Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 > > Excuse my naivity. This came up for me also during the Chandi class: What is the difference between goals and attachments? How do I know that what I ask for,in my ignorance, and lack of awareness, is not just having "new spiritual experiences" and is keeping me on the treadmill? I realize that the "little me" is supposed to die from practice. But how do I know? How do I know that "nirvana" is not just a more beautiful, and sublime "experience"? Why is this better than someone enjoying football,beer, and hot dogs? I'm reluctant to ask for anything. How does one ask without the asking begetting more asking? And if no "goals"-how to continue? And yet I still ask. For me, I guess this stuff boils down to fear of totally trusting God and completely placing myself in His/Her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Dear Larry, You raise a very good question - What is that one should ask for ? I remember asking this question to Shree Maa once upon a long time ago . "Why shouldnt I just pray - 'Dear God give me a car ? or whatever else I want ?" And She said "If you ask for a car, ask God to be the driver". My understanding is - you can ask for ANYTHING - so long as you tack the clause - and I want YOU God to be a part of whatever I ask for. And that motive , that intent will purify our goals. My two cents ... I'd be interested to know what others think. JAI MAA Latha , larry burns <isaliveart> wrote: > > > > Excuse my naivity. This came up for me also during the Chandi class: > > What is the difference between goals and attachments? > > How do I know that what I ask for,in my ignorance, and lack of > awareness, is not just having "new spiritual experiences" and is > keeping me on the treadmill? > > I realize that the "little me" is supposed to die from practice. But > how do I know? How do I know that "nirvana" is not just a more > beautiful, and sublime "experience"? Why is this better than someone > enjoying football,beer, and hot dogs? > > I'm reluctant to ask for anything. How does one ask without the asking > begetting more asking? > And if no "goals"-how to continue? And yet I still ask. > > For me, I guess this stuff boils down to fear of totally trusting God > and completely placing myself in His/Her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 this is so interesting, larry and latha. the first time i ever prayed for anything was when my wife and daughter were in the hospital with an emergency c-section. i was not in the habit of praying for anything, ever. they did make it through that difficult day. then i read from shivapuri baba, the goal is to know god. so i did not pray for this, but contemplated that. he also said that a living guru is necessary. this i prayed for, after not praying for 23 years. and guess what. maa showed up. 2 out of 2! when i think about praying ... or when i try and pray ... i, like larry, have a difficult time. i cannot easily specify what i want. recently i tried praying for my daughter to be protected, and for initiation from the gurus. the closer i get to that space i pray from, the harder it is to ask for myself. it is like, the deeper i go, the more it is clear that i don't want this or that. so i asked only for elana. plus, i am afraid to ask for something that involves a commitment from someone else, not sure if that is "right" or not. there is this sense of getting closer and closer to "me" in prayer, but it is not the selfish me. before i heard of shree maa, i would cry out GOD WHERE ARE YOU? i don't know if this qualifies as a prayer, more like a cry for divine intervention. :-) recently maa said, i should pray for my daughter, so i will that. sometimes i think, god make me of some use, before i go, make me wise so people see you wherever i walk, and they will always allocate that seeing to you ... or ... just make me see, make me understand, make me at peace so i can love without limits and without ego. just make me at peace and filled with real devotion, all else will surely follow from that. steve , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Larry, > > You raise a very good question - What is that one should ask for ? > > I remember asking this question to Shree Maa once upon a long time > ago . "Why shouldnt I just pray - 'Dear God give me a car ? or > whatever else I want ?" > > And She said "If you ask for a car, ask God to be the driver". > > My understanding is - you can ask for ANYTHING - so long as you tack > the clause - and I want YOU God to be a part of whatever I ask for. > > And that motive , that intent will purify our goals. > > My two cents ... > I'd be interested to know what others think. > > JAI MAA > Latha , larry burns <isaliveart> > wrote: > > > > > > Excuse my naivity. This came up for me also during the Chandi > class: > > > > What is the difference between goals and attachments? > > > > How do I know that what I ask for,in my ignorance, and lack of > > awareness, is not just having "new spiritual experiences" and is > > keeping me on the treadmill? > > > > I realize that the "little me" is supposed to die from practice. > But > > how do I know? How do I know that "nirvana" is not just a more > > beautiful, and sublime "experience"? Why is this better than > someone > > enjoying football,beer, and hot dogs? > > > > I'm reluctant to ask for anything. How does one ask without the > asking > > begetting more asking? > > And if no "goals"-how to continue? And yet I still ask. > > > > For me, I guess this stuff boils down to fear of totally trusting > God > > and completely placing myself in His/Her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Larry, I think goals are different from attachments. Certainly one may be attached to one's goals, but on closer inspection I think it is generally more true that we formulate our goals based upon what we want to achieve from them. In other words, we attach ourselves to the objects of our desires, then we set out to get them. The goals themselves are simply a means to an end. So, what do you want from God? If the objects of this world will serve to fulfill your inner longing for completion, you have no need for sadhana. If, on the other hand, you find yourself dissatisfied with the constant seesaw of pleasure and pain, want and satiation, with spending life in the pursuit of things that will stay behind when it is time to go, and then will turn to dust, then some kind of sadhana is the only way. All sadhana is a form of worship, and Swamiji says worship is about a love affair with God. When one becomes attached to the presence of one's Beloved in one's heart, the goal naturally takes shape. Feel that presence and nurture it with divine actions. She will be pleased. The objects of the world will never satisfy you. Only divine love brings lasting satisfaction. Only sadhana will make you divine. Chris , larry burns <isaliveart> wrote: > > > > Excuse my naivity. This came up for me also during the Chandi class: > > What is the difference between goals and attachments? > > How do I know that what I ask for,in my ignorance, and lack of > awareness, is not just having "new spiritual experiences" and is > keeping me on the treadmill? > > I realize that the "little me" is supposed to die from practice. But > how do I know? How do I know that "nirvana" is not just a more > beautiful, and sublime "experience"? Why is this better than someone > enjoying football,beer, and hot dogs? > > I'm reluctant to ask for anything. How does one ask without the asking > begetting more asking? > And if no "goals"-how to continue? And yet I still ask. > > For me, I guess this stuff boils down to fear of totally trusting God > and completely placing myself in His/Her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks for your reply. I guess my question is why ask for anything? Why not just serve? Doesn't asking just create more asking? Isn't asking for God to be the driver just another desire? I love God, and want the same things everyone else does. I just question my own fallibility, what I dream up. In my best moments, I feel relieved to use something like the St. Franciss prayer: "Lord, make me a channel for Thy peace"-,etc where he humbly asks to only selflessly serve God I understand, I think Shree Maa's suggestion as being to invoke God activity to be Present at this moment and surrender. But when I step out from myself and look at what I'm doing, it's still seems to be the same old conundrum. This is tricky business for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Wonderful answer, Chris. Thank you. "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 > Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:13:42 -0000 Re: Goals Larry, I think goals are different from attachments. Certainly one may be attached to one's goals, but on closer inspection I think it is generally more true that we formulate our goals based upon what we want to achieve from them. In other words, we attach ourselves to the objects of our desires, then we set out to get them. The goals themselves are simply a means to an end. So, what do you want from God? If the objects of this world will serve to fulfill your inner longing for completion, you have no need for sadhana. If, on the other hand, you find yourself dissatisfied with the constant seesaw of pleasure and pain, want and satiation, with spending life in the pursuit of things that will stay behind when it is time to go, and then will turn to dust, then some kind of sadhana is the only way. All sadhana is a form of worship, and Swamiji says worship is about a love affair with God. When one becomes attached to the presence of one's Beloved in one's heart, the goal naturally takes shape. Feel that presence and nurture it with divine actions. She will be pleased. The objects of the world will never satisfy you. Only divine love brings lasting satisfaction. Only sadhana will make you divine. Chris , larry burns <isaliveart> wrote: > > > > Excuse my naivity. This came up for me also during the Chandi class: > > What is the difference between goals and attachments? > > How do I know that what I ask for,in my ignorance, and lack of > awareness, is not just having "new spiritual experiences" and is > keeping me on the treadmill? > > I realize that the "little me" is supposed to die from practice. But > how do I know? How do I know that "nirvana" is not just a more > beautiful, and sublime "experience"? Why is this better than someone > enjoying football,beer, and hot dogs? > > I'm reluctant to ask for anything. How does one ask without the asking > begetting more asking? > And if no "goals"-how to continue? And yet I still ask. > > For me, I guess this stuff boils down to fear of totally trusting God > and completely placing myself in His/Her hands. / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Larry, There is nothing wrong in praying for material benefits as long as you are attached to the world. But we don't have the right to complain when God doesn't grant it. Moreover we should not pray ONLY for material objects as they are transitory. As you suggested, if you can just LOVE God without asking for anything, then that's the highest state. When Swami Vivekananda was going through hardships for the lack of a job and money, in his pre monastic life, he asked Thakur to pray for him to the Divine Mother for a job and money. Thakur told him that he doesn't pray Mother for such petty things and asked Naren to pray by himself to the Mother. So, Naren approached the Mother's image in the temple and asked her for pure devotion and discrimination. He came back to Thakur, who inquired, "Did you ask her?". Naren told that he forgot to ask for a job and money and Thakur told him to go again and ask. Naren made it a point to remember to ask her his wants. But, when he stood before Mother he again asked for devotion and discirmination. When he returned to Thakur, he scolded Naren, again, for forgetting to ask for his wants and urged him to try for the third time. Determined, Naren stood before the Mother and coudln't ask for anything except devotion and discrimination. He then realized that Thakur was influencing his mind and was stopping him from asking for material wants. He ran back to Thakur and fell at his feet. Thakur told him that asking God ONLY for material wants is like going to a king and asking him for few vegetables. Ask him for pure devotion and discrimination and don't ask ONLY material gifts. As Sri Sankaracharya prays to Mother Annapurna "JNANA VAIRAGYA SIDDHARYARTHAM BHISHAAM DEHI CHA PARVATI" (I beg for true knowledge and discrimination from you, Mother Parvati), we should also ask for these more than we pester her for material wants. Pranams, Prasad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Thanks Prasad, this is great story .You've so elegantly shown how to ask. On Mar 17, 2004, at 10:15 AM, prasad pratapa wrote: > Larry, > There is nothing wrong in praying for material > benefits as long as you are attached to the world. > But we don't have the right to complain when God > doesn't grant it. Moreover we should not pray ONLY > for material objects as they are transitory. As you > suggested, if you can just LOVE God without asking for > anything, then that's the highest state. > When Swami Vivekananda was going through hardships > for the lack of a job and money, in his pre monastic > life, he asked Thakur to pray for him to the Divine > Mother for a job and money. Thakur told him that he > doesn't pray Mother for such petty things and asked > Naren to pray by himself to the Mother. So, Naren > approached the Mother's image in the temple and asked > her for pure devotion and discrimination. He came > back to Thakur, who inquired, "Did you ask her?". > Naren told that he forgot to ask for a job and money > and Thakur told him to go again and ask. Naren made > it a point to remember to ask her his wants. But, when > he stood before Mother he again asked for devotion and > discirmination. When he returned to Thakur, he > scolded Naren, again, for forgetting to ask for his > wants and urged him to try for the third time. > Determined, Naren stood before the Mother and coudln't > ask for anything except devotion and discrimination. > He then realized that Thakur was influencing his mind > and was stopping him from asking for material wants. > He ran back to Thakur and fell at his feet. Thakur > told him that asking God ONLY for material wants is > like going to a king and asking him for few > vegetables. Ask him for pure devotion and > discrimination and don't ask ONLY material gifts. As > Sri Sankaracharya prays to Mother Annapurna "JNANA > VAIRAGYA SIDDHARYARTHAM BHISHAAM DEHI CHA PARVATI" (I > beg for true knowledge and discrimination from you, > Mother Parvati), we should also ask for these more > than we pester her for material wants. > > Pranams, > Prasad. > > > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Your use of is subject to the > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Prasad, Thank you for your response describing the optimal manner of asking/praying--it was wonderful! Your first paragraph pretty well says it all: There is nothing wrong in praying for materialbenefits as long as you are attached to the world. But we don't have the right to complain when Goddoesn't grant it. Moreover we should not pray ONLYfor material objects as they are transitory. As yousuggested, if you can just LOVE God without asking foranything, then that's the highest state. Best wishes and warmest regards, Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Prasad, I enjoy hearing about the sages. Thanks. Chris , prasad pratapa <pratapaprasad> wrote: > Larry, > There is nothing wrong in praying for material > benefits as long as you are attached to the world. > But we don't have the right to complain when God > doesn't grant it. Moreover we should not pray ONLY > for material objects as they are transitory. As you > suggested, if you can just LOVE God without asking for > anything, then that's the highest state. > When Swami Vivekananda was going through hardships > for the lack of a job and money, in his pre monastic > life, he asked Thakur to pray for him to the Divine > Mother for a job and money. Thakur told him that he > doesn't pray Mother for such petty things and asked > Naren to pray by himself to the Mother. So, Naren > approached the Mother's image in the temple and asked > her for pure devotion and discrimination. He came > back to Thakur, who inquired, "Did you ask her?". > Naren told that he forgot to ask for a job and money > and Thakur told him to go again and ask. Naren made > it a point to remember to ask her his wants. But, when > he stood before Mother he again asked for devotion and > discirmination. When he returned to Thakur, he > scolded Naren, again, for forgetting to ask for his > wants and urged him to try for the third time. > Determined, Naren stood before the Mother and coudln't > ask for anything except devotion and discrimination. > He then realized that Thakur was influencing his mind > and was stopping him from asking for material wants. > He ran back to Thakur and fell at his feet. Thakur > told him that asking God ONLY for material wants is > like going to a king and asking him for few > vegetables. Ask him for pure devotion and > discrimination and don't ask ONLY material gifts. As > Sri Sankaracharya prays to Mother Annapurna "JNANA > VAIRAGYA SIDDHARYARTHAM BHISHAAM DEHI CHA PARVATI" (I > beg for true knowledge and discrimination from you, > Mother Parvati), we should also ask for these more > than we pester her for material wants. > > Pranams, > Prasad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Srini said : > > Our Beloved Swamiji told me praying to Goddess Lakshmi will remove > confusion about Goals. If you present your best goal to Her, She > will make it happen. > Dear Srini, Thank you for sharing this. During the Fall Navaratri, on the eighth day, Swamiji asks us to write our goals and he takes the papers and offers them to Lakshmi at our altar. Lakshmi Mata ki JAI Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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