Guest guest Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I am in need concerning lineage...I am wondering if anyone knows the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar, is it true that Chaitanya and Ramakrishna are from this lineage, if not, can someone please straighten me out? Thanks for the help. Shubal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 I don't believe that is correct concerning Sri Ramakrsna. I don't know about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Ramakrsna's guru in terms of sadhu lineage was Totapuri from Juna Akhara. I don't know anymore about the lineage of Totapuri. - shubal108 (AT) aol (DOT) com Friday, December 19, 2003 9:48 AM help I am in need concerning lineage...I am wondering if anyone knows the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar, is it true that Chaitanya and Ramakrishna are from this lineage, if not, can someone please straighten me out? Thanks for the help. ShubalTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 It most certainly is not the least bit correct. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the line which today is Iskon, and the only Ramakishna Iskon concerns itself with is the is the 16 word, 32 letter "maha mantra" of hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare; hare krishna, hare krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare. In addidition to Iskon of the late Bakti Vedanta Prabhupad, there is a break away Vashnavic faction under some Narayan which Iskon refuses to recognise. Both of them are Chaitanya's spawn, but not Ramakrisna of Belor Math in Begal. He is an entirely different breed of cat. Vedanta Society will attest to Ramakrishna's lineage which is far apart from that of Chaitanya Mahaprabu. , "Mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > I don't believe that is correct concerning Sri Ramakrsna. I don't know about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Ramakrsna's guru in terms of sadhu lineage was Totapuri from Juna Akhara. I don't know anymore about the lineage of Totapuri. > - > shubal108@a... > > Friday, December 19, 2003 9:48 AM > help > > > I am in need concerning lineage...I am wondering if anyone knows the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar, is it true that Chaitanya and Ramakrishna are from this lineage, if not, can someone please straighten me out? > > Thanks for the help. > > Shubal > > > > > > > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Greetings Shubal, Following is the linage of sri Jnaneshwar who belongs to Nath cult. On the canvas of nath history much of their life histories have never come to the foreground. 1. Adinath 2. Matsyendranath 3. Goraknath 4. Gahininath/ Jnaninath 5. Nivritti nath (elder brother to Jnaneshwar) 6. Santh Jnaneshwar. Sri Jnaneshwar met Sri Namdev during pilgrimage, later was mentor to Jnaneshwar. His elder brother Nivritti was his guru and initiated him into Nath cult. Sri Ramakrishna is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. Lord Chaitanya has decended as incarnation of Krishna to propagate bhakti in form of Chanting and singing. They do not come under Nath cult. Regards, AnilEarth is the chosen place of mightiest souls;Earth is the heroic spirit's battlefield - Sri Aurobindo (Savitri) shubal108 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: I am in need concerning lineage...I am wondering if anyone knows the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar, is it true that Chaitanya and Ramakrishna are from this lineage, if not, can someone please straighten me out? Thanks for the help. ShubalTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: New Photos - easier uploading and sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Thank you for some clarification, but please let me be more specific regarding my question. I am no pundit, I just read books, and sing kirtan, so there is this little book published by Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan called The Saints of Maharashtra and it says Jnaneshwar and Namadeva initiated these holy kirtanas. To imagine what this must have sounded like with a score of realized souls singing God's names at the top of their voices, must have indeed caused one's hair to stand on end. Kirtan soon crossed the boundaries of Maharashtra and flodded the whole country where the memory of Saint Jnaneshwar and Saint Namadeva will be lovingly remembered for having created so simple and sweet a mode of self purification and worship: the Namasamkirtana!" Now this was the 13 century, Chaitanya was the 15th century, so my question is can anyone see the use of kirtan as a sadhana as being part of a lineage (e.g. Iyengar and hatha yoga and the lineage that flows from him), and, as a slight tangent to this question, are there any other branches of the chaitanya lineage than iskon. Or more broadly and directly, can anyone trace the history of kirtan as a practice for me, or refer me to sources to research this. Thank you. Love Shubal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 No one can say who Ramakrsna and Chaitanya were incarnations of. I think the point was the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar until Chaitanya and Ramakrsna, not the lineage before Sri Jnaneshwar, which you are correct about. Naths are Saivites by the way. Adinath is Lord Shiva, the First (Adi) Lord (Nath). - Anil Friday, December 19, 2003 10:25 PM Re: help Greetings Shubal, Following is the linage of sri Jnaneshwar who belongs to Nath cult. On the canvas of nath history much of their life histories have never come to the foreground. 1. Adinath 2. Matsyendranath 3. Goraknath 4. Gahininath/ Jnaninath 5. Nivritti nath (elder brother to Jnaneshwar) 6. Santh Jnaneshwar. Sri Jnaneshwar met Sri Namdev during pilgrimage, later was mentor to Jnaneshwar. His elder brother Nivritti was his guru and initiated him into Nath cult. Sri Ramakrishna is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. Lord Chaitanya has decended as incarnation of Krishna to propagate bhakti in form of Chanting and singing. They do not come under Nath cult. Regards, AnilEarth is the chosen place of mightiest souls;Earth is the heroic spirit's battlefield - Sri Aurobindo (Savitri) shubal108 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: I am in need concerning lineage...I am wondering if anyone knows the lineage of Sri Jnaneshwar, is it true that Chaitanya and Ramakrishna are from this lineage, if not, can someone please straighten me out? Thanks for the help. ShubalTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: New Photos - easier uploading and sharing To from this group, send an email to:To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Dear Rudran, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is considered as an incarnation of Lord Krishna to understand the love that Sri Radha had towards him. He is an incarnation of Lord Krishna in the mood of Sri Radha Rani. He propogated the sweet name of Lord Krishna through Kirtan and chanting. He lost outer consciousness and tears rolled from his eyes when he heard the name of Sri Krishna. The goal of all our practices is to reach that state. No where it is mentioned that Sri Ramakrishna is an incarnation of Lord Shiva. In his life biography it is mentioned that he is seen as Lord Shiva, Divine Mother Kali, Sri Krishna by his devotees who were spiritually illumined by him. He was not comfortable when anyone addressed him as God incarnate. He was happy as a pure child of Kali and viewed himself like that. As the saying goes, God incarnations behave as normal human beings to disguise themselves. But the pure and god seeking persons on earth recognize them and try to follow their teachings. Regarding God incarnations Sri Ramakrishna tells a beautiful parable. After the Mahabharatha battle, Arjuna addresses Sri Krishna as the embodiment of Parabrahma. Then Lord Krishna takes Arjuna to a tree and asks him to tell him what he sees. Arjuna tells that he sees blue berries hanging from the tree. Sri Krishna takes him closer to the tree and tells him that those "blue berries" are different God incarnations hanging from the tree called Parabrahman. So, the same divine appears in different forms for the sake of his devotees to guide them to him. Sri Ramakrishna taught religious tolerance in one of his famous saying: "As you stick firm to your faith and belief, allow others also equal opportunity to do so. Condemn none, redicule none. Accept all religions and cults as different paths to reach the same God." Even though we are trying to see the Divine Mother, it doesn't befit us, if we address the loving son of Divine Mother as "a different breed of Cat". Why can't we accept other saints and God incarnations and try to follow their teachings? I felt bad when Sri Ramakrishna was addressed like that. If it was meant in a positive spirit, please explain and forgive my ignorance. My pranams to all genuine devotees of Sri Maa. Prasad. , "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote: > It most certainly is not the least bit correct. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu > is the line which today is Iskon, and the only Ramakishna Iskon > concerns itself with is the is the 16 word, 32 letter "maha mantra" > of hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare; hare krishna, hare > krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare. In addidition to Iskon of the > late Bakti Vedanta Prabhupad, there is a break away Vashnavic faction > under some Narayan which Iskon refuses to recognise. Both of them are > Chaitanya's spawn, but not Ramakrisna of Belor Math in Begal. He is > an entirely different breed of cat. Vedanta Society will attest to > Ramakrishna's lineage which is far apart from that of Chaitanya > Mahaprabu. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 , shubal108@a... wrote: > Thank you for some clarification, but please let me be more specific > regarding my question. > > I am no pundit, I just read books, and sing kirtan, so there is this little > book published by Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan called The Saints of Maharashtra and > it says > Jnaneshwar and Namadeva initiated these holy kirtanas. To imagine what > this must have sounded like with a score of realized souls singing God's names > at the top of their voices, must have indeed caused one's hair to stand on end. > Kirtan soon crossed the boundaries of Maharashtra and flodded the whole > country where the memory of Saint Jnaneshwar and Saint Namadeva will be lovingly > remembered for having created so simple and sweet a mode of self purification > and worship: the Namasamkirtana!" > > Now this was the 13 century, Chaitanya was the 15th century, so my question > is can anyone see the use of kirtan as a sadhana as being part of a lineage > (e.g. Iyengar and hatha yoga and the lineage that flows from him), and, as a > slight tangent to this question, are there any other branches of the chaitanya > lineage than iskon. Or more broadly and directly, can anyone trace the history > of kirtan as a practice for me, or refer me to sources to research this. > > Thank you. > > Love > > Shubal You might do well to visit; http://www.purebhakti.com http://www.bvml.org Both of these are non-iskon but in the Chaitanya Prabu lineage. They are intense practictioners, but rather militant and narrow in focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was exactly that a Paramahamsa...AVATAR. He is regarded as the last incarnation of Visnu among many in the Vedanta Society and Ramakrisna Mission. >"pratapaprasad" <pratapaprasad > > > Re: help >Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:44:17 -0000 > >Dear Rudran, > Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is considered as an incarnation of >Lord Krishna to understand the love that Sri Radha had towards him. >He is an incarnation of Lord Krishna in the mood of Sri Radha Rani. >He propogated the sweet name of Lord Krishna through Kirtan and >chanting. He lost outer consciousness and tears rolled from his eyes >when he heard the name of Sri Krishna. The goal of all our practices >is to reach that state. > No where it is mentioned that Sri Ramakrishna is an >incarnation of Lord Shiva. In his life biography it is mentioned >that he is seen as Lord Shiva, Divine Mother Kali, Sri Krishna by his >devotees who were spiritually illumined by him. He was not >comfortable when anyone addressed him as God incarnate. He was happy >as a pure child of Kali and viewed himself like that. As the saying >goes, God incarnations behave as normal human beings to disguise >themselves. But the pure and god seeking persons on earth recognize >them and try to follow their teachings. > Regarding God incarnations Sri Ramakrishna tells a beautiful >parable. After the Mahabharatha battle, Arjuna addresses Sri Krishna >as the embodiment of Parabrahma. Then Lord Krishna takes Arjuna to a >tree and asks him to tell him what he sees. Arjuna tells that he >sees blue berries hanging from the tree. Sri Krishna takes him >closer to the tree and tells him that those "blue berries" are >different God incarnations hanging from the tree called Parabrahman. >So, the same divine appears in different forms for the sake of his >devotees to guide them to him. > Sri Ramakrishna taught religious tolerance in one of his >famous saying: "As you stick firm to your faith and belief, allow >others also equal opportunity to do so. Condemn none, redicule >none. Accept all religions and cults as different paths to reach the >same God." Even though we are trying to see the Divine Mother, it >doesn't befit us, if we address the loving son of Divine Mother as "a >different breed of Cat". Why can't we accept other saints and God >incarnations and try to follow their teachings? I felt bad when Sri >Ramakrishna was addressed like that. If it was meant in a positive >spirit, please explain and forgive my ignorance. > >My pranams to all genuine devotees of Sri Maa. >Prasad. > >, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote: > > It most certainly is not the least bit correct. Chaitanya >Mahaprabhu > > is the line which today is Iskon, and the only Ramakishna Iskon > > concerns itself with is the is the 16 word, 32 letter "maha mantra" > > of hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare; hare krishna, hare > > krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare. In addidition to Iskon of the > > late Bakti Vedanta Prabhupad, there is a break away Vashnavic >faction > > under some Narayan which Iskon refuses to recognise. Both of them >are > > Chaitanya's spawn, but not Ramakrisna of Belor Math in Begal. He is > > an entirely different breed of cat. Vedanta Society will attest to > > Ramakrishna's lineage which is far apart from that of Chaitanya > > Mahaprabu. > > > > > _______________ Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 All are avatars. Different devotees think different things. All is fine. - James Eyerman Monday, December 22, 2003 1:21 PM RE: Re: help Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was exactly that a Paramahamsa...AVATAR. He is regarded as the last incarnation of Visnu among many in the Vedanta Society and Ramakrisna Mission.>"pratapaprasad" <pratapaprasad >>>To: > Re: help>Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:44:17 -0000>>Dear Rudran,> Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is considered as an incarnation of>Lord Krishna to understand the love that Sri Radha had towards him.>He is an incarnation of Lord Krishna in the mood of Sri Radha Rani.>He propogated the sweet name of Lord Krishna through Kirtan and>chanting. He lost outer consciousness and tears rolled from his eyes>when he heard the name of Sri Krishna. The goal of all our practices>is to reach that state.> No where it is mentioned that Sri Ramakrishna is an>incarnation of Lord Shiva. In his life biography it is mentioned>that he is seen as Lord Shiva, Divine Mother Kali, Sri Krishna by his>devotees who were spiritually illumined by him. He was not>comfortable when anyone addressed him as God incarnate. He was happy>as a pure child of Kali and viewed himself like that. As the saying>goes, God incarnations behave as normal human beings to disguise>themselves. But the pure and god seeking persons on earth recognize>them and try to follow their teachings.> Regarding God incarnations Sri Ramakrishna tells a beautiful>parable. After the Mahabharatha battle, Arjuna addresses Sri Krishna>as the embodiment of Parabrahma. Then Lord Krishna takes Arjuna to a>tree and asks him to tell him what he sees. Arjuna tells that he>sees blue berries hanging from the tree. Sri Krishna takes him>closer to the tree and tells him that those "blue berries" are>different God incarnations hanging from the tree called Parabrahman.>So, the same divine appears in different forms for the sake of his>devotees to guide them to him.> Sri Ramakrishna taught religious tolerance in one of his>famous saying: "As you stick firm to your faith and belief, allow>others also equal opportunity to do so. Condemn none, redicule>none. Accept all religions and cults as different paths to reach the>same God." Even though we are trying to see the Divine Mother, it>doesn't befit us, if we address the loving son of Divine Mother as "a>different breed of Cat". Why can't we accept other saints and God>incarnations and try to follow their teachings? I felt bad when Sri>Ramakrishna was addressed like that. If it was meant in a positive>spirit, please explain and forgive my ignorance.>>My pranams to all genuine devotees of Sri Maa.>Prasad.>>, "rudran2" <stechiekov> wrote:> > It most certainly is not the least bit correct. Chaitanya>Mahaprabhu> > is the line which today is Iskon, and the only Ramakishna Iskon> > concerns itself with is the is the 16 word, 32 letter "maha mantra"> > of hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare; hare krishna, hare> > krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare. In addidition to Iskon of the> > late Bakti Vedanta Prabhupad, there is a break away Vashnavic>faction> > under some Narayan which Iskon refuses to recognise. Both of them>are> > Chaitanya's spawn, but not Ramakrisna of Belor Math in Begal. He is> > an entirely different breed of cat. Vedanta Society will attest to> > Ramakrishna's lineage which is far apart from that of Chaitanya> > Mahaprabu.> >>>>_______________Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armxTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Stop identifying yourself in the objects around you. That's my goal, anyway. Great question. Brian At 02:38 PM 12/29/2003, you wrote: Here is a question that is applicable to many of us,I believe. I love devotional topics very much and whenever I am free from material worries I think and talk of transcendental topics.But as soon as a problem, slightest of its kind arises, I simply become an ordinary ignorant and get disturbed. I think of Rama and joyfully sing his glories when material success comes, but when sorrow arises I simply become exhausted and cry to Rama to relieve me from material pain. How to maintain a perfect balance and unalloyed devotion during times of difficuty? / Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 In a message dated 12/29/2003 10:38:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org writes: Stop identifying yourself in the objects around you.That's my goal, anyway.Great question.Brian Or...Identify yourself on the objects around you Love Shubal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 With the right intention we could embrace this "to and fro" thing by thinking of it as developing the "remembering" muscle. By remembering over and over again, in all the varied situations in which we find ourselves, this 'muscle' gets stronger and stronger. Steady, consistent sadahna, encourages more remembering so that when we are out in the world, serving and loving, this peace shines thorugh. Wonderful to ponder, thank you! Blessings, Lynne - Brian McKee Monday, December 29, 2003 10:26 PM Re: help Stop identifying yourself in the objects around you.That's my goal, anyway.Great question.BrianAt 02:38 PM 12/29/2003, you wrote: Here is a question that is applicable to many of us,Ibelieve.I love devotional topics very much and whenever I amfree from material worries I think and talk oftranscendental topics.But as soon as a problem,slightest of its kind arises, I simply become anordinary ignorant and get disturbed. I think of Rama and joyfully sing his glories whenmaterial success comes, but when sorrow arises Isimply become exhausted and cry to Rama to relieve mefrom material pain. How to maintain a perfect balance and unalloyeddevotion during times of difficuty? Links / To from this group, send an email to: To visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Hi Shubal, I'm not sure I follow you. Unless what you are saying is to see goddess in all the objects around you, I thought of that after I posted the first email. Its another way to surrender and to accept reality, instead of not identifying with the objects around us to dis-attach, we identify them as part of goddess and that frees us from the bonds of attachment. Is that what you meant? Brian shubal108 (AT) aol (DOT) com Dec 30, 2003 9:44 AM Re: help In a message dated 12/29/2003 10:38:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org writes: Stop identifying yourself in the objects around you.That's my goal, anyway.Great question.Brian Or...Identify yourself on the objects around you Love ShubalTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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