Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 hi latha! like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or egoic defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, limiting the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a complete standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is hammered in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru .... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill in one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop flitting around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to her attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not necessarily resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our ability to rise above. perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be limitless. ha! the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but that does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to 99%, but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there IS no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an absolute goal. i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no one else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, i just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally discovering working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that is seen by some to be only the beginning. as god wills! s , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, this > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we can > dig > > into. > > Steve, > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock when > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of the > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student and > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we will > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I willing to > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside me > or within me? > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and this > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > inspiration > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how should I > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > Jai Maa > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 Dear Steve, Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers and ask to be led in the right direction. Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark Night Mother' This is how it goes "Please take my hand my Lord And show me the way I dont know this path very well. I fully rely on you I trust you with all my heart Beyond you I know of no one else" And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we keep searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the solution in our cases is to 1) Keep praying 2) Selfless service 3) Sadhana and wait for Her grace. Jai Maa Latha , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > hi latha! > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or egoic > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, limiting > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a complete > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is hammered > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill in > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop flitting > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to her > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not necessarily > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our ability > to rise above. > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > limitless. ha! > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but that > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to 99%, > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there IS > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > absolute goal. > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no one > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, i > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally discovering > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > as god wills! > > s > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > this > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we can > > dig > > > into. > > > > Steve, > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock when > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of the > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student and > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we will > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I willing > to > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside me > > or within me? > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and this > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > inspiration > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how should > I > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > Jai Maa > > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 Thank you Lathaji for this clear post. I love that song of Maa's. Singing it with her, with the depth of her feeling, imprinted itself on me for life. I agree with you that we need to keep it simple like Maa says. Keep focused. Stay with the sadhana. Do seva in anyway we can whenever we can. Get rid of selfishness. "Endless intellectual speculation" must be a cousin of "wandering to and fro" and a general in the army of thoughts. I love what Brian said in his boon about wanting to stay in the place between thoughts. And... we always pray for Her Grace, Pure Devotion and Wisdom. Ardis "Latha Nanda" <lathananda > Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:41 -0000 Re: Hitting a bedrock Dear Steve, Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers and ask to be led in the right direction. Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark Night Mother' This is how it goes "Please take my hand my Lord And show me the way I dont know this path very well. I fully rely on you I trust you with all my heart Beyond you I know of no one else" And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we keep searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the solution in our cases is to 1) Keep praying 2) Selfless service 3) Sadhana and wait for Her grace. Jai Maa Latha , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > hi latha! > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or egoic > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, limiting > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a complete > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is hammered > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill in > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop flitting > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to her > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not necessarily > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our ability > to rise above. > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > limitless. ha! > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but that > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to 99%, > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there IS > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > absolute goal. > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no one > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, i > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally discovering > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > as god wills! > > s > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > wrote: > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > this > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we can > > dig > > > into. > > > > Steve, > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock when > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of the > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student and > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we will > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I willing > to > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside me > > or within me? > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and this > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > inspiration > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how should > I > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > Jai Maa > > Latha Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 this sounds right latha ... i have not heard that cd [cool title] ... i appreciate seeing the words ... steve , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear Steve, > > Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers > and ask to be led in the right direction. > > Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark > Night Mother' > > This is how it goes > > "Please take my hand my Lord > And show me the way > I dont know this path very well. > I fully rely on you > I trust you with all my heart > Beyond you I know of no one else" > > And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the > Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we keep > searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The > minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the > solution in our cases is to > 1) Keep praying > 2) Selfless service > 3) Sadhana > and wait for Her grace. > > Jai Maa > Latha > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > hi latha! > > > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or > egoic > > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, > limiting > > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a > complete > > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is > hammered > > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, > > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill > in > > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop > flitting > > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to > her > > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical > > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not > necessarily > > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our > ability > > to rise above. > > > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > > limitless. ha! > > > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but > that > > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the > > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to > 99%, > > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there > IS > > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be > > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > > absolute goal. > > > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way > > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no > one > > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or > > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, > i > > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally > discovering > > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that > > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > > > as god wills! > > > > s > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > > this > > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we > can > > > dig > > > > into. > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock > when > > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of > the > > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student > and > > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we > will > > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I > willing > > to > > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside > me > > > or within me? > > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and > this > > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > > inspiration > > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how > should > > I > > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > > Jai Maa > > > Latha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 intellect as a diversion is not so good. but intellect as logic to support life in general, and spiritual life in particular, is good. wandering inside intellect is useless. making use of intellect moves one forward. i guess it is a matter of using it, than being used by it, or fascinated by it's creations. om shalom, s , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thank you Lathaji for this clear post. I love that song of Maa's. Singing > it with her, with the depth of her feeling, imprinted itself on me for > life. > > I agree with you that we need to keep it simple like Maa says. Keep > focused. Stay with the sadhana. Do seva in anyway we can whenever we can. > Get rid of selfishness. "Endless intellectual speculation" must be a cousin > of "wandering to and fro" and a general in the army of thoughts. I love > what Brian said in his boon about wanting to stay in the place between > thoughts. And... we always pray for Her Grace, Pure Devotion and Wisdom. > > Ardis > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:41 -0000 > > Re: Hitting a bedrock > > > Dear Steve, > > Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers > and ask to be led in the right direction. > > Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark > Night Mother' > > This is how it goes > > "Please take my hand my Lord > And show me the way > I dont know this path very well. > I fully rely on you > I trust you with all my heart > Beyond you I know of no one else" > > And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the > Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we keep > searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The > minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the > solution in our cases is to > 1) Keep praying > 2) Selfless service > 3) Sadhana > and wait for Her grace. > > Jai Maa > Latha > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > hi latha! > > > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or > egoic > > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, > limiting > > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a > complete > > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is > hammered > > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, > > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill > in > > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop > flitting > > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to > her > > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical > > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not > necessarily > > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our > ability > > to rise above. > > > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > > limitless. ha! > > > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but > that > > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the > > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to > 99%, > > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there > IS > > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be > > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > > absolute goal. > > > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way > > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no > one > > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or > > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, > i > > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally > discovering > > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that > > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > > > as god wills! > > > > s > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > > this > > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we > can > > > dig > > > > into. > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock > when > > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of > the > > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student > and > > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we > will > > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I > willing > > to > > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside > me > > > or within me? > > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and > this > > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > > inspiration > > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how > should > > I > > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > > Jai Maa > > > Latha > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 If you follow the teachings of Ramakrishna and of the Devi Mandir, Devotion is the best path for the Kali Yuga. They do not place strong emphasis on the use of intellect. "Steve Connor" <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> Thu, 27 May 2004 19:47:35 -0000 Re: Hitting a bedrock intellect as a diversion is not so good. but intellect as logic to support life in general, and spiritual life in particular, is good. wandering inside intellect is useless. making use of intellect moves one forward. i guess it is a matter of using it, than being used by it, or fascinated by it's creations. om shalom, s , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > Thank you Lathaji for this clear post. I love that song of Maa's. Singing > it with her, with the depth of her feeling, imprinted itself on me for > life. > > I agree with you that we need to keep it simple like Maa says. Keep > focused. Stay with the sadhana. Do seva in anyway we can whenever we can. > Get rid of selfishness. "Endless intellectual speculation" must be a cousin > of "wandering to and fro" and a general in the army of thoughts. I love > what Brian said in his boon about wanting to stay in the place between > thoughts. And... we always pray for Her Grace, Pure Devotion and Wisdom. > > Ardis > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:41 -0000 > > Re: Hitting a bedrock > > > Dear Steve, > > Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers > and ask to be led in the right direction. > > Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark > Night Mother' > > This is how it goes > > "Please take my hand my Lord > And show me the way > I dont know this path very well. > I fully rely on you > I trust you with all my heart > Beyond you I know of no one else" > > And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the > Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we keep > searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The > minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the > solution in our cases is to > 1) Keep praying > 2) Selfless service > 3) Sadhana > and wait for Her grace. > > Jai Maa > Latha > > > > > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > hi latha! > > > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or > egoic > > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, > limiting > > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a > complete > > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is > hammered > > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own issues, > > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill > in > > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop > flitting > > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to > her > > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear biochemical > > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not > necessarily > > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our > ability > > to rise above. > > > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > > limitless. ha! > > > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but > that > > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always the > > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to > 99%, > > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there > IS > > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to be > > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > > absolute goal. > > > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the way > > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no > one > > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity or > > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that case, > i > > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally > discovering > > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but that > > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > > > as god wills! > > > > s > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > <lathananda> > > wrote: > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have to > > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > > this > > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we > can > > > dig > > > > into. > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock > when > > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of > the > > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student > and > > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we > will > > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My motto > > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I > willing > > to > > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside > me > > > or within me? > > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and > this > > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > > inspiration > > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how > should > > I > > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > > Jai Maa > > > Latha > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2004 Report Share Posted May 28, 2004 yes they don't place an emphasis on it, that is true. due to past experience, however, i use my own eyes, and evaluate everything, and everyone, on my own. this is not a matter of egotism [at this point anyway] it is just how i found discrimination works. also words, i try not to let them polarize. for me, intellect is not a bad thing, i don't associate it with a academia, or self-serving philosophizing. the intellect can be illuminated. the intellect can be used to plan a lengthy sadhana. the intellect can be used to grasp the advanced meanings of the chandi path. the intellect an be fused with the heart. mind itself is not a bad thing, it must be trained in service to the way. the ultimate devotion [speaking for myself, no one else] is not anti- intellectual. it serves jnana, then it turns out, jnana serves bhakti. very wonderful! and, this intellect is in a way, the creative capacity itself. ALL THIS IS MIND! truly, we are so often blinded by mind, we completely miss its overwhelming power of shaping existence itself. having a strong mind, the ability to grasp concepts and discriminate ... this is what i meant by intellect. not to worry! s , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> wrote: > If you follow the teachings of Ramakrishna and of the Devi Mandir, Devotion > is the best path for the Kali Yuga. They do not place strong emphasis on > the use of intellect. > > "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > Thu, 27 May 2004 19:47:35 -0000 > > Re: Hitting a bedrock > > > intellect as a diversion is not so good. but intellect as logic to > support life in general, and spiritual life in particular, is good. > wandering inside intellect is useless. making use of intellect moves > one forward. i guess it is a matter of using it, than being used by > it, or fascinated by it's creations. > > om shalom, > > s > > > > , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...> > wrote: > > Thank you Lathaji for this clear post. I love that song of > Maa's. Singing > > it with her, with the depth of her feeling, imprinted itself on > me for > > life. > > > > I agree with you that we need to keep it simple like Maa says. > Keep > > focused. Stay with the sadhana. Do seva in anyway we can > whenever we can. > > Get rid of selfishness. "Endless intellectual speculation" must be > a cousin > > of "wandering to and fro" and a general in the army of thoughts. > I love > > what Brian said in his boon about wanting to stay in the place > between > > thoughts. And... we always pray for Her Grace, Pure Devotion and > Wisdom. > > > > Ardis > > > > "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> > > > > Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:41 -0000 > > > > Re: Hitting a bedrock > > > > > > Dear Steve, > > > > Sometimes the only option is just to continue our heartfelt prayers > > and ask to be led in the right direction. > > > > Have you heard this song that Maa sings ? It is from the CD 'Dark > > Night Mother' > > > > This is how it goes > > > > "Please take my hand my Lord > > And show me the way > > I dont know this path very well. > > I fully rely on you > > I trust you with all my heart > > Beyond you I know of no one else" > > > > And it just struck me, from what you wrote - the parallel in the > > Chandi. It is in the Vedoktam Ratri Suktam. In the darkness, we > keep > > searching and spinning our wheels but never find the solution. The > > minute her sister Dawning Light comes, Darkness departs. Maybe the > > solution in our cases is to > > 1) Keep praying > > 2) Selfless service > > 3) Sadhana > > and wait for Her grace. > > > > Jai Maa > > Latha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > hi latha! > > > > > > like you say, the bedrocks vary from person to person, and the > > > bedrock can be a consequence of the process itself. in other > > > words, a bedrock might not only be the personal resistance or > > egoic > > > defense of an individual, but an actual impasse on the path ... > > > perhaps due to how the path is conceived ... > > > > > > here is an example ... the path could be conceived of, as, > > limiting > > > the creation of thought itself. this might be pursued very > > > aggressively, and exclusively ... to the "end!", even ... only to > > > discover, the mind balks at a certain point, or there is a > > complete > > > standstill, like coming to a dead end, like a nail that is > > hammered > > > in, and that's that. or, the mind comes to a standstill, there is > > > bliss, but there is STILL some sort of conflict at some level. > > > > > > or there could be a complex configuration involving the guru > > > ... perhaps the guru has his own limitations, the devotee > > > cannot go any further ... even if the devotee sees his own > issues, > > > the guru's can be even worse! once again, bedrock. > > > > > > in my own reading, i first came across ramana saying this [drill > > in > > > one place] ... he no doubt was trying to get people to stop > > flitting > > > around mentally and settle on self-inquiry. > > > > > > a physical issue can be a bedrock ... what if a devotee has a > > > condition that causes depression ... it appears to be linked to > > her > > > attitudes, and it is in part, but there are also clear > biochemical > > > aspects ... what then? a sort of a bedrock, that is not > > necessarily > > > resolved by doing more of the same action. death or a severe > > > physical calamity could also be a bedrock, if it exceeds our > > ability > > > to rise above. > > > > > > perhaps as long as there is a static objective, there will be a > > > bedrock of one kind or another. so, one's objectives should be > > > limitless. ha! > > > > > > the WORST reaction to a bedrock is, I QUIT SPIRITUAL LIFE. but > > that > > > does not mean, continuing to drill in the same place is always > the > > > correct response. what is called for is a combination of firm, > > > clearly grasped principals, and a flexible, creative, adaptable, > > > intelligence. i guess one could say, persistence might be up to > > 99%, > > > but it isn't likely to be 100% of the process. > > > > > > one of the most mind-boggling aspects of spiritual life is, there > > IS > > > no singular "answer" that covers every circumstance. this is to > be > > > expected, due to the relative nature of existence as we pursue an > > > absolute goal. > > > > > > i agree completely, that not quitting, and being creative ... for > > > example, finding how others solved the same problem ... is the > way > > > to go. strangely, i have often been in places where it seemed no > > one > > > else had the same problems, or i just didn't have the ingenuity > or > > > insight to resolve something, or find a parallel ... in that > case, > > i > > > just had to be wait, or endure, like it or not. finally > > discovering > > > working on the virtues has been the best answer so far, for basic > > > life issues, you know, being alive here as a human being. but > that > > > is seen by some to be only the beginning. > > > > > > as god wills! > > > > > > s > > > > > > > > > , "Latha Nanda" > > <lathananda> > > > wrote: > > > > , "Steve Connor" > > <sconnor@a...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > yes dig deep. sometimes you hit a certain bedrock. you have > to > > > > > decide, can you break throught that stone or not? forunately, > > > this > > > > > chandi patah is so rich is seems fertile with soft earth we > > can > > > > dig > > > > > into. > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > Your point is well taken. What do we do when we hit a bedrock > > when > > > > we are trying so hard to dig ? > > > > > > > > My thought is that the 'bedrocks' vary from level to level of > > the > > > > practitioner. They are like tests at each level of the student > > and > > > > get progressively difficult. But my humble feeling is that we > > will > > > > also be given greater capacity with greater challenges. My > motto > > > > is "God never throws at us more than we can handle" > > > > > > > > How do we overcome this problem ? Here are my thoughts > > > > 1) How is my ego reacting to this problem. Am I trying to hide > > > > behind my own justifications and avoid the issue, or am I > > willing > > > to > > > > surrender, but is it still a problem? ie is the problem outside > > me > > > > or within me? > > > > 2) How have other people handled this kind of situation - and > > this > > > > not necessarily our peers but people whom we look upto for > > > > inspiration > > > > 3) What is the objective solution of this problem ? Not how > > should > > > I > > > > handle this, but what is the best thing that can happen ? > > > > > > > > I would be interested to know of others input as well. > > > > Thanks for raising such interesting questions. > > > > Jai Maa > > > > Latha > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > / > > > > > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > Sponsor > > > > > Links > > / > > > > <? subject=Un> > > Terms of Service > <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.