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I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The

lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee

Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast

in his trial by fire.

 

======================================================================

 

Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

 

One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where

he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about

him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he

had collected ,and the Master agreed.

 

When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students.

Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

completely wrong.

 

Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong

with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were

not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called

Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility

he had been given.

 

Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone

who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his

student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that

they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements

to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt,

he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

 

The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who

recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would

sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does

this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

them , "Do what you have to do".

 

The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into

Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in

front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have

nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything

to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was

his exclusive teacher.

 

Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked

toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time

that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

from him.

 

======================================================================

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My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

architect Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff

and taught the temple dances that he had collected from around the

world. In my opinion, they were interested in power over others.

They used psychic methods and manipulated their followers' lives. I

was lucky that I was only 16 and was left alone. It is said that on

his death bed Gurdjieff was hysterical and in great fear because of

things he had done as a teacher. He was afraid of what death would

bring him.

"Latha Nanda" <lathananda >

Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

Trial by Fire

I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus. The

lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee

Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained steadfast

in his trial by fire.

======================================================================

Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where

he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about

him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students he

had collected ,and the Master agreed.

When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's students.

Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

completely wrong.

Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong

with his own students and often thrust them into situations that were

not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he called

Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the responsibility

he had been given.

Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt. Anyone

who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become his

student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that

they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements

to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who didnt,

he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who

recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they would

sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What does

this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

them , "Do what you have to do".

The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked into

Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly in

front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to have

nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had anything

to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was

his exclusive teacher.

Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression walked

toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time

that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

from him.

======================================================================

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dear ardis,

 

most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set

an inner example.

 

lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

started to correct himself.

 

peace -- peace with awareness,

 

steve c.

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

architect

> Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

taught the

> temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

opinion,

> they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

methods and

> manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

16 and was

> left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

hysterical and

> in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

afraid of

> what death would bring him.

>

> "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

>

> Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

>

> Trial by Fire

>

>

> I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

The

> lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee

> Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

steadfast

> in his trial by fire.

>

>

=====================================================================

=

>

> Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

>

> One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where

> he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about

> him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

he

> had collected ,and the Master agreed.

>

> When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

students.

> Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> completely wrong.

>

> Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong

> with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

were

> not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

> emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

called

> Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

responsibility

> he had been given.

>

> Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

Anyone

> who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

his

> student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that

> they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

> him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements

> to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

didnt,

> he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

>

> The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who

> recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

would

> sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

> teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

does

> this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> them , "Do what you have to do".

>

> The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

into

> Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly

in

> front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

have

> nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

anything

> to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was

> his exclusive teacher.

>

> Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

walked

> toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time

> that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

> from him.

>

>

=====================================================================

=

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

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Share on other sites

Thanks for your note, Steve.

I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers.

But when I look back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my

teachers and the valuable lessons that they taught me. I was never

harmed by any of them. I just knew when to "graduate" from

elementary school and move on to high school. Finding Shree Maa and

Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling to India, Nepal and

Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person who told me about

them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out on his

own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him, but

he was the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and

Swamiji, the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity

and humility and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers.

All they want to do is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma,

to perpetuate the teachings by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE,

LOVE. They ask for nothing in return. They don't ask anyone to

"follow" them or be their disciple. They don't hold on to you if you

come to a place when you are ready to move on. I don't know if I am

explaining this clearly, but they don't "own" you. They love you

always, but their love frees you. This is truly rare, in personal

relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their living

example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

Ardis

"bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley >

Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

Re: Trial by Fire

dear ardis,

most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set

an inner example.

lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

started to correct himself.

peace -- peace with awareness,

steve c.

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

architect

> Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

taught the

> temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

opinion,

> they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

methods and

> manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

16 and was

> left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

hysterical and

> in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

afraid of

> what death would bring him.

>

> "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

>

> Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

>

> Trial by Fire

>

>

> I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

The

> lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by Lee

> Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

steadfast

> in his trial by fire.

>

>

=====================================================================

=

>

> Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

>

> One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America where

> he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic about

> him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

he

> had collected ,and the Master agreed.

>

> When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

students.

> Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> completely wrong.

>

> Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely strong

> with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

were

> not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

> emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

called

> Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

responsibility

> he had been given.

>

> Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

Anyone

> who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

his

> student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing that

> they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

> him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed statements

> to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

didnt,

> he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

>

> The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people who

> recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

would

> sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

> teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

does

> this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> them , "Do what you have to do".

>

> The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

into

> Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly

in

> front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

have

> nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

anything

> to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff was

> his exclusive teacher.

>

> Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

walked

> toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only time

> that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

> from him.

>

>

=====================================================================

=

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

/

<?subject=Un>

Terms of Service

<> .

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Share on other sites

Hi Group member,

 

I would like to know if it is common for a Guru to give the student

puja instructions & mantras/diksha without first giving you a

preparatory foundation?

 

There are other things which I care not to mention. I just find

this strange. Any suggestion?

 

Luv

Qiya

 

 

 

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Steve.

>

> I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with

> teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

when I look

> back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the

valuable

> lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I

just

> knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high

school.

> Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling

to

> India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

who told me

> about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out

on his

> own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him,

but he was

> the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

>

> For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and

Swamiji,

> the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

humility

> and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

want to do

> is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the

teachings

> by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing

in

> return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

disciple. They

> don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to

move on.

> I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own"

you.

> They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

rare, in

> personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

living

> example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

>

> Ardis

>

> "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

>

> Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

>

> Re: Trial by Fire

>

>

> dear ardis,

>

> most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set

> an inner example.

>

> lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

> as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> started to correct himself.

>

> peace -- peace with awareness,

>

> steve c.

> , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

> architect

> > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> taught the

> > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

> opinion,

> > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> methods and

> > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

> 16 and was

> > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> hysterical and

> > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

> afraid of

> > what death would bring him.

> >

> > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> >

> > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> >

> > Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

> The

> > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by

Lee

> > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> steadfast

> > in his trial by fire.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> >

> > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

where

> > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

about

> > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

> he

> > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> >

> > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> students.

> > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > completely wrong.

> >

> > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

strong

> > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

> were

> > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

> > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> called

> > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> responsibility

> > he had been given.

> >

> > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> Anyone

> > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

> his

> > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

that

> > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

> > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

statements

> > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> didnt,

> > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> >

> > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people

who

> > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> would

> > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

> > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> does

> > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > them , "Do what you have to do".

> >

> > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> into

> > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly

> in

> > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

> have

> > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> anything

> > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff

was

> > his exclusive teacher.

> >

> > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> walked

> > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

time

> > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

> > from him.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Ardis,

 

Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially

your response, very interesting.

 

These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem so

true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation,

the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as I

say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is

the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and She

directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see

for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity means

and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not about

expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship about

reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing religions

and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others to

do the same.

 

Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form of

anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So low

was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions

though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that

person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I have

left the group.

 

Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give

EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I

can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful

Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure

thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go

through what we went through before reaching this point.

 

Jai Shree Maa ki jai!

Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai!

Eternal Blessings!

 

Kali

 

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Steve.

>

> I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with

> teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

when I look

> back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the

valuable

> lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I

just

> knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high

school.

> Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling

to

> India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

who told me

> about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out

on his

> own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him,

but he was

> the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

>

> For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and

Swamiji,

> the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

humility

> and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

want to do

> is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the

teachings

> by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing

in

> return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

disciple. They

> don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to

move on.

> I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own"

you.

> They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

rare, in

> personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

living

> example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

>

> Ardis

>

> "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

>

> Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

>

> Re: Trial by Fire

>

>

> dear ardis,

>

> most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set

> an inner example.

>

> lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

> as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> started to correct himself.

>

> peace -- peace with awareness,

>

> steve c.

> , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

> architect

> > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> taught the

> > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

> opinion,

> > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> methods and

> > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

> 16 and was

> > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> hysterical and

> > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

> afraid of

> > what death would bring him.

> >

> > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> >

> > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> >

> > Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

> The

> > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by

Lee

> > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> steadfast

> > in his trial by fire.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> >

> > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

where

> > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

about

> > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

> he

> > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> >

> > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> students.

> > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > completely wrong.

> >

> > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

strong

> > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

> were

> > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

> > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> called

> > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> responsibility

> > he had been given.

> >

> > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> Anyone

> > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

> his

> > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

that

> > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

> > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

statements

> > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> didnt,

> > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> >

> > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people

who

> > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> would

> > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

> > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> does

> > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > them , "Do what you have to do".

> >

> > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> into

> > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly

> in

> > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

> have

> > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> anything

> > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff

was

> > his exclusive teacher.

> >

> > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> walked

> > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

time

> > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

> > from him.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ardis

 

it is very good for me to hear your story it pulls together many

things, esp. as it was adi da that i was referring to in my post.

 

btw i am averse to slander, as it is taught in the gita, i only

speak out in this way to clarify the differences between someone

like maa and the others. all gurus are not the same, although they

all [as are we] are emanations of god, so i respect everyone, but

that does not mean i believe their words!

 

as for the unity of worship i am wholly for maa's and ramakrishna's

wonderful way of pulling together the purpose of religion -- god --

and not fanning the flames of differences.

 

if you have the time and inclination i am interested in hearing

anything more on how you found shree maa and swami in your back yard

[!]

 

ardis, you expressed perfectly what is so special about shree maa

and swami. thank you for sharing some of your story.

 

steve c.

 

 

 

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Steve.

>

> I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with

> teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

when I look

> back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and

the valuable

> lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them.

I just

> knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high

school.

> Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after

traveling to

> India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

who told me

> about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out

on his

> own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him,

but he was

> the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

>

> For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa

and Swamiji,

> the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

humility

> and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

want to do

> is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the

teachings

> by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for

nothing in

> return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

disciple. They

> don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to

move on.

> I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own"

you.

> They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

rare, in

> personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

living

> example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

>

> Ardis

>

> "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

>

> Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

>

> Re: Trial by Fire

>

>

> dear ardis,

>

> most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and

set

> an inner example.

>

> lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

> as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> started to correct himself.

>

> peace -- peace with awareness,

>

> steve c.

> , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

> architect

> > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> taught the

> > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

> opinion,

> > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> methods and

> > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

> 16 and was

> > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> hysterical and

> > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

> afraid of

> > what death would bring him.

> >

> > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> >

> > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> >

> > Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

> The

> > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by

Lee

> > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> steadfast

> > in his trial by fire.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> >

> > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

where

> > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

about

> > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

> he

> > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> >

> > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> students.

> > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > completely wrong.

> >

> > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

strong

> > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

> were

> > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies

and

> > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> called

> > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> responsibility

> > he had been given.

> >

> > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> Anyone

> > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

> his

> > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

that

> > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not

see

> > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

statements

> > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> didnt,

> > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> >

> > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people

who

> > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> would

> > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are

the

> > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> does

> > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > them , "Do what you have to do".

> >

> > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> into

> > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood

directly

> in

> > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

> have

> > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> anything

> > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff

was

> > his exclusive teacher.

> >

> > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> walked

> > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

time

> > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of

emotion

> > from him.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kali, this is warming my heart to see i am not the only one. i wrote

maa asking her to please not hurt me i have been wounded so. i

realize karma is a complex thing, it is never so simple as "it was

all his fault." and yet we need this true heart, this true kindess,

this is a bridge that makes me fly over troubles, without this

divine intervention i am struggling against every wave!

 

peace and thank you for sharing this,

 

steve c.

 

, "kaliananda_saraswati"

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:

> Dear Ardis,

>

> Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially

> your response, very interesting.

>

> These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem

so

> true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation,

> the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as

I

> say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is

> the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and

She

> directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see

> for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity

means

> and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not

about

> expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship

about

> reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing

religions

> and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others

to

> do the same.

>

> Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form

of

> anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So

low

> was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions

> though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that

> person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I

have

> left the group.

>

> Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give

> EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I

> can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful

> Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure

> thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go

> through what we went through before reaching this point.

>

> Jai Shree Maa ki jai!

> Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai!

> Eternal Blessings!

>

> Kali

>

> , Ardis Jackson

<anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > Thanks for your note, Steve.

> >

> > I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I

have

> been with

> > teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

> when I look

> > back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and

the

> valuable

> > lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of

them. I

> just

> > knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to

high

> school.

> > Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after

traveling

> to

> > India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

> who told me

> > about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone

out

> on his

> > own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew

him,

> but he was

> > the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

> >

> > For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa

and

> Swamiji,

> > the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

> humility

> > and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

> want to do

> > is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate

the

> teachings

> > by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for

nothing

> in

> > return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

> disciple. They

> > don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready

to

> move on.

> > I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they

don't "own"

> you.

> > They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

> rare, in

> > personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

> living

> > example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

> >

> > Ardis

> >

> > "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

> >

> > Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

> >

> > Re: Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > dear ardis,

> >

> > most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> > do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> > remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and

set

> > an inner example.

> >

> > lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in

life,

> > as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> > started to correct himself.

> >

> > peace -- peace with awareness,

> >

> > steve c.

> > , Ardis Jackson

<anandamama@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife

of

> > architect

> > > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> > taught the

> > > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In

my

> > opinion,

> > > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> > methods and

> > > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was

only

> > 16 and was

> > > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> > hysterical and

> > > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He

was

> > afraid of

> > > what death would bring him.

> > >

> > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> > >

> > > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> > >

> > > Trial by Fire

> > >

> > >

> > > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their

Gurus.

> > The

> > > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation"

by

> Lee

> > > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> > steadfast

> > > in his trial by fire.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> > =

> > >

> > > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> > >

> > > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

> where

> > > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic

and

> > > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

> about

> > > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So ,

Orage

> > > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the

students

> > he

> > > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> > >

> > > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> > students.

> > > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak,

saying

> > > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > > completely wrong.

> > >

> > > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

> strong

> > > with his own students and often thrust them into situations

that

> > were

> > > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies

and

> > > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> > called

> > > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> > responsibility

> > > he had been given.

> > >

> > > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the

teacher -

> > > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> > Anyone

> > > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to

become

> > his

> > > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

> that

> > > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not

see

> > > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written.

Nothing.

> > > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

> statements

> > > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> > didnt,

> > > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> > >

> > > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the

people

> who

> > > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> > would

> > > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are

the

> > > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> > does

> > > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still

teach ?"

> > > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > > them , "Do what you have to do".

> > >

> > > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> > into

> > > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood

directly

> > in

> > > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing

to

> > have

> > > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> > anything

> > > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that

Gurdjieff

> was

> > > his exclusive teacher.

> > >

> > > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> > walked

> > > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

> time

> > > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of

emotion

> > > from him.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> > =

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsor

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

> > > /

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <?

> > subject=Un>

> > >

> > > Terms of

> Service

> > > <> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jai Jai Kaliananda Ki Jai

How wonderful to find yourself a part of Shree Maa and Swamiji's

family. I know I felt that I had found my spiritual home the first

time I entered the Devi Mandir in Martinez. I knew my search was

over. The past is gone and the future doesn't exist. All there is

is the eternal now as we rest in the arms or at the feet of the

Divine Mother.

To experience true worship is the greatest gift a teacher can bestow on us.

Jai Shree Maa Jai Swamiji Jai Chandi Ma Ki Jai

"kaliananda_saraswati" <kaliananda_saraswati >

Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:25:13 -0000

Re: Trial by Fire

Dear Ardis,

Though not addressed to me, I have found this topic and especially

your response, very interesting.

These "teachers" seem to pop up everywhere and at first they seem so

true and sincere. I once had such a teacher, the dance situation,

the power over others - his method without saying it is like do as I

say and do not question my actions - I know best. But Mother is

the One who knows best, She knows the heart of Her children and She

directed this soul to Shee Maa and Swamiji where I was able to see

for the first time in my life, what Humility, Love and Purity means

and the true meaning of worship. I realized that love was not about

expensive gifts - no, love cannot be bought, neither is worship about

reading up on different religions and sitting and critizing religions

and students while praising the ones you love and expecting others to

do the same.

Fortunate for you, you were unharmed, my harming was in the form of

anger from suppressed thoughts/actions and self-deprecation. So low

was that esteem that I would force myself to attend the sessions

though frustrated and tormented because I felt I owed it to that

person. Thanks to Mother, that feeling no longer prevails and I have

left the group.

Your sentiments of Maa and Swamiji are endorsed by me, they give

EVERYTHING and ask nothing in return. They are Priceless Gems. I

can truly say that I have found "my home" with these two Beautiful

Beings and I pray that through pray and sincere effort our pure

thoughts and actions will lessen the pain of those who must go

through what we went through before reaching this point.

Jai Shree Maa ki jai!

Jai Swami Satyananda ki jai!

Eternal Blessings!

Kali

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Steve.

>

> I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with

> teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

when I look

> back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and the

valuable

> lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them. I

just

> knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high

school.

> Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after traveling

to

> India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

who told me

> about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out

on his

> own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him,

but he was

> the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

>

> For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa and

Swamiji,

> the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

humility

> and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

want to do

> is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the

teachings

> by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for nothing

in

> return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

disciple. They

> don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to

move on.

> I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own"

you.

> They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

rare, in

> personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

living

> example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

>

> Ardis

>

> "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

>

> Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

>

> Re: Trial by Fire

>

>

> dear ardis,

>

> most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and set

> an inner example.

>

> lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

> as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> started to correct himself.

>

> peace -- peace with awareness,

>

> steve c.

> , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

> architect

> > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> taught the

> > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

> opinion,

> > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> methods and

> > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

> 16 and was

> > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> hysterical and

> > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

> afraid of

> > what death would bring him.

> >

> > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> >

> > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> >

> > Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

> The

> > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by

Lee

> > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> steadfast

> > in his trial by fire.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> >

> > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

where

> > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

about

> > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

> he

> > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> >

> > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> students.

> > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > completely wrong.

> >

> > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

strong

> > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

> were

> > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies and

> > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> called

> > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> responsibility

> > he had been given.

> >

> > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> Anyone

> > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

> his

> > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

that

> > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not see

> > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

statements

> > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> didnt,

> > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> >

> > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people

who

> > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> would

> > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are the

> > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> does

> > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > them , "Do what you have to do".

> >

> > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> into

> > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood directly

> in

> > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

> have

> > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> anything

> > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff

was

> > his exclusive teacher.

> >

> > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> walked

> > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

time

> > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of emotion

> > from him.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

/

<?subject=Un>

Terms of Service

<> .

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Steve,

I was a Buddhist for over 30 years... I sat from 1963-1971 with the

Japanese Zen Master, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, many years meditating on

my own, several years with Tibetan Buddhist masters. I went to

India, Nepal and Sikkim in 1962, traveling with a Tibetan lama and

staying in Tibetan Buddhist monasteries. My experiences with my lama

in India convinced me that I did not want to associate with him any

longer.

I had begun reading Adi Da's writings before I went to India and took

the DAI course when I returned. I lived in San Rafael so I started

hanging out at the Danda and went on a couple of retreats to the

Sanctuary. Fortunately for me, I was rejected when I applied to

become a student-novice. (I believe Maa was watching out for me) In

February of 1993, a former disciple of Adi Da told me about Shree Maa.

It is funny, but I was quite content being a Buddhist and I was not

looking for a teacher. But this person was quite insistent even

though he only met her once and told me that I should at least take

her darshan since her temple was only a half hour from my home

(that's what I mean about being in my back yard.)

My visit to the Devi Mandir in Martinez was life-changing. When I sat

down in front of the murti of MahaLakshmi, I knew that I was "home";

that my search was over. And that was before I met Shree Maa and

Swamiji!!! When they entered the room, I felt like I was in a

parallel universe. Shree Maa and Swamijji and all the life size

murtis were all glistening and radiating pure light. Shree Maa told

me that this was my temple. Swamiji told me that I was part of the

family. Parvati gave me the warmest welcome... like I had come home

after a long trip. When I experienced Maa and Swamiji at the fire, I

felt like I was experiencing true worship for the first time in my

life. I had never seen such total absorption. I didn't want to

leave. I would have been happy to curl up in a corner and stay there

forever. I felt the same way in the Devi Mandir in Napa.

But, as to back yards, I did find my Shiva Lingam in my back yard. He

is a beautiful naturally shaped lingam. He sits in a beautiful yoni

pot that came to me as a gift. So when I make offerings to Him, they

slide down into the yoni and then I give them a bath after worship.

Life has been so good to me. I feel very blessed. And especially

blessed for having been drawn to Maa and Swamiji and the loving Devi

Mandir family.

Love to you,

Ardis

"bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley >

Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:50:26 -0000

Re: Trial by Fire

ardis

it is very good for me to hear your story it pulls together many

things, esp. as it was adi da that i was referring to in my post.

btw i am averse to slander, as it is taught in the gita, i only

speak out in this way to clarify the differences between someone

like maa and the others. all gurus are not the same, although they

all [as are we] are emanations of god, so i respect everyone, but

that does not mean i believe their words!

as for the unity of worship i am wholly for maa's and ramakrishna's

wonderful way of pulling together the purpose of religion -- god --

and not fanning the flames of differences.

if you have the time and inclination i am interested in hearing

anything more on how you found shree maa and swami in your back yard

[!]

ardis, you expressed perfectly what is so special about shree maa

and swami. thank you for sharing some of your story.

steve c.

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Steve.

>

> I have been very blessed and protected throughout my life. I have

been with

> teachers who I later on found out had abused their powers. But

when I look

> back on my life (I am 63) I see the goodness of my teachers and

the valuable

> lessons that they taught me. I was never harmed by any of them.

I just

> knew when to "graduate" from elementary school and move on to high

school.

> Finding Shree Maa and Swamiji in my backyard a year after

traveling to

> India, Nepal and Sikkim on pilgrimage was a miracle. The person

who told me

> about them had been a long time devotee of Adi Da who had gone out

on his

> own and become a rather abusive guru himself. I barely knew him,

but he was

> the link to my true teachers. What a surprise!

>

> For those of you who have not spent time in the presence of Maa

and Swamiji,

> the highest respect I have for them is based on their purity and

humility

> and that neither of them has ever grasped for powers. All they

want to do

> is pass on their teachings, the Sanatana Dharma, to perpetuate the

teachings

> by their own example and to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. They ask for

nothing in

> return. They don't ask anyone to "follow" them or be their

disciple. They

> don't hold on to you if you come to a place when you are ready to

move on.

> I don't know if I am explaining this clearly, but they don't "own"

you.

> They love you always, but their love frees you. This is truly

rare, in

> personal relationships and in guru/devotee relationships. Their

living

> example of devotion and pure love is beyond price.

>

> Ardis

>

> "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley>

>

> Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:40:29 -0000

>

> Re: Trial by Fire

>

>

> dear ardis,

>

> most younger people are not aware of the wrong that bad gurus can

> do, fortunately for them. it is up to those who have suffered to

> remain alert, but most of all, to resist hypocrisy ourselves and

set

> an inner example.

>

> lee l., btw, was influenced by a bad guru, and only later in life,

> as far as i know, got himself a guru in india, became quiet, and

> started to correct himself.

>

> peace -- peace with awareness,

>

> steve c.

> , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

> wrote:

> > My first "spiritual teacher" was Olgivanna Lloyd Wright (wife of

> architect

> > Frank Lloyd Wright). She was a direct disciple of Gurdjieff and

> taught the

> > temple dances that he had collected from around the world. In my

> opinion,

> > they were interested in power over others. They used psychic

> methods and

> > manipulated their followers' lives. I was lucky that I was only

> 16 and was

> > left alone. It is said that on his death bed Gurdjieff was

> hysterical and

> > in great fear because of things he had done as a teacher. He was

> afraid of

> > what death would bring him.

> >

> > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> >

> > Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:26:46 -0000

> >

> > Trial by Fire

> >

> >

> > I write this for those disciples that are tested by their Gurus.

> The

> > lines are from a book called "The Alchemy of Transformation" by

Lee

> > Lozowick. It gives us an example of a disciple who remained

> steadfast

> > in his trial by fire.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> > Gurdjieff was a great Russian mystic and Master.

> >

> > One of his students, a man named Orage , was sent to America

where

> > he developed a very large following. He was quite charismatic and

> > personally powerful. His students were extremely enthusiastic

about

> > him, yet most of them had no idea who Gurdjieff was. So , Orage

> > arranged for Gurdjieff to visit him and to work with the students

> he

> > had collected ,and the Master agreed.

> >

> > When Gurdjieff arrived he was taken to a meeting of Orage's

> students.

> > Taking one look around the room, Gurdjieff began to speak, saying

> > that it was obvious to him that Orage had been teaching them

> > completely wrong.

> >

> > Gurdjieff's teaching method was very harsh. He was extremely

strong

> > with his own students and often thrust them into situations that

> were

> > not only shocking, but exceptionally strenuous on their bodies

and

> > emotions. He was a hard, hard taskmaster. In this instance he

> called

> > Orage a false master, telling the new students that they had a

> > charlatan for a teacher, and that Orage had abused the

> responsibility

> > he had been given.

> >

> > Then, Gurdjieff told the group that he himself was the teacher -

> > Orage's teacher- and that he knew the path, while Orage didnt.

> Anyone

> > who wanted to continue in the path, Gurdjieff said, had to become

> his

> > student directly, and in fact had to sign a statement swearing

that

> > they would completely sever all relationships with Orage - not

see

> > him, not speak to him, not read anything he had written. Nothing.

> > Gurdjieff arranged that people should bring their signed

statements

> > to him at his apartment on the following afternoon. Anyone who

> didnt,

> > he said, was finished in the path as far as he was concerned.

> >

> > The group was thrown into absolute turmoil. A few of the people

who

> > recognized Gurdjieff's seniority immediately decided that they

> would

> > sign. Others ran to Orage asking, "What should we do ? You are

the

> > teacher, tell us whether to sign or not." Some asked him, "What

> does

> > this mean? What are you going to do now? Will you still teach ?"

> > But , Orage refused to give advice to anyone. He simply told

> > them , "Do what you have to do".

> >

> > The following day, in the middle of the afternoon, Orage walked

> into

> > Gurdjieff's apartment. He moved towards the Master, stood

directly

> in

> > front of him and gave Gurdjeiff the signed statement swearing to

> have

> > nothing whatsoever to do with Orage, or with anyone who had

> anything

> > to do with Orage from then on, and acknowledging that Gurdjieff

was

> > his exclusive teacher.

> >

> > Gurdjieff took the paper, and without any change of expression

> walked

> > toward the kitchen, and once in there, wept. This was the only

time

> > that any of his students ever saw an expressive display of

emotion

> > from him.

> >

> >

>

=====================================================================

> =

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> > /

> >

> >

> >

> > <?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

Sponsor

/

<?subject=Un>

Terms of Service

<> .

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