Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Dear Ruchi, Let us say that you are doing the mantra "Om Namah Shivaya" Then inhale slowly as much as you can and chant "Om...... Namah....Shivaya..." mentally for the length of the inhalation. Exhale through your mouth while chanting "Om Namah Shivaya" . It is the easiest and best to count with your fingers when chanting. To know more about this technique - please check the FAQ section at http://www.shreemaa.org/faq.htm for learning how to counting with your fingers. It is my observation, that one should easily be able to do atleast 10 Om Namah shivaya's during exhalation. If you find that 10 is problem, you could try with less - 5 maybe. But in normal circumstances you should be able to 10 and even 20 fairly easily, provided you are chanting as fast as you can. Chant the Om Namah Shivaya very quickly - do not give any musical tone to the chant. The less "music" you add, the faster your chant will be. You should be able to complete the 10 malas within 20 minutes. Once you have done 1 mala - 108 times, then put an object - a stone or a flower in front of you to keep count of the number of malas that you do. Best of luck, and do let us know how it goes. JAI MAA Latha , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Dear Latha and Group members, > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit texts but > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this topic > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain it > for a total novice. > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). Ater > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with the > mantra. > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the mantra > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my breathing. > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using the > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was very > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten malas. > > Please Advice > > Regards, > Ruchi > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > Chubby Kapolau > Dimple Cibukam > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > Dantaan within > Netra so blue > Lovely too > Maatri's pet > Is it you ? > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > yata yata yata > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > right! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and click > > on > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > see > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > /database > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > still > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > can. > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > list > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > Sanskrit > > > equivalent. > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > with > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the feet . > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > requesting > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of the > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > Latha Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Ruchi, I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi purification. In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and strengthen the nadis. In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in action. The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you need to gasp for air later. Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the process. When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine the degree of stillness. As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the chakras. As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity and I paid for it. I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this has been of some help to you. Chris , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Dear Latha and Group members, > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit texts but > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this topic > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain it > for a total novice. > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). Ater > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with the > mantra. > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the mantra > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my breathing. > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using the > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was very > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten malas. > > Please Advice > > Regards, > Ruchi > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > Chubby Kapolau > Dimple Cibukam > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > Dantaan within > Netra so blue > Lovely too > Maatri's pet > Is it you ? > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > yata yata yata > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > right! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and click > > on > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > see > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > /database > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > still > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > can. > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > list > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > Sanskrit > > > equivalent. > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > with > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the feet . > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > requesting > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of the > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > Latha Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Dear Chris and Latha, Thank you both so much for your replies. Its very illuminating and helpful. I think I was trying to hold my breath too much, that's why my daiphragm hurt and I was tired. Even when I was trying to do pranayama by breathing through my abdomen I think I was straining myself in the process. On top of that (I do not know if that was the effect of the japa )I was also having very vivid dreams. I have always noticed that when I have such dreams I walk like a jombie the entire next day. I will try to relax a little bit more. Sometimes when I sing the mantras I feel love and devotion, but I have noticed that when I start focusing on technique I feel the energy rise but it feels emotionally dry. It is a little easier for me to feel love and devotion and connected when I am singing or the other way round I sing when I feel love and devotion(Sometimes I even wonder if mother even wants to listen to my awful singing). So there are days when I just force myself to sit and my mind rattles on, then others when I feel close to maa. This also leaves me with a sense of despair thinking that I am not making any progress at all. That's why I wanted to integrate pranayam in the puja. What do you focus on when you do the japa ?? Many Thanks, Ruchi Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM Re: Pranayam .... Hi Ruchi, I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi purification. In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and strengthen the nadis. In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in action. The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you need to gasp for air later. Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the process. When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine the degree of stillness. As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the chakras. As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity and I paid for it. I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this has been of some help to you. Chris , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Dear Latha and Group members, > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit texts but > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this topic > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain it > for a total novice. > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). Ater > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with the > mantra. > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the mantra > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my breathing. > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using the > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was very > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten malas. > > Please Advice > > Regards, > Ruchi > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > Chubby Kapolau > Dimple Cibukam > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > Dantaan within > Netra so blue > Lovely too > Maatri's pet > Is it you ? > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > yata yata yata > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > right! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and click > > on > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > see > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > /database > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > still > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > can. > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > list > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > Sanskrit > > > equivalent. > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > with > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the feet . > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > requesting > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of the > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > Latha Links Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Chris, Thank you for this. I like how you mention the different obstructions and how they might manifest. I have definitely experienced some of this and yes, it does seem to pass. I think it was you who mentioned the yawning as one of these obstrucitons, too. Are these obstructions also called grantis (sp?)? Thanks for the info. Namaste, Lynne - Chris Kirner Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM Re: Pranayam .... Hi Ruchi,I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation.Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi purification.In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and strengthen the nadis.In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in action.The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you need to gasp for air later.Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the process. When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly.In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine the degree of stillness. As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the chakras.As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice.Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help.When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity and I paid for it.I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this has been of some help to you.Chris, "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote:> Dear Latha and Group members,> > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit texts but> I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this topic> has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain it> for a total novice.> When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting> changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). Ater> about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with the> mantra. > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning> whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the mantra> but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my breathing.> I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using the> right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was very> tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten malas.> > Please Advice> > Regards,> Ruchi> > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM> > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme> > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ?> > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ...> > Chubby Kapolau> Dimple Cibukam> Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare> Dantaan within> Netra so blue> Lovely too> Maatri's pet> Is it you ?> > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > yata yata yata > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > Hey,> > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights> > right!> > > > Chris> > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>> > wrote:> > > Namaste All,> > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and click> > on> > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to> see > > > the tables that I have created for our use.> > > > > > /database> > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry> > > across the different chapters that we go through.> > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am> > still> > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you> can. > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records).> > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the> list > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their> Sanskrit > > > equivalent.> > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts> with > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the feet .> > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > requesting > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of the> > > word to the meaning better.> > > > > > > > > Jai Maa.> > > Latha> > > > > > > Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Lynne, The granthis are really BIG obstructions, located in shushmna nadi. They are called Brahma, Rudra, and Vishnu, and are located at the opening of shushumna at the base of the tailbone, the anahata, and ajna chakra. They are said to comprise knots of karmas with their concommitant desires/aversions and emotional residue. Each is said to be different, and difficult to pass. Chris , "Lynne McKinnon" <omgirl@p...> wrote: > Chris, > Thank you for this. I like how you mention the different obstructions and how they might manifest. I have definitely experienced some of this and yes, it does seem to pass. I think it was you who mentioned the yawning as one of these obstrucitons, too. Are these obstructions also called grantis (sp?)? Thanks for the info. > Namaste, > Lynne > - > Chris Kirner > > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM > Re: Pranayam .... > > > Hi Ruchi, > > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. > > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification. > > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > strengthen the nadis. > > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action. > > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later. > > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. > > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine > the degree of stillness. > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras. > > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. > > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. > > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it. > > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this > has been of some help to you. > > Chris > > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > Dear Latha and Group members, > > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > texts but > > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > topic > > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > it > > for a total novice. > > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > Ater > > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > the > > mantra. > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version (meaning > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > mantra > > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > breathing. > > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > the > > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > very > > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > malas. > > > > Please Advice > > > > Regards, > > Ruchi > > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > > > Chubby Kapolau > > Dimple Cibukam > > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > > Dantaan within > > Netra so blue > > Lovely too > > Maatri's pet > > Is it you ? > > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > > right! > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > click > > > on > > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > > see > > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > > > /database > > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > > still > > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > > can. > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > > list > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > > Sanskrit > > > > equivalent. > > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > > with > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > feet . > > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > requesting > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > the > > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Thanks, Chris. Very clear info. and very helpful. I'm still yawning... Namaste, Lynne - Chris Kirner Friday, April 09, 2004 8:46 PM Re: Pranayam .... Lynne,The granthis are really BIG obstructions, located in shushmna nadi. They are called Brahma, Rudra, and Vishnu, and are located at the opening of shushumna at the base of the tailbone, the anahata, and ajna chakra. They are said to comprise knots of karmas with their concommitant desires/aversions and emotional residue. Each is said to be different, and difficult to pass. Chris --- In , "Lynne McKinnon" <omgirl@p...> wrote:> Chris,> Thank you for this. I like how you mention the different obstructions and how they might manifest. I have definitely experienced some of this and yes, it does seem to pass. I think it was you who mentioned the yawning as one of these obstrucitons, too. Are these obstructions also called grantis (sp?)? Thanks for the info.> Namaste,> Lynne> - > Chris Kirner > > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM> Re: Pranayam ....> > > Hi Ruchi,> > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation.> > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification.> > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > strengthen the nadis.> > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action.> > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later.> > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly.> > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine > the degree of stillness. > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras.> > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice.> > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help.> > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it.> > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this > has been of some help to you.> > Chris> > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote:> > Dear Latha and Group members,> > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > texts but> > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > topic> > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > it> > for a total novice.> > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting> > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > Ater> > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > the> > mantra. > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning> > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > mantra> > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > breathing.> > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > the> > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > very> > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > malas.> > > > Please Advice> > > > Regards,> > Ruchi> > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM> > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme> > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ?> > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ...> > > > Chubby Kapolau> > Dimple Cibukam> > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare> > Dantaan within> > Netra so blue> > Lovely too> > Maatri's pet> > Is it you ?> > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > > Hey,> > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights> > > right!> > > > > > Chris> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda>> > > wrote:> > > > Namaste All,> > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > click> > > on> > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to> > see > > > > the tables that I have created for our use.> > > > > > > > /database> > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry> > > > across the different chapters that we go through.> > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am> > > still> > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you> > can. > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records).> > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the> > list > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their> > Sanskrit > > > > equivalent.> > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts> > with > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > feet .> > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > requesting > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > the> > > > word to the meaning better.> > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa.> > > > Latha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:> /> > b.. > > > c.. Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Ruchi, This issue of dry technique vs. feeling devotion is a difficult one. For me, I probably focus too much on Shakti and not enough on devotion. I think there is a kind of balancing act that goes on, unless, that is, bhakti is your path (and perhaps even then, for there are stages, even in bhakti). You say that when you concentrate on technique you feel the energy rising. This is a good thing, but you're right, it is rather mechanical. It doesn't have to be entirely mechanical, but often it is. Many of the techniques of yoga can be thought of in terms of purifying austerities. They are like spiritual exercises, and just like when we work out at the gym, the body tires and the muscles feel weaker. The benefit is realized only after we leave the gym. It is often the same with spiritual practices. The dry focus on technique which allows a more profound experience of Shakti during practice allows the experience of increased purity of devotion later. This is not to say devotion should not be nurtured during the practice of technique as an effort to counteract the dryness. My gurudeva used to write that yoga practice should be greased with love. Tantra shines in this aspect of practice. Elaborate descriptions of the glories of the Goddess and the benefits of practiced are intersperced with technical practices designed to purify and deepen experience. You can try to do the same, if you feel dry at any particular time. Remember Her (or Him). Remember that your life force, your prana, is the Goddess herself, and it is that very prana which rises, in concert with the breath, during practice. In this sense, it is not just a practice, like pumping water from a well, but a relationship with Her. Remember also that purifying austerities are pleasing to both Her and the gurudeva. Being mindful of these things can help. About my experience...it is somewhere in the middle ground, I think, between being dead to mantra shakti and realizing the consciousness of a particular mantra shakti. There's a lot of ground to fall on there. If it is a new mantra, or one that I don't seem to have an immediate connection with, it is helpful for me to concentrate on the feeling of the meaning, or its purpose, while I do japa. It helps to establish a devotional connection with the mantra. After all, the mantra is Divine Mother too. Once a connection is established I pay attention to the changes the mantra makes in my consciousness, and try to focus on that. It is difficult to explain, but that seems to involve a slightly blissful vibration and a narrowing of focus. Then I kind of watch as the vibrations of the mantra increase the focus and the feeling of building energy. Usually, the energy wants to go somewhere, usually up, and I follow it. Generally, I try to get it as high as possible, but sometimes it wants to stay somewhere, anahata, for instance, and I let it. These past few years, my experience has mostly focused on the movement (or lack thereof) up my spine. I have so many obstructions that Shakti has trouble moving upward. So I feel a series of pulses during practice, as pressure builds in one place, then releases, moving upward. With each release there is an increase in one- pointedness and depth (there is also a nice blissful feeling). I do not generally experience the kind of intrusive running dialogue you described anymore. That is not to say my mind does not obstruct my concentration, but it is different than it was. Instead of being concerned with the external aspects of life it focuses on my experiences during practice. Always watching and commenting, "Oh, that was nice,What's happening?," and "Are we sure we want to go there?" That kind of thing. More subtle perhaps, but still a distraction. Well, I hope I have been of help. It's been nice talking with you. May Mother bless your sadhana. Chris , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Dear Chris and Latha, > Thank you both so much for your replies. Its very illuminating and > helpful. I think I was trying to hold my breath too much, that's why my > daiphragm hurt and I was tired. Even when I was trying to do pranayama > by breathing through my abdomen I think I was straining myself in the > process. On top of that (I do not know if that was the effect of the > japa )I was also having very vivid dreams. I have always noticed that > when I have such dreams I walk like a jombie the entire next day. I will > try to relax a little bit more. > > Sometimes when I sing the mantras I feel love and devotion, but I have > noticed that when I start focusing on technique I feel the energy rise > but it feels emotionally dry. It is a little easier for me to feel love > and devotion and connected when I am singing or the other way round I > sing when I feel love and devotion(Sometimes I even wonder if mother > even wants to listen to my awful singing). So there are days when I just > force myself to sit and my mind rattles on, then others when I feel > close to maa. This also leaves me with a sense of despair thinking that > I am not making any progress at all. That's why I wanted to integrate > pranayam in the puja. > What do you focus on when you do the japa ?? > > Many Thanks, > Ruchi > > > Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM > > Re: Pranayam .... > > > Hi Ruchi, > > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. > > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification. > > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > strengthen the nadis. > > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action. > > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later. > > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. > > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine > the degree of stillness. > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras. > > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. > > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. > > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it. > > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this > has been of some help to you. > > Chris > > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > Dear Latha and Group members, > > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > texts but > > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > topic > > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > it > > for a total novice. > > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > Ater > > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > the > > mantra. > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > mantra > > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > breathing. > > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > the > > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > very > > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > malas. > > > > Please Advice > > > > Regards, > > Ruchi > > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > > > Chubby Kapolau > > Dimple Cibukam > > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > > Dantaan within > > Netra so blue > > Lovely too > > Maatri's pet > > Is it you ? > > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > > right! > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > click > > > on > > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > > see > > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > > > /database > > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > > still > > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > > can. > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > > list > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > > Sanskrit > > > > equivalent. > > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > > with > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > feet . > > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > requesting > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > the > > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi Lynne, Not only am I yawning, but tears are streaming down my face and my nose starts running too. But it feels great!! Maureen - Lynne McKinnon Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:28 AM Re: Re: Pranayam .... Thanks, Chris. Very clear info. and very helpful. I'm still yawning... Namaste, Lynne - Chris Kirner Friday, April 09, 2004 8:46 PM Re: Pranayam .... Lynne,The granthis are really BIG obstructions, located in shushmna nadi. They are called Brahma, Rudra, and Vishnu, and are located at the opening of shushumna at the base of the tailbone, the anahata, and ajna chakra. They are said to comprise knots of karmas with their concommitant desires/aversions and emotional residue. Each is said to be different, and difficult to pass. Chris --- In , "Lynne McKinnon" <omgirl@p...> wrote:> Chris,> Thank you for this. I like how you mention the different obstructions and how they might manifest. I have definitely experienced some of this and yes, it does seem to pass. I think it was you who mentioned the yawning as one of these obstrucitons, too. Are these obstructions also called grantis (sp?)? Thanks for the info.> Namaste,> Lynne> - > Chris Kirner > > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM> Re: Pranayam ....> > > Hi Ruchi,> > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation.> > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification.> > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > strengthen the nadis.> > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action.> > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later.> > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly.> > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine > the degree of stillness. > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras.> > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice.> > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help.> > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it.> > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this > has been of some help to you.> > Chris> > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote:> > Dear Latha and Group members,> > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > texts but> > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > topic> > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > it> > for a total novice.> > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting> > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > Ater> > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > the> > mantra. > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning> > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > mantra> > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > breathing.> > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > the> > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > very> > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > malas.> > > > Please Advice> > > > Regards,> > Ruchi> > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM> > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme> > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ?> > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ...> > > > Chubby Kapolau> > Dimple Cibukam> > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare> > Dantaan within> > Netra so blue> > Lovely too> > Maatri's pet> > Is it you ?> > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > > Hey,> > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights> > > right!> > > > > > Chris> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda>> > > wrote:> > > > Namaste All,> > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > click> > > on> > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to> > see > > > > the tables that I have created for our use.> > > > > > > > /database> > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry> > > > across the different chapters that we go through.> > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am> > > still> > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you> > can. > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records).> > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the> > list > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their> > Sanskrit > > > > equivalent.> > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts> > with > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > feet .> > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > requesting > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > the> > > > word to the meaning better.> > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa.> > > > Latha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:> /> > b.. > > > c.. Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Lynne, If you're still yawning it's possible it's a nostril dominance thing. The left nostril connects with Ida (Irha) nadi, and the right with Pingala. Ida is the lunar nadi and Pingala the solar (also called Chandra and Surya). There is a natural progression of dominance from one nostril to the other throughout the day. When both flow equally, sushumna activates. This occurs naturally for an instant between each change in dominance and for a longer period near dawn (brahmamahurta) and dusk (sandhya). That is one of the reasons these two time are considered good for meditation. Anyway, when Chandra is dominant there is less energy, and a more inward perspective. It is better for meditative tasks, but can cause sleep during meditation. When Surya is dominant there is more energy and a more external perspective. It is better for active tasks. It makes the mind want to be up and doing during meditation practice (not good). There is a whole science for this called Swarodhaya. It is very subtle (not that I know anything about it). Next time you find yourself yawning, see if you feel lethargic, or if its something else. If you feel lethargic, try pinching your right nostril closed with your hand and breathing in. See how smoothly the breath flows. Then do the same with the left nostril. If the left nostril is more open, then it is the dominant nostril and is likely responsible for your lethargy. Sometimes the difference is very subtle though. There was a time in my practice when this was a problem and I could not detect any real difference between the flows. I increased the activation of Surya anyway and solved the problem. Ideally, the breath should flow smoothly and clearly through both nostrils during meditation. This means both Ida and Pingala are active and stimulating the flow of prana in shushumna nadi, which is the goal of meditation (on a mechanical level). If there is a nostril dominance problem, you should try to activate the other nostril so that the breath flows equally. This can be accomplished through alternate nostril pranayama (best method), by concentrating on the flow of breath across the septum at the opening of the nostril you want to activate (more difficult), or laying on the side opposite to the side you want opened, with the arm beneath you (right side to open left nostril, etc.) Working with nostril dominance will become easier with time, but it is important to remember it is a natural rhythmic process, and shouldn't be manipulated too freely. , "Lynne McKinnon" <omgirl@p...> wrote: > Thanks, Chris. Very clear info. and very helpful. I'm still yawning... > Namaste, > Lynne > - > Chris Kirner > > Friday, April 09, 2004 8:46 PM > Re: Pranayam .... > > > Lynne, > > The granthis are really BIG obstructions, located in shushmna nadi. > They are called Brahma, Rudra, and Vishnu, and are located at the > opening of shushumna at the base of the tailbone, the anahata, and > ajna chakra. They are said to comprise knots of karmas with their > concommitant desires/aversions and emotional residue. Each is said to > be different, and difficult to pass. > > Chris > > > > , "Lynne McKinnon" <omgirl@p...> > wrote: > > Chris, > > Thank you for this. I like how you mention the different > obstructions and how they might manifest. I have definitely > experienced some of this and yes, it does seem to pass. I think it > was you who mentioned the yawning as one of these obstrucitons, too. > Are these obstructions also called grantis (sp?)? Thanks for the > info. > > Namaste, > > Lynne > > - > > Chris Kirner > > > > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM > > Re: Pranayam .... > > > > > > Hi Ruchi, > > > > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire > basic > > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would > probably > > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer > as > > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of > nadis > > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and > again > > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from > the > > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the > bottom > > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, > without > > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. > > > > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the > nadis > > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, > devotion, > > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the > body, > > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of > nadi > > purification. > > > > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are > closed > > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > > strengthen the nadis. > > > > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of > various > > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > > action. > > > > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If > there > > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where > you > > need to gasp for air later. > > > > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if > your > > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise > and > > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to > the > > process. > > > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way > to > > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the > flow > > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of > the > > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. > > > > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for > it, > > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress > determine > > the degree of stillness. > > > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced > with > > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of > which > > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere > in > > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > > chakras. > > > > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them > to > > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they > are > > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued > practice. > > > > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in > your > > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. > If > > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. > > > > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed > through > > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or > so > > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through > ajna > > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the > miraculous > > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing > it to > > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the > first > > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my > capacity > > and I paid for it. > > > > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope > this > > has been of some help to you. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > > Dear Latha and Group members, > > > > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > > texts but > > > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that > this > > topic > > > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could > explain > > it > > > for a total novice. > > > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > > > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of > singing). > > Ater > > > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking > with > > the > > > mantra. > > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version > (meaning > > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > > mantra > > > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > > breathing. > > > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not > using > > the > > > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I > was > > very > > > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > > malas. > > > > > > Please Advice > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ruchi > > > > > > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > > > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > > > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > > > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. > Hope it > > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > > > > > Chubby Kapolau > > > Dimple Cibukam > > > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > > > Dantaan within > > > Netra so blue > > > Lovely too > > > Maatri's pet > > > Is it you ? > > > > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple > Chin > > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my > eights > > > > right! > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > > click > > > > on > > > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will > get to > > > see > > > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > > > > > /database > > > > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the > weaponry > > > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I > am > > > > still > > > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if > you > > > can. > > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance > the > > > list > > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > > > Sanskrit > > > > > equivalent. > > > > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It > starts > > > with > > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > > feet . > > > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > > requesting > > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association > of > > the > > > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ---- > ---------- > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > b.. > > > > > > c.. Terms of > Service. > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Chris, I just want to say a BIG THANKYOU. Your email has put things in prespective for me. I was struggling with devotion vs. technique. And those days when I would not feel connected I would get up frustrated from the puja but now I can classify them as energy blocks. For the past few days I have moved away from singing. Now I am doing five malas whispering and the other five silent. This is saving me a lot of energy and has helped me focus much better.My mind is also calming down. When I was much younger one fine day I just felt connected and had a wave of devotion rise in my heart. For the long time afterwards I felt mothers presence with me. But I was young at that time and new nothing about spiritual matters so I never practiced and eventually I lost it. And since then I am just crying, trying to reconnect. But now I am realizing that sadhana purifies and being engrossed in worldly matters just made me move away from the divine.Your email definitely helped me understand that everything is her. And I hope that one day that fountain of love that flew through my heart one time will flow again. Much Thanks, Ruchi Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:38 PM Re: Pranayam .... Ruchi, This issue of dry technique vs. feeling devotion is a difficult one. For me, I probably focus too much on Shakti and not enough on devotion. I think there is a kind of balancing act that goes on, unless, that is, bhakti is your path (and perhaps even then, for there are stages, even in bhakti). You say that when you concentrate on technique you feel the energy rising. This is a good thing, but you're right, it is rather mechanical. It doesn't have to be entirely mechanical, but often it is. Many of the techniques of yoga can be thought of in terms of purifying austerities. They are like spiritual exercises, and just like when we work out at the gym, the body tires and the muscles feel weaker. The benefit is realized only after we leave the gym. It is often the same with spiritual practices. The dry focus on technique which allows a more profound experience of Shakti during practice allows the experience of increased purity of devotion later. This is not to say devotion should not be nurtured during the practice of technique as an effort to counteract the dryness. My gurudeva used to write that yoga practice should be greased with love. Tantra shines in this aspect of practice. Elaborate descriptions of the glories of the Goddess and the benefits of practiced are intersperced with technical practices designed to purify and deepen experience. You can try to do the same, if you feel dry at any particular time. Remember Her (or Him). Remember that your life force, your prana, is the Goddess herself, and it is that very prana which rises, in concert with the breath, during practice. In this sense, it is not just a practice, like pumping water from a well, but a relationship with Her. Remember also that purifying austerities are pleasing to both Her and the gurudeva. Being mindful of these things can help. About my experience...it is somewhere in the middle ground, I think, between being dead to mantra shakti and realizing the consciousness of a particular mantra shakti. There's a lot of ground to fall on there. If it is a new mantra, or one that I don't seem to have an immediate connection with, it is helpful for me to concentrate on the feeling of the meaning, or its purpose, while I do japa. It helps to establish a devotional connection with the mantra. After all, the mantra is Divine Mother too. Once a connection is established I pay attention to the changes the mantra makes in my consciousness, and try to focus on that. It is difficult to explain, but that seems to involve a slightly blissful vibration and a narrowing of focus. Then I kind of watch as the vibrations of the mantra increase the focus and the feeling of building energy. Usually, the energy wants to go somewhere, usually up, and I follow it. Generally, I try to get it as high as possible, but sometimes it wants to stay somewhere, anahata, for instance, and I let it. These past few years, my experience has mostly focused on the movement (or lack thereof) up my spine. I have so many obstructions that Shakti has trouble moving upward. So I feel a series of pulses during practice, as pressure builds in one place, then releases, moving upward. With each release there is an increase in one- pointedness and depth (there is also a nice blissful feeling). I do not generally experience the kind of intrusive running dialogue you described anymore. That is not to say my mind does not obstruct my concentration, but it is different than it was. Instead of being concerned with the external aspects of life it focuses on my experiences during practice. Always watching and commenting, "Oh, that was nice,What's happening?," and "Are we sure we want to go there?" That kind of thing. More subtle perhaps, but still a distraction. Well, I hope I have been of help. It's been nice talking with you. May Mother bless your sadhana. Chris , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Dear Chris and Latha, > Thank you both so much for your replies. Its very illuminating and > helpful. I think I was trying to hold my breath too much, that's why my > daiphragm hurt and I was tired. Even when I was trying to do pranayama > by breathing through my abdomen I think I was straining myself in the > process. On top of that (I do not know if that was the effect of the > japa )I was also having very vivid dreams. I have always noticed that > when I have such dreams I walk like a jombie the entire next day. I will > try to relax a little bit more. > > Sometimes when I sing the mantras I feel love and devotion, but I have > noticed that when I start focusing on technique I feel the energy rise > but it feels emotionally dry. It is a little easier for me to feel love > and devotion and connected when I am singing or the other way round I > sing when I feel love and devotion(Sometimes I even wonder if mother > even wants to listen to my awful singing). So there are days when I just > force myself to sit and my mind rattles on, then others when I feel > close to maa. This also leaves me with a sense of despair thinking that > I am not making any progress at all. That's why I wanted to integrate > pranayam in the puja. > What do you focus on when you do the japa ?? > > Many Thanks, > Ruchi > > > Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM > > Re: Pranayam .... > > > Hi Ruchi, > > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire basic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of nadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and again > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. > > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the nadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification. > > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > strengthen the nadis. > > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action. > > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If there > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later. > > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. > > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress determine > the degree of stillness. > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras. > > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. > > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. > > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through ajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the miraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it. > > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope this > has been of some help to you. > > Chris > > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > Dear Latha and Group members, > > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > texts but > > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > topic > > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > it > > for a total novice. > > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > Ater > > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > the > > mantra. > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > mantra > > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > breathing. > > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > the > > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > very > > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > malas. > > > > Please Advice > > > > Regards, > > Ruchi > > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope it > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > > > Chubby Kapolau > > Dimple Cibukam > > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > > Dantaan within > > Netra so blue > > Lovely too > > Maatri's pet > > Is it you ? > > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple Chin > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my eights > > > right! > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > click > > > on > > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get to > > see > > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > > > /database > > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the weaponry > > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > > still > > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > > can. > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > > list > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > > Sanskrit > > > > equivalent. > > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > > with > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > feet . > > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > requesting > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > the > > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links Links Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Dear Chris, Thank you also for all the information on the grahntis and the antedote for yawning. My server has been down and I'm not sure if the email I sent regarding the dominant nostril breathing went through to the group, but please know that I have been working with this during my pranayama practice everyday. the left nostril isdominant slightly--perhaps due to a physical problem from breaking my nose, but I am working ondirecting the flow more to the right during nadi suddhi. Thanks so much for the great info! I so appreciate your time in writing. Much love, many blessings to All, Lynne Ruchi, This was a very beautiful post, too. I struggle with surrendering to the connection sometimes but I find that if I just keep plodding along with all earnestness the intensity of longing brings me around to deep feelings of connectedness. The wheel keeps turningand she keeps putting people, books, dreams and situations right in front of me so I remember... Love to you! - Khanna, Ruchi Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:42 PM RE: Re: Pranayam .... Chris,I just want to say a BIG THANKYOU. Your email has put things in prespective for me. I was struggling withdevotion vs. technique. And those days when I would not feel connected Iwould get up frustrated from the puja but now I can classify them asenergy blocks.For the past few days I have moved away from singing. Now I am doingfive malas whispering and the other five silent. This is saving me alot of energy and has helped me focus much better.My mind is alsocalming down.When I was much younger one fine day I just felt connected and had awave of devotion rise in my heart. For the long time afterwards I feltmothers presence with me. But I was young at that time and new nothingabout spiritual matters so I never practiced and eventually I lost it.And since then I am just crying, trying to reconnect. But now I amrealizing that sadhana purifies and being engrossed in worldly mattersjust made me move away from the divine.Your email definitely helped meunderstand that everything is her. And I hope that one day that fountainof love that flew through my heart one time will flow again.Much Thanks,RuchiChris Kirner [chriskirner1956 ] Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:38 PMSubject: Re: Pranayam ....Ruchi,This issue of dry technique vs. feeling devotion is a difficult one. For me, I probably focus too much on Shakti and not enough on devotion. I think there is a kind of balancing act that goes on, unless, that is, bhakti is your path (and perhaps even then, for there are stages, even in bhakti).You say that when you concentrate on technique you feel the energy rising. This is a good thing, but you're right, it is rather mechanical. It doesn't have to be entirely mechanical, but often it is.Many of the techniques of yoga can be thought of in terms of purifying austerities. They are like spiritual exercises, and just like when we work out at the gym, the body tires and the muscles feel weaker. The benefit is realized only after we leave the gym. It is often the same with spiritual practices. The dry focus on technique which allows a more profound experience of Shakti during practice allows the experience of increased purity of devotion later.This is not to say devotion should not be nurtured during the practice of technique as an effort to counteract the dryness. My gurudeva used to write that yoga practice should be greased with love. Tantra shines in this aspect of practice. Elaborate descriptions of the glories of the Goddess and the benefits of practiced are intersperced with technical practices designed to purify and deepen experience. You can try to do the same, if you feel dry at any particular time. Remember Her (or Him).Remember that your life force, your prana, is the Goddess herself, and it is that very prana which rises, in concert with the breath, during practice. In this sense, it is not just a practice, like pumping water from a well, but a relationship with Her. Remember also that purifying austerities are pleasing to both Her and the gurudeva. Being mindful of these things can help.About my experience...it is somewhere in the middle ground, I think, between being dead to mantra shakti and realizing the consciousness of a particular mantra shakti. There's a lot of ground to fall on there. If it is a new mantra, or one that I don't seem to have an immediate connection with, it is helpful for me to concentrate on the feeling of the meaning, or its purpose, while I do japa. It helps to establish a devotional connection with the mantra. After all, the mantra is Divine Mother too.Once a connection is established I pay attention to the changes the mantra makes in my consciousness, and try to focus on that. It is difficult to explain, but that seems to involve a slightly blissful vibration and a narrowing of focus. Then I kind of watch as the vibrations of the mantra increase the focus and the feeling of building energy. Usually, the energy wants to go somewhere, usually up, and I follow it. Generally, I try to get it as high as possible, but sometimes it wants to stay somewhere, anahata, for instance, and I let it.These past few years, my experience has mostly focused on the movement (or lack thereof) up my spine. I have so many obstructions that Shakti has trouble moving upward. So I feel a series of pulses during practice, as pressure builds in one place, then releases, moving upward. With each release there is an increase in one-pointedness and depth (there is also a nice blissful feeling). I do not generally experience the kind of intrusive running dialogue you described anymore. That is not to say my mind does not obstruct my concentration, but it is different than it was. Instead of being concerned with the external aspects of life it focuses on my experiences during practice. Always watching and commenting, "Oh, that was nice,What's happening?," and "Are we sure we want to go there?" That kind of thing. More subtle perhaps, but still a distraction. Well, I hope I have been of help. It's been nice talking with you. May Mother bless your sadhana.Chris --- In , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote:> Dear Chris and Latha,> Thank you both so much for your replies. Its very illuminating and > helpful. I think I was trying to hold my breath too much, that'swhy my> daiphragm hurt and I was tired. Even when I was trying to dopranayama> by breathing through my abdomen I think I was straining myself inthe> process. On top of that (I do not know if that was the effect of the > japa )I was also having very vivid dreams. I have always noticedthat> when I have such dreams I walk like a jombie the entire next day. Iwill> try to relax a little bit more.> > Sometimes when I sing the mantras I feel love and devotion, but Ihave> noticed that when I start focusing on technique I feel the energyrise> but it feels emotionally dry. It is a little easier for me to feellove> and devotion and connected when I am singing or the other way roundI> sing when I feel love and devotion(Sometimes I even wonder if mother > even wants to listen to my awful singing). So there are days when Ijust> force myself to sit and my mind rattles on, then others when I feel > close to maa. This also leaves me with a sense of despair thinkingthat> I am not making any progress at all. That's why I wanted tointegrate> pranayam in the puja.> What do you focus on when you do the japa ??> > Many Thanks,> Ruchi> > > Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956]> Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM> > Re: Pranayam .....> > > Hi Ruchi,> > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entirebasic > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably> be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer as > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system ofnadis > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would> suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again andagain > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment.> > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the> diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the bottom > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without> windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation.> > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of thenadis > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion,> study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of nadi > purification.> > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and> small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are closed > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and> strengthen the nadis.> > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various> kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > action.> > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. Ifthere > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold> comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > need to gasp for air later.> > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your> prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > process. > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely> uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the flow > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find> relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of the > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly.> > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be> concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for it, > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progressdetermine > the degree of stillness.> > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with> japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > chakras.> > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been> experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice.> > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your> breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help.> > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research> ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed through > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but> each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing throughajna > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of themiraculous > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall> approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it to > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet.> > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves> felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my capacity > and I paid for it.> > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hopethis > has been of some help to you.> > Chris> > > > --- In , "Khanna, Ruchi"> <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote:> > Dear Latha and Group members,> > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit> texts but> > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this> topic> > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain> it> > for a total novice.> > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting> > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing).> Ater> > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with> the> > mantra.> > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version(meaning > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the> mantra> > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my> breathing.> > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using> the> > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was> very> > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten> malas.> > > > Please Advice> > > > Regards,> > Ruchi> > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda]> > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM> > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme> > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ?> > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hopeit> > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ....> > > > Chubby Kapolau> > Dimple Cibukam> > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare> > Dantaan within> > Netra so blue> > Lovely too> > Maatri's pet> > Is it you ?> > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks DimpleChin> > yata yata yata> > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote:> > > Hey,> > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get myeights > > > right!> > > > > > Chris> > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda"> <lathananda>> > > wrote:> > > > Namaste All,> > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and> click> > > on> > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will getto> > see> > > > the tables that I have created for our use.> > > > > > > > /database> > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare theweaponry > > > > across the different chapters that we go through.> > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am> > > still> > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you> > can.> > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records).> > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the> > list> > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their> > Sanskrit> > > > equivalent.> > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts> > with> > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the> feet ..> > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am> > requesting> > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of> the> > > > word to the meaning better.> > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa.> > > > Latha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Groups Links> > > > > > > Links Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Ruchi, I just know it will. You are a blessed soul with a beautiful heart. God can not help but respond to your sincere efforts. Chris , "Khanna, Ruchi" <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > Chris, > I just want to say a BIG THANKYOU. > Your email has put things in prespective for me. I was struggling with > devotion vs. technique. And those days when I would not feel connected I > would get up frustrated from the puja but now I can classify them as > energy blocks. > For the past few days I have moved away from singing. Now I am doing > five malas whispering and the other five silent. This is saving me a > lot of energy and has helped me focus much better.My mind is also > calming down. > When I was much younger one fine day I just felt connected and had a > wave of devotion rise in my heart. For the long time afterwards I felt > mothers presence with me. But I was young at that time and new nothing > about spiritual matters so I never practiced and eventually I lost it. > And since then I am just crying, trying to reconnect. But now I am > realizing that sadhana purifies and being engrossed in worldly matters > just made me move away from the divine.Your email definitely helped me > understand that everything is her. And I hope that one day that fountain > of love that flew through my heart one time will flow again. > > Much Thanks, > Ruchi > > > > Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] > Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:38 PM > > Re: Pranayam .... > > > Ruchi, > > This issue of dry technique vs. feeling devotion is a difficult one. > For me, I probably focus too much on Shakti and not enough on > devotion. I think there is a kind of balancing act that goes on, > unless, that is, bhakti is your path (and perhaps even then, for > there are stages, even in bhakti). > > You say that when you concentrate on technique you feel the energy > rising. This is a good thing, but you're right, it is rather > mechanical. It doesn't have to be entirely mechanical, but often it > is. > > Many of the techniques of yoga can be thought of in terms of > purifying austerities. They are like spiritual exercises, and just > like when we work out at the gym, the body tires and the muscles feel > weaker. The benefit is realized only after we leave the gym. It is > often the same with spiritual practices. The dry focus on technique > which allows a more profound experience of Shakti during practice > allows the experience of increased purity of devotion later. > > This is not to say devotion should not be nurtured during the > practice of technique as an effort to counteract the dryness. My > gurudeva used to write that yoga practice should be greased with > love. Tantra shines in this aspect of practice. Elaborate > descriptions of the glories of the Goddess and the benefits of > practiced are intersperced with technical practices designed to > purify and deepen experience. You can try to do the same, if you feel > dry at any particular time. Remember Her (or Him). > > Remember that your life force, your prana, is the Goddess herself, > and it is that very prana which rises, in concert with the breath, > during practice. In this sense, it is not just a practice, like > pumping water from a well, but a relationship with Her. Remember also > that purifying austerities are pleasing to both Her and the gurudeva. > Being mindful of these things can help. > > About my experience...it is somewhere in the middle ground, I think, > between being dead to mantra shakti and realizing the consciousness > of a particular mantra shakti. There's a lot of ground to fall on > there. > > If it is a new mantra, or one that I don't seem to have an immediate > connection with, it is helpful for me to concentrate on the feeling > of the meaning, or its purpose, while I do japa. It helps to > establish a devotional connection with the mantra. After all, the > mantra is Divine Mother too. > > Once a connection is established I pay attention to the changes the > mantra makes in my consciousness, and try to focus on that. It is > difficult to explain, but that seems to involve a slightly blissful > vibration and a narrowing of focus. Then I kind of watch as the > vibrations of the mantra increase the focus and the feeling of > building energy. Usually, the energy wants to go somewhere, usually > up, and I follow it. Generally, I try to get it as high as possible, > but sometimes it wants to stay somewhere, anahata, for instance, and > I let it. > > These past few years, my experience has mostly focused on the > movement (or lack thereof) up my spine. I have so many obstructions > that Shakti has trouble moving upward. So I feel a series of pulses > during practice, as pressure builds in one place, then releases, > moving upward. With each release there is an increase in one- > pointedness and depth (there is also a nice blissful feeling). > > I do not generally experience the kind of intrusive running dialogue > you described anymore. That is not to say my mind does not obstruct > my concentration, but it is different than it was. Instead of being > concerned with the external aspects of life it focuses on my > experiences during practice. Always watching and commenting, "Oh, > that was nice,What's happening?," and "Are we sure we want to go > there?" That kind of thing. More subtle perhaps, but still a > distraction. > > Well, I hope I have been of help. It's been nice talking with you. > May Mother bless your sadhana. > > Chris > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > Dear Chris and Latha, > > Thank you both so much for your replies. Its very illuminating and > > helpful. I think I was trying to hold my breath too much, that's > why my > > daiphragm hurt and I was tired. Even when I was trying to do > pranayama > > by breathing through my abdomen I think I was straining myself in > the > > process. On top of that (I do not know if that was the effect of the > > japa )I was also having very vivid dreams. I have always noticed > that > > when I have such dreams I walk like a jombie the entire next day. I > will > > try to relax a little bit more. > > > > Sometimes when I sing the mantras I feel love and devotion, but I > have > > noticed that when I start focusing on technique I feel the energy > rise > > but it feels emotionally dry. It is a little easier for me to feel > love > > and devotion and connected when I am singing or the other way round > I > > sing when I feel love and devotion(Sometimes I even wonder if mother > > even wants to listen to my awful singing). So there are days when I > just > > force myself to sit and my mind rattles on, then others when I feel > > close to maa. This also leaves me with a sense of despair thinking > that > > I am not making any progress at all. That's why I wanted to > integrate > > pranayam in the puja. > > What do you focus on when you do the japa ?? > > > > Many Thanks, > > Ruchi > > > > > > Chris Kirner [chriskirner1956] > > Friday, April 09, 2004 4:00 PM > > > > Re: Pranayam .... > > > > > > Hi Ruchi, > > > > I had to struggle with myself not to provide for you an entire > basic > > description of the fundamentals of pranayama, but it would probably > > be too much. If you have more questions I will be happy to answer > as > > I am able, but if you want more detailed info on the system of > nadis > > and the processes of pranayama within a larger context, I would > > suggest getting a good basic yoga book on the subject. > > > > Suffice it to say that control of the breath is cited again and > again > > in the scriptures as the means and sign of attainment. > > > > Fundamentally, the breath should always be full, starting from the > > diaphragm (the abdomen expands first, then the chest from the > bottom > > up), even, without any catches or interruptions, and quiet, without > > windy noise. The exhalation should be longer than the inhalation. > > > > Spiritual progress can be understood as the purification of the > nadis > > in the subtle body. This is accomplished in various ways, devotion, > > study, etc. The system of nadis orders all the process of the body, > > physical, emotional and mental. Pranayama is a direct method of > nadi > > purification. > > > > In most people the nadis are in various states, some are weak and > > small, some are strong and large, some are opened and some are > closed > > off. The process of breathing properly begins to unblock and > > strengthen the nadis. > > > > In this process there are many experiences, slight pains of various > > kinds, feelings of unease, or vague frustration, heat, itching, > > trembling, etc. All of these are the process of purification in > > action. > > > > The important thing is that you do not exceed your capacity. If > there > > is pain, back off a bit. Do not inhale more than you can hold > > comfortably, and do not extend an exhalation to the point where you > > need to gasp for air later. > > > > Now, to my opinion on your experiences. It sounds to me as if your > > prana is awakening to the process of purification you've set for > > yourself. The tapas of sitting in one asana on a firm asana and > > performing spiritual practice creates heat which wants to rise and > > begin unblocking the nadis. The vibration of the mantra adds to the > > process. > > > > When an obstruction or constriction is met it feels vaguely > > uncomfortable (catches or changes in the breath are an easy way to > > experience this easily). Movement of the body or a change in the > flow > > of the breath are easy ways to bypass the obstruction, and find > > relief, but does little to remove the obstruction. That is one of > the > > reasons it is important to sit unmoving and breathe properly. > > > > In my opinion, the movement of your body is not anything to be > > concerned about. Just be aware of the ideal, and the reasons for > it, > > and let your own experience, will, and desire for progress > determine > > the degree of stillness. > > > > As far as the singing is concerned, I am not very experienced with > > japa aloud. But in my own practice I've experienced roughness, > > smoothness, changes in pitch, and extension of vowels, all of which > > have been related to some blockages (or lack thereof) somewhere in > > the spinal nadis. There is a relationship between pitch and the > > chakras. > > > > As I lack any authoritative guidance on this, I have been > > experimenting with these phenomena as they appear, trying to > > understand exactly what they represent and how best to use them to > > enhance the practice. But whatever they are specifically, they are > > generally obstructions, and will disappear with continued practice. > > > > Your tiredness could mean you're exceeding you capacity with your > > breath. Or it could be the mental aspect of an obstruction in your > > nadis you're working through. If it is the latter, it will pass. If > > it is the former, reducing the length of your breath should help. > > > > When I was first practicing yoga, I was working aboard a research > > ship. I spent many hours outside as a lookout, watching for other > > ships. There was a certain trip in the spring when we passed > through > > many small rain squalls. Between them it was reasonably nice, but > > each time we passed under one, there would be fifteen minutes or so > > of driving rain. It was uncomfortable. > > > > I was ignorant, but I had been doing a lot of breathing through > ajna > > chakra and I was full of the stories and excitement of the > miraculous > > feats of the yogis, so for a few days, whenever I saw a squall > > approaching I would begin tratak (concentration) on it, willing it > to > > slow down, or move aside, so I would not have to get wet. > > > > Well, it seemed to work, but afterward I was exhausted. My nerves > > felt stretched and strained, and all I could do was go below and > > sleep until my next watch. That I continued for more than the first > > day was a testament to my youth and stupidity. I exceeded my > capacity > > and I paid for it. > > > > I hope I haven't gone on too long (as I tend to do), and I hope > this > > has been of some help to you. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > , "Khanna, Ruchi" > > <Ruchi.Khanna@d...> wrote: > > > Dear Latha and Group members, > > > > > > I do not know anything about pranayam. I can read the Sanskrit > > texts but > > > I do not kinow how the chanting should be done. I know that this > > topic > > > has been discussed before, but it would help if you could explain > > it > > > for a total novice. > > > When I do the japa, over the course of time my tone of chanting > > > changes(from pronouncing it out it turns to some kind of singing). > > Ater > > > about five malas I only feel comfortable when I start rocking with > > the > > > mantra. > > > For the past four days I have been trying to do my version (meaning > > > whatever I think I have understood ) of the pranayama with the > > mantra > > > but that focuses my attention away from the mantra and on my > > breathing. > > > I also have been feeling very tired, so I am definitely not using > > the > > > right technique. Yesterday's chanting was not good at all. I was > > very > > > tired and had to literally force myself to sit through the ten > > malas. > > > > > > Please Advice > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ruchi > > > > > > > > > > > > Latha Nanda [lathananda] > > > Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:36 AM > > > > > > Kavach - Nursery Rhyme > > > > > > > > > Ahem ! We can and should use all the tools possible to aid our > > > learning. How about a good ol nursery rhyme ? > > > > > > Here is one for those that find the vocab too intimidating. Hope > it > > > will make you remember atleast a few words from the Kavach ... > > > > > > Chubby Kapolau > > > Dimple Cibukam > > > Rosy Uttaroshte and Adhare > > > Dantaan within > > > Netra so blue > > > Lovely too > > > Maatri's pet > > > Is it you ? > > > > > > Figure it out ? It is the nursery rhyme - Chubby Cheeks Dimple > Chin > > > yata yata yata > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > I'll be satisfied for now if I can finally manage to get my > eights > > > > right! > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Namaste All, > > > > > > > > > > If you login to and come to the group's home page and > > click > > > > on > > > > > the Database link in the left side of the page, you will get > to > > > see > > > > > the tables that I have created for our use. > > > > > > > > > > /database > > > > > > > > > > There is one on Chandi symbolism and we can compare the > weaponry > > > > > across the different chapters that we go through. > > > > > > > > > > There is another table on the vocabulary from the Kavach. I am > > > > still > > > > > adding to this table and request you all to add in too if you > > > can. > > > > > (Anybody can add and edit their own records). > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of the vocabulary table is to give at a glance the > > > list > > > > > of the parts of the body as listed in the Kavach and their > > > Sanskrit > > > > > equivalent. > > > > > > > > > > Hey did you notice that the Kavach is very orderly ? It starts > > > with > > > > > the head and works its way down the body and ends with the > > feet . > > > > > When I chant, I point to the part of the body that I am > > > requesting > > > > > the Goddess to protect and that helps make the association of > > the > > > > > word to the meaning better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa. > > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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