Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast in his trial by fire. ====================================================================== Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he had collected ,and the Master agreed. When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students. Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them completely wrong. Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility he had been given. Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt, he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told them , "Do what you have to do". The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was his exclusive teacher. Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion from him. ====================================================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of architect Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and taught the temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my opinion, they were interested in power over others. They used psychic methods and manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only 16 and was left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was hysterical and in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was afraid of what death would bring him. "Latha Nanda" <lathananda > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 Trial by Fire I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast in his trial by fire. ====================================================================== Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he had collected ,and the Master agreed. When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students. Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them completely wrong. Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility he had been given. Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt, he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told them , "Do what you have to do". The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was his exclusive teacher. Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion from him. ====================================================================== Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 dear ardis, most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set an inner example. lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and started to correct himself. peace -- peace with awareness, steve c. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of architect > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and taught the > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my opinion, > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic methods and > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only 16 and was > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was hysterical and > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was afraid of > what death would bring him. > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > Trial by Fire > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast > in his trial by fire. > > ===================================================================== = > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students. > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > completely wrong. > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility > he had been given. > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt, > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > them , "Do what you have to do". > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > his exclusive teacher. > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > from him. > > ===================================================================== = > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Thanks for your note, Steve. I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. Ardis "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 Re: Trial by Fire dear ardis, most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set an inner example. lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and started to correct himself. peace -- peace with awareness, steve c. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of architect > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and taught the > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my opinion, > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic methods and > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only 16 and was > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was hysterical and > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was afraid of > what death would bring him. > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > Trial by Fire > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast > in his trial by fire. > > ===================================================================== = > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students. > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > completely wrong. > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility > he had been given. > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt, > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > them , "Do what you have to do". > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > his exclusive teacher. > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > from him. > > ===================================================================== = > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hi Group member, I would like to know if it is common for a Guru to give the student puja instructions & mantras/diksha without first giving you a preparatory foundation? There are other things which I care not to mention. I just find this strange. Any suggestion? Luv Qiya , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > Ardis > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > dear ardis, > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > an inner example. > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > started to correct himself. > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > steve c. > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > architect > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > taught the > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > opinion, > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > methods and > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > 16 and was > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > hysterical and > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > afraid of > > what death would bring him. > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > The > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > steadfast > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > he > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > students. > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > completely wrong. > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > were > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > called > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > responsibility > > he had been given. > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > Anyone > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > his > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > didnt, > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > would > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > does > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > into > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > in > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > have > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > anything > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > walked > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > from him. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . Links > > / > > > > <?subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear Ardis, Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially your response, very interesting. These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem so true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation, the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as I say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and She directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity means and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not about expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship about reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing religions and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others to do the same. Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form of anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So low was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I have left the group. Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go through what we went through before reaching this point. Jai Shree Maa ki jai! Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai! Eternal Blessings! Kali , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > Ardis > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > dear ardis, > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > an inner example. > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > started to correct himself. > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > steve c. > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > architect > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > taught the > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > opinion, > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > methods and > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > 16 and was > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > hysterical and > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > afraid of > > what death would bring him. > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > The > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > steadfast > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > he > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > students. > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > completely wrong. > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > were > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > called > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > responsibility > > he had been given. > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > Anyone > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > his > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > didnt, > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > would > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > does > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > into > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > in > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > have > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > anything > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > walked > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > from him. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . Links > > / > > > > <?subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 ardis it is very good for me to hear your story it pulls together many things, esp. as it was adi da that i was referring to in my post. btw i am averse to slander, as it is taught in the gita, i only speak out in this way to clarify the differences between someone like maa and the others. all gurus are not the same, although they all [as are we] are emanations of god, so i respect everyone, but that does not mean i believe their words! as for the unity of worship i am wholly for maa's and ramakrishna's wonderful way of pulling together the purpose of religion -- god -- and not fanning the flames of differences. if you have the time and inclination i am interested in hearing anything more on how you found shree maa and swami in your back yard [!] ardis, you expressed perfectly what is so special about shree maa and swami. thank you for sharing some of your story. steve c. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > Ardis > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > dear ardis, > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > an inner example. > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > started to correct himself. > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > steve c. > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > architect > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > taught the > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > opinion, > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > methods and > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > 16 and was > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > hysterical and > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > afraid of > > what death would bring him. > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > The > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > steadfast > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > he > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > students. > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > completely wrong. > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > were > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > called > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > responsibility > > he had been given. > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > Anyone > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > his > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > didnt, > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > would > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > does > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > into > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > in > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > have > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > anything > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > walked > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > from him. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Kali, this is warming my heart to see i am not the only one. i wrote maa asking her to please not hurt me i have been wounded so. i realize karma is a complex thing, it is never so simple as "it was all his fault." and yet we need this true heart, this true kindess, this is a bridge that makes me fly over troubles, without this divine intervention i am struggling against every wave! peace and thank you for sharing this, steve c. , "kaliananda_saraswati" <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Ardis, > > Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially > your response, very interesting. > > These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem so > true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation, > the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as I > say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is > the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and She > directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see > for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity means > and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not about > expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship about > reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing religions > and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others to > do the same. > > Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form of > anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So low > was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions > though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that > person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I have > left the group. > > Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give > EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I > can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful > Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure > thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go > through what we went through before reaching this point. > > Jai Shree Maa ki jai! > Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai! > Eternal Blessings! > > Kali > > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have > been with > > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But > when I look > > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the > valuable > > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I > just > > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high > school. > > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling > to > > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person > who told me > > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out > on his > > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, > but he was > > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and > Swamiji, > > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and > humility > > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they > want to do > > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the > teachings > > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing > in > > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their > disciple. They > > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to > move on. > > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" > you. > > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly > rare, in > > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their > living > > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > > > Ardis > > > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > > > > dear ardis, > > > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > > an inner example. > > > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > > started to correct himself. > > > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > > > steve c. > > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > > wrote: > > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > > architect > > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > > taught the > > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > > opinion, > > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > > methods and > > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > > 16 and was > > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > > hysterical and > > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > > afraid of > > > what death would bring him. > > > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > > The > > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by > Lee > > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > > steadfast > > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > = > > > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America > where > > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic > about > > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > > he > > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > > students. > > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > > completely wrong. > > > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely > strong > > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > > were > > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > > called > > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > > responsibility > > > he had been given. > > > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > > Anyone > > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > > his > > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing > that > > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed > statements > > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > > didnt, > > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people > who > > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > > would > > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > > does > > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > > into > > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > > in > > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > > have > > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > > anything > > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff > was > > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > > walked > > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only > time > > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > > from him. > > > > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > subject=Un> > > > > > > Terms of > Service > > > <> . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . 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Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Jai Jai Kaliananda Ki Jai How wonderful to find yourself a part of Shree Maa and Swamiji's family. I know I felt that I had found my spiritual home the first time I entered the Devi Mandir in Martinez. I knew my search was over. The past is gone and the future doesn't exist. All there is is the eternal now as we rest in the arms or at the feet of the Divine Mother. To experience true worship is the greatest gift a teacher can bestow on us. Jai Shree Maa Jai Swamiji Jai Chandi Ma Ki Jai "kaliananda_saraswati" <kaliananda_saraswati > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:25:13 -0000 Re: Trial by Fire Dear Ardis, Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially your response, very interesting. These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem so true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation, the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as I say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and She directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity means and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not about expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship about reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing religions and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others to do the same. Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form of anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So low was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I have left the group. Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go through what we went through before reaching this point. Jai Shree Maa ki jai! Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai! Eternal Blessings! Kali , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > Ardis > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > dear ardis, > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > an inner example. > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > started to correct himself. > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > steve c. > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > architect > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > taught the > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > opinion, > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > methods and > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > 16 and was > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > hysterical and > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > afraid of > > what death would bring him. > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > The > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > steadfast > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > he > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > students. > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > completely wrong. > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > were > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > called > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > responsibility > > he had been given. > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > Anyone > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > his > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > didnt, > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > would > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > does > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > into > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > in > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > have > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > anything > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > walked > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > from him. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <?subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Steve, I was a Buddhist for over 30 years... I sat from 1963-1971 with the Japanese Zen Master, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, many years meditating on my own, several years with Tibetan Buddhist masters. I went to India, Nepal and Sikkim in 1962, traveling with a Tibetan lama and staying in Tibetan Buddhist monasteries. My experiences with my lama in India convinced me that I did not want to associate with him any longer. I had begun reading Adi Da's writings before I went to India and took the DAI course when I returned. I lived in San Rafael so I started hanging out at the Danda and went on a couple of retreats to the Sanctuary. Fortunately for me, I was rejected when I applied to become a student-novice. (I believe Maa was watching out for me) In February of 1993, a former disciple of Adi Da told me about Shree Maa. It is funny, but I was quite content being a Buddhist and I was not looking for a teacher. But this person was quite insistent even though he only met her once and told me that I should at least take her darshan since her temple was only a half hour from my home (that's what I mean about being in my back yard.) My visit to the Devi Mandir in Martinez was life-changing. When I sat down in front of the murti of MahaLakshmi, I knew that I was "home"; that my search was over. And that was before I met Shree Maa and Swamiji!!! When they entered the room, I felt like I was in a parallel universe. Shree Maa and Swamijji and all the life size murtis were all glistening and radiating pure light. Shree Maa told me that this was my temple. Swamiji told me that I was part of the family. Parvati gave me the warmest welcome... like I had come home after a long trip. When I experienced Maa and Swamiji at the fire, I felt like I was experiencing true worship for the first time in my life. I had never seen such total absorption. I didn't want to leave. I would have been happy to curl up in a corner and stay there forever. I felt the same way in the Devi Mandir in Napa. But, as to back yards, I did find my Shiva Lingam in my back yard. He is a beautiful naturally shaped lingam. He sits in a beautiful yoni pot that came to me as a gift. So when I make offerings to Him, they slide down into the yoni and then I give them a bath after worship. Life has been so good to me. I feel very blessed. And especially blessed for having been drawn to Maa and Swamiji and the loving Devi Mandir family. Love to you, Ardis "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:50:26 -0000 Re: Trial by Fire ardis it is very good for me to hear your story it pulls together many things, esp. as it was adi da that i was referring to in my post. btw i am averse to slander, as it is taught in the gita, i only speak out in this way to clarify the differences between someone like maa and the others. all gurus are not the same, although they all [as are we] are emanations of god, so i respect everyone, but that does not mean i believe their words! as for the unity of worship i am wholly for maa's and ramakrishna's wonderful way of pulling together the purpose of religion -- god -- and not fanning the flames of differences. if you have the time and inclination i am interested in hearing anything more on how you found shree maa and swami in your back yard [!] ardis, you expressed perfectly what is so special about shree maa and swami. thank you for sharing some of your story. steve c. , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thanks for your note, Steve. > > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have been with > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But when I look > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the valuable > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I just > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high school. > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but he was > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise! > > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and Swamiji, > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and humility > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they want to do > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the teachings > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing in > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their disciple. They > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to move on. > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price. > > Ardis > > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> > > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000 > > Re: Trial by Fire > > > dear ardis, > > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set > an inner example. > > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life, > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and > started to correct himself. > > peace -- peace with awareness, > > steve c. > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of > architect > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and > taught the > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my > opinion, > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic > methods and > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only > 16 and was > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was > hysterical and > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was > afraid of > > what death would bring him. > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000 > > > > Trial by Fire > > > > > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. > The > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained > steadfast > > in his trial by fire. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master. > > > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students > he > > had collected ,and the Master agreed. > > > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's > students. > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them > > completely wrong. > > > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that > were > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he > called > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the > responsibility > > he had been given. > > > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher - > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. > Anyone > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become > his > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing. > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who > didnt, > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned. > > > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they > would > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What > does > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?" > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told > > them , "Do what you have to do". > > > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked > into > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly > in > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to > have > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had > anything > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was > > his exclusive teacher. > > > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression > walked > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion > > from him. > > > > > ===================================================================== > = > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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