the Goddess in everyone, the light that shines thru everyones mask, we affirm their enlightened potential to fruition. Same for ourselves. This is why to concentrate on someone elses mask is to avoid looking at our own and is a dead end. If you affirm you are not the light of consciousness that comes thru the mask, then what are you? If you affirm you are not Her for fear of self agrandizement what are you focusing on? Brian, you are that and if you fall into self agrandizement, you will get out of it. People talk like the ego is the eternal damnation. It's a tool, that is all. Take the charge off it and see it for what it is. Too much emotional charge gives it way too much attention. Jai Maa! KellyBrian T McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: Kelly, In my opinion, the ego cannot recognize that it is goddess, because it isn't. It really is just a side effect of consciousness meeting reality. Its like what happens when a soap bubble (a sphere) meets a glass plane, at the place where they touch, a circle is seen. Ego is that circle, merely a projection of the sphere of consciousness. The cirlce itself isn't really there, its just a perception from the plane of the glass. Maya is the glass plane. We are not our ego, nor our mind, nor our body or emotions. We are much more than those things. We are the sphere. When I contemplate the realization that I am god, I am changing my perspective to match hers, I am not claiming that my ego or my mind are god. Its a subtle difference. But it keeps me from falling into self agrandizement. In a very real sense, everything is mother, especially Maya herself, but the maya is designed to be something representative of something other than Mother goddess. And since mind, thoughts, emotions, and ego are projections into the Maya, they are also designed to be something they are not. Thus they are dualistic. They are circles of the sphere. So realizing that I am she who looks out through my eyes is a shift in perspective, not an admition that the little me is "actually" the big she. I am that (as Bhuvananda said Saturday to me) is "aware awareness." It is identification with that which is not dualistic. OM NAMASHIVAYA. OM HRIM SHRIM DUM DURGAYE NAMAHA. Consciousness and energy are not dualistic and identification with them is accurate. The ego, as such, cannot identify with anything but dualism because it is limited to that of which it is made. But our souls (as I like to call them) are not dualistic and shifting our perspective to our soul and looking toward goddess removes us from the dualistic nature of Maya. Its not an ego process. Its not a mental process. Its not an emotional process. Its a process of awareness. A process of surrender. The ego is just an ego and accepts that. It is subserviant to the soul. The circle's awareness accepts the presence of the greater sphere and recognizes its own limitations. The sphere then realizes that it too is just a part of a greater, multidimensional sphere that we call goddess and it accepts itself at face value and surrenders to her. Then in turn, she will do the same when she's done with this inner growth of her own, when her universes have served her purpose. The process involves Shiva and Shakti as the prototypes of non-dualistic existance and the desire of the ego to become REALISTIC with itself. Maybe thats why realization and realistic have the same root word. Realization is simply everything realistically accepting itself at face value and surrendering to its larger aspects. I'm not sure I'm bringing across the point I'm trying to make, and to be honest, as I haven't experienced non-duality (well I can't be sure of that, some "odd" things have happened in my life). I'm not sure this "mental" attempt to explain my "feelings" is going to produce anything at all useful. Did this make sense? Brian Kelly Leeper Dec 1, 2003 11:18 AM Re: No pillows! Brian, The divine paradox is that you are Her. Ego's are the filter of how she comes out of us. There's no way to change that, but we can purify the ego to align it with what is Truth. If the disciple accepts they are not her, they will never find the Truth because they will be so busy negating her presense within and without of themselves and others, always making a difference. There is no difference. Jai Ma! KellyBrian McKee <brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org> wrote: And Swamiji said (paraphrase), "Be a low guru not a high guru, that way you can only fall upward!"I think its important to be who we are, not out egos, not our minds, but the force behind our eyes. The true identity of she who is living through us. If our egos and our minds accept that they are not her, then they can't get trapped in their own dilusions.Jai Swamiji,BrianAt 11:48 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:>Tonight Swamiji and Shree talked about humility, remaining humble, no>matter what your accomplishment, no matter your enlightenment, remaining>humble and close to the ground.>(Maa said, "no pillows!"--that is, no sitting high up on cushions, above >others)>She said to remember to only look to yourself, don't pay much attention to>other people and their problems, pay attention to your own self; in other>words, similar to Sarada Devi when she said, (transl), "If you want peace of>mind, do not find fault with others, Rather see your own faults.">Simple wisdom for a complicated world, and it works!>Jai Maa>Jai Ramakrishna>Love,>Nitya>>>>>>>>To from this group, send an email to:>>>>>Your use of Groups is subject to >>>>>--->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release 11/27/2003 rian Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the To from this group, send an email to:Your use of is subject to the Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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