Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Thank you Brian, this is a great kindness and appreciated. Maureen Maureen, I offer another perspective. It is a perspective I gained through abuse from another's emotions. Everyone in life is guru, and everyone is disiple. We are all learning and we are all teaching. The question we have to ask ourselves is, "What am I teaching? And what do I wish to learn?" Everyone we meet offers a reflection of ourselves, IN THE DEEPEST POSSIBLE SENSE. We literally attract to ourselves those who would teach us most about ourselves and visa versa. I have heard stories about abusive "gurus," people who seem more driven by fear than by anything else, and they do what they do not because it helps others but because it helps them feel more safe and they think that teaching that safety validates their needs for safety. Heck most modern religions are based on that. I had an abusive guru in my life. I chose her to be my guru, even though I didn't call her guru, I called her wife. I looked up to her and to many of her qualities, I thought those qualities were something I should have, something that should be part of me. Ultimately I realized that those qualities existed in her for exactly the same reason they lacked in me. And I realized that we weren't so different, she and I. I was so afraid that I stayed in my shell, and she was so affraid she tried to expand her shell to encompass everything around her. When confronted with a person who presses our buttons, that is to say triggers our fears, angers, anxieties, and desires, it is very easy to react and teach them that they succeeded, give them the response they expected, but I have decided for myself that I will do everything in my power to not react, to teach non-reaction, to teach surrender, to teach acceptance, to teach understanding, love, and caring. I want the world to be a place of peace, not of reaction. I made that choice long before I knew the cost of that choice. I found out I am not capable of not reacting. That I was nothing more than a bundle of reactions that I identify with and I did not want to give them up. To give them up I had to form a relationship with the being who doesn't react, who acts decisively for the highest good. She has many names, lets just call her Maa. Once I realized she held the key, I started emulating her. I practiced not showing my reactions at first, and then over time the reactions stopped for many things, for many of the bigger buttons. I became a well trained mind. That's not enough for me, I'm a good emulator, but I want more. In reality no one does anyone else any harm. They merely hurt themselves and teach others to do the same. If this person hurt you, then realize that maybe you let him hurt you through your reaction to him. Maybe he could affect you only because you and he share something in common. If from this experience you learned to recognize what it is in you that learned to be hurt by him, then maybe you can unlearn that part of yourself and heal over an old wound. Even though the experience was negative, he did bring you closer to goddess, and you did learn. If nothing else you learned you are "not that" and that's one step closer toward the truth. Mantras are given by god. Mantras are pure and impossible to spoil. The only thing that can spoil is mind, becaues it can associate the mantra with the man. There's a great mantra to erase that association. OM AIM HRIM KLIM CHAMUDAYE VICHE. I suggest you build a fire, say that mantra with a SWAHA at the end 1008 times, and throw all your images of that man into the fire with each piece of rice on each swaha. Let yourself feel. Let yourself cry. Let yourself realize that the past is gone, the mind doesn't need to hang on to it, and Chandi will erase your images of the man and let your mind see the connection between the mantra OM NAMA SHIVAYA and the consciousness of infinite goodness. That connection exists, the one between the mantra and the man is false a mental affliction that Maa can tear apart for you. I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries. I have only the best of intentions. Brian No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com / Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 hi brian this is all so, what you say. and swamiji's response was 100% helpful. there is an entirely other aspect on this i wish to interject, although it might be unpopular. it is this: there are people who are self-titled gurus. they do things in the name of god that are extremely damaging to seekers who have not matured in their discrimination. and what seeker has completely matured? this is damaging to the dharma, as it is understood by human beings. we are somewhat in the position of arjuna. we must act, we must be efficient, we must understand our own goals. there are times, when, the best healing is entirely internal. there are rare times [fortunately] when human beings must speak out. again, arjuna was told by krishna, fight. we must not be pacifists 100% of the time, the snake can also hiss if it is a matter of being able to practice or not. everything i say, almost all the time, is based on personal experience. so i am not saying, we must not forgive and heal and all that ... i am saying there are asuric forces that have wriggled down [or up] to the field of our actual human social and survival context, and sometimes people have to deal with them very specifically ... the kind of individuals attach themselves to the most personal of aspect: pocketbook; sexuality; confidence; information regarding advaita, vedanta, etc. by nature i never polarize, and if i did not have a taste of this myself ... i would never expect to hear myself say things like "asuric forces" as related to an actual person ... sounds too much like the devil for my taste. the actuality is, there are people with far more intent to harm, and willingness to use and twist others heart and psyche -- for what? their own power and amusement? - - than you, or i, or maureen, could ever conceive of. the sadhu must be: smart; compassionate, intelligent; willing; wise. resourceful, intuitive; a warrior; a lover. she must be able to both heal internally, and protect the temple externally. the only reason i mention any of this is that as a spiritual person we must be aware of the world's nature, and never be naive OR bitter, damaged, and confused. tall order! but we can do it! but it takes all of us, mind as well as the heart. om tat sat, i love you all. steve , "Brian McKee" <brian@s...> wrote: > Maureen, > I offer another perspective. It is a perspective I gained through abuse from another's emotions. > Everyone in life is guru, and everyone is disiple. We are all learning and we are all teaching. > The question we have to ask ourselves is, "What am I teaching? And what do I wish to learn?" > Everyone we meet offers a reflection of ourselves, IN THE DEEPEST POSSIBLE SENSE. We literally attract to ourselves those who would teach us most about ourselves and visa versa. > I have heard stories about abusive "gurus," people who seem more driven by fear than by anything else, and they do what they do not because it helps others but because it helps them feel more safe and they think that teaching that safety validates their needs for safety. Heck most modern religions are based on that. > I had an abusive guru in my life. I chose her to be my guru, even though I didn't call her guru, I called her wife. I looked up to her and to many of her qualities, I thought those qualities were something I should have, something that should be part of me. Ultimately I realized that those qualities existed in her for exactly the same reason they lacked in me. And I realized that we weren't so different, she and I. I was so afraid that I stayed in my shell, and she was so affraid she tried to expand her shell to encompass everything around her. > When confronted with a person who presses our buttons, that is to say triggers our fears, angers, anxieties, and desires, it is very easy to react and teach them that they succeeded, give them the response they expected, but I have decided for myself that I will do everything in my power to not react, to teach non-reaction, to teach surrender, to teach acceptance, to teach understanding, love, and caring. I want the world to be a place of peace, not of reaction. > I made that choice long before I knew the cost of that choice. I found out I am not capable of not reacting. That I was nothing more than a bundle of reactions that I identify with and I did not want to give them up. To give them up I had to form a relationship with the being who doesn't react, who acts decisively for the highest good. She has many names, lets just call her Maa. > Once I realized she held the key, I started emulating her. I practiced not showing my reactions at first, and then over time the reactions stopped for many things, for many of the bigger buttons. I became a well trained mind. > That's not enough for me, I'm a good emulator, but I want more. > In reality no one does anyone else any harm. They merely hurt themselves and teach others to do the same. If this person hurt you, then realize that maybe you let him hurt you through your reaction to him. Maybe he could affect you only because you and he share something in common. If from this experience you learned to recognize what it is in you that learned to be hurt by him, then maybe you can unlearn that part of yourself and heal over an old wound. > Even though the experience was negative, he did bring you closer to goddess, and you did learn. If nothing else you learned you are "not that" and that's one step closer toward the truth. > Mantras are given by god. Mantras are pure and impossible to spoil. The only thing that can spoil is mind, becaues it can associate the mantra with the man. There's a great mantra to erase that association. OM AIM HRIM KLIM CHAMUDAYE VICHE. I suggest you build a fire, say that mantra with a SWAHA at the end 1008 times, and throw all your images of that man into the fire with each piece of rice on each swaha. Let yourself feel. Let yourself cry. Let yourself realize that the past is gone, the mind doesn't need to hang on to it, and Chandi will erase your images of the man and let your mind see the connection between the mantra OM NAMA SHIVAYA and the consciousness of infinite goodness. That connection exists, the one between the mantra and the man is false a mental affliction that Maa can tear apart for you. > I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries. I have only the best of intentions. > Brian > > > _____________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 te: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:52:48 -0000 Re: For Maureenhi brianthis is all so, what you say. and swamiji's response was 100% helpful.there is an entirely other aspect on this i wish to interject, although it might be unpopular. it is this:there are people who are self-titled gurus. they do things in the name of god that are extremely damaging to seekers who have not matured in their discrimination. and what seeker has completely matured?this is damaging to the dharma, as it is understood by human beings.we are somewhat in the position of arjuna. we must act, we must be efficient, we must understand our own goals.there are times, when, the best healing is entirely internal.there are rare times [fortunately] when human beings must speak out. again, arjuna was told by krishna, fight. we must not be pacifists 100% of the time, the snake can also hiss if it is a matter of being able to practice or not.everything i say, almost all the time, is based on personal experience. so i am not saying, we must not forgive and heal and all that ... i am saying there are asuric forces that have wriggled down [or up] to the field of our actual human social and survival context, and sometimes people have to deal with them very specifically ... the kind of individuals attach themselves to the most personal of aspect: pocketbook; sexuality; confidence; information regarding advaita, vedanta, etc.by nature i never polarize, and if i did not have a taste of this myself ... i would never expect to hear myself say things like "asuric forces" as related to an actual person ... sounds too much like the devil for my taste. the actuality is, there are people with far more intent to harm, and willingness to use and twist others heart and psyche -- for what? their own power and amusement? -- than you, or i, or maureen, could ever conceive of.the sadhu must be: smart; compassionate, intelligent; willing; wise. resourceful, intuitive; a warrior; a lover. she must be able to both heal internally, and protect the temple externally.the only reason i mention any of this is that as a spiritual person we must be aware of the world's nature, and never be naive OR bitter, damaged, and confused. tall order! but we can do it! but it takes all of us, mind as well as the heart.om tat sat, i love you all.steve--- In , "Brian McKee" wrote:> Maureen,> I offer another perspective. It is a perspective I gained through abuse from another's emotions.> Everyone in life is guru, and everyone is disiple. We are all learning and we are all teaching.> The question we have to ask ourselves is, "What am I teaching? And what do I wish to learn?"> Everyone we meet offers a reflection of ourselves, IN THE DEEPEST POSSIBLE SENSE. We literally attract to ourselves those who would teach us most about ourselves and visa versa.> I have heard stories about abusive "gurus," people who seem more driven by fear than by anything else, and they do what they do not because it helps others but because it helps them feel more safe and they think that teaching that safety validates their needs for safety. Heck most modern religions are based on that.> I had an abusive guru in my life. I chose her to be my guru, even though I didn't call her guru, I called her wife. I looked up to her and to many of her qualities, I thought those qualities were something I should have, something that should be part of me. Ultimately I realized that those qualities existed in her for exactly the same reason they lacked in me. And I realized that we weren't so different, she and I. I was so afraid that I stayed in my shell, and she was so affraid she tried to expand her shell to encompass everything around her.> When confronted with a person who presses our buttons, that is to say triggers our fears, angers, anxieties, and desires, it is very easy to react and teach them that they succeeded, give them the response they expected, but I have decided for myself that I will do everything in my power to not react, to teach non-reaction, to teach surrender, to teach acceptance, to teach understanding, love, and caring. I want the world to be a place of peace, not of reaction.> I made that choice long before I knew the cost of that choice. I found out I am not capable of not reacting. That I was nothing more than a bundle of reactions that I identify with and I did not want to give them up. To give them up I had to form a relationship with the being who doesn't react, who acts decisively for the highest good. She has many names, lets just call her Maa.> Once I realized she held the key, I started emulating her. I practiced not showing my reactions at first, and then over time the reactions stopped for many things, for many of the bigger buttons. I became a well trained mind.> That's not enough for me, I'm a good emulator, but I want more.> In reality no one does anyone else any harm. They merely hurt themselves and teach others to do the same. If this person hurt you, then realize that maybe you let him hurt you through your reaction to him. Maybe he could affect you only because you and he share something in common. If from this experience you learned to recognize what it is in you that learned to be hurt by him, then maybe you can unlearn that part of yourself and heal over an old wound.> Even though the experience was negative, he did bring you closer to goddess, and you did learn. If nothing else you learned you are "not that" and that's one step closer toward the truth.> Mantras are given by god. Mantras are pure and impossible to spoil. The only thing that can spoil is mind, becaues it can associate the mantra with the man. There's a great mantra to erase that association. OM AIM HRIM KLIM CHAMUDAYE VICHE. I suggest you build a fire, say that mantra with a SWAHA at the end 1008 times, and throw all your images of that man into the fire with each piece of rice on each swaha. Let yourself feel. Let yourself cry. Let yourself realize that the past is gone, the mind doesn't need to hang on to it, and Chandi will erase your images of the man and let your mind see the connection between the mantra OM NAMA SHIVAYA and the consciousness of infinite goodness. That connection exists, the one between the mantra and the man is false a mental affliction that Maa can tear apart for you.> I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries. I have only the best of intentions.> Brian> > > _____________> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.> Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:/<*> To from this group, send an email to:<*> Your use of Groups is subject to:No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 this is all so. om shalom! meet mike, he posted below, he's the person who "introduced" me to shree maa, via a site devoted to the asuric guru. god is all. when seen from mind, this becomes a deflated non- dualism. so we have infinfite GOODNESS. such a brave place to stand from which to see all of this world. we can see it all as good, or as good and bad, or as children. this is such a incredible viewpoint, i am still marveling at its richness and depth. truly, all is this one in action with herself. far far beyond mind's ability to grasp. will read your entire post more when i have a bit more time, off to work now ... peace, steve , "Brian McKee" <brian@s...> wrote: > Hi Steve, As hard as it is for us to admit it, everything is part of Mother's play, mother's drama. Everyone has a part to perform and everyone must perform his part. What they do may seem negative and wrong to us, but to mother it is for the highest good. It is accurate for us to look at it from our perspective and think, "I do not wish to be that way," but it is also accurate to look at it from mother's perspective and say, "see how well he teaches other to not be that way." Niti Niti. I have realized that when I judge others I am committing a wrong. When I judge their actions -- as long as I'm not reacting to their actions -- I am just using my mind's ability to discriminate. However, mother exists beyond the mind and mother loves everyone, period. And she is who I wish to emulate, who's attention I wish to get, and who's grace I wish to have bestowed upon me. We all have witnessed the results of the asuras. We all are living results of the asuras. Asuras exist because they insure survival amongst the animals. It is only through consciousness that we can rise above them and learn to love them for what they truly are, "iti iti." I have met negative people. And I have found that if I hiss they may go away, they may not. But if I love them like goddess does, and they can't stand it, they will go away confused and dazed that they couldn't manipulate me with their button pressing. Or they will respond to the love and realize that they don't need to press buttons to get safe responses, that they can simply be themselves and get the love they deserve, the love they could feel on the inside if they knew it. I read this book by this psychologist, I'm not one for titles and authors, I never remember sources, all I remember is perspective of truth and perspective of truth is all we have here, all mother can offer us in reality (unless we turn inward). In the book, the psychologist author explains how he put people into deep states of hypnotism and spoke directly to their higher selves. The higher selves constantly warned him to stop interpreting their words in "human" terms, and he constantly failed in that. However, even though he humanized their answers to his questions I saw the truth, the truth is: souls want experience. They want to live every possible combination. The spiritual path is merely one of the paths on which we walk. We all live as the thief, we all live as the tree, we all live as the sadhu. We all live to hurt others, we all live to heal others. We cannot judge anyone because we all have been or will be in their shoes. We have all been or will be the fallen spiritual teacher, the man who saves many but loses himself in the process. We all have been the high guru who fell flat on his face when confronted with unforseen desire. We all have been the harsh teacher, the sadistic dentist, and the child who only wanted love for all the badness he created. I know I have been nasty. I know I have been evil. I know I have been all these things to learn what its like to be those things. I also know I accepted the karma and I have done the karma and I have come full circle. I cannot judge them their ignorance, or their arrogance because I have been that ignorant and arrogant even in this life time.So ask yourself why you care who they are. The answer may shock you.With sincere love and devotion, Brian"In the begining, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy Radio Program.--- On Tue 03/30, bingo_ridley < sconnor@a... > wrote:bingo_ridley [ sconnor@a...]: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:52:48 -0000 Re: For Maureenhi brianthis is all so, what you say. and swamiji's response was 100% helpful.there is an entirely other aspect on this i wish to interject, although it might be unpopular. it is this:there are people who are self-titled gurus. they do things in the name of god that are extremely damaging to seekers who have not m > atured in their discrimination. and what seeker has completely matured?this is damaging to the dharma, as it is understood by human beings.we are somewhat in the position of arjuna. we must act, we must be efficient, we must understand our own goals.there are times, when, the best healing is entirely internal.there are rare times [fortunately] when human beings must speak out. again, arjuna was told by krishna, fight. we must not be pacifists 100% of the time, the snake can also hiss if it is a matter of being able to practice or not.everything i say, almost all the time, is based on personal experience. so i am not saying, we must not forgive and heal and all that ... i am saying there are asuric forces that have wriggled down [or up] to the field of our actual human social and survival context, and sometimes people have to deal with them very specifically ... the kind of individuals attach themselves to the most personal of aspect: pocketbook; sexuality; confidence; information regarding advaita, vedanta, etc.by nature i never polarize, and if i did not have a taste of this myself ... i would never expect to hear myself say things like "asuric forces" as related to an actual person ... sounds too much like the devil for my taste. the actuality is, there are people with far more intent to harm, and willingness to use and twist others heart and psyche -- for what? their own power and amusement? -- than you, or i, or maureen, could ever conceive of.the sadhu must be: smart; compassionate, intelligent; willing; wise. resourceful, intuitive; a warrior; a lover. she must be able to both heal internally, and protect the temple externally.the only reason i mention any of this is that as a spiritual person we must be aware of the world's nature, and never be naive OR bitter, damaged, and confused. tall order! but we can do it! but it takes all of us, mind as well as the heart.om tat sat, i love you all.steve--- In , "Brian McKee" wrote:> Maureen,> I offer another perspective. It is a perspective I gained through abuse from another's emotions.> Everyone in life is guru, and everyone is disiple. We are all learning and we are all teaching.> The question we have to ask ourselves is, "What am I teaching? And what do I wish to learn?"> Everyone we meet offers a reflection of ourselves, IN THE DEEPEST POSSIBLE SENSE. We literally attract to ourselves those who would teach us most about ourselves and visa versa.> I have heard stories about abusive "gurus," people who seem more driven by fear than by anything else, and they do what they do not because it helps others but because it helps them feel more safe and they think that teaching that safety validates their needs for safety. Heck most modern religions are based on that.> I had an abusive guru in my life. I chose her to be my guru, even though I didn't call her guru, I called her wife. I looked up to her and to many of her qualities, I thought those qualities were something I should have, something that should be part of me. Ultimately I realized that those qualities existed in her for exactly the same reason they lacked in me. And I realized that we weren't so different, she and I. I was so afraid that I stayed in my shell, and she was so affraid she tried to expand her shell to encompass everything around her.> When confronted with a person who presses our buttons, that is to say triggers our fears, angers, anxieties, and desires, it is very easy to react and teach them that they succeeded, give them the response they expected, but I have decided for myself that I will do everything in my power to not react, to teach non-reaction, to teach surrender, to teach acceptance, to teach understanding, love, and caring. I want the world to be a place of peace, not of reaction.> I made that choice long before I knew the cost of that choice. I found out I am not capable of not reacting. That I was nothing more than a bundle of reactions that I identify with and I did not want to give them up. To give them up I had to form a relationsh > ip with the being who doesn't react, who acts decisively for the highest good. She has many names, lets just call her Maa.> Once I realized she held the key, I started emulating her. I practiced not showing my reactions at first, and then over time the reactions stopped for many things, for many of the bigger buttons. I became a well trained mind.> That's not enough for me, I'm a good emulator, but I want more.> In reality no one does anyone else any harm. They merely hurt themselves and teach others to do the same. If this person hurt you, then realize that maybe you let him hurt you through your reaction to him. Maybe he could affect you only because you and he share something in common. If from this experience you learned to recognize what it is in you that learned to be hurt by him, then maybe you can unlearn that part of yourself and heal over an old wound.> Even though the experience was negative, he did bring you closer to goddess, and you did learn. If nothing else you learned you are "not that" and that's one step closer toward the truth.> Mantras are given by god. Mantras are pure and impossible to spoil. The only thing that can spoil is mind, becaues it can associate the mantra with the man. There's a great mantra to erase that association. OM AIM HRIM KLIM CHAMUDAYE VICHE. I suggest you build a fire, say that mantra with a SWAHA at the end 1008 times, and throw all your images of that man into the fire with each piece of rice on each swaha. Let yourself feel. Let yourself cry. Let yourself realize that the past is gone, the mind doesn't need to hang on to it, and Chandi will erase your images of the man and let your mind see the connection between the mantra OM NAMA SHIVAYA and the consciousness of infinite goodness. That connection exists, the one between the mantra and the man is false a mental affliction that Maa can tear apart for you.> I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries. I have only the best of intentions.> Brian> > > _____________> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.> Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:/<*> To from this group, send an email to:- <*> Your use of is subject to: > > _____________ > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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