Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I read today :- "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary effort and then wait patiently. " Amazing Grace ! You work on your time table , Oh Lord ! All I can do is to keep doing my sadhana and pray to you diligently. I will do my best and leave the rest upto YOU. I am going to pin that up wherever I can see as a constant reminder , for the next time I get discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 yes, that is a really crucial thing. do and wait. samadhi comes and goes. all this is beyond me. i am protected by YOU and the Gurus. love, love, love. thank you for all this. when anything comes, it is you. when anything goes, it is you. love, s , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > I read today :- > > "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary > effort and then wait patiently. " > > > Amazing Grace ! You work on your time table , Oh Lord ! All I can do > is to keep doing my sadhana and pray to you diligently. I will do my > best and leave the rest upto YOU. > > I am going to pin that up wherever I can see as a constant > reminder , for the next time I get discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > I read today :- > > "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary > effort and then wait patiently. " > Yes! This is one of my pet concepts nowadays.... in fact, my thoughts on these are extreme (as assessed when I have discussed with other friends); I believe that even the "necessary effort" that we put in is something given by Grace. Circumstances in life have convinced me that the very ability to breathe is a function of Grace, then what to say of all the other activities I do. Put in another way: All effort is really nothing but manifested Grace All 'goals to be achieved' are nothing but Grace waiting to manifest itself. I don't know if this sounds odd to you, but I cannot see it any other way. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Dear Manoj, Namaste. IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens is God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will and Grace" , no one can deny it. My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make the efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised if only I keep on with my sadhana ! Nice discussion. Jai Maa ! Latha , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > I read today :- > > > > "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary > > effort and then wait patiently. " > > > > Yes! This is one of my pet concepts nowadays.... in fact, my thoughts > on these are extreme (as assessed when I have discussed with other > friends); I believe that even the "necessary effort" that we put in > is something given by Grace. > > Circumstances in life have convinced me that the very ability to > breathe is a function of Grace, then what to say of all the other > activities I do. > > Put in another way: > All effort is really nothing but manifested Grace > All 'goals to be achieved' are nothing but Grace waiting to manifest > itself. > > I don't know if this sounds odd to you, but I cannot see it any other > way. > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 this is a pretty important point. i have seen many people start with the end. in other words, they end up doing nothing much in terms of devotion because they see things almost too globally. the intellectual realization has not been expressed in every inch as someone like swami for example. i myself have wandered down that path. not saying Manoj is doing this at all, because i completely understand the wider/deeper aspects of this pov as well. but the dangers are there, and the unfortunate result is wasted time. s , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Manoj, > > Namaste. > > IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start > with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens is > God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will and > Grace" , no one can deny it. > > My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself > and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make the > efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to > make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised if > only I keep on with my sadhana ! > > Nice discussion. Jai Maa ! > Latha > > > > > , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> > wrote: > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > I read today :- > > > > > > "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the > necessary > > > effort and then wait patiently. " > > > > > > > Yes! This is one of my pet concepts nowadays.... in fact, my > thoughts > > on these are extreme (as assessed when I have discussed with other > > friends); I believe that even the "necessary effort" that we put > in > > is something given by Grace. > > > > Circumstances in life have convinced me that the very ability to > > breathe is a function of Grace, then what to say of all the other > > activities I do. > > > > Put in another way: > > All effort is really nothing but manifested Grace > > All 'goals to be achieved' are nothing but Grace waiting to > manifest > > itself. > > > > I don't know if this sounds odd to you, but I cannot see it any > other > > way. > > > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Dear Latha: To put in simpler terms, you are saying that you come from dvaita (duality - human seeking divinity), rather than advaita (non-duality - divinity is inherent in me). Believe me when I say that I come from the same dvaita that you are in, and that I still have the same desire to see God as you do! I do not believe I have reached the state of realization yet; all I have said is that I have said certain experiences in life that have convinced me that the "very ability to put effort" is in itself a manifestation of Grace. So, in what I have mentioned, it is not about the starting point, but a gentle but unfinished metamorphosis (and something that could rollback too) after the starting point.... very hard to explain. Dear Steve, I understand the 'dangers' you are pointing to (exampled in the 'dry intellectualism' of, if ' you and I are both brahman', then my eating lunch is the same as your hunger being satisfied!). That is not the basis of what I wrote, rather it is something totally convincing to me as I said above. Jai Ma! , "bingo_ridley" <bingo_ridley> wrote: > this is a pretty important point. i have seen many people start with > the end. in other words, they end up doing nothing much in terms of > devotion because they see things almost too globally. the > intellectual realization has not been expressed in every inch as > someone like swami for example. i myself have wandered down that > path. not saying Manoj is doing this at all, because i completely > understand the wider/deeper aspects of this pov as well. but the > dangers are there, and the unfortunate result is wasted time. > > s > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > Dear Manoj, > > > > Namaste. > > > > IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start > > with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens > is > > God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will and > > Grace" , no one can deny it. > > > > My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself > > and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make the > > efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to > > make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised > if > > only I keep on with my sadhana ! > > > > Nice discussion. Jai Maa ! > > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 yes manoj i understand completely. your post simply bought to mind a slice of spiritual seekers i know quite well. they have taken this knowledge from reading, and intuition, and concluded there is nothing to do. which paradoxically is true. but, where is that passion. i have never read anything so pleasing as this idea of thanking duality. when you think about it, it all comes together. and i do sometimes think, just as you, "ah! here i am trying! but who is trying? god is trying to see god! what does that mean? it is all the lila!" my inspiration is a being like swami [sorry to sound so adulating!] that BRINGS THIS INTO PRACTICE. for whatever reason that seems important, perhaps i am just a lunkhead ... it all has to be real. which is why [in my opinion] what you all are doing here ... this devi mandir ... is so valuable. may god protect us all from materialism and fame so this contemplation can deepen. i love you, as much as i can, peace, peace, peace, steve , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > Dear Latha: > > To put in simpler terms, you are saying that you come from dvaita > (duality - human seeking divinity), rather than advaita (non- duality - > divinity is inherent in me). > > Believe me when I say that I come from the same dvaita that you are > in, and that I still have the same desire to see God as you do! > > I do not believe I have reached the state of realization yet; all I > have said is that I have said certain experiences in life that have > convinced me that the "very ability to put effort" is in itself a > manifestation of Grace. > > So, in what I have mentioned, it is not about the starting point, but > a gentle but unfinished metamorphosis (and something that could > rollback too) after the starting point.... very hard to explain. > > > Dear Steve, > I understand the 'dangers' you are pointing to (exampled in the 'dry > intellectualism' of, if ' you and I are both brahman', then my eating > lunch is the same as your hunger being satisfied!). > > That is not the basis of what I wrote, rather it is something totally > convincing to me as I said above. > > > Jai Ma! > > > , "bingo_ridley" > <bingo_ridley> wrote: > > this is a pretty important point. i have seen many people start > with > > the end. in other words, they end up doing nothing much in terms of > > devotion because they see things almost too globally. the > > intellectual realization has not been expressed in every inch as > > someone like swami for example. i myself have wandered down that > > path. not saying Manoj is doing this at all, because i completely > > understand the wider/deeper aspects of this pov as well. but the > > dangers are there, and the unfortunate result is wasted time. > > > > s > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Dear Manoj, > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start > > > with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens > > is > > > God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will > and > > > Grace" , no one can deny it. > > > > > > My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself > > > and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make > the > > > efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to > > > make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised > > if > > > only I keep on with my sadhana ! > > > > > > Nice discussion. Jai Maa ! > > > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Latha and All, Jai Maa! I think help comes when you try. With enough shraddha mixed in....it'a all just right, just now. Thank you! Love and Peace to All, Lynne - Latha Nanda Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:11 PM Re: Amazing Grace Dear Manoj,Namaste.IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens is God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will and Grace" , no one can deny it.My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make the efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised if only I keep on with my sadhana ! Nice discussion. Jai Maa !Latha, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:> --- In , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote:> > I read today :-> > > > "Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary > > effort and then wait patiently. "> > > > Yes! This is one of my pet concepts nowadays.... in fact, my thoughts > on these are extreme (as assessed when I have discussed with other > friends); I believe that even the "necessary effort" that we put in > is something given by Grace.> > Circumstances in life have convinced me that the very ability to > breathe is a function of Grace, then what to say of all the other > activities I do.> > Put in another way:> All effort is really nothing but manifested Grace> All 'goals to be achieved' are nothing but Grace waiting to manifest > itself.> > I don't know if this sounds odd to you, but I cannot see it any other > way.> > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Hi Latha, Very timely... I had this idea last night. Many people claim they can't surrender for fear of becoming a leaf in the wind, but surrender is not blowing in the wind, surrender is praying to goddess to blow you in the right direction and then surrendering to her wind, to her will. We actively pray, we actively surrender. *hugs* Brian At 11:28 AM 2/26/2004, you wrote: >I read today :- > >"Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary >effort and then wait patiently. " > > >Amazing Grace ! You work on your time table , Oh Lord ! All I can do >is to keep doing my sadhana and pray to you diligently. I will do my >best and leave the rest upto YOU. > >I am going to pin that up wherever I can see as a constant >reminder , for the next time I get discouraged. Links > > > > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.583 / Virus Database: 369 - Release 2/10/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.583 / Virus Database: 369 - Release 2/10/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 oh yes you are then near the root as well as being all the leaves quivering steve , Brian McKee <brian@s...> wrote: > Hi Latha, > > Very timely... > > I had this idea last night. Many people claim they can't surrender for fear > of becoming a leaf in the wind, but surrender is not blowing in the wind, > surrender is praying to goddess to blow you in the right direction and then > surrendering to her wind, to her will. > > We actively pray, we actively surrender. > > *hugs* > > Brian > > At 11:28 AM 2/26/2004, you wrote: > > >I read today :- > > > >"Grace is the deciding factor. Therefore, put forth the necessary > >effort and then wait patiently. " > > > > > >Amazing Grace ! You work on your time table , Oh Lord ! All I can do > >is to keep doing my sadhana and pray to you diligently. I will do my > >best and leave the rest upto YOU. > > > >I am going to pin that up wherever I can see as a constant > >reminder , for the next time I get discouraged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.583 / Virus Database: 369 - Release 2/10/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.583 / Virus Database: 369 - Release 2/10/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Manoj, I agree with you completely. The Christian scriptures state very clearly that one can only surrender to Jesus through the grace of the Holy Spirit. It is grace that puts one on the path and grace that keeps one moving when our own weaknesses prove too much. During periods of inner clarity I have seen the loving touch of God again and again in my life, helping me beyond any deservedness on my part. Grace is a great mystery, and the greatest beauty this life offers. Chris , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > Dear Latha: > > To put in simpler terms, you are saying that you come from dvaita > (duality - human seeking divinity), rather than advaita (non- duality - > divinity is inherent in me). > > Believe me when I say that I come from the same dvaita that you are > in, and that I still have the same desire to see God as you do! > > I do not believe I have reached the state of realization yet; all I > have said is that I have said certain experiences in life that have > convinced me that the "very ability to put effort" is in itself a > manifestation of Grace. > > So, in what I have mentioned, it is not about the starting point, but > a gentle but unfinished metamorphosis (and something that could > rollback too) after the starting point.... very hard to explain. > > > Dear Steve, > I understand the 'dangers' you are pointing to (exampled in the 'dry > intellectualism' of, if ' you and I are both brahman', then my eating > lunch is the same as your hunger being satisfied!). > > That is not the basis of what I wrote, rather it is something totally > convincing to me as I said above. > > > Jai Ma! > > > , "bingo_ridley" > <bingo_ridley> wrote: > > this is a pretty important point. i have seen many people start > with > > the end. in other words, they end up doing nothing much in terms of > > devotion because they see things almost too globally. the > > intellectual realization has not been expressed in every inch as > > someone like swami for example. i myself have wandered down that > > path. not saying Manoj is doing this at all, because i completely > > understand the wider/deeper aspects of this pov as well. but the > > dangers are there, and the unfortunate result is wasted time. > > > > s > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Dear Manoj, > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > IMHO, it depends on your starting point. If you start > > > with, "Ultimately it is the Divine Play. Everything that happens > > is > > > God's will, and so even if I am doing sadhana it is God's will > and > > > Grace" , no one can deny it. > > > > > > My starting point is of someone wanting to know more about myself > > > and my relationship to God. At this point, only I have to make > the > > > efforts to clear the way. Help comes often, but it is upto me to > > > make the commitment with the faith that my goal WILL be realised > > if > > > only I keep on with my sadhana ! > > > > > > Nice discussion. Jai Maa ! > > > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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