Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Dear Steve/Mahamuni/Sadhvi and everyone, Thank you for responding to my question on the appropriate question. Steve, you gave a good yardstick - how does the question matter in the large scheme of things. Surya - you told me to listen to my heart, and it was because of that , that this post came about , Sadhvi , as always you know exactly what to say... I will be more sensitive to any feelings in the "pit of my stomach too " Here is one question that feels just right to me and I invite people's opinions. What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the path ? Um, IMHO it is easy to generalize and say "Love" or "Surrender" but soooo difficult to understand from an ordinary point of view . I am looking for practical steps , and usually something from your experience speaks to people's hearts. Can anyone share ? How does a disciple relate to a Guru ? How does a disciple relate to other disciples ? How does a disciple relate to other paths ? How does a disciple choose his path ? And more .... JAI MAAAAAAA Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the path ? > > JAI MAAAAAAA > Latha 1. A 'Rational' attitude to everything material - humans and other non-animate sense objects. The simplest definition of 'rational' for me is 'common sense' 2. Before you accept a Guru, TEST him/her! 3. Let your intuition guide you to the right (for you) Guru. 4. Once accepted, your mind should die, and the Guru's mind should take over. (aka surrender). Swami Vivekananda's words. IMHO, this does not happen overnight for most souls. . 5. Focus on the things that matter most - the 80/20 rule. ('rocks first' in your time-management example, Latha!) 6. Do love as many people as possible under your present circumstances. 7. IMHO, conscious expression of love to others ALL THE TIME, AT THIS TIME, is not crucial for growth ... if it is there, good; if not, don't be bogged down. One thing I am sure of is that it WILL come with intensity of spiritual practice! 8. Don't speak of your practices openly, or discuss others' practices UNLESS such talks are helping you grow spiritually... build your reserves and create the intensity for the FINAL LEAP. 9. Other religions/practices may be good, but do not be distracted by them once you have chosen your practice. Hope this helps atleast one person (inclusive of me!). Good question, Latha. Thanks for goading us to constructive thought. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Latha, In my opinion, the most important possession of a disciple is a burning desire for God, for freedom, for truth. Nothing stands in the way of such a desire. Chris , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Steve/Mahamuni/Sadhvi and everyone, > > Thank you for responding to my question on the appropriate question. > Steve, you gave a good yardstick - how does the question matter in > the large scheme of things. Surya - you told me to listen to my > heart, and it was because of that , that this post came about , > Sadhvi , as always you know exactly what to say... I will be more > sensitive to any feelings in the "pit of my stomach too " > > Here is one question that feels just right to me and I invite > people's opinions. > > What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the path ? > > Um, IMHO it is easy to generalize and say "Love" or "Surrender" but > soooo difficult to understand from an ordinary point of view . I am > looking for practical steps , and usually something from your > experience speaks to people's hearts. Can anyone share ? > > How does a disciple relate to a Guru ? How does a disciple relate to > other disciples ? How does a disciple relate to other paths ? How > does a disciple choose his path ? And more .... > > JAI MAAAAAAA > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Firm resolve, strong reflection, resourcefulness, creativity and inspiration coupled with an alacrity to serve are fruitions of spirited discipline. Sanga and seva are the realms in which these qualities come forth. > What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the path ? > > Um, IMHO it is easy to generalize and say "Love" or "Surrender" but > soooo difficult to understand from an ordinary point of view . I am > looking for practical steps , and usually something from your > experience speaks to people's hearts. Can anyone share ? > > How does a disciple relate to a Guru ? How does a disciple relate to > other disciples ? How does a disciple relate to other paths ? How > does a disciple choose his path ? And more .... > > JAI MAAAAAAA > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 1. Complete Devotion to God as the yardstick for everything else. 2. Willingness to admit faults and weaknesses and willingness to change. 3. DISCRIMINATION (especially with regards to chosing a guru) 4. Perserverance in the face of obstacles. 5. A sense of humor (often sorely lacking). 6. True humility, that is, understanding that everything we might "have" is a gift from God. 7. Courage. 8. An interest in developing a loving attitude towards others. 9. Self respect. 10. GRATITUDE sadhvi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 The following are described as the charecterstics of a disciple(to be initiated as a Kaula) according to Kularnava tantra: Endowed with auspicious features Given to sadhana that leads to samadhi, of good qualities and culture, clean of body and apparel, wise, devoted to dharma,(*) pure of mind, steady in observances, of truthful practice, gifted with faith and devotion, diligent, sparsely eating, deep thoughted; serving without motive; scrutinising; heroic; free from poverty of mind; skillful in all actions; clean; obiliging to all; grateful; afraid of sin; approved of the holy and the good; believer in God;liberal; engaged in the good of all creatures; he shall be one who has trust and modesty; who is not given to deceive in matters of wealth, body, etc., acheives the impossible; is brave, enthusiastic; and strong; engages in favorable activities; not intoxicated; able, helpful, truthful, limited in smiling and speech; not given to blaming others; who grasps what is said but once; clever; expansive in intelligence; averse to listen to his own praise and genial to other's criticism of himself; master of his senses; contented with himself,; intelligent; celibate; free from worry, disease, fickleness, grief, delusion and doubt. (*)Dharma- Dharma is that which is described in Smritis like Vashista Dharma sutra, Baudhayana Dharma sutra, Apastamba dharma sutra, Gautama dharma sutra, Yajnavalka smriti etc. Translation by Shri Ram Kumar Rai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 I read all your lists with much interest, and my list has some things in common with what Manoj has come up with. Satish's list is from an authoritative source - and that raises a good point, it is not what we believe should be the qualities of a disciple but what the Masters look for in a person before they can initiate him/her. I will also post on what Swami Vivekananda has to say in this regard. Chris, devotion to God , over and above everything , is in imho, a sign of a great bhakta , is it necessarily one of a disciple ? I invite your post to expand on this statement. Rudran - you never said more truer words "Sanga and seva are the realms in which these qualities come forth." . Certainly Sanga and Seva are our testing grounds. Sadhvi - your list , wouldnt it apply to people in general - any devotee ? What in your opinion would be that definitive point that sets a devotee apart from a disciple ? I invite your comments . Here is my understanding of what a disciple needs to possess, and I invite your discussion. Also my feeling is that this list will change or evolve depending on how evolved we are, but this is my understanding - disciple 101 :-) 1) Commitment to Sadhana - Once we KNOW that there is more to life than just a material existence , we try to serve learned people and practice what they give us. I differ from others slightly here in that , imho, we can never know anyone entirely before committing ourselves to their path. But we can always practice with the full trust that God will lead us to the next step. 2) Trust - Sadhvi's point -"understanding that everything we might "have" is a gift from God." If we have this attitude , we can live our lives peacefully. Trust in Nature - so that whether we land up with a 'Good' Guru or a not so good one, Nature is asking us to learn at each and every step. 3) Discipline - and this means getting our lives in order so that we can spend time in Sadhana . My bugbear - maybe I should worship Shani Bhagavan a bit. 4) Seva - wherever our circumstances puts us, we serve to the best of our abilities . We put aside our petty needs and give as the situation asks for. We fulfil whatever the Guru asks us - our mind dies and the Guru's takes over. This is very important for cleansing and purifying ourselves, IMO. 5) Take active responsibility in the partnership- we are the ones trying to learn, and we expose ourselves to different situations. If something doesnt work out as we expected, we learn from the situation and move on. No point in lingering over past "shoulda coulda woulda" . These are my thoughts based on my current level. I would be curious to know how this list changes in a year from now. JAI MAA Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 latha, in my opionion that you are sincerely asking these questions of yourself is one of those required qualities. honesty and sincerity. where are we without these things. we can develop into gods and remain bound by falsehoods and guile. you are quite free of those things in my observation. how do we relate to the guru. this is a good question. my answer is, with respect, but not adulation. if you want the company of the guru too much, it becomes an attachment like anything else. want god first, and see the guru as an expression of that. then know, that expression is everywhere, and it is entirely up to ourselves to see this. we need the guru. but we also need to stand alone. bowing down is standing up. that is my zen tip o' the day. like sadhvi, i try and make statements based on my own mistakes... the lessons hardest and most thoroughly learned [we hope.] steve , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Steve/Mahamuni/Sadhvi and everyone, > > Thank you for responding to my question on the appropriate question. > Steve, you gave a good yardstick - how does the question matter in > the large scheme of things. Surya - you told me to listen to my > heart, and it was because of that , that this post came about , > Sadhvi , as always you know exactly what to say... I will be more > sensitive to any feelings in the "pit of my stomach too " > > Here is one question that feels just right to me and I invite > people's opinions. > > What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the path ? > > Um, IMHO it is easy to generalize and say "Love" or "Surrender" but > soooo difficult to understand from an ordinary point of view . I am > looking for practical steps , and usually something from your > experience speaks to people's hearts. Can anyone share ? > > How does a disciple relate to a Guru ? How does a disciple relate to > other disciples ? How does a disciple relate to other paths ? How > does a disciple choose his path ? And more .... > > JAI MAAAAAAA > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 wow. so many good answers. see what you started, latha! steve , "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote: > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > What are the qualities that a disciple needs to possess in the > path ? > > > > JAI MAAAAAAA > > Latha > > 1. A 'Rational' attitude to everything material - humans and other > non-animate sense objects. The simplest definition of 'rational' for > me is 'common sense' > 2. Before you accept a Guru, TEST him/her! > 3. Let your intuition guide you to the right (for you) Guru. > 4. Once accepted, your mind should die, and the Guru's mind should > take over. (aka surrender). Swami Vivekananda's words. IMHO, this > does not happen overnight for most souls. . > 5. Focus on the things that matter most - the 80/20 rule. ('rocks > first' in your time-management example, Latha!) > 6. Do love as many people as possible under your present > circumstances. > 7. IMHO, conscious expression of love to others ALL THE TIME, AT > THIS TIME, is not crucial for growth ... if it is there, good; if > not, don't be bogged down. One thing I am sure of is that it WILL > come with intensity of spiritual practice! > 8. Don't speak of your practices openly, or discuss others' > practices UNLESS such talks are helping you grow spiritually... > build your reserves and create the intensity for the FINAL LEAP. > 9. Other religions/practices may be good, but do not be distracted > by them once you have chosen your practice. > > Hope this helps atleast one person (inclusive of me!). > > Good question, Latha. Thanks for goading us to constructive thought. > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 these are all good, rudran's too, everyone's. some of these are from the pov of experience, that is the best stuff, y'all are teachers w/o ego. s , "nityashakti" <sadhvi@p...> wrote: > 1. Complete Devotion to God as the yardstick for everything else. > 2. Willingness to admit faults and weaknesses and willingness to > change. > 3. DISCRIMINATION (especially with regards to chosing a guru) > 4. Perserverance in the face of obstacles. > 5. A sense of humor (often sorely lacking). > 6. True humility, that is, understanding that everything we might > "have" is a gift from God. > 7. Courage. > 8. An interest in developing a loving attitude towards others. > 9. Self respect. > 10. GRATITUDE > > sadhvi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 hm ... also sounds like a recipe for happiness. s , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > The following are described as the charecterstics of a disciple(to > be initiated as a Kaula) according to Kularnava tantra: > > Endowed with auspicious features > Given to sadhana that leads to samadhi, > of good qualities and culture, > clean of body and apparel, > wise, > devoted to dharma,(*) > pure of mind, > steady in observances, > of truthful practice, > gifted with faith and devotion, > diligent, > sparsely eating, > deep thoughted; serving without motive; scrutinising; heroic; > free from poverty of mind; skillful in all actions; clean; obiliging > to all; grateful; afraid of sin; approved of the holy and the good; > believer in God;liberal; engaged in the good of all creatures; he > shall be one who has trust and modesty; who is not given to deceive > in matters of wealth, body, etc., acheives the impossible; is brave, > enthusiastic; and strong; engages in favorable activities; not > intoxicated; able, helpful, truthful, limited in smiling and speech; > not given to blaming others; who grasps what is said but once; > clever; expansive in intelligence; averse to listen to his own > praise and genial to other's criticism of himself; master of his > senses; contented with himself,; intelligent; celibate; free from > worry, disease, fickleness, grief, delusion and doubt. > > (*)Dharma- Dharma is that which is described in Smritis like > Vashista Dharma sutra, Baudhayana Dharma sutra, Apastamba dharma > sutra, Gautama dharma sutra, Yajnavalka smriti etc. > > Translation by Shri Ram Kumar Rai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 hi latha this is crazy, but, a couple weeks ago i asked swamiji if he was a guru or a disciple. i am a complex kind of fool, so that question was coming from several places at once, not all of them 'i don't know.' the answer was along the lines of the best guru is the disciple, or, the best disciple is the guru. they are one and the same. so it would mean being complete, as complete as one can be in the limitless path. we look for god all the time until that is all we see. boom. it can be said in countless ways, and will be, as long as we have speech to express our wonder. love! s , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > I read all your lists with much interest, and my list has some > things in common with what Manoj has come up with. > > Satish's list is from an authoritative source - and that raises a > good point, it is not what we believe should be the qualities of a > disciple but what the Masters look for in a person before they can > initiate him/her. I will also post on what Swami Vivekananda has to > say in this regard. > > Chris, devotion to God , over and above everything , is in imho, a > sign of a great bhakta , is it necessarily one of a disciple ? I > invite your post to expand on this statement. > > Rudran - you never said more truer words "Sanga and seva are the > realms in which these qualities come forth." . Certainly Sanga and > Seva are our testing grounds. > > Sadhvi - your list , wouldnt it apply to people in general - any > devotee ? What in your opinion would be that definitive point that > sets a devotee apart from a disciple ? I invite your comments . > > Here is my understanding of what a disciple needs to possess, and I > invite your discussion. Also my feeling is that this list will > change or evolve depending on how evolved we are, but this is my > understanding - disciple 101 :-) > > 1) Commitment to Sadhana - Once we KNOW that there is more to life > than just a material existence , we try to serve learned people and > practice what they give us. I differ from others slightly here in > that , imho, we can never know anyone entirely before committing > ourselves to their path. But we can always practice with the full > trust that God will lead us to the next step. > > 2) Trust - Sadhvi's point -"understanding that everything we might > "have" is a gift from God." If we have this attitude , we can live > our lives peacefully. Trust in Nature - so that whether we land up > with a 'Good' Guru or a not so good one, Nature is asking us to > learn at each and every step. > > 3) Discipline - and this means getting our lives in order so that we > can spend time in Sadhana . My bugbear - maybe I should worship > Shani Bhagavan a bit. > > 4) Seva - wherever our circumstances puts us, we serve to the best > of our abilities . We put aside our petty needs and give as the > situation asks for. We fulfil whatever the Guru asks us - our mind > dies and the Guru's takes over. This is very important for cleansing > and purifying ourselves, IMO. > > 5) Take active responsibility in the partnership- we are the ones > trying to learn, and we expose ourselves to different situations. If > something doesnt work out as we expected, we learn from the > situation and move on. No point in lingering over past "shoulda > coulda woulda" . > > These are my thoughts based on my current level. I would be curious > to know how this list changes in a year from now. > > JAI MAA > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Latha, Without a burning desire for God, freedom, or truth, one cannot be a disciple. When all else falls away, only the fire of desire for God, freedom, or truth remains. Without it there is no progress on the path - any path. Chris , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > I read all your lists with much interest, and my list has some > things in common with what Manoj has come up with. > > Satish's list is from an authoritative source - and that raises a > good point, it is not what we believe should be the qualities of a > disciple but what the Masters look for in a person before they can > initiate him/her. I will also post on what Swami Vivekananda has to > say in this regard. > > Chris, devotion to God , over and above everything , is in imho, a > sign of a great bhakta , is it necessarily one of a disciple ? I > invite your post to expand on this statement. > > Rudran - you never said more truer words "Sanga and seva are the > realms in which these qualities come forth." . Certainly Sanga and > Seva are our testing grounds. > > Sadhvi - your list , wouldnt it apply to people in general - any > devotee ? What in your opinion would be that definitive point that > sets a devotee apart from a disciple ? I invite your comments . > > Here is my understanding of what a disciple needs to possess, and I > invite your discussion. Also my feeling is that this list will > change or evolve depending on how evolved we are, but this is my > understanding - disciple 101 :-) > > 1) Commitment to Sadhana - Once we KNOW that there is more to life > than just a material existence , we try to serve learned people and > practice what they give us. I differ from others slightly here in > that , imho, we can never know anyone entirely before committing > ourselves to their path. But we can always practice with the full > trust that God will lead us to the next step. > > 2) Trust - Sadhvi's point -"understanding that everything we might > "have" is a gift from God." If we have this attitude , we can live > our lives peacefully. Trust in Nature - so that whether we land up > with a 'Good' Guru or a not so good one, Nature is asking us to > learn at each and every step. > > 3) Discipline - and this means getting our lives in order so that we > can spend time in Sadhana . My bugbear - maybe I should worship > Shani Bhagavan a bit. > > 4) Seva - wherever our circumstances puts us, we serve to the best > of our abilities . We put aside our petty needs and give as the > situation asks for. We fulfil whatever the Guru asks us - our mind > dies and the Guru's takes over. This is very important for cleansing > and purifying ourselves, IMO. > > 5) Take active responsibility in the partnership- we are the ones > trying to learn, and we expose ourselves to different situations. If > something doesnt work out as we expected, we learn from the > situation and move on. No point in lingering over past "shoulda > coulda woulda" . > > These are my thoughts based on my current level. I would be curious > to know how this list changes in a year from now. > > JAI MAA > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.