Guest guest Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Namaste Chris, Your post got me thinking about "Sumbha and Nishumbha" those two asuras Swamiji has defined as Self Conceit and Self Deprecation that appear in chapters 9 and 10. In sanskrit Bha means to shine. Shumbha means to make his own self shine. Shumbha is He who makes his own self to shine which is Self Conceit. Nishumbha is He who makes his own self not to shine or Self deprecation. You mentioned self doubt which seems to me to be born from Self Deprecation. Self Deprecation are those thoughts that put ourselves down. EX: "I'm no good at this. I'll never get it right. I am not good enough. I am not qualified. I can't learn how to pronounce the mantras, etc..." Self Deprecation makes so many excuses of why we should get up from the asan. In the Chandi in the Brahmaadi Saapaa vimocanam verse 9 which corresponds to chapter 9, it says, Om jaam jaati svaruupinyai nishumbha vadha kaarinyai....." Om Birth, the intrinsic nature of All Beings Born, the cause of destroying Self-Deprecation......" jaam-birth jaati- All beings born Swamiji explains that birth itself is not the cause of destroying self deprecation. It means we become one with and or identify with all beings born. We stop putting ourselves down because we can forgive other beings because we are one with all beings. We are all part of one family of life and we realize we all have inadequecies. We all are subject to this same Self Deprecation. We empathize and expand our horizons of this little egotistical self to include all beings born. That realization that we are part of all beings born is the cause of destroying Self Deprecation. If I can forgive you for your feelings of inadequecies certainly I can forgive myself. Goddess bless you and all beings born. , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Steve, > > I think you're right. Ultimately, everything in life stems from a > foundation of individual experience, either an external experience, > or an intuitive inner experience, a vision or conviction, as you say, > the truth of which is beyond argumentation. This is true of faith, as > well. No scripture can bestow faith, and no teacher. Only experience > creates true faith. > > I think there are two kinds of faith that are important for the > sadhaka: faith in God and guru, and faith in one's self. Having faith > in God and guru is self-evident. Everyone understands the importance > of this faith. But it is equally important to have faith in yourself, > in your ultimate fitness, worthiness, and ability to achieve the goal > of your practices. Faith in God and faith in yourself go hand in hand > on the path of sadhana. > > The Yoga Sutras, and I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) the > Devi Gita, list the failure to achieve samadhi as one of the major > kleshas, or obstacles, to achievement of samadhi. > > It is easy, with the passage of years, to become discouraged, to look > at yourself and say, "Look at me! I've been doing sadhana all this > time and I've hardly changed at all. I'm still basically the same > person I was when I began." If one's faith and desire for God is > weak, one can easily fall off the path here. If one's faith and > desire for God are strong, self-doubt begins to sap one's will and > energy. > > I think the best cure for self-doubt may be the gurudeva. If one has > a relationship with the guru, that example is a constant reminder of > what is possible, but a compassionate word of encouragement from the > gurudeva is the best medicine. If the gurudeva believes in you, how > can you possibly doubt yourself? As with everything else on the path, > the gurudeva is always your constant companion (though usually out of > sight), always ready to give you a little extra push when you need > it. Jai Gurudeva! > > Chris > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > shradda plus intelligence. the common error with this no doubt is > to > > think of shradda as belief, which it is, in a way. but it is more. > > it is conviction, vision, discrimination, as well. > > > > here it is for me -- shradda is an inner core. this we can dwell > > upon and it lights up. it is awareness itself. without shradda, > > there is reacting to the things of the world, sort of like an > arcade > > game. shradda is pulling to a limitless center. > > > > it is also a friction, or a crowbar, or a lever, that works against > > the movement of the world. > > > > steve > > > > > > , "rudran2" <stechiekov> > > wrote: > > > Yes it certainly is interesting. If you think about it Shradda > > more > > > than anything else is probably what will really keep us going in > > our > > > sadic efforts daily throughout the years and decades ahead. > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > that's interesting. shradda. if you ask yourself, 'what is > > faith' > > > > you come up with an interesting sense of yourself/the world. > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Question from Latha : > > > > > > > > > > In your opinion, what is the single most important quality > > that a > > > > > disciple needs to possess ? > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's response : > > > > > > > > > > Faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Thank you for sharing that, Parvati. "parv108" <parv108 > Mon, 24 May 2004 05:40:51 -0000 Chris: Shumbha & Nishumbha Namaste Chris, Your post got me thinking about "Sumbha and Nishumbha" those two asuras Swamiji has defined as Self Conceit and Self Deprecation that appear in chapters 9 and 10. In sanskrit Bha means to shine. Shumbha means to make his own self shine. Shumbha is He who makes his own self to shine which is Self Conceit. Nishumbha is He who makes his own self not to shine or Self deprecation. You mentioned self doubt which seems to me to be born from Self Deprecation. Self Deprecation are those thoughts that put ourselves down. EX: "I'm no good at this. I'll never get it right. I am not good enough. I am not qualified. I can't learn how to pronounce the mantras, etc..." Self Deprecation makes so many excuses of why we should get up from the asan. In the Chandi in the Brahmaadi Saapaa vimocanam verse 9 which corresponds to chapter 9, it says, Om jaam jaati svaruupinyai nishumbha vadha kaarinyai....." Om Birth, the intrinsic nature of All Beings Born, the cause of destroying Self-Deprecation......" jaam-birth jaati- All beings born Swamiji explains that birth itself is not the cause of destroying self deprecation. It means we become one with and or identify with all beings born. We stop putting ourselves down because we can forgive other beings because we are one with all beings. We are all part of one family of life and we realize we all have inadequecies. We all are subject to this same Self Deprecation. We empathize and expand our horizons of this little egotistical self to include all beings born. That realization that we are part of all beings born is the cause of destroying Self Deprecation. If I can forgive you for your feelings of inadequecies certainly I can forgive myself. Goddess bless you and all beings born. , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Steve, > > I think you're right. Ultimately, everything in life stems from a > foundation of individual experience, either an external experience, > or an intuitive inner experience, a vision or conviction, as you say, > the truth of which is beyond argumentation. This is true of faith, as > well. No scripture can bestow faith, and no teacher. Only experience > creates true faith. > > I think there are two kinds of faith that are important for the > sadhaka: faith in God and guru, and faith in one's self. Having faith > in God and guru is self-evident. Everyone understands the importance > of this faith. But it is equally important to have faith in yourself, > in your ultimate fitness, worthiness, and ability to achieve the goal > of your practices. Faith in God and faith in yourself go hand in hand > on the path of sadhana. > > The Yoga Sutras, and I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) the > Devi Gita, list the failure to achieve samadhi as one of the major > kleshas, or obstacles, to achievement of samadhi. > > It is easy, with the passage of years, to become discouraged, to look > at yourself and say, "Look at me! I've been doing sadhana all this > time and I've hardly changed at all. I'm still basically the same > person I was when I began." If one's faith and desire for God is > weak, one can easily fall off the path here. If one's faith and > desire for God are strong, self-doubt begins to sap one's will and > energy. > > I think the best cure for self-doubt may be the gurudeva. If one has > a relationship with the guru, that example is a constant reminder of > what is possible, but a compassionate word of encouragement from the > gurudeva is the best medicine. If the gurudeva believes in you, how > can you possibly doubt yourself? As with everything else on the path, > the gurudeva is always your constant companion (though usually out of > sight), always ready to give you a little extra push when you need > it. Jai Gurudeva! > > Chris > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > shradda plus intelligence. the common error with this no doubt is > to > > think of shradda as belief, which it is, in a way. but it is more. > > it is conviction, vision, discrimination, as well. > > > > here it is for me -- shradda is an inner core. this we can dwell > > upon and it lights up. it is awareness itself. without shradda, > > there is reacting to the things of the world, sort of like an > arcade > > game. shradda is pulling to a limitless center. > > > > it is also a friction, or a crowbar, or a lever, that works against > > the movement of the world. > > > > steve > > > > > > , "rudran2" <stechiekov> > > wrote: > > > Yes it certainly is interesting. If you think about it Shradda > > more > > > than anything else is probably what will really keep us going in > > our > > > sadic efforts daily throughout the years and decades ahead. > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > that's interesting. shradda. if you ask yourself, 'what is > > faith' > > > > you come up with an interesting sense of yourself/the world. > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Question from Latha : > > > > > > > > > > In your opinion, what is the single most important quality > > that a > > > > > disciple needs to possess ? > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's response : > > > > > > > > > > Faith. Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Namaste Parvati, You're getting pretty good at this Sanskrit stuff, aren't you? A very thoughtful post; very nice (compassionate). Yes, the birth (to borrow the metaphore) of the knowledge of our common nature as feeling beings is the birth of compassion. But I have discovered it is far easier to forgive others their failings than myself, my own. The roots of self-deprication and conceit go very deep, and I think it requires more than the recognition of our common humanity to dig them out, but the recognition of our common divinity. I have struggled with myself for years, trying to eliminate my particular human imperfections, with limited success. Most folks repress the things about themselves they don't like, and pretend they either don't exist or that they have triumphed over them. I have come to the conclusion that the only sure way to remove these faults is to burn them to ash in the fire of pure intuitive vision -- ultimately, the vision of our common divinity. After all, at least in the beginning, this is why we chant, isn't it? Chris , "parv108" <parv108> wrote: > Namaste Chris, > Your post got me thinking about "Sumbha and Nishumbha" > those two asuras Swamiji has defined as Self Conceit and Self > Deprecation that appear in chapters 9 and 10. > In sanskrit Bha means to shine. Shumbha means to make > his own self shine. Shumbha is He who makes his own self to > shine which is Self Conceit. Nishumbha is He who makes his > own self not to shine or Self deprecation. > You mentioned self doubt which seems to me to be born > from Self Deprecation. Self Deprecation are those thoughts that > put ourselves down. EX: "I'm no good at this. I'll never get it > right. I > am not good enough. I am not qualified. I can't learn how to > pronounce the mantras, etc..." Self Deprecation makes so many > excuses of why we should get up from the asan. > In the Chandi in the Brahmaadi Saapaa vimocanam verse 9 > which corresponds to chapter 9, it says, > > Om jaam jaati svaruupinyai nishumbha vadha kaarinyai....." > Om Birth, the intrinsic nature of All Beings Born, the cause of > destroying Self-Deprecation......" > > jaam-birth > jaati- All beings born > > Swamiji explains that birth itself is not the cause of destroying > self deprecation. It means we become one with and or identify > with all beings born. We stop putting ourselves down because > we can forgive other beings because we are one with all beings. > We are all part of one family of life and we realize we all have > inadequecies. We all are subject to this same Self Deprecation. > We empathize and expand our horizons of this little egotistical > self to include all beings born. That realization that we are part of > all beings born is the cause of destroying Self Deprecation. > If I can forgive you for your feelings of inadequecies certainly I > can forgive myself. Goddess bless you and all beings born. > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Steve, > > > > I think you're right. Ultimately, everything in life stems from a > > foundation of individual experience, either an external > experience, > > or an intuitive inner experience, a vision or conviction, as you > say, > > the truth of which is beyond argumentation. This is true of faith, > as > > well. No scripture can bestow faith, and no teacher. Only > experience > > creates true faith. > > > > I think there are two kinds of faith that are important for the > > sadhaka: faith in God and guru, and faith in one's self. Having > faith > > in God and guru is self-evident. Everyone understands the > importance > > of this faith. But it is equally important to have faith in > yourself, > > in your ultimate fitness, worthiness, and ability to achieve the > goal > > of your practices. Faith in God and faith in yourself go hand in > hand > > on the path of sadhana. > > > > The Yoga Sutras, and I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) > the > > Devi Gita, list the failure to achieve samadhi as one of the > major > > kleshas, or obstacles, to achievement of samadhi. > > > > It is easy, with the passage of years, to become discouraged, > to look > > at yourself and say, "Look at me! I've been doing sadhana all > this > > time and I've hardly changed at all. I'm still basically the same > > person I was when I began." If one's faith and desire for God is > > weak, one can easily fall off the path here. If one's faith and > > desire for God are strong, self-doubt begins to sap one's will > and > > energy. > > > > I think the best cure for self-doubt may be the gurudeva. If one > has > > a relationship with the guru, that example is a constant > reminder of > > what is possible, but a compassionate word of > encouragement from the > > gurudeva is the best medicine. If the gurudeva believes in you, > how > > can you possibly doubt yourself? As with everything else on the > path, > > the gurudeva is always your constant companion (though > usually out of > > sight), always ready to give you a little extra push when you > need > > it. Jai Gurudeva! > > > > Chris > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > shradda plus intelligence. the common error with this no > doubt is > > to > > > think of shradda as belief, which it is, in a way. but it is > more. > > > it is conviction, vision, discrimination, as well. > > > > > > here it is for me -- shradda is an inner core. this we can dwell > > > upon and it lights up. it is awareness itself. without shradda, > > > there is reacting to the things of the world, sort of like an > > arcade > > > game. shradda is pulling to a limitless center. > > > > > > it is also a friction, or a crowbar, or a lever, that works > against > > > the movement of the world. > > > > > > steve > > > > > > > > > , "rudran2" > <stechiekov> > > > wrote: > > > > Yes it certainly is interesting. If you think about it Shradda > > > more > > > > than anything else is probably what will really keep us > going in > > > our > > > > sadic efforts daily throughout the years and decades > ahead. > > > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > that's interesting. shradda. if you ask yourself, 'what is > > > faith' > > > > > you come up with an interesting sense of yourself/the > world. > > > > > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > > <lathananda> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Question from Latha : > > > > > > > > > > > > In your opinion, what is the single most important > quality > > > that a > > > > > > disciple needs to possess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Swamiji's response : > > > > > > > > > > > > Faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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