Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Swamiji asked me to post this snippet from one of his beloved students who had written her thoughts on puja. Please add in your thoughts/experiences. She also answers my question on keeping the inspiration and love alive. ============================================================== Here are thoughts about puja: When we receive an Inspiration, our hearts fill up with so much Love, but we need a path, a method, a discipline, in order to keep that Love fresh and alive each day. Puja is such a discipline. Each step of puja, each mantra, has its purpose, to bring us in contact with that Love. By doing our puja every morning before we start our day and every evening before we go to sleep, we pause to remember our Inspiration and allow our Love to grow and become more and more the foundation of our lives. Rosie =============================================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 "Swamiji asked me to post this snippet from one of his beloved students who had written her thoughts on puja. Please add in your thoughts/experiences. She also answers my question on keeping the inspiration and love alive. ============================================================== Here are thoughts about puja: When we receive an Inspiration, our hearts fill up with so much Love, but we need a path, a method, a discipline, in order to keep that Love fresh and alive each day. Puja is such a discipline. Each step of puja, each mantra, has its purpose, to bring us in contact with that Love. By doing our puja every morning before we start our day and every evening before we go to sleep, we pause to remember our Inspiration and allow our Love to grow and become more and more the foundation of our lives. Rosie =============================================================== This is my thoughts. I consider Puja as a form of communication. A connection we build between the divine and us and personally I feel it there should not be a time frame attached to it.If one feels this need to communicate, one can just do it especially mentally. Even sitting in the train or bus, we could do our puja privately in our mind/thoughts. 1 or 5 minute of puja with full concentration is better then spending hours and hours in the puja room but our mind are somewhere else. When my guru initiate me, he said : your time of puja is at night, when you have complete all your housework and your duties to your husband and daughter. Personally I am happy because I feel the best time to do puja is at night, where it is more peaceful and condusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Namaste, Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections. I wanted to respond to one of your points "1 or 5 minute of puja with full concentration is better then spending hours and hours in the puja room but our mind are somewhere else. " You are correct in saying that praying with concentration for even a few minutes is beautiful . In my humble opinion, it doesnt necessarily mean that we shouldnt try to expand our sadhana and length of the puja even if we dont have the concentration to begin with. There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether the mind cooperates or not. Thank you Jai Maa Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" You are welcome. Its my pleasure. "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether the mind cooperates or not" Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to the puja room alone. I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Namaste, Thank you once again for expressing your views. This is your forum as much as anyone else's and IMHO all views are to be respected, whether or not we agree with them. So please do not exercise silence and continue to add your thoughts to the conversation. Again , I agree with you. The puja/sadhana does not begin and end in the puja room. Swamiji says that the purpose of the puja or any practice is that we lead a spiritual life. So that our connection to the Goddess extends beyond the puja. The suggestion to sit and pray whether I feel like it or not is not meant for those who only want to do a formal puja for a few minutes. It was made for people who wanted to expand their formal puja, but got discouraged because of lack of focus. It is for the people who want to meditate but who find it difficult to because of the inability to maintain the inner silence in the beginning of their practice. Everything takes time and patience. The suggestion is to tell ourselves not to give up because we get distracted, not to give into our minds, but to carry on regardless. Once again, the suggestion was made for people who wanted to expand their formal practices and got disheartened. Thank you Jai Maa Latha , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > the mind cooperates or not" > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to > the puja room alone. > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Namaste, To my mind, Puja- both physical and mental is one of the many ways of Tapasya prescribed in scriptures to purify the mind. By purifying mind is meant- to make it free from any and every distraction and therby grow in love divine. As the mind progressively gets free from distractions, the spiritual life unfolds. The process is never ending till one reaches the goal of becoming one with universal consciousness or God. Each individual soul is entitled to follow his unique way to achieve this. Scriptures have described many ways which have proved fruitful in past and there is no reason to believe that it will not be so in future. Shree Ramakrishna achieved everything by doing physical Puja with full devotion. He continued with Puja till he could not do it any more because of being fully absorbed with love for the deity. As in the life of the world, so also in life spiritual any progress is step by step. If one tries to jump steps possibility of a fall is great. Any change is always resisted due to inherent lethargy- tamas. Therefore one has to force the mind if need be in the begining to do what one has decided to do. Otherwise nothing can be achieved. Making unwilling mind to do Puja has also great merit, for with time same mind will learn to do it with love and enthusiasim. Many of us I am sure would have had this personal experience. In our Dharma there is no steam roller concept that all have to follow a particular way of practices. One can follow what suits him/her the best, but he/she has to get his/her mind free from all distraction and purify it first before he/she can make progress in spiritual life. As one saint said it, "Do it by any or every means, but DO it." May shree Maa give us strength to achieve total love for Mother Divine. chaitaneya , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Namaste, > > Thank you once again for expressing your views. This is your forum > as much as anyone else's and IMHO all views are to be respected, > whether or not we agree with them. > > So please do not exercise silence and continue to add your thoughts > to the conversation. > > Again , I agree with you. The puja/sadhana does not begin and end in > the puja room. Swamiji says that the purpose of the puja or any > practice is that we lead a spiritual life. So that our connection to > the Goddess extends beyond the puja. > > The suggestion to sit and pray whether I feel like it or not is not > meant for those who only want to do a formal puja for a few minutes. > It was made for people who wanted to expand their formal puja, but > got discouraged because of lack of focus. > > It is for the people who want to meditate but who find it difficult > to because of the inability to maintain the inner silence in the > beginning of their practice. > > Everything takes time and patience. The suggestion is to tell > ourselves not to give up because we get distracted, not to give into > our minds, but to carry on regardless. > > Once again, the suggestion was made for people who wanted to expand > their formal practices and got disheartened. > > Thank you > Jai Maa > Latha > > > > > , "N. Madasamy" > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going > whether > > the mind cooperates or not" > > > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's > words, > > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not > forcing > > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind > refuses > > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our > mind > > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in > the > > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine > to > > the puja room alone. > > > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > > allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Pranam Chaiteneya-ji, You have given a gentle, convincing , unmistakably persuasive post on doing the sadhana, whether we feel like it or not. Thank you JAI MAA Latha , "cvmerani" <cvmerani@r...> wrote: > Namaste, > To my mind, Puja- both physical and mental is one of the many ways > of Tapasya prescribed in scriptures to purify the mind. By purifying > mind is meant- to make it free from any and every distraction and > therby grow in love divine. As the mind progressively gets free from > distractions, the spiritual life unfolds. The process is never > ending till one reaches the goal of becoming one with universal > consciousness or God. Each individual soul is entitled to follow his > unique way to achieve this. Scriptures have described many ways > which have proved fruitful in past and there is no reason to believe > that it will not be so in future. > Shree Ramakrishna achieved everything by doing physical Puja with > full devotion. He continued with Puja till he could not do it any > more because of being fully absorbed with love for the deity. > As in the life of the world, so also in life spiritual any progress > is step by step. If one tries to jump steps possibility of a fall is > great. > Any change is always resisted due to inherent lethargy- tamas. > Therefore one has to force the mind if need be in the begining to do > what one has decided to do. Otherwise nothing can be achieved. > Making unwilling mind to do Puja has also great merit, for with time > same mind will learn to do it with love and enthusiasim. Many of us > I am sure would have had this personal experience. > In our Dharma there is no steam roller concept that all have to > follow a particular way of practices. One can follow what suits > him/her the best, but he/she has to get his/her mind free from all > distraction and purify it first before he/she can make progress in > spiritual life. As one saint said it, "Do it by any or every means, > but DO it." > May shree Maa give us strength to achieve total love for Mother > Divine. > chaitaneya > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > Thank you once again for expressing your views. This is your forum > > as much as anyone else's and IMHO all views are to be respected, > > whether or not we agree with them. > > > > So please do not exercise silence and continue to add your > thoughts > > to the conversation. > > > > Again , I agree with you. The puja/sadhana does not begin and end > in > > the puja room. Swamiji says that the purpose of the puja or any > > practice is that we lead a spiritual life. So that our connection > to > > the Goddess extends beyond the puja. > > > > The suggestion to sit and pray whether I feel like it or not is > not > > meant for those who only want to do a formal puja for a few > minutes. > > It was made for people who wanted to expand their formal puja, > but > > got discouraged because of lack of focus. > > > > It is for the people who want to meditate but who find it > difficult > > to because of the inability to maintain the inner silence in the > > beginning of their practice. > > > > Everything takes time and patience. The suggestion is to tell > > ourselves not to give up because we get distracted, not to give > into > > our minds, but to carry on regardless. > > > > Once again, the suggestion was made for people who wanted to > expand > > their formal practices and got disheartened. > > > > Thank you > > Jai Maa > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > , "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > > > > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > > > > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of > other > > > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these > times > > > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. > As > > > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > > > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going > > whether > > > the mind cooperates or not" > > > > > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's > > words, > > > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not > > forcing > > > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It > is > > > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > > > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind > > refuses > > > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our > > mind > > > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in > > the > > > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not > confine > > to > > > the puja room alone. > > > > > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you > for > > > allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Bravo ! Well said ! , "cvmerani" <cvmerani@r...> wrote: > Namaste, > To my mind, Puja- both physical and mental is one of the many ways > of Tapasya prescribed in scriptures to purify the mind. By purifying > mind is meant- to make it free from any and every distraction and > therby grow in love divine. As the mind progressively gets free from > distractions, the spiritual life unfolds. The process is never > ending till one reaches the goal of becoming one with universal > consciousness or God. Each individual soul is entitled to follow his > unique way to achieve this. Scriptures have described many ways > which have proved fruitful in past and there is no reason to believe > that it will not be so in future. > Shree Ramakrishna achieved everything by doing physical Puja with > full devotion. He continued with Puja till he could not do it any > more because of being fully absorbed with love for the deity. > As in the life of the world, so also in life spiritual any progress > is step by step. If one tries to jump steps possibility of a fall is > great. > Any change is always resisted due to inherent lethargy- tamas. > Therefore one has to force the mind if need be in the begining to do > what one has decided to do. Otherwise nothing can be achieved. > Making unwilling mind to do Puja has also great merit, for with time > same mind will learn to do it with love and enthusiasim. Many of us > I am sure would have had this personal experience. > In our Dharma there is no steam roller concept that all have to > follow a particular way of practices. One can follow what suits > him/her the best, but he/she has to get his/her mind free from all > distraction and purify it first before he/she can make progress in > spiritual life. As one saint said it, "Do it by any or every means, > but DO it." > May shree Maa give us strength to achieve total love for Mother > Divine. > chaitaneya > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > Thank you once again for expressing your views. This is your forum > > as much as anyone else's and IMHO all views are to be respected, > > whether or not we agree with them. > > > > So please do not exercise silence and continue to add your > thoughts > > to the conversation. > > > > Again , I agree with you. The puja/sadhana does not begin and end > in > > the puja room. Swamiji says that the purpose of the puja or any > > practice is that we lead a spiritual life. So that our connection > to > > the Goddess extends beyond the puja. > > > > The suggestion to sit and pray whether I feel like it or not is > not > > meant for those who only want to do a formal puja for a few > minutes. > > It was made for people who wanted to expand their formal puja, > but > > got discouraged because of lack of focus. > > > > It is for the people who want to meditate but who find it > difficult > > to because of the inability to maintain the inner silence in the > > beginning of their practice. > > > > Everything takes time and patience. The suggestion is to tell > > ourselves not to give up because we get distracted, not to give > into > > our minds, but to carry on regardless. > > > > Once again, the suggestion was made for people who wanted to > expand > > their formal practices and got disheartened. > > > > Thank you > > Jai Maa > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > , "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > > > > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > > > > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of > other > > > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these > times > > > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. > As > > > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > > > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going > > whether > > > the mind cooperates or not" > > > > > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's > > words, > > > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not > > forcing > > > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It > is > > > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > > > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind > > refuses > > > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our > > mind > > > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in > > the > > > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not > confine > > to > > > the puja room alone. > > > > > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you > for > > > allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Dear N. Madasamy, Please do not be silent out of any feeling that your views and presence are not accepted here. We do not all agree about all things, and we are all free to express those differences. Hearing and integrating different experiences and points of view is part of satsanga. Remembering our commonality is the most important thing, and that is our common love and striving for absorption in the divine. Someone has said that the path of jnana is like walking the razor's edge, but I think all sadhana is walking the razor's edge. Only the one already immersed in the Divine has a perfected sadhana. For the rest of us sadhana is always a walk upon a narrow edge, with complete ignorance on one side, and the immense power of the samskaras, vasanas, likes and dislikes, and ego on the other. The discipline of sadhana is the razor we walk. If we let the discipline go we fall back into absorption in the maya. If we attempt too much, too fast, all the obstacles of the mind rear up like a great wave and threaten to engulf us. We all walk on the edge of pain, until that day we are freed. The processes of sadhana are very mysterious. It is easy, after so much effort, so much struggle, to believe that what I do when I practice is that which changes me. Of course, there is an element of truth to that. The methods I use and the effort I put into my practices does have a bearing on how, and how much, I change. But that is only part of the story. In very important ways, unless we have pure intuitive vision, we are all of us ignorant of just what occurs when we practice. We tell ourselves we are practicing to control our minds, our thoughts, purifying our intentions, etc., but how are these things accomplished exactly? When we say Om Namah Shivaya, what exactly changes in us? Are these changes equal to the amount of effort we've expended, or do we get much more in return for what little we are able to give? Are there not times when we practice, and practice, and practice, and nothing seems to change, and then, all of a sudden, everything changes? We are all at the mercy of our minds and egos, to varying degrees, and the constant call of the objects and distractions of the world of maya pulls us. Freedom resides at the end of the razor, and to get there we must walk the edge. How fast or slowly we progress depends on our efforts, on the relative intensity of those practices we perform each day, on how wide our particular edge becomes as we progress. At the end, when the charms and temptations of the world no longer call to us, and when we have finally become whole within, the whole universe is the edge of the razor. There is nowhere to fall. All of life is sadhana. In the beginning the path is fraught with difficulty and peril. Our efforts allow us to progress, but it is that grace which is as ineffable, as beautiful, as auspicious as Mother Herself that actually draws us forward, changing us, guiding us, and keeping us from falling. May we all remain in Her tender grasp until the end is achieved. Chris , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > the mind cooperates or not" > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to > the puja room alone. > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > allowing me to express my views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 We already told the story of the sinful king who was told to go home and say the name of Ram twice. The father got mad with the advice of his son and said, "You could have told him to say it once!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Once I was waiting to talk to Shree Maa in the temple. There was a couple ahead of me talking with great energy about whether they should move closer to the temple or stay in the community where they were established and had work. They also spoke about the desire to fast more often and what they should concentrate on for their sadhana. Maa just smiled a blissful smile and said "step by step, step by step". "cvmerani" <cvmerani (AT) rocketmail (DOT) com> Tue, 10 Feb 2004 04:56:50 -0000 Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Namaste, To my mind, Puja- both physical and mental is one of the many ways of Tapasya prescribed in scriptures to purify the mind. By purifying mind is meant- to make it free from any and every distraction and therby grow in love divine. As the mind progressively gets free from distractions, the spiritual life unfolds. The process is never ending till one reaches the goal of becoming one with universal consciousness or God. Each individual soul is entitled to follow his unique way to achieve this. Scriptures have described many ways which have proved fruitful in past and there is no reason to believe that it will not be so in future. Shree Ramakrishna achieved everything by doing physical Puja with full devotion. He continued with Puja till he could not do it any more because of being fully absorbed with love for the deity. As in the life of the world, so also in life spiritual any progress is step by step. If one tries to jump steps possibility of a fall is great. Any change is always resisted due to inherent lethargy- tamas. Therefore one has to force the mind if need be in the begining to do what one has decided to do. Otherwise nothing can be achieved. Making unwilling mind to do Puja has also great merit, for with time same mind will learn to do it with love and enthusiasim. Many of us I am sure would have had this personal experience. In our Dharma there is no steam roller concept that all have to follow a particular way of practices. One can follow what suits him/her the best, but he/she has to get his/her mind free from all distraction and purify it first before he/she can make progress in spiritual life. As one saint said it, "Do it by any or every means, but DO it." May shree Maa give us strength to achieve total love for Mother Divine. chaitaneya , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Namaste, > > Thank you once again for expressing your views. This is your forum > as much as anyone else's and IMHO all views are to be respected, > whether or not we agree with them. > > So please do not exercise silence and continue to add your thoughts > to the conversation. > > Again , I agree with you. The puja/sadhana does not begin and end in > the puja room. Swamiji says that the purpose of the puja or any > practice is that we lead a spiritual life. So that our connection to > the Goddess extends beyond the puja. > > The suggestion to sit and pray whether I feel like it or not is not > meant for those who only want to do a formal puja for a few minutes. > It was made for people who wanted to expand their formal puja, but > got discouraged because of lack of focus. > > It is for the people who want to meditate but who find it difficult > to because of the inability to maintain the inner silence in the > beginning of their practice. > > Everything takes time and patience. The suggestion is to tell > ourselves not to give up because we get distracted, not to give into > our minds, but to carry on regardless. > > Once again, the suggestion was made for people who wanted to expand > their formal practices and got disheartened. > > Thank you > Jai Maa > Latha > > > > > , "N. Madasamy" > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going > whether > > the mind cooperates or not" > > > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's > words, > > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not > forcing > > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind > refuses > > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our > mind > > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in > the > > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine > to > > the puja room alone. > > > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > > allowing me to express my views. / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Swamiji translates kripa (grace) as "do and get". The guru's grace is that the disciple will receive the fruit of their sadhana. Having lived in Shree Maa and Swamiji's presence, I must admit that receiving this grace is not always pleasant. It is always a blessing, always a gift; but sometimes it comes in the form of tapas. The intensity of practicing in their home was sometimes so intense that I literally raced down the mountain to get back to ordinary reality. Everything was intensified at the Devi Mandir. Sitting at the altar was often like sitting in front a mirror in which all of my egoic faults were staring back at me. Living with the other devotees meant accepting them as they were, warts and all; and learning to observe and accept myself in the same way (not always easy to see my own warts!). Seeing things in balance. Seeing the divine shining through the ordinary. Seeing the divinity in Parvati's friendship and service and the godliness in Gautam's sweeping. Allowing the gurus' grace and shakti to enter my lifestream was a burning purification. It was a relief to get home to my simple abode where there were no distractions and settle into the rhythm of my worship. Then the next weekend I was ready and excited and happy to drive back up the mountain to lay myself at my gurus' feet and accept the next trial, the next lesson, the next blessing. What a Blessing to have shared in that life for so many years. Sometimes I am overwhelmed that I was a student of these satgurus, these jagadgurus, these avatars; right here in America. Maa said to me once "you come up to Heaven on the weekends". At that particular moment, it was 110 degrees in the shade and I had been at the fire for a few hours. Excuse me, Maa, but that moment it felt more like a physical hell than a heaven. But once I escaped and raced down the hill, I knew that she had spoken a great truth. As a former Christian, I had never realized that Heaven was not just a place for glorifying God... it was a place for becoming One with God; no matter what it takes. Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati: your stream of blessings and divine love are my holy Ganges and my daily nourishment. Love to all who participate in this satsang... and blessings always, Ardis "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:26:29 -0000 Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Dear N. Madasamy, Please do not be silent out of any feeling that your views and presence are not accepted here. We do not all agree about all things, and we are all free to express those differences. Hearing and integrating different experiences and points of view is part of satsanga. Remembering our commonality is the most important thing, and that is our common love and striving for absorption in the divine. Someone has said that the path of jnana is like walking the razor's edge, but I think all sadhana is walking the razor's edge. Only the one already immersed in the Divine has a perfected sadhana. For the rest of us sadhana is always a walk upon a narrow edge, with complete ignorance on one side, and the immense power of the samskaras, vasanas, likes and dislikes, and ego on the other. The discipline of sadhana is the razor we walk. If we let the discipline go we fall back into absorption in the maya. If we attempt too much, too fast, all the obstacles of the mind rear up like a great wave and threaten to engulf us. We all walk on the edge of pain, until that day we are freed. The processes of sadhana are very mysterious. It is easy, after so much effort, so much struggle, to believe that what I do when I practice is that which changes me. Of course, there is an element of truth to that. The methods I use and the effort I put into my practices does have a bearing on how, and how much, I change. But that is only part of the story. In very important ways, unless we have pure intuitive vision, we are all of us ignorant of just what occurs when we practice. We tell ourselves we are practicing to control our minds, our thoughts, purifying our intentions, etc., but how are these things accomplished exactly? When we say Om Namah Shivaya, what exactly changes in us? Are these changes equal to the amount of effort we've expended, or do we get much more in return for what little we are able to give? Are there not times when we practice, and practice, and practice, and nothing seems to change, and then, all of a sudden, everything changes? We are all at the mercy of our minds and egos, to varying degrees, and the constant call of the objects and distractions of the world of maya pulls us. Freedom resides at the end of the razor, and to get there we must walk the edge. How fast or slowly we progress depends on our efforts, on the relative intensity of those practices we perform each day, on how wide our particular edge becomes as we progress. At the end, when the charms and temptations of the world no longer call to us, and when we have finally become whole within, the whole universe is the edge of the razor. There is nowhere to fall. All of life is sadhana. In the beginning the path is fraught with difficulty and peril. Our efforts allow us to progress, but it is that grace which is as ineffable, as beautiful, as auspicious as Mother Herself that actually draws us forward, changing us, guiding us, and keeping us from falling. May we all remain in Her tender grasp until the end is achieved. Chris , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > the mind cooperates or not" > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to > the puja room alone. > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > allowing me to express my views. Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . 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Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 This really brings tears to my eyes! Simply beautiful! Jai Maa! Bom Mahadev! - Ardis Jackson Tuesday, February 10, 2004 4:35 PM Re: Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Swamiji translates kripa (grace) as "do and get". The guru's grace is that the disciple will receive the fruit of their sadhana. Having lived in Shree Maa and Swamiji's presence, I must admit that receiving this grace is not always pleasant. It is always a blessing, always a gift; but sometimes it comes in the form of tapas. The intensity of practicing in their home was sometimes so intense that I literally raced down the mountain to get back to ordinary reality. Everything was intensified at the Devi Mandir. Sitting at the altar was often like sitting in front a mirror in which all of my egoic faults were staring back at me. Living with the other devotees meant accepting them as they were, warts and all; and learning to observe and accept myself in the same way (not always easy to see my own warts!). Seeing things in balance. Seeing the divine shining through the ordinary. Seeing the divinity in Parvati's friendship and service and the godliness in Gautam's sweeping.Allowing the gurus' grace and shakti to enter my lifestream was a burning purification. It was a relief to get home to my simple abode where there were no distractions and settle into the rhythm of my worship. Then the next weekend I was ready and excited and happy to drive back up the mountain to lay myself at my gurus' feet and accept the next trial, the next lesson, the next blessing. What a Blessing to have shared in that life for so many years. Sometimes I am overwhelmed that I was a student of these satgurus, these jagadgurus, these avatars; right here in America.Maa said to me once "you come up to Heaven on the weekends". At that particular moment, it was 110 degrees in the shade and I had been at the fire for a few hours. Excuse me, Maa, but that moment it felt more like a physical hell than a heaven. But once I escaped and raced down the hill, I knew that she had spoken a great truth. As a former Christian, I had never realized that Heaven was not just a place for glorifying God... it was a place for becoming One with God; no matter what it takes.Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati: your stream of blessings and divine love are my holy Ganges and my daily nourishment.Love to all who participate in this satsang... and blessings always,Ardis "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:26:29 -0000To: Subject: Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Dear N. Madasamy,Please do not be silent out of any feeling that your views and presence are not accepted here. We do not all agree about all things, and we are all free to express those differences. Hearing and integrating different experiences and points of view is part of satsanga. Remembering our commonality is the most important thing, and that is our common love and striving for absorption in the divine.Someone has said that the path of jnana is like walking the razor's edge, but I think all sadhana is walking the razor's edge. Only the one already immersed in the Divine has a perfected sadhana. For the rest of us sadhana is always a walk upon a narrow edge, with complete ignorance on one side, and the immense power of the samskaras, vasanas, likes and dislikes, and ego on the other. The discipline of sadhana is the razor we walk. If we let the discipline go we fall back into absorption in the maya. If we attempt too much, too fast, all the obstacles of the mind rear up like a great wave and threaten to engulf us. We all walk on the edge of pain, until that day we are freed.The processes of sadhana are very mysterious. It is easy, after so much effort, so much struggle, to believe that what I do when I practice is that which changes me. Of course, there is an element of truth to that. The methods I use and the effort I put into my practices does have a bearing on how, and how much, I change. But that is only part of the story. In very important ways, unless we have pure intuitive vision, we are all of us ignorant of just what occurs when we practice. We tell ourselves we are practicing to control our minds, our thoughts, purifying our intentions, etc., but how are these things accomplished exactly? When we say Om Namah Shivaya, what exactly changes in us? Are these changes equal to the amount of effort we've expended, or do we get much more in return for what little we are able to give? Are there not times when we practice, and practice, and practice, and nothing seems to change, and then, all of a sudden, everything changes?We are all at the mercy of our minds and egos, to varying degrees, and the constant call of the objects and distractions of the world of maya pulls us. Freedom resides at the end of the razor, and to get there we must walk the edge. How fast or slowly we progress depends on our efforts, on the relative intensity of those practices we perform each day, on how wide our particular edge becomes as we progress. At the end, when the charms and temptations of the world no longer call to us, and when we have finally become whole within, the whole universe is the edge of the razor. There is nowhere to fall. All of life is sadhana.In the beginning the path is fraught with difficulty and peril. Our efforts allow us to progress, but it is that grace which is as ineffable, as beautiful, as auspicious as Mother Herself that actually draws us forward, changing us, guiding us, and keeping us from falling. May we all remain in Her tender grasp until the end is achieved.Chris--- In , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote:> "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections"> > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > the mind cooperates or not"> > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to > the puja room alone. > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > allowing me to express my views. Groups Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Ardis, Thank you so much for sharing those memories. Somehow I totally understand what you are saying regarding the intensity of being with the Satguru. Sometimes the strength and purity of the shakti can seem like too much. It never is too much to handle, but can overwhlem. I haven't physically lived with a Satguru, but my Satguru is always with me, loving me along. Seems like grace. Sweet Blessings, Lynne - Ardis Jackson Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:35 PM Re: Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Swamiji translates kripa (grace) as "do and get". The guru's grace is that the disciple will receive the fruit of their sadhana. Having lived in Shree Maa and Swamiji's presence, I must admit that receiving this grace is not always pleasant. It is always a blessing, always a gift; but sometimes it comes in the form of tapas. The intensity of practicing in their home was sometimes so intense that I literally raced down the mountain to get back to ordinary reality. Everything was intensified at the Devi Mandir. Sitting at the altar was often like sitting in front a mirror in which all of my egoic faults were staring back at me. Living with the other devotees meant accepting them as they were, warts and all; and learning to observe and accept myself in the same way (not always easy to see my own warts!). Seeing things in balance. Seeing the divine shining through the ordinary. Seeing the divinity in Parvati's friendship and service and the godliness in Gautam's sweeping.Allowing the gurus' grace and shakti to enter my lifestream was a burning purification. It was a relief to get home to my simple abode where there were no distractions and settle into the rhythm of my worship. Then the next weekend I was ready and excited and happy to drive back up the mountain to lay myself at my gurus' feet and accept the next trial, the next lesson, the next blessing. What a Blessing to have shared in that life for so many years. Sometimes I am overwhelmed that I was a student of these satgurus, these jagadgurus, these avatars; right here in America.Maa said to me once "you come up to Heaven on the weekends". At that particular moment, it was 110 degrees in the shade and I had been at the fire for a few hours. Excuse me, Maa, but that moment it felt more like a physical hell than a heaven. But once I escaped and raced down the hill, I knew that she had spoken a great truth. As a former Christian, I had never realized that Heaven was not just a place for glorifying God... it was a place for becoming One with God; no matter what it takes.Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati: your stream of blessings and divine love are my holy Ganges and my daily nourishment.Love to all who participate in this satsang... and blessings always,Ardis "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:26:29 -0000To: Subject: Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie Dear N. Madasamy,Please do not be silent out of any feeling that your views and presence are not accepted here. We do not all agree about all things, and we are all free to express those differences. Hearing and integrating different experiences and points of view is part of satsanga. Remembering our commonality is the most important thing, and that is our common love and striving for absorption in the divine.Someone has said that the path of jnana is like walking the razor's edge, but I think all sadhana is walking the razor's edge. Only the one already immersed in the Divine has a perfected sadhana. For the rest of us sadhana is always a walk upon a narrow edge, with complete ignorance on one side, and the immense power of the samskaras, vasanas, likes and dislikes, and ego on the other. The discipline of sadhana is the razor we walk. If we let the discipline go we fall back into absorption in the maya. If we attempt too much, too fast, all the obstacles of the mind rear up like a great wave and threaten to engulf us. We all walk on the edge of pain, until that day we are freed.The processes of sadhana are very mysterious. It is easy, after so much effort, so much struggle, to believe that what I do when I practice is that which changes me. Of course, there is an element of truth to that. The methods I use and the effort I put into my practices does have a bearing on how, and how much, I change. But that is only part of the story. In very important ways, unless we have pure intuitive vision, we are all of us ignorant of just what occurs when we practice. We tell ourselves we are practicing to control our minds, our thoughts, purifying our intentions, etc., but how are these things accomplished exactly? When we say Om Namah Shivaya, what exactly changes in us? Are these changes equal to the amount of effort we've expended, or do we get much more in return for what little we are able to give? Are there not times when we practice, and practice, and practice, and nothing seems to change, and then, all of a sudden, everything changes?We are all at the mercy of our minds and egos, to varying degrees, and the constant call of the objects and distractions of the world of maya pulls us. Freedom resides at the end of the razor, and to get there we must walk the edge. How fast or slowly we progress depends on our efforts, on the relative intensity of those practices we perform each day, on how wide our particular edge becomes as we progress. At the end, when the charms and temptations of the world no longer call to us, and when we have finally become whole within, the whole universe is the edge of the razor. There is nowhere to fall. All of life is sadhana.In the beginning the path is fraught with difficulty and peril. Our efforts allow us to progress, but it is that grace which is as ineffable, as beautiful, as auspicious as Mother Herself that actually draws us forward, changing us, guiding us, and keeping us from falling. May we all remain in Her tender grasp until the end is achieved.Chris--- In , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote:> "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections"> > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > the mind cooperates or not"> > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's words, > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our mind > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in the > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine to > the puja room alone. > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > allowing me to express my views. Groups Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Ardis, Your discussion about your experience with guru's grace was very beautiful. Thank you. Chris , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > > Swamiji translates kripa (grace) as "do and get". The guru's grace is that > the disciple will receive the fruit of their sadhana. Having lived in Shree > Maa and Swamiji's presence, I must admit that receiving this grace is not > always pleasant. It is always a blessing, always a gift; but sometimes it > comes in the form of tapas. The intensity of practicing in their home was > sometimes so intense that I literally raced down the mountain to get back to > ordinary reality. Everything was intensified at the Devi Mandir. Sitting > at the altar was often like sitting in front a mirror in which all of my > egoic faults were staring back at me. Living with the other devotees meant > accepting them as they were, warts and all; and learning to observe and > accept myself in the same way (not always easy to see my own warts!). > Seeing things in balance. Seeing the divine shining through the ordinary. > Seeing the divinity in Parvati's friendship and service and the godliness in > Gautam's sweeping. > > Allowing the gurus' grace and shakti to enter my lifestream was a burning > purification. It was a relief to get home to my simple abode where there > were no distractions and settle into the rhythm of my worship. Then the > next weekend I was ready and excited and happy to drive back up the mountain > to lay myself at my gurus' feet and accept the next trial, the next lesson, > the next blessing. What a Blessing to have shared in that life for so many > years. Sometimes I am overwhelmed that I was a student of these satgurus, > these jagadgurus, these avatars; right here in America. > > Maa said to me once "you come up to Heaven on the weekends". At that > particular moment, it was 110 degrees in the shade and I had been at the > fire for a few hours. Excuse me, Maa, but that moment it felt more like a > physical hell than a heaven. But once I escaped and raced down the hill, I > knew that she had spoken a great truth. As a former Christian, I had never > realized that Heaven was not just a place for glorifying God... it was a > place for becoming One with God; no matter what it takes. > > Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati: your stream of blessings and > divine love are my holy Ganges and my daily nourishment. > > Love to all who participate in this satsang... and blessings always, > > Ardis > > "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> > > Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:26:29 -0000 > > Re: Why we do Puja - From Rosie > > > Dear N. Madasamy, > > Please do not be silent out of any feeling that your views and > presence are not accepted here. We do not all agree about all things, > and we are all free to express those differences. Hearing and > integrating different experiences and points of view is part of > satsanga. Remembering our commonality is the most important thing, > and that is our common love and striving for absorption in the divine. > > Someone has said that the path of jnana is like walking the razor's > edge, but I think all sadhana is walking the razor's edge. Only the > one already immersed in the Divine has a perfected sadhana. For the > rest of us sadhana is always a walk upon a narrow edge, with complete > ignorance on one side, and the immense power of the samskaras, > vasanas, likes and dislikes, and ego on the other. The discipline of > sadhana is the razor we walk. If we let the discipline go we fall > back into absorption in the maya. If we attempt too much, too fast, > all the obstacles of the mind rear up like a great wave and threaten > to engulf us. We all walk on the edge of pain, until that day we are > freed. > > The processes of sadhana are very mysterious. It is easy, after so > much effort, so much struggle, to believe that what I do when I > practice is that which changes me. Of course, there is an element of > truth to that. The methods I use and the effort I put into my > practices does have a bearing on how, and how much, I change. But > that is only part of the story. > > In very important ways, unless we have pure intuitive vision, we are > all of us ignorant of just what occurs when we practice. We tell > ourselves we are practicing to control our minds, our thoughts, > purifying our intentions, etc., but how are these things accomplished > exactly? When we say Om Namah Shivaya, what exactly changes in us? > Are these changes equal to the amount of effort we've expended, or do > we get much more in return for what little we are able to give? Are > there not times when we practice, and practice, and practice, and > nothing seems to change, and then, all of a sudden, everything > changes? > > We are all at the mercy of our minds and egos, to varying degrees, > and the constant call of the objects and distractions of the world of > maya pulls us. Freedom resides at the end of the razor, and to get > there we must walk the edge. How fast or slowly we progress depends > on our efforts, on the relative intensity of those practices we > perform each day, on how wide our particular edge becomes as we > progress. At the end, when the charms and temptations of the world no > longer call to us, and when we have finally become whole within, the > whole universe is the edge of the razor. There is nowhere to fall. > All of life is sadhana. > > In the beginning the path is fraught with difficulty and peril. Our > efforts allow us to progress, but it is that grace which is as > ineffable, as beautiful, as auspicious as Mother Herself that > actually draws us forward, changing us, guiding us, and keeping us > from falling. May we all remain in Her tender grasp until the end is > achieved. > > Chris > > > > , "N. Madasamy" > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > "Welcome and thank you for posting your reflections" > > > > You are welcome. Its my pleasure. > > > > "There are many times when the mind tricks us - to think of other > > things instead of focussing on the Goddess. It is at these times > > that we should renew our prayers with even more determination. As > > Swamiji says, " I cannot control my thoughts, but I WILL keep my > > knees down" referring to the fact that we should keep going whether > > the mind cooperates or not" > > > > Forgive me, for it is not my intention to questions Swamiji's > words, > > but just some questions that come to my mind : arent we not forcing > > ourselve to do sadhana when our mind is not being prepared? It is > > like asking a child to sit still and when he/she refuses, you > > threatened or tie them down. Will this work? So if our mind refuses > > to cooperate : What are the steps that we can take to bring our > mind > > back into focus toward the Goddess. Should we continue to sit in > the > > puja room? It is my personal believe that Sadhana does not confine > to > > the puja room alone. > > > > I will excise silence for a change from now onwards. Thank you for > > allowing me to express my views. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <?subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . 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Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Dear Swamiji, Pranams. On the one hand, we advocate expanding the length of our sadhana and disciplining ourselves to remain in the asan, on the other hand we say that saying the name of Ram once is sufficent. Which is correct? Can you please help me understand. With love Latha , "swami_satyanandasaraswati" <swami_satyanandasaraswati> wrote: > We already told the story of the sinful king who was told to go home > and say the name of Ram twice. The father got mad with the advice of > his son and said, "You could have told him to say it once!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 They are both correct. The sinful King, if he has faith, will sin no more. The sadhu who wants to do more, should do more! , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Swamiji, > Pranams. > > On the one hand, we advocate expanding the length of our > sadhana and disciplining ourselves to remain in the asan, on > the other hand we say that saying the name of Ram once is sufficent. > Which is correct? Can you please help me understand. > > With love > Latha > > > , "swami_satyanandasaraswati" > <swami_satyanandasaraswati> wrote: > > We already told the story of the sinful king who was told to go > home > > and say the name of Ram twice. The father got mad with the advice > of > > his son and said, "You could have told him to say it once!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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